oh, by the way, f*** you: liam kyle sullivan and kelly, pt. 2

Summary

Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) - Episode: "oh, by the way, f* you: Liam Kyle Sullivan and Kelly, Pt. 2"**

Release Date: February 27, 2025
Host: Jamie Loftus
Produced by: Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction

In the latest episode of Sixteenth Minute (of Fame), host Jamie Loftus delves deeper into the life and legacy of Liam Kyle Sullivan, best known for his iconic internet character, Kelly. This episode, titled "oh, by the way, f*** you: Liam Kyle Sullivan and Kelly, Pt. 2," explores the intricate relationship between Sullivan’s online fame and his personal life, shedding light on the challenges and triumphs that come with being an internet sensation.

Revisiting the Internet’s Early Days

The conversation begins with Jamie introducing her cousin, Chloe Sullivan, who reminisces about their shared experiences watching Liam’s “Shoes” videos on YouTube during their school years.

Chloe Sullivan [03:01]:

"We had our computer room or it was probably right before the computers made their way to our bedrooms, which sounds horrifying."

This nostalgia sets the stage for understanding how Liam's content became a staple of their daily lives, highlighting the pervasive influence of early internet culture.

The Genesis of Kelly and Internet Fame

Jamie and Chloe discuss the origins of Kelly, the character that catapulted Liam into internet fame. They reflect on the unique aspects of Kelly's persona and how it resonated with audiences.

Chloe Sullivan [03:14]:

"Muffins is everything. I have true word association with banana. Shards of glass, shots of glass, fire. Anything. Fire."

Liam confirms the regional influences on his character, attributing Kelly’s quirks to his New England roots, which added authenticity to the character's charm.

Liam Kyle Sullivan [03:57]:

"I know in retrospect I'm like, oh, he was obviously from Boston because all of his characters have like..."

Navigating the Pressures of Viral Success

The heart of the episode focuses on Liam's experiences navigating the unexpected pressures of viral fame. He candidly discusses the difficulties in maintaining creative integrity while being under the scrutiny of an online audience.

Jamie Loftus [05:33]:

"How do you bring that to your reps and to meetings?"

Liam Kyle Sullivan [07:00]:

"I don't know if that was, like, a thing where we're trying to market to this audience and you're finding this audience, and we don't match up, our audience doesn't match up with yours, so we're not interested."

Liam shares his struggles with the pressure to conform to audience expectations and the impact it had on his creative process. He reflects on how he felt trapped by the need to continually produce content that matched the success of "Shoes," leading to burnout and a sense of stagnation in his creative journey.

Liam Kyle Sullivan [08:59]:

"I guess I've just stopped thinking about that, and it's made me much happier."

The Toll on Mental Health

A significant portion of the discussion addresses the toll that internet fame took on Liam's mental health. He opens up about dealing with anxiety, the loss of his mother, and the necessity of therapy in coping with his experiences.

Liam Kyle Sullivan [14:16]:

"It took years of therapy later, but the therapy helped me mostly with the feelings of anxiety that I would have."

He recounts the profound impact of his mother's passing and how it coincided with the peak of his internet fame, exacerbating his struggles.

Liam Kyle Sullivan [15:43]:

"And so the reason there's an acceptance video of just me on the couch is because that year there was a writer strike."

Balancing Fame and Personal Life

Jamie shifts the conversation to Liam's personal life, highlighting his relationship with his wife, whom he met while performing as Kelly. Their unique meeting story underscores the blending of his professional persona with his personal life.

Liam Kyle Sullivan [19:53]:

"We met... I was doing a show at the Henry Fonda Theater in October of 2006."

Their relationship blossomed from shared performances and mutual understanding of each other's public personas, leading to a supportive family environment.

Jamie Loftus [22:03]:

"Do you have two kids now?"

Liam Kyle Sullivan [22:09]:

"Yeah. Daughter's 11 and our son is 5."

Liam discusses parenting in the digital age, emphasizing the importance of protecting his children from the pervasive nature of online interactions and ensuring they have a balanced upbringing away from the public eye.

Liam Kyle Sullivan [23:38]:

"We do things like, you know, she has a phone, but it doesn't have social media on it."

Reconnecting with Kelly and Embracing Personal Growth

In the latter part of the episode, Liam reflects on his evolving relationship with Kelly, acknowledging the need to separate his self-worth from the character. He emphasizes the importance of personal growth and finding joy in creative expression without the looming shadow of past success.

