Podcast Summary: #SistersInLaw – "The Earl Of Sandwich" (Ep. 261, Nov 8, 2025)

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This episode of #SistersInLaw, hosted by Politicon and featuring Barb McQuaid, Joyce Vance, and Jill Wine-Banks (Kimberly Atkins Stohr is away), dives into contemporary issues at the intersection of politics and law. The main discussions revolve around the acquittal of the DC "sandwich thrower," the escalating ICE operations and judicial resistance in Chicago, and the controversial prosecution of James Comey. The tone is witty, incisive, and occasionally irreverent, with the hosts using humor and deep legal expertise to unpack headline-grabbing developments.

Episode Highlights and Key Discussion Points

[00:12] – Book Updates & Community

• Barb McQuaid’s Book News: Barb discusses her upcoming book "The Fix," focusing on the current administration's mob-like governance and solutions to restore democracy. ("The Fix is in. But I also spend most of the book offering solutions...how we can improve...so we can lead and restore our democracy..." – Barb [00:44])
• Joyce Vance’s Book Tour: Joyce finds inspiration from podcast fans encountered nationwide and highlights the community's appreciation for the podcast’s balanced tone and humor.
• Jill Wine-Banks's Second Book: Jill is undeterred by early rejections and draws inspiration from the perseverance of authors like J.K. Rowling ([02:44]).

[04:28] – Government Shutdown: Local & National Impact

• Impact on Travel & Workers: Joyce and Barb express concern and empathy for federal workers not getting paid, referencing food drives and church efforts supporting those in need ([05:34]; [06:12]).
  • “I’m just super worried about all the people, government employees and otherwise, who are feeling the hardship from the shutdown.” – Joyce [04:28]
• ICE Still Operating: Jill elaborates on the irony that, despite the shutdown, ICE’s aggressive operations persist, leading to community mobilization to support immigrants ([06:42]).

[09:22] – The "Sandwich Thrower" Case, DC

Laughter and Puns Set the Tone

• Case Overview: The hosts recap the viral incident: Sean Dunn threw a fully wrapped Subway sandwich at a Customs and Border Protection agent in DC, resulting in a high-profile but ultimately unsuccessful prosecution.
  • “The government tried to get the juror to bite, but they didn’t.” – Joyce [10:56]
  • “Assault with a deli weapon.” – Jill [11:32]
• Backstory & Escalation: Jill details the dynamics in DC, including protests, National Guard presence, and the “Reuben Missile Crisis” jokes ([13:58]).

[14:45] – Prosecutorial Overreach

• Failed Indictment: Joyce and Barb dissect how the U.S. Attorney’s push for a felony was first rejected by the grand jury, leading to a downgraded misdemeanor that still failed to meet the statutory threshold.
  • “A forcible assault with a sandwich, hard to think of that that way...What kind of injury would a sandwich have possibly caused...?” – Jill [17:02]
  • Courtroom laughter erupted over the claim that the sandwich "exploded" ([19:01]).
• Prosecutorial Discretion: Joyce critiques U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro for wasting resources and mishandling discretion (“Not everything somebody does that we think of as misbehavior is a federal crime.” – Joyce [20:25]), suggesting options like pretrial diversion instead.

[22:32] – Ethics, Protest, and Priorities

• The hosts emphasize the need for better protest behavior but also recognize the pressure and fear created by government overreach and ICE tactics. Civil disobedience, civil suits, and community-driven action are discussed over criminal prosecution.

[33:06] – Escalation of ICE Operations in Chicago

[32:25] – Militarization & Community Backlash

• Outrageous ICE Tactics: Jill describes Chicago's streets being patrolled by camouflaged officers, with peaceful protesters and religious leaders facing violence:
  • “It looks like what I think Germany must have looked like in 1935, 1939 for sure. People grabbed off the street, detained and disappeared, even those with documents...” – Jill [32:25].
• Judicial Pushback:
  • Judge Sarah Ellis issues a TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) barring violence against protesters, requiring warnings before deploying force ([35:31]).
  • The 7th Circuit limits the judge's direct oversight but allows the core injunction to stand ([38:07]).

