girls gone wild 2024 (a hawk tuah bonus)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) – Episode: "girls gone wild 2024 (a hawk tuah bonus)"

Release Date: January 23, 2025
Host: Jamie Loftus
Produced by: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the "girls gone wild 2024 (a hawk tuah bonus)" episode of Sixteenth Minute (of Fame), host Jamie Loftus embarks on a deep dive into the legacy of the controversial "Girls Gone Wild" franchise and its enduring impact on contemporary internet culture. Combining investigative reporting with personal interviews, Jamie unpacks the complex dynamics of consent, exploitation, and the blurred lines between fame and notoriety in the digital age.

The Legacy of Girls Gone Wild

Jamie opens the episode by drawing a stark comparison between the "Girls Gone Wild" tapes of the late 1990s and early 2000s and modern surveillance-style TikTok content. She shares her visceral reaction upon realizing the similarities:

“My nipples hardened in fear. Not the fun way I knew what these surveillance TikTok channels reminded me of. Girls Gone Wild.”
—Jamie Loftus (07:12)

Jamie recounts how Joe Francis, the mastermind behind "Girls Gone Wild," capitalized on the vulnerability of young women, often exploiting their drunkenness and lack of consent to create salacious content. She highlights the absence of regulatory oversight during the VHS era, which allowed such exploitative practices to flourish unchecked.

Comparing Past Exploitation to Modern Content

Jamie critically examines the similarities between "Girls Gone Wild" and current content creators like Hayley Welch, also known as the Hawktua girl. She points out that while today's creators might adhere to platform guidelines—such as keeping participants clothed— the underlying exploitation remains disturbingly comparable.

“OnlyFans is like the next level of Girls Gone Wild... while it offers more agency to the creators, exploitation still persists in different forms.”
—Jamie Loftus (36:11)

She discusses how the shift to digital platforms has transformed the landscape, providing both opportunities for empowerment and avenues for continued exploitation. The monetization models have evolved, but the core issues of consent and agency remain critical.

In-Depth Interview with Courtney Kochak

A pivotal segment of the episode features an interview with Courtney Kochak, a former employee of "Girls Gone Wild." Courtney shares her harrowing experiences and offers an insider perspective on the franchise's operations.

“Do you want to travel for Girls Gone Wild? Like, do you want to go on the tour? You want to be the merch girl?”
—Courtney Kochak (19:20)

Courtney elaborates on the recruitment process, highlighting how the company targeted naive women from small towns, exploiting their financial desperation and lack of awareness. She reveals the manipulative tactics used to secure consent, often from intoxicated individuals, and the emotional and psychological toll it took on those involved.

“When you’re blackout drunk and you sign a consent form, what does that piece of paper mean?”
—Jamie Loftus (24:19)

The conversation delves into the ethical void surrounding consent, emphasizing that written agreements held little weight when participants were not in a clear state of mind. Courtney reflects on the absence of proper support and the long-term impacts on the women involved.

Consent, Exploitation, and Ethical Implications

Jamie and Courtney engage in a profound discussion about the nature of consent within exploitative environments. They explore the power dynamics at play and the systemic failures that allowed such practices to thrive.

“They had already gotten in trouble for this at this point. I think the age thing, you know, it was pretty specific.”
—Jamie Loftus (23:39)

Jamie questions the validity of consent obtained under duress or intoxication, questioning whether true autonomy was ever present for those featured in the tapes.

“It should be illegal to ask someone to sign that document.”
—Jamie Loftus (24:19)

Impact on Contemporary Media and Culture

The episode transitions to examining how "Girls Gone Wild" has left an indelible mark on modern media. Jamie discusses the normalization of hypersexualization and the algorithmic promotion of young, often white, women in similar exploitative content.

“The algorithm always boosts young white women. The hypersexualization of ordinary women was well established.”
—Jamie Loftus (26:58)

She acknowledges positive developments, such as platforms like OnlyFans that offer women more control and financial benefits, yet she remains cautious about the pervasive nature of exploitation.

“The OnlyFans thing is an evolution in a positive way for sure. And so I do just want to acknowledge like the positive moves.”
—Jamie Loftus (36:11)

However, Jamie underscores that despite advancements, the cultural and systemic issues surrounding exploitation and consent have not been fully resolved.

Conclusion and Future Directions

As the episode wraps up, Jamie reflects on her ongoing investigation into Hayley Welch’s entanglement in a crypto scam, hinting at the cyclical nature of exploitation and public manipulation.