Liam Kyle Sullivan [25:28]:

"My relationship with Kelly has definitely changed. It's weird because I am Kelly, so it's really... I'm talking about myself."

He shares his journey towards self-acceptance and the strategies he's employed to maintain his mental well-being while continuing to perform and create.

Jamie Loftus [26:19]:

"You were having to feel like you had to do in 2006 of, like, chasing the numbers, making sure that, like, you're calibrating something to be creatively satisfying to this machine."

Liam Kyle Sullivan [27:35]:

"Shoes broke a lot of rules."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Jamie expressing her gratitude to Liam for sharing his profound and vulnerable experiences. She highlights the significance of his work and the enduring impact of Kelly as a generational touchstone in internet culture.

Jamie Loftus [28:34]:

"Thank you so much to the wonderful Liam Kyle Sullivan."

Liam Kyle Sullivan [29:18]:

"Thank you."

Jamie teases the next episode, promising to explore the language of today's internet, while Liam hints at upcoming performances and his ongoing creative endeavors.

Jamie Loftus [29:23]:

"Next week on 16th minute, we are taking a side quest into the language of today's Internet. See you then."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Chloe Sullivan [03:01]:
  "We had our computer room or it was probably right before the computers made their way to our bedrooms, which sounds horrifying."

• Liam Kyle Sullivan [08:59]:
  "I guess I've just stopped thinking about that, and it's made me much happier."

• Liam Kyle Sullivan [14:16]:
  "It took years of therapy later, but the therapy helped me mostly with the feelings of anxiety that I would have."

• Liam Kyle Sullivan [22:09]:
  "Daughter's 11 and our son is 5."

• Liam Kyle Sullivan [25:28]:
  "My relationship with Kelly has definitely changed. It's weird because I am Kelly, so it's really... I'm talking about myself."

• Liam Kyle Sullivan [27:35]:
  "Shoes broke a lot of rules."

Insights and Takeaways

This episode of Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) offers a deep dive into the complexities of internet fame and its repercussions on personal well-being. Liam Kyle Sullivan's candid reflections provide valuable insights into:

• The Evolution of Internet Culture: Understanding how early viral sensations like Kelly shaped online interactions and content creation.

• Mental Health and Creativity: Highlighting the importance of mental health support for creatives navigating public scrutiny.

• Balancing Public and Private Life: Strategies for maintaining personal relationships and family life amidst the demands of internet fame.

Listeners gain a nuanced perspective on the human side of online personas, emphasizing that behind every viral character lies a person grappling with maintaining authenticity and personal growth.

Conclusion

Jamie Loftus expertly navigates the delicate balance between discussing internet fame and personal vulnerability in this episode. Through her empathetic interviewing style, she allows listeners to connect with Liam Kyle Sullivan on a profound level, appreciating both his professional achievements and personal struggles. This episode serves as a testament to the enduring impact of early internet culture and the resilience required to thrive beyond the screen.

For more engaging discussions on the internet’s most intriguing characters, tune into Sixteenth Minute (of Fame), where each episode uncovers the stories behind the fleeting moments that define digital notoriety.

Transcript

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[Jamie Loftus]

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Media.

[Jamie Loftus]

Hello 16 minute listeners. Last call for tickets. The Bechtel cast is doing our post Oscars Spectacular show in person in Los Angeles at Dynasty Typewriter and on a live stream with tickets this Sunday, March 2nd. It's going to be a blast. We're going to be celebrating the show. We will have guest spots from three of our favorite guests, Danielle Perez, Akilah Hughes and Grace Freud, live and in person. And if you have live stream tickets and you cannot watch at that exact moment. No worries. Feel free to get a ticket anyways, you will be able to watch the show for the next week. Okay. Episode time. Shoes.

[Chloe Sullivan]

Oh, my God.

[Jamie Loftus]

Do you remember? I don't remember exactly when we first. So I feel like I remember being at your house, like in the computer room or whatever.

[Chloe Sullivan]

Yeah, now that I'm thinking about it, we either had our computer room or it was probably right before the computers made their way to our bedrooms, which sounds horrifying.

[Jamie Loftus]

So this is my cousin Chloe, and we used to, amongst other things, watch Liam Kyle Sullivan's shoes on YouTube every single single day after school.

[Chloe Sullivan]

You would have been last year of middle school, junior high, and I would have been a freshman or incoming freshman into high school. And that's when. When everything changed.

[Jamie Loftus]

When. When Kelly. Did you know that Kelly, or I guess Liam is from New England?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

No.

