Sisters In Law, Ep. 255: "National Lampoon’s Watergate"

Podcast Date: September 27, 2025
Hosts: Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, Barb McQuade, Kimberly Atkins Stohr

Episode Overview

In this episode, the #SistersInLaw team—Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, Barb McQuade, and Kimberly Atkins Stohr—untangle a packed week of legal and political bombshells, focusing on the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey, President Trump’s executive orders targeting antifa, and a developing cash-for-contracts scandal involving Trump’s border czar, Tom Homan. The conversation is insightful, humorous, and laced with the hosts' signature candor and camaraderie.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. End-of-the-World Icebreakers (00:10–03:30)

• The hosts kick off with a lighthearted discussion: What would they do if they knew the world was ending?
  • Kim: Eat Alaskan king crab legs and listen to Prince’s "1999".
  • Barb: Chill on the couch with her blanket and ice cream.
  • Joyce: Rescue all the stray dogs and cats, hang out with them for the end.
  • Jill: Cuddle with loved ones and be glad to avoid more Trump news.

2. Dissecting the Indictment of James Comey (06:27–33:57)

• The Indictment’s Weaknesses (06:27–14:13):

  • Jill: "This is the thinnest indictment I've seen in years. It's barely two pages..." (06:27)
  • The indictment is signed only by Lindsey Halligan, a brand new, politically-appointed U.S. Attorney, after her predecessor reportedly refused to bring the case.
  • The charges: Alleged false statements to the Senate (regarding FBI sources) and obstruction of a congressional investigation. Both basically hinge on a difference in recollection between Comey and Andrew McCabe.
  • Notably, “Person 1” referenced in the indictment is Hillary Clinton (09:43), tying the matter back to the perennial "Russiagate" debates.

• Legal Elements and Odds of Conviction (10:06–21:03):

  • False statement cases require the prosecution to prove not just that a statement was false, but knowingly false and material.
  • Obstruction charges require “corrupt” intent to impede an investigation.
  • Kim: Critiques the bare-bones nature of the indictment and speculates about the inexperience of Halligan (13:16).
  • Only 14 of 23 grand jurors reportedly voted to indict—a weak endorsement (19:54), raising questions over prosecutorial standards.

• The Role of the Grand Jury and Political Influence (14:13–33:57):

  • Joyce: Emphasizes the seriousness with which grand jurors take their duties, debunking conspiracy theories about the "deep state" (16:20).
  • The sisters highlight the thin evidence and the risk that neither Comey nor McCabe testified before the grand jury (17:41).
  • Inspector General’s report suggested McCabe was less credible, not Comey.
  • Kim: Argues the prosecution is political, designed for spectacle and headlines more than conviction: "This is not about a false statement. You can find a hundred falser statements made in Congress..." (27:03).
  • Barb recalls how, during the Obama administration, DOJ and the White House maintained a firewall—unlike the direct interference in the current administration (28:08).
  • Joyce shares a story about Obama telling U.S. Attorneys: "You don’t serve me. You serve the American People. And I expect you to be independent..." (29:40).
  • Discussion on selective and vindictive prosecution as legal defenses—rare, but potentially fitting in this context (31:04).

  Notable Quote:

  • Kim: “It gives him something to feed the base of supporters, which have been for a decade, chanting things like, lock her up. And this is exactly what he wanted.” (25:26)

3. Trump’s Executive Orders Targeting Antifa & “Organized Political Violence” (40:44–54:59)

• Defining Antifa—Or Not (41:32–42:50):

  • Antifa is a concept, not an organization; you can’t "join" Antifa any more than you can join an idea.
  • Joyce and Barb: The legal framework distinguishes between foreign terror groups and domestic organizations precisely to avoid abuse (43:49).
  • Attempting to designate Antifa as a domestic terrorist organization has no legal grounding and is a dangerous political maneuver.

• Case Examples and Rhetoric (44:44–47:46):

  • No evidence of broad, organized left-wing violence in recent high-profile acts (e.g., Charlie Kirk and ICE facility shootings). Both appear to be the work of lone actors, but Trump exploits the tragedies for political gain (46:14).
  • Joyce: "The right is now using this rhetoric of they and them... dangerously close to rhetoric used in Nazi Germany…" (47:46).
  • Administration officials' claims of “hidden evidence” are seen as classic fearmongering.

