Sisters in Law – Episode 250: "Everything Is Stupid"

Date: August 23, 2025
Hosts: Kimberly Atkins Stohr, Joyce Vance, Barb McQuaid, Jill Wine-Banks
Podcast: Politicon's #SistersInLaw

Episode Overview

This episode, titled "Everything Is Stupid," brings together the full #SistersInLaw panel for the first time in weeks. The hosts dissect urgent topics including the mid-decade redistricting wars, a controversial DOJ search targeting Trump-critic John Bolton, and the latest appellate decision in the New York civil fraud case against Donald Trump. With their characteristic blend of insight, humor, and dismay at the state of American law and politics, the Sisters probe not just what’s happening—but why, what it means, and whether there’s any hope for sanity. The conversation also touches on the role of DOJ, ethical government, and the slow-burning impacts of political "arms races" in both law and governance.

Main Topics & Analysis

1. Back to School: The Joy of Shopping & Giving Back

[02:54–07:12]

• Hosts share nostalgic stories about the joy of back-to-school shopping, transitioning into how they use that energy now as professionals.

  • Barb: A self-admitted "back to school geek," fond of office supplies and choosing the perfect color notebook each academic year.
  • Jill: Remembers her “giant box of Crayolas,” but mostly loved clothes shopping, including pink suede loafers and vintage finds.
  • Joyce: Reflects on her mother, a preschool teacher, who spent her own money on classroom supplies. Now, Joyce contributes by "clearing the list" for teachers needing supplies—which she urges others to do:

    “Maybe it scratches the shopping itch a little bit.” (Joyce Vance, [07:09])

• Notable Moment:

  • Kimberly reveals she still owns an elementary school notebook with Barry Sanders on it—unused and “pristine.”
  • The hosts connect this nostalgia to the importance of supporting teachers struggling with underfunded classrooms.

2. The Redistricting Arms Race: Texas vs. California

[10:32–22:29]

Texas GOP’s Power Play

• Jill outlines Texas’ highly partisan mid-decade redistricting:
  • “Ever since the Supreme Court said political gerrymandering is okay, this was inevitable.” (Jill Wine-Banks, [12:03])
  • Massive racial disparities in representation are highlighted:
    • 445,000 white Texans vs. 1.4 million Latinos or 2 million Black voters per representative.
  • Texas Democrats’ walkout:

    “They did make the nation aware…a very good way.” (Jill Wine-Banks, [15:31])

  • Texas Rep. Nicole Collier's refusal to sign a "permission slip" for surveillance is discussed as a brave (if symbolic) act of resistance.

California’s Tit-for-Tat Response

• Barb discusses California's plan to counter Texas through a ballot initiative:
  • Expresses discomfort with the “arms race.”

    “Fighting fire with fire just makes everything burn.” (Barb McQuaid, [18:46])

  • But notes the process gives power to voters, not politicians.
  • Eric Holder's support: Democrats’ approach is a shield, not a sword.

Legal Battles & Political Theater

• Kimberly points out the inevitable legal challenges:
  • “Republicans…have already filed suit to block the California redistricting for me…” ([22:29])
  • California’s process, being voter-driven, offers a democratic countermeasure—at least in the short term.

Political Fallout: Newsom & Mockery Politics

• Gavin Newsom is described as both effective in “trolling” Trump (“Today we will make the maps great again!” [24:19]) and polarizing—even among the panel.
  • Kimberly: “I'm not a fan of politics by Twitter account.” ([24:43])
  • Barb: “I think leaders should be grown ups, and I think mocking…brings all of the discourse down…” ([28:11])
  • Jill: Initially “revolted,” but now acknowledges the effectiveness of fighting fire with fire.
  • There’s consensus that while the tactics are unfortunate, the issues are existential enough to justify extraordinary measures.
  • Barb, unwavering:

    “I like my leaders to be serious people and I don't like the…cheap shots.” ([30:10])

3. Department of Justice Under Trump: Retribution & Rule of Law

[34:18–55:44]

3.1. DOJ Executes Search Warrant on John Bolton

[34:18–44:51]

• Kimberly calls it “petty and retaliatory,” a clear case of Trump’s projection and retribution:

  “It looks like not only despotism… but petty.” (Kimberly Atkins, [35:15])

  • The procedure starkly contrasts Trump’s Mar-a-Lago search—there, DOJ followed protocol and discretion; with Bolton, news was leaked, creating spectacle.

• Barb raises legal barriers: Statute of limitations ("five years for most federal offenses") but possession is a continuing offense.

  • Points to DOJ’s lost “presumption of regularity.”

• Joyce clarifies legal standards:

  • Judges are “more lenient” on stale probable cause with documents, but bypassing requests for voluntary return of documents could harm the government’s case.