[41:31] – Accountability and Lying Under Oath

• Police Misconduct: Barb explains how videos exposed Commander Greg Bovino, who commanded ICE/CBP forces in Chicago, lying under oath about pepper spray deployments and excessive force ([41:31]).
  • “...the idea that a judge has found that the commander of this CBP effort in Chicago is lying under oath should disturb all of us.” – Barb [43:49]

[44:26] – Inhumane Detention

• Detention Center Conditions: Judge Gettleman orders improvements at the Broadview Detention Center after hearing testimonies of filth, overcrowding, and coercion.
  • “People shouldn’t be sleeping next to overflowing toilets...on concrete floors.” – Judge Gettleman, paraphrased by Joyce [44:26].

[46:28] – Presidential Power and Resistance

• Barb details the legal nuance between the "Insurrection Act" and 10 U.S.C. §12406 as it relates to presidential powers over National Guard deployment, emphasizing the judiciary’s crucial review role.
  • “He can’t just make it up...there’s room for judicial review...” – Barb [46:28]

[48:48] – Consent Decree Violations

• Joyce discusses the extension of a longstanding consent decree after ICE was found to be conducting warrantless arrests in violation, leading to the release of several detainees ([48:48]).

[50:27] – By the Numbers

• An estimated "more than 2,000" arrests and over 1,000 deportations are reported in Chicago’s ICE sweeps, raising concerns about loss of prioritization for violent offenders versus peaceful workers and families ([50:27]).

[54:30] – Comey Prosecution: Legal and Ethical Breakdown

[57:34] – Indictment’s Flimsy Foundation

• New information reveals the perverse logic of the indictment, where even the factual basis (“who” authorized leaks) is muddled. Barb apologizes to Joyce for misattribution ([57:34]).
• Joyce raises the legal defects in the case: vagueness, lack of specific false statements, and dubious prosecution motives.

[60:48] – Selective & Vindictive Prosecution

• The hosts analyze the high bar for proving prosecutorial misconduct (vindictiveness/selection), noting the extraordinary evidence of Trump’s direct involvement ("indict Jim Comey" social media post) ([65:28]).
• Barb is skeptical that Comey will legally prevail on these motions, while Joyce is cautiously optimistic given the egregious executive interference.

[67:31] – Grand Jury Testimony & Process

• The judge’s order to swiftly turn over grand jury minutes and the prosecutor’s explanations is seen as a reflection of judicial skepticism toward the whole prosecution ([67:31]).

[77:30] – Listener Questions

• Is enforcement of Congressional false statement laws arbitrary? Joyce: No, but it depends on prosecutorial discretion, which can be problematic when political motives come into play ([78:30]).
• Hatch Act Violations: Barb: It is illegal for White House staff to use official channels for political messaging (e.g., blaming Democrats for the shutdown), but enforcement is weak post-Trump ([80:22]).
• What happened to the East Wing’s art/furnishings? Jill: No one really knows — everything may have been demolished under secrecy ([82:15]).

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “The government tried to get the juror to bite, but they didn’t.” – Joyce [10:56]
• “Assault with a deli weapon.” – Jill [11:32]
• “Not everything somebody does that we think of as misbehavior is a federal crime.” – Joyce [20:25]
• “He can’t just make it up...there’s room for judicial review...” – Barb [46:28]
• On the sandwich case: "This case was full of baloney...Justice was served with chips, a cookie and a medium drink. That’s a wrap. The officer was taken to the Mayo Clinic.” – Barb [84:22]
• “It looks like what I think Germany must have looked like in 1935, 1939 for sure. People grabbed off the street, detained and disappeared, even those with documents.” – Jill [32:25]
• “Everything about this case is unusual.” – Jill (re: Comey prosecution) [60:48]

Segment Timestamps

• Book updates, podcast community: [00:12]–[04:28]
• Government shutdown: [04:28]–[07:39]
• Sandwich thrower case: [09:22]–[26:10]
• ICE, Chicago, and courts: [32:25]–[54:30]
• Comey prosecution: [54:30]–[73:43]
• Listener questions: [77:30]–[82:15]
• Pun round-up: [84:04]

Closing Thoughts

In their signature style, the hosts blend substantive legal analysis with humor and empathy. The episode shines at unpacking the absurdities and dangers of contemporary governance, prosecutorial discretion, and the erosion of norms under political pressure. Whether dissecting the seriousness behind a "deli weapon" charge or the grave risks of unchecked federal enforcement, #SistersInLaw helps listeners understand not just the law, but the stakes for democracy itself.