#SistersInLaw – Episode 252: The Rules Of Calvin Ball

Date: September 6, 2025
Podcast Host: Politicon
Panelists: Jill Wine-Banks, Barb McQuaid, Kimberly Atkins Stohr (Joyce Vance absent)

Episode Overview

This episode is a wide-ranging, sharp, and often humorous examination of the latest political and legal challenges facing the United States, with particular focus on recent Trump administration defeats in court, a draconian Texas "bounty hunting" abortion law, and efforts to seize control of independent government institutions like the Federal Reserve. The hosts analyze victories and losses for the rule of law, the increasing use of emergency powers, the weaponization of the DOJ, and the growing sense that under Trump, legal norms are as malleable as the “rules of Calvin Ball”—in other words, made up as the game goes along.

Highlights, Insights & Notable Moments

1. Favorite Fall Sightseeing Tips (00:10–09:38)

• Detroit/Ann Arbor (Barb):
  • Motown Museum, where docents “grew up in the neighborhood and knew all these people like Diana Ross was my next door neighbor…” (02:00, Barb)
  • Ann Arbor’s “Big House” (largest football stadium), Great Lakes beaches in the fall.
• Washington, D.C. (Kimberly):
  • Night monument tour (“when the monuments are lit up … it is absolutely stunning…”) (03:08, Kimberly)
  • National Guardsmen presence: “Groups…in their unnatural habitat on many street corners…” (03:05, Kimberly)
• Chicago (Jill):
  • Chicago Architecture Foundation boat tour, shared beaches of Lake Michigan, Women's Veterans Museum in Arlington.

2. Trump’s String of Legal Losses – “Wins for the Rule of Law” (09:49–37:32)

A. Military Deployment to LA Unlawful (09:49–17:46)

• Decision by Judge Charles Breyer holding Trump’s deployment of the military to LA was unlawful.
• Key Quote: “In the absence of a true rebellion, then we’re left with ordinary law, including the Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibits the military from engaging in ordinary law enforcement activity…” (13:41, Barb)
• Factual findings likely to withstand appellate scrutiny.

B. D.C. National Guard Occupation Case (14:38–17:46)

• D.C.’s unique status could impact outcome; Congress’ overreach discussed.
• Underlying theme: aggressive use of federal power and emergency declarations.

C. Harvard University Funding Withholding Overturned (17:46–20:36)

• Judge blocks Trump administration from slashing $2 billion from Harvard.
• Key Quote: “…the administration said…because Harvard has failed to address antisemitism on campus… also they claim that Harvard discriminates against men and white people. That really is the argument. I’m not kidding.” (18:39, Kim)
• Ruling protects academic freedom, rebuffs overreach.

D. Trump Tariffs Declared Unlawful (20:36–24:19)

• Federal Circuit affirms tariffs exceeded powers under IEEPA.
• Key Quote: “How about it, textualists? How can he possibly be using IEEPA to impose these tariffs? And this court said you can’t.” (22:24, Barb)
• Consequences: future/concurrent appeals and possible tax credits for affected companies.

E. Immigration Rulings – Temporary Protected Status (24:19–28:40)

• Ninth Circuit blocks termination of protected status for 600,000 Venezuelans.
• Emergency action routine: lower courts regularly side with law, but SCOTUS “keeps popping in…saying, ‘let them do it until the case is finally decided…’” (26:54, Kim)
• “Pyrrhic victories”—wins with little immediate impact due to Supreme Court shadow docket.

F. Children’s Deportation Attempt Stopped (29:34–34:26)

• Judge Sparkle Sukhnanan issues 2 a.m. order halting deportation of unaccompanied minors.
• Notable Quote: “I do know that they get a hearing before they go like all other immigrants. You don’t lose the right to a hearing just because you’re underage.” (31:51, Barb)
• Criticism of cruelty and chaos of process.

