285: Behind The Curtains (At Mar-A-Lago)

Summary

Podcast Summary: #SistersInLaw – Episode 285: Behind The Curtains (At Mar-A-Lago)

Date: March 11, 2026
Hosts: Kimberly Atkins Stohr (C), Jill Wine-Banks (A)
Podcast Theme:
A lively, listener Q&A episode in Politicon’s “#SistersInLaw” series, with legal veterans Kimberly Atkins Stohr and Jill Wine-Banks delving into the week’s biggest legal and constitutional questions on executive authority, voting rights, Supreme Court reform, and more, while sharing their characteristic wit, candor, and personal anecdotes.

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Overview

The episode focuses on listener-submitted questions about the limits of judicial power, voting rights (specifically poll taxes), the dangers of lax security at Mar-a-Lago, possibilities of Supreme Court reform, the nature of gubernatorial pardons, Sixth Amendment rights, and the application of the Bill of Rights to minors. The hosts combine deep legal expertise with accessible explanations and their trademark humorous rapport.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Contempt Powers of Judges & Migrant Detentions (01:11–03:08)

• Question: Can judges halt mass immigrant arrests violating court orders?
• Kimberly’s Analysis:
  • “Would it be nice if we could just get a blanket order that the administration has to stop taking the actions, such as mass arrests of immigrants who have not committed a felony, but they can’t do that for a couple of reasons.” (02:08, C)
  • There isn’t a statute allowing such broad judicial action at the preliminary level.
  • The Supreme Court recently limited nationwide injunctions, making it near impossible for judges to broadly halt executive actions like this unless in “very, very exceptional situations.”
  • Bottom Line: The judiciary’s hands are mostly tied here.

2. SAVE Act, Voter ID, and Poll Taxes (03:08–05:34)

• Question: Does requiring proof of citizenship to vote constitute a poll tax?
• Kimberly’s View:
  • “Can that be considered a poll tax? It costs you time and money to get it. I am of the opinion that it is a poll tax...” (03:44, C)
  • Poll taxes disproportionately impact marginalized communities and can be a de facto means of disenfranchisement.
  • However, the Supreme Court has so far gutted much of the Voting Rights Act, so legal remedies are limited.
  • Quote: “So while in theory I think you’re right, Rachelle, in law, I don’t think it is at all.” (05:23, C)

3. Mar-a-Lago Security Vulnerabilities (05:34–06:48)

• Listener Asks: Could foreign intelligence be intercepting everything in Mar-a-Lago’s non-secure “war room”?
• Fun Exchange:
  • Jill & Kimberly in unison: “Yes.” (05:44, C & A)
  • “I think it’s quite likely. It looked to me from the pictures like you could see in and that there was a curtain. A curtain. This wasn’t a wall...” (05:47, A)
  • The hosts recount stories of officials building private SCIFs and joke about “phone booth” pins, but stress how insecure Mar-a-Lago is for sensitive discussions.
  • Concern: “This is a public place. This is not even his private residence.” (06:41, A)
  • Memorable: “People were like breezing in and out through that curtain. You could see people going in and out.” (06:42, C)

4. Supreme Court Structural Reform Prospects (10:24–12:06)

• Listener From Chicago: Will a future President and Congress make needed SCOTUS reforms?
• Jill’s Realism:
  • “There certainly has been a lot of talk.... Those are all good ideas, but unfortunately I don’t think any of us, even the most prescient of fortune tellers, can predict with confidence that a future President and Congress will do what might be needed...” (11:00, A)
  • Ideas like age limits, expanding membership, term limits, or rotating appointments are discussed, but prospects remain uncertain.

5. Gubernatorial Pardons (12:06–13:34)

• Listener Asks: Can Governors pardon state crimes?
• Kimberly:
  • “Yes, they absolutely can... it depends on the state constitution, but I think by and large governors have very, very broad... pardon powers...” (12:10, C)
  • Exception: In Georgia, pardons are decided by a panel, not the governor.