“There are so many repeating patterns inside this story, both in the ways that Haley is framed, the decisions she makes, and the way the public reacts to her.”
—Jamie Loftus (37:58)

Jamie teases the next episode, promising to further explore the complexities of Hayley Welch’s narrative and its broader implications on internet fame and personal agency.

“Stay with me here. There are so many repeating patterns inside this story...”
—Jamie Loftus (37:58)

Notable Quotes

• “Girls Gone Wild would get paid in T-shirts, petty cash, or hats.”
  —Jamie Loftus (07:12)

• “What does that piece of paper mean if you're blackout drunk when you sign it?”
  —Jamie Loftus (24:19)

• “OnlyFans is like the next level of Girls Gone Wild.”
  —Jamie Loftus (36:11)

Key Insights and Takeaways

1. Historical Exploitation: "Girls Gone Wild" exploited vulnerable women, often without genuine consent, setting a precedent for similar exploitative practices in media.

2. Modern Parallels: Contemporary content creators draw unsettling similarities to past exploitative models, despite changes in format and distribution.

3. Consent and Ethics: The episode highlights the critical need for genuine consent and ethical practices in media production, especially when dealing with vulnerable populations.

4. Evolution of Platforms: While platforms like OnlyFans offer more control to creators, they also introduce new challenges in ensuring ethical standards and preventing exploitation.

5. Cultural Impact: The normalization of hypersexualization through algorithms and media perpetuates harmful stereotypes and continues to marginalize vulnerable groups.

6. Personal Narratives: Personal accounts like Courtney Kochak’s provide invaluable insights into the emotional and psychological impacts of exploitation in media.

Conclusion

In this compelling episode of Sixteenth Minute (of Fame), Jamie Loftus meticulously unpacks the dark legacy of "Girls Gone Wild," drawing incisive connections to present-day internet culture. Through poignant interviews and critical analysis, the episode serves as a sobering reminder of the ongoing struggles surrounding consent and exploitation in the pursuit of fame. Jamie's insightful storytelling not only sheds light on past injustices but also calls for introspection and reform in how content is created and consumed in the digital era.

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Transcript

[Jamie Loftus]

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[Courtney Kochak]

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[Jamie Loftus]

Call Zone Media.

[Unknown]

All.

[Jamie Loftus]

Welcome back to 16th Minute, the podcast where we take a look at the Internet's characters of the day to see how Their moment affected them and what that says about us and the Internet. I'm your host Jamie Loftus, and today we are continuing to talk about Hayley Welch, the hawk to a girl. Well, kind of. When we left off, we were talking about the style of content that launched Hailey to prominence, in her case, a channel called TimNDTV that posted clips across TikTok, YouTube and Instagram. And when I saw the formula that made their videos popular, it felt kind of familiar to me. Quickly edited footage of drunk women saying dirty silly shit outside of bars while the men who ran the show with basically no charisma egged them on. To say more, it reminded me of something, but I couldn't quite put my finger on what this was a couple weeks ago. And then one day as I was walking through an outdoor mall to cure my depression, I heard the distant sound of a steel drum. And then it came to me. My nipples hardened in fear. Not the fun way I knew what these surveillance TikTok channels reminded me of. Girls Gone Wild. Yes, the Girls Gone Wild home video craze of the 90s and 2000s. Videos of young attractive women usually drunk and of even more dubious consent than the TikTok experts. Exploitation videos we see now. The tapes were pioneered by a bag of shit reality pioneer by the name of Joe Francis who occasionally appeared on the tapes, goading normal women into flashing their boobs to the tune of millions of dollars. They were unbelievably popular. But these tapes legacies weren't examined in detail until recently by an amazing journalist I have a strong parasocial relationship with named Scotchy Cole that began streaming on Peacock in December 2024. And this docuseries isn't just a damning profile of Joe Francis, who by the way, is a fugitive living in a Mexican villa. After a series of lawsuits that include child abuse for filming and profiting from the exposed breasts of underage girls, racketeering, false imprisonment of women in his home. The list gets worse and worse. The docuseries is a look into how the girls and women who appeared in Girls Gone Wild were treated in the moment and after their appearance was made public. This series was surveillance and exploitation at its finest. Only this wasn't the proto reality hidden camera surveillance. The appeal of Girls Gone Wild was how normal these girls were, how vulnerable they seemed and how as they were flashing you, they were looking right into the camera. And because these were distributed by ordering VHS tapes over the phone, they weren't regulated like normal TV would be and weren't beholden to Internet terms of service. And apparently at the time no one really cared about the level of consent that the women who appeared in the tapes had provided them. And don't even get me started on the Hurricane Katrina fundraising tape from Girls Gone Wild featuring old clips from exploited women in New Orleans hosted by Snoop Dogg A real sentence warning this video.

