Sisters In Law Podcast Ep. 269: "Testimony"
Date: January 3, 2026
Panel: Joyce Vance, Jill Wine-Banks, Barb McQuade
Host: Politicon
Episode Overview
This episode brings together legal experts Barb McQuade, Joyce Vance, and Jill Wine-Banks (Kimberly Atkins Stohr will return next week) for a robust conversation on the latest in law and politics. The main topics:
- The public release of Special Counsel Jack Smith's congressional testimony
- The Minnesota daycare fraud scandal and its political fallout
- Chief Justice Roberts’ year-end Supreme Court report and the Court’s upcoming 2026 agenda
The panel also discusses New Year’s "in and out" trends, political engagement, and answers listener questions on presidential immunity, vindictive prosecutions, and First Amendment issues.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. New Year’s Trends: What’s In and What’s Out? ([00:00]-[09:12])
- Pop culture: The hosts riff on the Washington Post’s annual “Ins and Outs” list.
- Joyce: Hopes for Supreme Court ethics reform — “What I really think should be out of vogue this year is justices who make us worry about their ethics. I hope this is the year the Supreme Court will finally adopt a binding ethics code.” [01:53]
- Jill: Wishes misinformation and lies “out,” facts “in” – “I want facts to matter again … what’s in is everybody taking part in the November elections. It's only 11 months away, and it is up to all of us to save our democracy." [03:08], [05:28]
- Barb: Wants cryptocurrency “out” due to lack of regulation, predicts political engagement and ‘70s bell bottoms "in." [03:43], [08:09]
- Quotable moment:
“This is the year that the Supreme Court will finally adopt a binding ethics code, even though we see no movement in that direction right now.” — Joyce Vance [01:53]
2. Jack Smith’s Testimony Before Congress ([10:53]-[32:15])
The Testimony’s Release
- Jack Smith, former special counsel on the Trump cases, testified for eight hours behind closed doors—GOP kept it private.
- On New Year's Eve, testimony was released, revealing clear, persuasive, and nonpartisan language by Smith.
- Barb: GOP went “behind closed doors because they were afraid of what would happen … he schooled them.” [13:25]
- Judge Aileen Cannon has stalled release of Smith’s Florida documents report, facing appellate pressure to act. [15:27-16:30]
Substance of Smith's Testimony
- Smith asserted he had “proof beyond a reasonable doubt” in both the Mar-a-Lago and January 6th cases.
- "Prosecutors only bring cases when they believe the evidence is sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction." — Barb [20:46]
- Smith emphasized case built on testimony from Republicans close to Trump.
- Joyce: “The evidence that I felt was most powerful was the evidence that came from people in his own party who put country before party and were willing to tell the truth to him, even though it could mean trouble for them.” [22:24]
- Key evidence:
- Trump’s Jan 6 tweet attacking Pence, which "exacerbated the danger" to Pence’s life [23:15]
- Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony about Trump demanding to go to the Capitol; Smith clarified evidence, handled hearsay issues professionally [24:42]
Republican Spin & Smith's Neutrality
- GOP tried to paint Smith’s investigation as political; Smith insisted investigations were fact-based, not partisan.
- “I didn’t pick them. Donald Trump picked them.” – Smith, when questioned about targeting Senators [28:40]
- Joyce praised Smith’s “articles of faith” as a prosecutor, emphasizing process and reliance on Republican witnesses. [30:04]
- The panel agreed the testimony should be widely read to restore confidence in DOJ integrity.
Notable Quotes:
- "[Smith] was a ramrod straight career prosecutor … answering the questions, defending his people, defending his case, and they got nothing. Nothing. They got bubkus out of Jack Smith.” — Joyce Vance [17:31]
- “He says several times, this was not partisan, this was not political. I would have chosen not to indict if I didn't find the evidence.” — Barb [18:44]
3. Minnesota Daycare Fraud Scandal & Ethnic Targeting ([34:22]-[47:40])
The Fraud
- 86 people (78 Somali-Americans) indicted for daycare/autism center and food program fraud in Minnesota.
- Joyce: “This is just the sort of classic government programs fraud case … unfortunately, there are always people willing to line their own pockets at the expense of people who really need to use taxpayer money to help them after a crisis.” [36:01]
Political Reaction & Racist Rhetoric
- Trump used the scandal to broadly attack Minnesota’s Somali community (84,000+ people).
- Jill: “Trump reiterating his disgusting racism. …You can't blame a whole group of people for the acts of any one or even 80 of those people. It is not fair.” [37:52]
- Federal response: SBA froze 6,900 loans, HHS froze all child care payments to Minnesota—collective punishment.