6. Dershowitz, Epstein Files, and the Sixth Amendment (13:34–14:40)

• Question: Does mention in the Epstein files infringe Alan Dershowitz’s Sixth Amendment rights?
• Jill’s Legal Take:
  • “It guarantees fundamental protections for individuals accused of crimes in federal prosecutions.” (13:45, A)
  • Dershowitz, not indicted or on trial, cannot claim Sixth Amendment protections here.
  • Kimberly’s humor: “I need protection from the imprint of that information into my brain.” (14:40, C)

7. Minors and the Bill of Rights (14:44–17:39)

• Listener Asks: Do minors have the full Bill of Rights?
• Kimberly’s Explanation:
  • Minors possess constitutional rights, but “greater restrictions” can be justified for their protection and public welfare using balancing tests.
  • Some rights (e.g., Second Amendment) can be lawfully limited for those under certain ages.
  • Critique of recent Supreme Court rulings that strip rights from trans students.
  • Quote: “I wrote this week about a shadow docket ruling by the Supreme Court that basically stripped trans students of their privacy rights...” (16:20, C)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Would it be nice if we could just get a blanket order that the administration has to stop... mass arrests of immigrants who have not committed a felony, but they can't do that.” (02:08, C)
• “I think it’s quite likely [Mar-a-Lago conversations are intercepted]. It looked to me from the pictures like you could see in and that there was a curtain. A curtain. This wasn’t a wall.” (05:47, A)
• “People were like breezing in and out through that curtain. You could see people going in and out.” (06:42, C)
• “I need protection from the imprint of that information into my brain.” – on the Dershowitz/Epstein news (14:40, C)
• “I may even base my outfit on Dominique Devereaux. What you think, Jill? I’mma come. You know, I’m going to come with a big old hat and some fake diamonds.” (17:32, C)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Judicial Power & Immigration: 01:11–03:08
• Voter ID / Poll Tax: 03:08–05:34
• Mar-a-Lago Security: 05:34–06:48
• (ads)
• Supreme Court Reform: 10:24–12:06
• Gubernatorial Pardons: 12:06–13:34
• Dershowitz & Sixth Amendment: 13:34–14:40
• Minors’ Rights: 14:44–17:39

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Tone and Style

• Accessible, witty, and grounded in expertise
• Serious constitutional analysis interspersed with relatable anecdotes and playful banter.
• Moments of humor (“I need protection from the imprint of that information into my brain.”; Mar-a-Lago curtain jokes) lighten the dense legal topics.

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Conclusion

Episode 285 of #SistersInLaw provides an engaging, informative window into contemporary legal questions, handled with the hosts’ unique blend of sharp analysis, storytelling, and humor. From the real vulnerabilities at Mar-a-Lago to the ticking clock on Supreme Court reform, the episode is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand current political-legal issues in plain, impactful terms.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to this episode of Sisters sidebar with Kimberly Atkins Storr and me, Jill Wine Banks. If you have a question for us, please email [e-mail] or tag us on social media using Sisters in Law. But don't just type them. Your voices are so important, which is why we want to hear them. So do us by a voice note. That's how we will hear your voice and we'll play your voice on the show. Email us voicemail memo using one of your notes apps and we might play it on the show. Before we get started, we are delighted to share that we will be doing a live show in Denver, Colorado at the Cervantes Masterpiece. Yeah. On April 23rd. Please join us. We look forward to seeing each and every one of you. Tickets are [e-mail] tour we can't wait to see you there. But let's get started with your questions. And Kim, I want you to answer this question from Mary.

[B]

In Maine, the Trump administration is violating so many court orders in its sort of catch me if you can approach to illegally detaining immigrants and they clog the system. What is the scope of the judge's contempt power? Would it be possible for a judge to order that they must stop arresting immigrants who have not committed a felony until they comply with all the court orders?

[C]

Mary, that's a really good question. Would it be nice if we could just get a blanket order that the administration has to stop taking the actions, such as mass arrests of immigrants who have not committed a felony, but they can't do that for a couple of reasons. I don't think that there is a statute that provides that broad of action, even at the preliminary stages. So I just don't think that there is a law that prefaces complying with all court orders with the ability to continue enforcement in that way. If there were, then maybe that's something that could be asked for, but they're not. But I think even more fundamentally, the Supreme Court this term issued an opinion. It was a shadow docket order and it was based on the birthright citizenship case, but it wasn't answering the birthright citizenship question. The question that presented is whether judges can issue nationwide injunctions stopping a Trump policy. And the Supreme Court said pretty clearly, unless it is a very, very exceptional situation, no, they cannot do that. So that really has hamstrung the ability of judges to even issue injunctions in cases their power to do so would otherwise be clear. So the Supreme Court certainly is not gonna back up a Judge doing that in a case like this where the request doesn't seem to be grounded in any current law that we have. So good idea, but that's not the way it's going to work.

[A]

Kim, Our next question comes from Rochelle in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. And it has your name on it. Does the SAVE Act ID requirement violate the law that voters cannot be subject to a poll tax in order to.