[Unknown]

Contains explicit material not suitable for children. If you think Girls Gone Wild was wild before, just wait till you see what these girls do when Snoop Dogg is unleashed and takes control of the camera. It's not sold in stores and can't be shown on tv, so call now and get the all new Girls Gone Wild doggy style hosted by Snoop Dog on video or DVD for just $9.99.

[Jamie Loftus]

I highly recommend the Peacock docu series whose reveals about Girls Gone Wild include the dubious or complete lack of consent of the participants, the many underage girls whose bodies were exploited for the sake of video sales, firsthand accounts of young women whose lives were damaged or destroyed by their appearance on the tapes, some of whom didn't even remember being filmed after being plied with alcohol from Girls Gone Wild producers, and some who were coerced into performing hardcore sex acts while not sober without proper compensation. This is not an anti sex work sentiment. These women were taken advantage of and had little to no agency as to what appeared in the final product. Nearly 30 years later. We can pretty easily understand it to be a horrific operation, but not before it had a tremendously big influence on Internet content. Girls Gone Wild began distribution in 1997, just shy of when the Internet became accessible in the mainstream, but you can feel its presence in the Hawktua style content we're still getting today.

What's one move in bed that makes.

[Jana Kramer]

A man go crazy every time?

[Unknown]

You gotta give him that hawktua and.

[Jamie Loftus]

Spent all that night.

You get me?

Of course there are stylistic changes. Joe Francis wasn't splicing lazy meme videos between clips of drunk women he presented as eagerly consenting. And it's important to note that in Tim and D's maybe defense that the women in their videos are fully clothed because they have to comply with the rules of the platforms they're beholden to. And so I actually agree with the New York Times when they say that their content is sort of a Gen Z PG 13 version of Girls Gone Wild. It's a concept they've grown up familiar with, though they would have actually been too young or not alive enough to buy the VHS tapes themselves, but the format was normalized and replicated through subsequent popular mediums and that format includes the payment structure of the subjects. Girls Gone Wild would get paid in T shirts, petty cash, or hats. And while I cannot certify this nothing about Tim and D's workflow as they proudly describe it in their quote unquote Tell all YouTube video, the Hawk Truth sounds any better. In fact, their system might be worse. It doesn't sound like Chelsea Bradford or Hayley Welch ever got the T shirts that the guys were printing with Hayley's face on them. And while sure Tim and D did appear to get verbal consent from their subjects on camera, the issues of both the possibility of consent due to intoxication and the fact that they aren't checking the ages of the people they're talking to. It's not ethical. Period. A long way of saying I don't feel bad for Tim and D for not getting the credit that they felt they deserved. And upon watching most of Hailey's immediate post hoctuit interviews, mostly on other video podcasts, I think she was appropriately dismissive of the men who felt they should be getting a cut of her likeness and words. Of course, there are plenty of other stereotypes that were applied to Haley that made this moment possible. The algorithm always boosts young white women. The hypersexualization of ordinary women was well established, as was stereotyping Southern accents as uneducated as was stereotyping women who admitted to enjoying sex as objects of ridicule or slut shaming. But one of the few advantages of coming to prominence in 2024 was that with the right assistance, Haley had a shot at seizing her own narrative. For a while anyway. And so to round this first part of the Hawk to a series out as Hayley Welch hard launched herself into pop culture and introduced the version of herself that would be to the public, I wanted to talk to someone who's been through this kind of process only 20 years earlier. My friend and top tier podcaster Courtney Kochak when we come back.