- Joyce: “This is absolutely unique to the Trump administration … they're punishing the entire state for criminal conduct committed by a couple of people.” [40:58]
- Trump motivated by political revenge, targeting blue-state Minnesota and its Democratic governor. [40:58]
Social Media Influence & Misinformation
- 23-year-old influencer Nick Shirley’s viral videos fueled crackdowns—unsubstantiated, amateurish, embraced by GOP.
- Jill: "When you hear something like [‘fraud worse than anywhere else ever in history’], you know it isn’t real." [45:00]
- Barb: "The idea of blaming an entire community is just... wrong, it's bigoted, it's stereotypical, and it is politically divisive." [47:40]
4. Chief Justice Roberts’ Year-End Supreme Court Report ([51:31]-[65:51])
Substance & Critique
- Roberts' 2025 report focused on the Founding Fathers and legacy, barely addressing the judiciary’s modern struggles.
- Jill: “[This] is a report of the 1700s and the origins of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. It’s looking back and ignoring the consequences of their recent decisions…” [52:09]
- Roberts subtly referenced the importance of judicial independence and rejected "impeachment as a response for disfavored opinions," but panelists found his pushback weak and buried.
- Barb: “He kind of buries it in this long, kind of tedious … history … otherwise was like, ain't our country great? You're kind of missing the big picture here, fella.” [53:04]
- Joyce: “The [Samuel] Chase impeachment … was political animus. … unless you knew all of that history, this point could be lost on you.” [54:35]
The Coming Supreme Court Term
- Major concerns for 2026 term:
- Presidential powers (ability to fire federal officials, expansion of executive power)
- Jill: Worried about Trump’s efforts to remake government, threaten democracy. [60:12]
- Immigration cases (birthright citizenship, racial profiling)
- Barb: Alarmed about use of executive orders and profiling, concerned about precedent. [61:38]
- Voting rights/gerrymandering: Watch "Calais" from Louisiana—decision could doom representation for minorities nationwide.
- Joyce: “This is not just a Louisiana problem … districts across the country will be written out of existence depending on how the court decides Calais … The real question is whether we're going to be able to hold free and fair elections.” [64:01]
- Presidential powers (ability to fire federal officials, expansion of executive power)
5. Listener Q&A Highlights ([65:51]-[75:01])
- On Supreme Court immunity and Nixon:
Jill: Under a Trump-styled conservative court, Nixon might have escaped criminal liability—“if there had been a Fox News, if there had been social media, and if this was the Supreme Court, I think that our case would have come out very differently.” [66:32] - On prosecution of January 6 prosecutors:
Joyce: Career prosecutors have little recourse against Trump’s vendettas, reliant on voters to restore guardrails. [68:30] - On government Christian messaging at Christmas:
Barb: “The establishment clause … prohibits favoring any one religion over another. … Maybe that’s the goal of this administration—to get someone to take the bait and say, ‘See, those people at the ACLU are anti-Christian.’” [69:58]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Jack Smith was just a ramrod straight career prosecutor … and they got bubkus out of Jack Smith.” – Joyce [17:31]
- “It would be like blaming any group, as Trump did, for example, with the Afghan citizens in America … You can't blame a whole group of people for the acts of any one...” — Jill [37:52]
- “He said, I didn't pick them. Donald Trump picked them…” — interpreting Smith on whom he subpoenaed [28:40]
- “Unless you knew all the history, [Chief Justice Roberts' point] could be lost on you.” — Joyce [54:35]
- “If [Trump] can just remake the government and bring in his own supporters, then we have lost democracy.” — Jill [61:36]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- New Year’s "Ins and Outs"
[00:00] – [09:12] - Jack Smith testimony deep-dive
[10:53] – [32:15] - Minnesota fraud & targeting Somali community
[34:22] – [47:40] - Roberts’ Supreme Court report & preview of term
[51:31] – [65:51] - Listener Q&A
[65:51] – [75:01]
Tone & Takeaways:
The #SistersInLaw team delivers sharp, informed, and occasionally wry analysis—grounding their legal commentary in experience, evidence, and a persistent call for public vigilance and political engagement. Unafraid to call out abuses of power—whether in the justice system, on social media, or in national politics—the hosts urge listeners to remain informed and active as “saving democracy” will, in their words, not be up to the courts or administration alone, but to the people themselves.
Resource Links:
- Jack Smith’s full testimony ([Show Notes])
- Video of Jack Smith’s hearing ([Show Notes])
- Chief Justice Roberts’ annual report ([Show Notes])
Next episode: Kim returns; more legal trends and listener questions.