G. Alien Enemy Act Misuse Rejected (34:26–37:32)

• Fifth Circuit (conservative) limits Trump admin’s use of 1978 wartime law to deport alleged Venezuelan gang members.
• “This has been one of the most overused and misused laws from the Trump administration under this fake claim of emergency so far.” (36:22, Kim)

3. Texas’ Bounty-Hunting Abortion Law 2.0 (39:55–49:52)

• Texas advances new law targeting providers/pharmacies shipping abortion medication via mail—seeks to set precedent for other red states.
• Key Quote: “This…could end up being an effective end run around the rights of everyone—not just in red states, but around the rights of me in a blue state.” (45:06, Jill)
• Concerns over enforceability, jurisdiction, and legal chaos.
• Memorable Exchange:
  • Kim: “Make it make sense, Barb.”
  • Barb: “Well, that would be impossible, Kim. Yeah, because it makes no sense.” (46:15)

4. Dobbs, Amy Coney Barrett, & The Constitution (49:52–53:41)

• SCOTUS Justice Barrett defends Dobbs decision on book tour, claiming it returns abortion “to the voters.”
• Panel’s consensus: constitutional rights aren’t subject to popular vote; states rights do not “trump” constitutional rights.
• Key Quote:
  • Barb: “You can’t take away a constitutional right so that the people get to vote on it.” (53:29)

5. DOJ Weaponization & The Federal Reserve Fight (55:33–73:25)

A. DOJ Investigation of Lisa Cook, Federal Reserve Governor (55:33–61:08)

• Unusual public disclosure of DOJ probe; right-wing operative Ed Martin (“Stop the Steal”) leads "mortgage fraud" investigations.
• Panel: clear pattern of targeted, retaliatory justice.
• Key Quote: “It is just wrong. We do not say, ‘show me the person and go and find something on them.’ We have to have predication.” (68:01, Jill)

B. Weaponization, “Calvin Ball” & Board Removals (67:13–70:08)

• “This is like what Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson called Calvin Ball. Right? The rules of Calvin Ball is there are no rules. But the other rule is, Trump always wins.” (69:20, Barb)
• Cook’s legal challenge to removal from board—outcome depends on SCOTUS emergency orders.

6. Listener Questions – Defense Department Name & International Law (73:25–80:59)

• Q1: Can Trump rename Department of Defense the Department of War?
  • No, only Congress can do so, but Trump could use the name symbolically.
  • “It is really ramping up this idea of aggression, which I think is a very dangerous place…” (75:46, Barb)
• Q2: Could Trump (or the U.S.) be prosecuted for human rights crimes internationally?
  • No avenue exists as U.S. is not part of relevant courts—“We gotta rely on the American voters to do that.” (78:19, Kim)
• Q3: Was blowing up a suspected drug boat in international waters a war crime?
  • Likely violates human rights/international law, evidence scant.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Trump’s court losses:
  • “You referred to all of these court decisions this week as losses for Trump. I prefer to see them as wins for the rule of law.” (12:07, Barb)
• On Texas abortion law:
  • “If you think abortions are against your religion, don’t have one. But for everybody else, get out of the way.” (47:38, Barb)
• Satirical note on Supreme Court Justices’ book deals:
  • “Maybe to really find out what they’re thinking, you just have to wait for them to write their blockbuster books and pay, you know, $39.99…” (51:01, Barb)
• On DOJ targeting opponents:
  • “Give me the name and I will find something on him. … Isn’t it ironic because wasn’t predication a big issue in the Russiagate investigation where Trump’s saying…one rule when you’re the target, another rule when you’re targeting, and it’s wrong.” (67:13–69:19, Jill)

Section Timestamps

• 00:10 – 09:38: Fall sightseeing tips from Detroit, D.C., and Chicago
• 09:49 – 37:32: Trump’s legal setbacks, immigration rulings, Harvard, tariffs
• 39:55 – 49:52: Texas’s new abortion “bounty hunting” law and legal implications
• 49:52 – 53:41: Amy Coney Barrett’s defense of Dobbs and the nature of constitutional rights
• 55:33 – 73:25: DOJ’s criminal probe of Federal Reserve Governor, weaponization, “Calvin Ball” rules
• 73:25 – 80:59: Listener questions (renaming DoD, international courts, “drug boat” incident)
• 81:37 – End: Closing camaraderie and reflections

Tone & Style

The tone is candid, humorous, and deeply informed, mixing insider knowledge with relatable analogies and a clear sense of urgency about threats to American democracy. Banter between the hosts provides levity, even as they tackle daunting legal topics. The episode’s title, “The Rules Of Calvin Ball,” aptly captures a recurring theme: the chaos and improvisational nature of contemporary political and legal maneuvering in the Trump era.

For New Listeners

This episode is a compelling and thorough update on the legal landscape as it relates to Trump’s ongoing legal challenges, rule of law, abortion access, immigration, and the independence of federal institutions. The hosts skillfully dissect convoluted issues, making them accessible and often entertaining—while never downplaying the gravity of the threats discussed. Perfect for anyone needing a digestible, intelligent, and occasionally hilarious breakdown of the week’s legal headlines.