[C]

That is a great question. So the SAVE act is not with us. It's not. Luckily we don't have to find this out in real time because the SAVE act did not have the support to pass. But yes, this ID requirement requiring proof of citizenship, which requires you to go and secure the kind of documents you need, particularly if you've been married or something else and you have to get some other document that proves that, or if you or someone like the story I've told about my dad needed to get a passport and he didn't have a birth certificate. And you're going through all of this in order to get the piece of ID you need. Can that be considered a poll tax? It costs you time and money to get it. I am of the opinion that it is a poll tax on top of just something that is onerous enough that may prevent some people from exercising their constitutional right to vote. And it is also targeted mostly to communities of color and other places that other folks who were purposely trying to be disenfranchised. Here's the problem though, Rachelle. While the 15th amendment of the Constitution was a Reconstruction era amendment that specifically was supposed to protect the right of black people to vote as people who as citizens, knowing the history of our nation and the efforts that would be made to stop them, even though we also passed the Voting Rights act in the 60s which codified and gave the ability to enforce that promise in the 15th Amendment. The Supreme Court has all but gutted the Voting Rights Act. And with the pending case on the Louisiana redistricting, I think the ability even to bring a challenge claiming that such a claim is a unconstitutional poll tax or otherwise discriminatory won't be possible. So while in theory I think you're right, Rachelle, in law, I don't think it is at all. Our next question comes from Crockerboy from Twitter. Is it possible that everything happening in the non secure war room at Mar a Lago is being intercepted by foreign intelligence? I'll let you answer this, Jill. Although I think I can answer it

[A]

in one one word, I think let's say it simultaneously. 1, 2, 3. Yes.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Wait that wasn't simultaneous. 1, 2, 3.

[C]

Yes. I'm in a different time zone, Jill.

[A]

Yes. Anyway. Yes, yes. Crocker boy. I think it's quite likely. It looked to me from the pictures like you could see in and that there was a curtain. A curtain. This wasn't a wall. I mean, I remember back in Trump one when Secretary of the EPA Pruitt spent $43,000 to build a SCIF in his office. He built a phone booth because he didn't want to walk down, down the hall and be inconvenienced by having to go to a actual SCIF to have confidential, classified conversations. So he had this $43,000 thing built in his office, which led to one of my favorite all time pins of a phone booth. So, yeah, this is a serious danger. This is a public place. This is not even his private residence.

[C]

And people were like breezing in and out through that curtain. You could see people going in and out.

[A]

So foreign intelligence just Russia knows everything, China knows everything. Exactly. For sure. So I think this is a really bad idea. And I can't believe that someone hasn't stopped him and said, you're going to have to go to a skiff, sir. Spring is here, so the last thing you want is visible rashes or cuts in your leg from having a bad shave. If you have a rusted old razor or one of the cheap flimsy ones that you get at the store, add in the pink tax driving up prices for us and it can be hard to find your perfect shave. That's why we're so glad we found Flamingo. They understand that your self care routine should be a soothing ritual, not a chore. And their razors reflect that across the board. As soon as we tried one, we were amazed at how smooth the shave was from the first stroke to the last. It's a dance, not a battle. And the feeling lasts for days. Best of all, your skin stays flawless thanks to high quality materials that give the blades stability and precision.

[C]

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[A]

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[C]

Our next question comes from Maureen in Chicago. Jill, your hometown.

[A]

Yes, and I love answering questions from Chicagoans. Hi favorite podcasters, this is Maureen calling from Chicago to ask your confidence level about a future President and Congress making the structural reforms on the Supreme Court that are necessary. This is a good one, but it's not a clearly defined legal answer because the problem is that you cannot predict what a future President and Congress will do. There certainly has been a lot of talk about structural reforms to the Supreme Court and why we need those structural reforms, whether it be imposing a term limit on people or an age limit on mandatory retirement, or whether it's increasing the number of members of the court or doing a rotation so that every president gets to appoint the same number of Justices so that we have a fair representation based on the President. Those are all good ideas, but unfortunately I don't think any of us, even the most prescient of fortune tellers, can predict with confidence that a future President and Congress will do what might be needed to make the Supreme Court more responsive to the current situation. Next question. Kim is from Brenda can governors pardon people convicted of state level crimes?