[Jana Kramer]

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[Jamie Loftus]

Welcome back to 16th Minute. Since I started writing this episode, we had to evacuate our home due to the city burning down, and we are continuing to dig deeper into the lore of Haley Welch, the Hawktua girl. By now. I hope it's clear to you that how one views Hayley Welch and the Hawktua phenomenon in general has a lot to do with who you are and what your experiences are. Something that only becomes clearer as Hailey's image is politicized, warped, and exploited for money as the months wear on. As we'll talk about next week, and while I think the result of all of this is still pretty bleak for her, I have noticed and honestly kind of agree with a number of people who have been put through a similar exploitation ringer in years past who were actually heartened to see that Hailey was able to wrest control of her image back from the guys who had posted her without her proper consent. But I wanted to understand that viewpoint better. So I called up Courtney Kochak, the incredible host of shows like Private Parts Unknown. And maybe you didn't know because I didn't. She worked for Girls Gone wild in the mid 2000s and she has some thoughts.

[Ashley Akoneti]

Here's our talk.

[Unknown]

I mean, this is a story that is obviously very entrenched in the Internet, but I feel like it has all of these dynamics that far predate the Internet.

[Jamie Loftus]

So I went to college for acting and was like Gonna be an actor. And so I went out to, to la and I, you know, I'm from like a small town in Minnesota. So like, I, for whatever, I had no idea. Like, I thought, you know, I had prepared myself in these certain ways. Like I did a BFA program and like scoured the Internet and was like on Model Mayhem and was like doing all the things that I thought that I could do. But I was still so naive and so sheltered. So when I got to LA, I didn't have any money. I had like $200. I mean, seriously, I was staying with a friend in Van Nuys, so I had no way to pursue what I was here to pursue, really. I did the Girls Gone wild tour in 2005 and I was 21. I was working this shit job in the Inland Empire. It was promoting Staples. So I was going like business to business in the heat of the Inland Empire. Do you want the easy button for your business? Like, handing out free shit? It was horrible. That was, you know, the context of me searching on Craigslist on my friend's futon, like, trying to find another job to get out of that hell. And I saw, like, do you want to travel for Girls Gone Wild? Like, do you want to go on the tour? You want to be the merch girl? And I was like, oh, this solves my problems. Like, I don't have a permanent home. I'm kind of like overstaying my welcome on my friend's couch. I, you know, I need money. I submitted for that Craigslist ad and it was literally like the next day I was at work in the Inland Empire and I faked that I was sick. And I went to meet with them at their offices in Santa Monica. They had this office building.

[Unknown]

What did you think when you thought Girls Gone Wild? What was your stance on it at the time?

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah, I had never seen an actual video. You know, like, I'd never seen their product. But the infomercials were ubiquitous. Like, that was. And they, they were fun to watch, right. It was like steel drum music, right? And it was like, yeah, these little pop up sensors. It looked like a party. It looked like what they were selling was a fun party. And like, yeah, girls flash and like, of course they're cool and it's fun. You know, that's what I thought. Yeah. So I had no fucking idea. You know, do the interview and I think it's going to solve all my problems because it's. I'm not going to have to find this place to live. I will have money. I had to look up my tax return. And I made, I think I made $50 a day is what I made. I was on the tour for like seven weeks. And so when you like do the math off of what I made, it was $46. Anyway, I get on the flight, I go do the interview. They basically tell me at the interview, like, your job is to make the girls feel comfortable. What they sort of didn't say is like enough to be exploited, you know. And I hadn't seen the video, so I didn't know exactly, but I could get the vibe. But I was like, yeah, I'm cool, I'm fun, I want to be hot enough to do, you know, like, totally.

[Unknown]

I mean, I think that it's like this weird. Oh, I've been entrusted with, like, I've been hired as a girl's girl.

[Jamie Loftus]

And the guy that I met with, he had had Hollywood kind of experiences, but it seemed adjacent to what I wanted to do. So I was like, I could kind of kid myself into feeling like it was like sort of like the entertainment industry. And yeah, I left like literally the next day, went to Vancouver. And then obviously we didn't have work permits in Canada. We were in Canada like half the time I was on the Tour. It was 2005, so Joe was starting to have legal problems at this point. And I never met him, but he definitely loomed large. He'd already, I think, been on People magazine and when we went to bars and stuff, it's like people knew about his, about him and like wanted to meet him. And then we were traveling in this garish branded bus that just said like, girls Gone wild. When we started doing the club events, I was like, oh, this is kind of like a sham. Like we're not bringing the party at all, really.

[Unknown]

Well, what do you. What do you mean?

[Jamie Loftus]

If you saw the infomercials, you would think, like we were going to roll up and there were going to be a bunch of girls. Like we were going to bring the girls, you know, but it was just okay. I was the only girl and I was like, I just saw a picture of myself. I was a baby. Like I was a little like fat cheeked little baby, 21 year old baby. See?