• Statistical Reality vs. Political Narrative (50:39–53:29):

  • Jill: Stats show 75–80% of politically motivated violence comes from the right (50:39).
  • Executive orders are used to create the illusion of criminality where there’s no legal basis, amounting to Congressional overreach.
  • Kim’s Boston Globe column addresses the risk: "Now...just slap the word antifa on something and suddenly that gives the federal government the authority to bring the full force down on someone based on this claim that they're a threat to America." (53:29)

  Memorable Exchange:

  • Barb: “You could no more designate Antifa as a terrorist organization than you could any other concept like feminism...” (42:24)
  • Jill: "We are all antifa." (79:06)

4. The Tom Homan “Cava Bag” Bribery Scandal (58:21–68:01)

• Allegations (58:43–60:38):

  • Tom Homan, Trump's “border czar,” was allegedly caught in an FBI sting where he accepted a $50,000 bag of cash in exchange for promises of future contracts should Trump be re-elected.
  • Jill draws parallels to her Watergate investigations: "Tom Holman is like National Lampoon's version of Watergate." (60:38)
  • The case evaporated when Trump returned to office and DOJ killed the investigation. Jill blasts the decision to wait for a "serious crime" (actual bribery as an official): "Why did they not arrest him the minute he took that bag of cash and accepted the money..." (60:43)

• Charges and Prosecutorial Decisions (61:44–64:32):

  • Barb: Taking the cash as a "potential public official" in exchange for future acts should have sparked serious bribery or conspiracy charges.
  • But with Homan not formally in office, the timing for certain statutes wasn't perfect (62:37).

• Big-Picture Takeaways (64:32–68:01):

  • The sisters see a clear pattern: The administration targets perceived enemies (Comey) while shielding allies (Homan), weaponizing the DOJ.
  • Jill: "This is the actual weaponization of the Department of Justice, the actual weaponization of all the levers of government." (66:16)
  • Barb offers hope: Tyrants often overreach and are eventually unmasked, suggesting this pattern could be Trump’s undoing (67:05).
  • Joyce: Recounts her book title: "Giving Up Is Unforgivable—A Manual for Keeping a Democracy." (68:01)

  Notable Quote:

  • Kim: "Not only is this administration going after Donald Trump's perceived enemies... but it's going to protect people that are around Donald Trump, even if those people are committing crimes." (65:09)

5. Listener Q&A (72:41–78:20)

• Dangers of branding Venezuelan “boat attacks” as wartime actions—potential for stigma against Venezuelans in the U.S. (73:14)
• Defining a "class" in class action lawsuits (75:06)
• Where to buy "resistance” pins: Jill advocates flea markets, Etsy, and even a paperclip as a nod to WWII resistance. (76:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jill: “[The indictment of James Comey] gives new meaning to the ‘trumped-up charges’ term; it endangers the rule of law.” (06:27)
• Kim: “This is not about a false statement... This is about something else, and it’s unjust and it’s vengeful, and it’s wrong.” (27:03)
• Joyce: “Obama said, and this is... my saved tweet: ‘You don’t serve me. You serve the American People. And I expect you to be independent...’” (29:40)
• Barb: "You could no more designate Antifa as a terrorist organization than you could any other concept like feminism." (42:24)
• Jill: "We are all antifa." (79:06)
• Kim: "Fear is the tool of tyrants." (66:09)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:10–03:30 – Hosts’ "end of the world" plans (icebreaker)
• 06:27–33:57 – Analysis of the indictment of James Comey and the politicization of DOJ
• 40:44–54:59 – Trump’s executive orders on antifa and the manipulation of “domestic terror” language
• 58:43–68:01 – Tom Homan bribery sting, DOJ’s double standards, and historical echoes of Watergate
• 72:41–78:20 – Listener questions (immigration stigma, class actions, and resistance pins)

Tone & Style

The discussion mixes sharp legal analysis with wry humor and pointed criticism of the current administration. The hosts balance gravitas with personal anecdotes, history lessons, and moments of levity—particularly when grappling with the sheer absurdity of recent headlines. The tone is urgent yet encouraging, closing with reminders of democratic resilience and the inevitability of accountability.

For Those Who Missed It

This episode offers a blistering, in-depth breakdown of the Comey indictment’s legal and ethical potholes, exposes the dangers of manipulating anti-terror statutes for political gain, and finds Watergate parallels in today’s scandals. Above all, the #SistersInLaw deliver context, hope, and a reality check: now, more than ever, democracy requires vigilance, integrity, and, sometimes, a really good blanket.