[C]

Well Brenda, yes, they absolutely can. Now, it depends on the actual language of the state constitution, but I think by and large governors have very, very broad just as the president on the federal level has very, very broad pardon powers that are GR to him or her by the state's constitution. And again, I say this every time we talk about pardons. Clemency power is immensely important in effectuating criminal justice and social justice. So it is a power that can be used for great good to rectify wrongful convictions or to give mercy on someone who has paid significant dues or other things like that. But generally speaking, it's up to the discretion of the governor. So, yeah, that's the power that governors have. Now, there's one exception is Georgia, which the pardon power does not lie in the governor. It has there is a panel that is in place that decides pardons in that state. But beyond that, usually that is a governor's power. Next is Helen from New York City, New York. Alan Dershowitz has claimed that the Epstein files released is infringing on his Sixth Amendment rights in light of accusations that he received a massage. That's just the image I didn't want. What is the Sixth Amendment and is he correct?

[A]

Jill, I love this question. I want to start by reading you the Sixth Amendment, which was ratified in 1791. So I think that law professor Alan Dershowitz probably knows what it says. It was part of the Bill of Rights and it guarantees fundamental protections for individuals accused of crimes in federal prosecutions. Let me re emphasize that accused of crimes in federal prosecutions, it ensures the right to a speedy, public and impartial trial by jury in the district where the crime occurred, the right to counsel and the ability to confront and compel witnesses. As far as I know, Alan Dershowitz is named in the Epstein files, but he has not been indicted. He is not on trial. And so the Sixth Amendment has nothing to do with his rights. He may or may not have had a massage. Looks like maybe he did. But the Sixth Amendment does not protect the release of the information about him.

[C]

I need protection from the imprint of that information into my brain.

[A]

Kim, the last question we have time for today, and we had so many good ones that I'm sorry, we don't have unlimited time. Thank you all for having sent in great questions. Here's one from Rick in Las Vegas. The Bill of Rights doesn't appear to fully apply to minors. What is the deciding factor in what does and doesn't apply and when? I love this question because I didn't even know that. So, Kim, please enlighten us.

[C]

Yes, this is a great question. So in fact, minors do have rights under the Bill of rights, the same rights that apply to all Americans, the right to free speech, the right to due process, all of that stuff applies to minors as well as adults. The only difference is there are greater restrictions on those general rights when it comes to minors than when it's done for adults. Because when these rights come into play, what courts have to do is a balancing test about the interest of the minor compared to some other important interests, such as the interest of the state to educate that child, the interests of parents to make decisions about the welfare of that child, the interest of the state in keeping that child and other people safe. For example, with laws that say you cannot possess a firearm unless you're 18 years old or 17 or whatever the law is, yes, that's infringing the minor Second Amendment rights, but that the balance of interest weighs in favor of that restriction. So, yes, they do have rights. But in these balancing tests, often those rights are restricted by courts based on an interest that is balanced with them. Now, sometimes I don't think the courts always get it right. I wrote this week about a shadow docket ruling by the Supreme Court that basically stripped trans students of their privacy rights without even doing a balancing test about the competing interests, just waving those away and giving parents a blanket right to control their child's sexual identity, essentially which I thought was wrongly decided. So I should say the balancing of interest is what's supposed to happen, but it doesn't always. Well, thank you for listening. The Sister sidebar with Jill Winebags and me, Kimberly Atkins Storr. Keep sending in those questions. They're so good. And if you want to send a voice memo, do that and you could get your question played on the next episode. And we hope to see you live in Denver, Colorado at the Cervantes masterpiece on April 23rd. I'm so excited to go to the whole home of the Colby's and the Carringtons. I may even like, I may even base my outfit on Dominique Devereaux. What you think, Joe? I'mma come. You know, I'm going to come with a big old hat and some fake diamonds.

[A]

How about some big shoulders? That's what I remember.

[C]

I'm a shoulder pad girl. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. So make sure you get your tickets before they sell out because you are not going to want to miss my outfit. Follow Sisters in Law and hashtag Sisters in Law. Wherever are you, you return. And wherever you listen and do return to us week after week and give us a five star review. It really helps other people find the show and show some love for our sponsor this week, Flamingo. The link is in the show notes and please support Flamingo because they help us do what we do. Don't forget to pick up Sisters in Law Merch and other [e-mail] merchant and see you every week on Wednesdays and on Saturdays for Sisters in Law and Sister. Sidebar

[A]

I will tell you that when we moved to Florida for the year, I got rid of a lot of files because we were renting the house out. And guess what? I got rid of my Watergate files. My Watergate files because, well, what would they ever be useful for? Oh my God, I am. I could kill myself. But anyway, yeah, that's rough. So I want some to help me make better choices than getting rid of the Watergate files that libraries would like to own.

[C]

Yes, they would.

[D]

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[C]

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[D]

And hey, a good playlist doesn't hurt either.