[Unknown]

And you were the only girl that they brought, is it? So were they just relying on the like, hey, we're going to be in this spot at this time and just sort of had people come do the work for them?

[Jamie Loftus]

Basically, yeah. I mean, you saw the documentary, so it's like that was their Whole thing was that. And they didn't want urban girls either. Like, we sometimes were in cities, but we were trying to get out of the cities asap because cities, college towns, it's like they didn't want anybody that was kind of, like, hip to what they were doing. They really wanted, like, a small town where people were naive.

[Unknown]

Like, it would be more of an event versus an audience.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yes. And it would be more of an event, but they were. We're also not. Like, there weren't, you know, a bunch of feminists to be like, hey, what the fuck's going on here? You know? Right, right.

[Unknown]

You don't have the counter protesters either.

[Jamie Loftus]

What they were doing is drawing in the girls from the town that they could then shoot and have be the product that they were selling. Obviously, nobody got paid. I didn't see anyone get paid, except one girl was a stripper. And so she knew how to negotiate with them. She knew to ask for money. You know, she, like, had a little savvy about it, but nobody else got paid.

[Unknown]

Were there consent forms? Was there any, like, checking of people's ages? Like, how did that side work?

[Jamie Loftus]

They had already gotten in trouble for this at this point. I think the. The age thing, you know, it was pretty specific. Like, the girl had to, like, hold up the ID and say on camera that she consented and sign the thing. Like, there were like, a few steps to the lock down the consent form, so. Well, that's.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's the other thing too is like, in retrospect, it's like, okay, I. I think that honestly getting a piece of paper is more than a lot of these on the street tiktokers do now. But it's also like, what does that piece of paper mean if you're blackout drunk when you sign it?

[Jamie Loftus]

I think it. They should be in, obviously. I don't know. It's like they are over 18. It's like, technically, yes, it's a legal document, but to sign a thing where you're like, giving permission to sell your body when you're drunk, I mean, it should be illegal to ask someone to sign that document.

[Unknown]

I think on a normal night while you're on this bus tour, what does it look like for you?

[Jamie Loftus]

Well, we did. We had so many issues, like, getting dates canceled. So we. It's not like we were working every night, thank God, but, like, when we did have an event on our good club nights, I would be selling T shirts, which was kind of hard to do, or sometimes the T shirts were being given away. You know, to the girls. But yeah, that was my job. And then hanging out on the bus, you know, pouring drinks and just like being a girl, which they told me would be the job, like, just to have you there, is going to make the other girls want to hang out. I wasn't like in the room when the naked stuff was happening, but I. But I would see them. For me, the most fucked up part. I mean, this is really. I don't know, we've never talked about this before, but like, this is like a defining thing for me. When I was 20 and 21, it's like I got raped twice. I did Girls Gone Wild. And then When I was 23, I had an abortion. And by the end I was like, oh, I don't. I'm like a totally different person. What I was about to say is one of the things that really made me depressed when I was on this tour was like, the whole vibe of it was like, we're rating women constantly on a scale from 1 to 10. We're scouting for these women to be in our scenes. Even if we're like out at dinner or, you know, whatever. Just like 24, seven. Like, the guys got paid 500 bucks or whatever for a scene. If they could get a scene which was. Would be like a girl eating out another girl or playing with sex toys or a scene is like, you know, like a porn scene.

[Unknown]

So the women doing this are signing consent forms and doing it for free or for merch. But if you're a guy who could convince them to do it. You make $500?

[Jamie Loftus]

Yes. Or I, I don't know exactly the amount. Like, maybe it was like 200 or something, you know. But yes, you were getting paid. You make money.

[Unknown]

What was it like? Sort of observing that and processing that. Because I also know you were like a baby feminist at this point too. And like, well, and I just, I.

[Jamie Loftus]

Want to caveat this by saying, like, I am very. Yes, I'm a feminist and I was finding my feminism at the time. But, like, I'm very sex positive. I have an only fans. Like, you know, I'm not coming at this like a prude. Like, I'm coming at this just in a way of like, oh, I. I grew up in the education system and I thought we were equal. And it turns out these women have no agency. And actually I don't have any agency either.

Right.