• Jill, connecting history:

  “You ask before you subpoena the president… or the former security advisor.” ([44:51])

3.2. Parallels & Protests: Authoritarian Playbook

• Panel notes the “classic disinformation” technique: accuse others of politicization, then do so yourself.
• The risk: Lasting institutional damage to DOJ's credibility, regardless of future court or congressional action.

3.3. Politicized U.S. Attorney Appointments

[55:39–59:14]

• Barb and Joyce break down the importance of confirming U.S. Attorneys: Only personal loyalty to Trump matters to the administration.

• New tactics for avoiding Senate confirmation: Appointing non-career, non-confirmed “acting” or “interim” U.S. Attorneys beyond the statutory timeframes.

• Alina Habba saga: Ruled by a judge to have been exercising authority “without legal authority”; everything she touched in NJ U.S. Attorney’s office for weeks could be void.

• Kimberly:

  “The office is paralyzed until there is a valid U.S. attorney in place…this is affecting thousands of criminal and civil cases.” ([57:02])

• Jill sees this as a serious constitutional test of executive power and Senate oversight.

4. New York Civil Fraud Appeal: Partial Win for Trump, But No Exoneration

[63:54–75:33]

Background & Trial

• Jill recaps New York AG Letitia James’ lawsuit—Trump, his children, and the Trump Organization found liable (non-jury trial) for inflating property values.
• Judge banned Trump from doing business in NY and ordered nearly $500 million in disgorgement.

Appellate Ruling Breakdown

• Joyce: Court upheld the fraud verdict but vacated the financial penalty as an “excessive fine” per the Eighth Amendment; penalty is to be recalculated.

  • “Trump is liable for civil fraud. Then we're not going to make him pay this much money.” ([67:29])

• Kim: Court did not find the case politically motivated, despite one judge's dissent.

• Barb: Cautions that politics in prosecution remains dangerous, encourages restraint in officials’ public comments.

• Jill: Calls media headlines about “exoneration” misleading:

  “Trump is still guilty of financial fraud. The headline should have read Trump fraud conviction upheld. He's barred from doing business in New York.” ([70:15])

  • Notes Tish James is now also being targeted by DOJ in a possible retribution move.

Next Steps

• Joyce & panel explain the “Yankee nonsense” of NY’s court hierarchy—expect appeals from both sides and a prolonged appellate fight.
• Kimberly doubts the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the case, given its civil posture and lack of broad constitutional issues.

5. Listener Q&A

[78:23–87:05]

Trump 2028?

• Barb addresses whether Trump could run again post-2028, dissecting 22nd Amendment ambiguities and VP "plan B's"—concludes it would be a dangerous constitutional gray area.

  • “If he wins an election, he can't serve, so he should not be on the ballot as the president…But…it could…probably is, is legally permissible [to serve by succession].” ([80:58])

Legal Jargon: "Line Prosecutor"

• Joyce: Confirms that’s the hands-on prosecutor who “investigates, indicts, prosecutes, including taking the case to trial.” ([82:33])

“Frivolous Lawsuits”

• Jill breaks down Rule 11, financial and professional sanctions, and what makes an action frivolous:

  • “There has to be some fact that you can prove that supports what you're saying or some law that supports what you're saying. You can't just make stuff up.” ([83:52])

Notable Quotes

• Jill Wine-Banks: "Ever since the Supreme Court said political gerrymandering is okay, this was inevitable." [12:03]
• Barb McQuaid: “Fighting fire with fire just makes everything burn. … an eye for an eye leaves both eyes blind.” [18:46]
• Joyce Vance: "Trump is liable for civil fraud. Then we're not going to make him pay this much money." [67:29]
• Kimberly Atkins: "It looks like not only despotism… but petty." [35:15]
• Jill Wine-Banks: "Trump is still guilty of financial fraud. The headline should have read Trump fraud conviction upheld." [70:15]
• Barb McQuaid: “I like my leaders to be serious people and I don't like the…cheap shots.” [30:10]
• Kimberly Atkins: “Everything is so stupid.” [87:50]
• Joyce Vance: “I have to say I'm sort of a fan of the approach they've taken. … They have used it, in essence, as a shield and not as a sword.” [20:29]

Episode Summary & Conclusion

“Everything Is Stupid” captures not just the frustrations of the #SistersInLaw panel, but a moment in American civic life where rules, ethics, and norms are routinely bent if not broken for political gain. The episode is rich with legal insight, historical context, and impassioned debate about “fighting fire with fire,” the integrity of justice institutions, and the line between effective resistance and contributing to a downward spiral. The Trump/Bolton controversy, the subversion of DOJ appointment norms, and the partial appellate win for Trump in New York are explored with a mix of exasperation and expertise, always returning to a fundamental question: How can the foundations of democracy and justice withstand so much self-interested chicanery?

The panel closes with practical advice for engaged citizens—support teachers, understand your government, and prepare for the next legal curveball. The refrain, “Everything is so stupid,” is not just a lament, but a call to vigilance, seriousness, and hope that someone, somewhere, will still stand up for what’s right.

End of summary.