[Chloe Sullivan]

Yeah, that makes it even better. Massachusetts. Oh, okay. I didn't know if we were talking about like New York, Connecticut, Massachusetts, like the whole of New Englander.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Okay.

[Chloe Sullivan]

Good people, kid.

[Jamie Loftus]

Do you remember muffins?

[Chloe Sullivan]

Muffins is everything. I have true word. The dog was just roaming the house. I have true word association with banana. Shards of glass, shots of glass, fire. Anything. Fire.

[Jamie Loftus]

I know in retrospect I'm like, oh, he was obviously from Boston because all of his characters have like.

[Chloe Sullivan]

But that's what I think is. And but what I think is so amazing is I did not pick up on that at all.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Right.

[Chloe Sullivan]

As a 13, 14 year old, I'm like, this is how every mother or person from here talks, so why wouldn't they talk?

[Jamie Loftus]

Every mom says fire.

[Chloe Sullivan]

Especially, what do you want, little Johnny? I'm like, yeah, that's how we talk here. Exactly. That's why. How long ago was that? Which is gross.

[Jamie Loftus]

I don't want to age it 20 years.

[Chloe Sullivan]

But I mean, thank you.

[Jamie Loftus]

I love you. I love you, liam Kyle Sullivan, aka Kelly. Your 16th minute continues now.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

16 minutes.

[Jamie Loftus]

Welcome back to 16th Minute, the podcast where we talk to the Internet's main characters and speak about how their moment affected them and how it changed the Internet and us. And today we are continuing my talk with Liam Kyle Sullivan, AKA Kelly of Shoes fame. I have been so happy to hear how much people are enjoying the first part of this episode. So no commentary from me at the top. We're just going to jump back into it. We return to my interview with Liam Kyle Sullivan at the Lyric Hyperion. A lot of just like Internet stuff is just very commonly understood now because it's just been around for so long and almost in a kind of, like, dystopian way sometimes. But, like, who in your life could possibly relate with what you were going through? Like, there were so few people who had gone through anything like it.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

There were a handful of us.

[Jamie Loftus]

Right.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I met Tay Zonday, who did Chocolate Rain.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yes. Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Wonderful human being.

[Jamie Loftus]

He seems like a sweetheart, very smart.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And I got to meet him because Weezer did a music video. But this was three years later, so it was like 2008 or nine. Yeah, I think it was nine that I got to meet him. And we talked and we. Oh, wow. And Judson Lapley, who did the Evolution of Dance.

[Jamie Loftus]

Oh, yes.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I got to meet him as well.

[Jamie Loftus]

Nice.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

He's a very smart, lovely person, too. And, yeah, we've talked over the years, actually, Judson and I, about our experience, because I still kind of have to explain a little bit, like, it was a unique way to get famous at the time. It's still kind of unique. I mean, I guess it's not unique in that it's been going on for 20 years, but it's the kind of thing where it can happen like that. It can happen in a moment that you don't even expect. I feel lucky or fortunate that I was going for laughs. You know, I was trying to make be a performer and be out there. And some people that's not the case.

[Jamie Loftus]

You know, you have this, like, Internet clout that is clear, but also people don't fully understand. So when you're translating that to. Cause you're already in entertainment, you're a working actor at this point. How do you bring that to your, like, reps and to meetings?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I remember one meeting I had where, yeah, it was clear the guy didn't get why it was funny or why people liked it. I don't know if that's, like, a thing where, well, we're trying to market to this audience and you're finding this audience, and we don't match up, our audience doesn't match up with yours, so we're not interested. I think maybe that's what it might have been. One of the things I gave up or just, like, stopped doing in my brain was trying to think or imagine. I'd go in circles in my head. Why didn't that work? Why didn't. You know, Maybe it was because I was bringing in some anxiety like I was before. Like, I. I might have had some desperation on me. Cause I knew, like, this is a shot. This is, you know, you only got One shot. Do not miss your chance to blow. Like, that whole thing.

[Jamie Loftus]

Full eight mile. Full eight mile.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah, maybe I had. Don't fuck this up too. Too far forward in my head, you know, I try to think, what was my part in this? You know, why didn't it cross over into mainstream success? Or not even mainstream, just like, more traditional success? And I guess I've just stopped thinking about that, and it's made me much happier.