It's like, was a devastating thing to learn. So actually I ate my feelings, like, is what wound up happening. I gained like 15 pounds while I was on the bus, which was just kind of like a weird side effect of, of seeing all this happen. But yeah, it was. And, and we didn't have language. It was like pre me too. So I couldn't be like, this is what I'm witnessing. And you know, this is what's wrong with it. I was just like, I can't, I can't be here anymore. Was what wound up happening.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. This podcast is brought to you by Kim Crawford Wines as the holiday season brings us together, Kim Crawford invites you to add a touch of elegance to your gatherings. Whether you're hosting a festive dinner, a cozy get together with friends, or New Year celebration, make every moment amazing with a chilled glass of New Zealand's finest. Celebrate the joy of the season and create unforgettable memories with Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc, known for its vibrant blend of citrus, tropical fruit and crushed herbs. For a sparkling touch, enjoy Kim Crawford Prosecco. And for those looking to celebrate in a lighter and brighter way, try Kim Crawford Illuminate Sparkling, a lower alcohol sparkling wine that lets you savor amazing moments without compromise. Visit kimcrawfordwines.com to learn more and find Kim Crawford wines near you. Savor Amazing for those 21 and over, please savor responsibly. Constellation Imports Rutherford, California Kim Crawford Illuminate sparkling wine is 7% alcohol by volume compared to Kim Crawford Prosecco at 11% alcohol by volume.

[Unknown]

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[Courtney Kochak]

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[Unknown]

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So what were the circumstances that you left under?

[Jamie Loftus]

We wound up kind of getting kicked out of Canada or like we had to leave in the middle of the, you know, it was like we had to get an emergency flight out of Toronto about halfway, three or four weeks into my time on the tour. And then I went to Southeast US and we did like North Carolina and Georgia and Florida. I always forget I'd been to the top of Florida because I just kind of blocked it out. We also did St. Louis, Ohio, and by the end of my time, I can't even really, it's hard for me to remember that part because it had just gotten so weird for me to be there. And I realized, like, oh, I'm not like a girl gone wild right? At all. I got to get the hell out of here. But I had taken this job Because I needed money. So like the whole time I'm on the tour, debt collectors are calling me because like I hadn't paid my credit card. It's not like I had a place to go back to in la. La. And also I was so adamant about like what I'm gonna do. And I have these like very quaint Midwestern parents. I wasn't gonna call them and be like, listen, this is what's going on. I was totally wrong. I was felt trapped, which was like the worst part of it ultimately. I, I did leave. I left on. I, I left on September 30th was my 22nd birthday. And that's when I got back to LA. Yeah, there was some day where we were in like Alabama or like Florida or something and it was just like oppressive heat and I just could not anymore. And I told the guy and I was like, I didn't want to. I was kind of afraid they were going to make me pay for my flight home or I really didn't know how I was going to get out of there. And then. Yeah, that was like the one night. I don't even think they made me work that night.

[Unknown]

God, it's like the absolute least they can do. I hate that I'm surprised.

[Jamie Loftus]

And then I flew back and I was just really fucked up for a year and a half. I mean like, best case scenario was kind of like you were drunk and you actually signed the release form and there were girls like on the documentary that didn't even consent to being filmed, period, you know?

Right.

[Unknown]

And I mean I suck cases of like underage girls that were like, I was too drunk to consent and I was 17. And once you had moved on from that and you're like, okay, whatever I want to do, it's fucking not this. Did you notice as the years passed like what Girls Gone Wild's kind of legacy was? Did you see it pop up in other areas of media?

[Jamie Loftus]

It was such a huge cultural thing. The Gone Wild joke or whatever it was said by like everyone. And I feel like that's part of the insidious normalization is just like if you're straight laced politician is making jokes about it too. It seems so normal.

[Courtney Kochak]

Yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

And broken through Joe was, it's like he made millions of dollars. I mean there was the legal stuff that was sort of like bubbling but like he wasn't really disrespected in the culture. He was like held up as like this guy who made it. And so that's probably what these guys now. It's so funny to think about these guys now because they're targeting specifically drunk people and definitely does have some a whiff of Girls Gone Wild what they're doing. But I had written about it for the first time the Girls Gone wild thing in 2012. And the way that I write about it today isn't like drastically different from the way that I wrote about it then. So like I knew exactly what had happened and I could articulate it then before I even had the language. Like, I knew that this exploitation was happening and I could identify my role in it. Today feels like drastically different. That's why it almost until you reframed it. Like, I wasn't like, oh, Huktu is a victim. It's like Huktuh seems like such a privileged, you know, version of that. It's like she wasn't naked, she was just making a sex joke. It had nothing to do with her actually doing a sex act.

[Unknown]

You can't get away with what Joe Francis was doing in the same way anymore.

[Jamie Loftus]

Not even close.

No.

[Unknown]

And I think that that's an amazing thing. And I. But. And then there's also this like, whiff of like. But they're people will figure out a way to exploit young women no matter what.

[Jamie Loftus]

Really. OnlyFans is like the, you know, next level of Girls Gone Wild. And yes, there are people who are. They'll be the management company for these girls and like, they will get a huge cut of the profit and they'll do the chatting and whatever. And that is a little bit predatory. But it's nowhere near Girls Gone Wild. And most of what is happening on OnlyFans is girls themselves being like, oh, I'm going to monetize. And I'm not saying sometimes it happens also when they're 21 and too mentally immature to really like properly probably make that decision. But they're get. They're making the money themselves. They're making like thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands, occasionally millions of dollars. And to me that is like such an encouraging sign. I am really glad that like we, we have language now and the OnlyFans thing is, is an evolution in a positive way for sure. And so I, I do just want to acknowledge like the positive moves. But yeah, the culture still is not fixed. All the like, your body, my choice stuff too. It felt like, oh, maybe we really did kind of fix this. And then I was like, oh, just as soon as you think that, you will be shocked back into think realizing like, oh, no, we're, we're still there.

Thank you so so much to Courtney and you can follow her across all platforms at Courtney Kochak K O C A K I wanted to add that little bonus just to give some more context into where this content comes from, but the fact remains, we're at the end of week one of the Hawk to a series, and I have managed to get us to, I think, the second day of the Hawk to a story. But stay with me here. There are so many repeating patterns inside this story, both in the ways that Haley is framed, the decisions she makes, and the way the public reacts to her. And whether you like this woman or not, whether you agree with what she thinks or the kind of audience she pulls, or the kinds of people she's been surrounded by, plenty of, this is up for discussion. She was put in an extremely weird position to navigate her way through or out of, and from what I can gather, it was not necessarily voluntarily. So now that we have a better understanding of how she got here, who the fuck is Hayley Welch and how the fuck does she end up in a crypto scam six months after this? That's next week on 16th Minute. And a little foreshadowing to close out this episode. I hate to interrupt you, but hello there. But anywho, I'm gonna go to bed and I'll see you guys next Tuesday. Bye.

[Unknown]

16Th minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio.

[Jamie Loftus]

It is written, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor. Our theme song is by Sad13. Voice acting is from Grant Crater and Pet Shout outs to our dog producer Anderson, My cats Flea and Casper and my pet rock bird who will outlive us all. Bye.

[Ashley Akoneti]

This is Ashley Akoneti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Kim Crawford Wines. This time of year is perfect to enjoy surrounded by loved ones. Make it special with a chilled glass of New Zealand's finest Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc or Kim Crawford Illuminate Sauvignon Blanc, a lower alcohol wine that's perfect for any occasion. Visit kimcrawfordwines.com to learn more for those 21 and over. Savor responsibly. Constellation Imports, Rutherford, California Kim Crawford Illuminate Sauvignon Blanc wine is 7% alcohol by volume compared to Kim Crawford sauvignon blanc at 12.5% alcohol by volume. Visit kimcrawfordwines.com to learn more at David's.

[Jamie Loftus]

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[Courtney Kochak]

It's the perfect time to refresh those household essentials and score some cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive. From toothpaste to dish soap, chances are you've got Colgate Palm olive products on your shopping list and in your house. Right now we're talking brands like Colgate Soft Soap, Palmolive, Irish Spring, Fabuloso and Tom's of Maine. And right now you can get up to a $10 digital Visa prepaid card when you buy up to $30 of Colgate Palmolive products. Here's how it Spend $20 on their products, get $5 spend $30. Get a $10 reward. All you do is shop your favorite brands, snap a pic of your receipt and upload it to CPR. It's so easy. That's cprewards.com so grab what you need. Or maybe try something new and get rewarded just for doing your usual shopping. And start your year fresh by earning cash back rewards with Colgate Palmolive rewards available while supplies Last, limit supply us only 1125 through 331 25. For full terms and conditions, visit cprewards.com.