[Jamie Loftus]

Really? Really. Going into the Liam Sullivan Internet Archive experience, you were, like, ahead of the curve, and people didn't know what to do. Like, they didn't know how or if there was still a sense or I guess I'm curious if you felt the same way. Stuff that was very special to you on the Internet still felt, like, separate or, like, cool or underground. Even though every single person you knew had seen it. It still felt like, well, but people don't know about this, but we did.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah. It's funny, I meet people now who haven't seen it. I once did a show where there were a lot of straight people, straight men who didn't know who I had never seen, but were appreciative, weren't assholes. They were just like, wow, I never saw that. That was really good. I don't know how I missed it. And I was like, well, you know, another thing was that a couple years in, when I was making more and more videos, it really did become harder and harder to just do what I wanted because I suddenly, I was the studio exec. I could see the numbers.

[Jamie Loftus]

Right.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I could go under the hood in YouTube and say, people checked out your video at, you know, 3:23 or, you know, this video did really well. Make more videos like this.

[Jamie Loftus]

I mean, I know that some people are very, like, invigorated by that, but I find it very stressful and, like, creatively limiting. Okay.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah. And it's good to have limits as a creative person.

[Jamie Loftus]

Sure.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Sometimes. Because. Well, most times, the mother of invention, you know that. But in this sense, it was brand new. It's not like when you get in front of a crowd and you don't get laughs. You're like, okay, that didn't work. Let's go back, figure it out. You go up again, and it does get last. You're like, okay, I worked it out. It's working. Whereas I was now at a place where I kind of had to just put it out there. And if it wasn't working, well, you're.

[Jamie Loftus]

SOL and then be a data scientist on the back half and, like, which.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Is like, I needed someone else to be doing that. But I also didn't want somebody telling me, you should make more videos like this one.

[Jamie Loftus]

Right.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I was like, well, what about, you know, where I'm at now as a creative? That kind of went away, you know, I started trying to satisfy the numbers instead of making stuff that made me laugh.

[Jamie Loftus]

At what point did it stop being fun? When did it start to feel like a job?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I think I always had fun, but I did get to a point where I knew I had to do Kelly if I wanted to make a living. This was all I was doing. And there were no contracts coming in. There was no, like, oh, you're gonna be on this show, you know, paying. Like, that wasn't happening. And so, yeah, it was stressful. I tried to have fun, but at a certain point I just said, you know what? I think I have to stop. Gosh, I haven't really thought about this in a long time. So it's hard to articulate. It wasn't so much that I didn't like the character Kelly. Mm. It was like I felt like I was under her shadow. I never made anything as good as shoes or muffins. And so I felt like I'm just kinda. I'm just kind of. I don't know what the word is, like, circling. I feel like I'm hovering in this zone of creativity, but I'm not growing. Yeah, that's how it felt. It felt like a trap. It felt like, oh, geez, I can't do anything else. And plus, you know, I was kind of catapulted into a different way of making things right. You know, I had to make things kind of like shoes took months to make. I mean, I shot on the weekends, I shot at night.

[Jamie Loftus]

A lot of locations. There's a lot going on.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I location scouted, I did all that stuff. I was like, can you. I had three different cinematographers helping me.

[Jamie Loftus]

No way.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yes. Because people weren't available. Like, I was like, are you available on Saturday at 2:00? No, I'm doing this at. Okay. It was a lot.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And so I remember having one meeting with someone who said, yeah, we could do a new video every month. And I was like, I don't know if I can do that. Yeah. So it was. Yeah. I don't know if you want to call it burned out or taking a break from mental health or just like, realizing, oh, I can't really make money at this the way people are making money at this now. Like, that was like six Years later, totally five or six years later, where it had changed a lot. And people were churning out stuff, real cheap stuff, too, like just talking to camera. And I was like, I don't want to do that. I want to do a character and a story and all this stuff.

[Jamie Loftus]

Right. Truly, like, you can count on one hand people who had experienced anything like that when you were having to process it.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

How did you process stuff like that? That's, like, a lot of pressure to be under with literally no one to talk to about it that would understand.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I mean, jeez, I don't know how I process. Well, it took years of therapy later, but the therapy helped me mostly with the feelings of anxiety that I would have.

[Jamie Loftus]

Sure.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Because you have anxiety in life no matter what. And I felt like I needed help to deal with it, and I needed tools, strategies to say, okay, I can feel myself getting all worked up. Whether it's meditation or breathing or just something. I need something. And I got a lot of help with that in therapy. We did cognitive, behavioral, cbt. I was lucky. I found a good therapist. What really catapulted me into therapy was my mother died. And that hit me so hard because she was such an inspiration to me. And she died when I was 36, and I was just married. You know, it really messed me up for a while, but it was right around the same time, like five years after going viral, where that happened. And so it was kind of a. I was in a bad place.

[Jamie Loftus]

Was all of your family still in New England?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Mm, yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah. And being so far away, that's really hard.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah, my mom. Oh, my gosh. So I won a People's choice award for shoes.

[Jamie Loftus]

I saw the acceptance video.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And so the reason there's an acceptance video of just me on the couch is because that year there was a writer strike. And so did not have a regular ceremony with the red carpet and the step and repeat and all that. So I didn't get to go. But my mother watched the east coast feed, you know, the live airing. And she called me three hours before it came on out here, and she said, liam, you won. You won, you won. It was so great. That's so sweet. Yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

Oh, that's so cool.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I know.

[Jamie Loftus]

We'll be right back with more Liam. Kyle Sullivan.

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Jamie Loftus]

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[Jamie Loftus]

Learn more@meaningful beauty.com welcome back to 16th Minute. Ariana Grande is not going to win an Oscar this weekend, but I know how I feel. And here is the final piece of my interview with Liam Kyle Sullivan. Well, I mean I want to talk a little bit about. I mean, I just want to talk about New England all the time. Either like inspiration from your family or your actual family into your work at different times.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

They're all over it. I mean, the muffin lady is a hyper exaggerated version of my mother. She used to make gourmet. She studied to be a gourmet chef and she used to make these wonderful dishes for me and my sister. But we were kids so gourmet food was like trash to us. But she put it down in front of us and say, you'll Eat it. You'll eat it and like it. And that was. That stuck in my head. And I put that in the muffins video. Kelly's mother, Grandma. That's based on two of my grandmothers kind of mashed up together. And the dynamic, you know, in the shoes video.

[Jamie Loftus]

I know. Or I think I know. Maybe I'm wrong. You worked with your now wife on Kelly videos, right?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

How did you. Did you meet through doing that or how did you meet?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Oh, we met. Oh, it was great. It was so great. I was doing a show at the Henry Fonda Theater in October of 2006. It was a Halloween show, so everyone was dressed up in costume, and I was dressed as Kelly, and I did my set. We got off stage. I was walking to the lobby, and she walked past me. She was dressed as Marilyn Monroe, and I was like, wow, who's that? And you know, when time slows down, that's what happened. It felt like I was moving in slow motion as I looked at her and she looked back at me. Later, I'm in the lobby and I see her again, and I talk to her and I flirted with her. I was still in Kelly costume, but I felt really confident.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

So.

[Jamie Loftus]

I didn't know it was this connected to Kelly. This is awesome.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

So we didn't know what we really looked like.

[Jamie Loftus]

Right.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

So our first date was, like, a blind date because we said, we'll meet here. I didn't. In those days, you didn't look people up. Like, I didn't look her up to see what she really looked like.

[Jamie Loftus]

Right.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

That felt creepy to me.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

To, like, investigate her.

[Jamie Loftus]

I think people forget about that because it's so normalized now that, like, the idea of, like, online stalking someone used to be very creepy behavior.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when we met and we had a great first date. Yeah. We wound up. We went to this restaurant that both of us were like, this isn't us. Let's get out of here.

[Jamie Loftus]

Nice.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

So we took off and we went to this little bar. They were playing ABC by the Jackson 5. And have you seen her by the chi lights?

[Jamie Loftus]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Have you seen her? Tell me, have you seen. So that became our. The song we danced to at our wedding.

[Jamie Loftus]

That's so nice. Oh, my gosh. And I love that you met as two famous women and then became just two totally different people.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I never thought of it that way.

[Jamie Loftus]

That is so cool.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah. But I tell a little more about how we met in my show.

[Jamie Loftus]

And you have two Kids now.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

Okay.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Daughter's 11 and our son is 5. I just did baseball with him, and she's in a play. We're not, like, pushing her into that because, you know, we're just supporting if she wants to do it. Great. And she's made some short films, too.

[Jamie Loftus]

Whoa.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And she's got talent. She really does. She. I've. I've edited for her. She's been, like, the director and I've sat editing her stuff.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And she knows timing. She's got great timing. She's just really. She's got a lot of talent.

[Jamie Loftus]

And that must be so cool, getting to, like, collaborate with your parent and you collaborating with your daughter.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

That's so cool. Cause I'll try to teach her a little bit, but not too much. Cause I want her to figure shit out on her own.

[Jamie Loftus]

You have to realize her vision.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Well, but she knows what she wants.

[Jamie Loftus]

That rocks.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And that. Yeah, it totally rocks. I'm so happy.

[Jamie Loftus]

Does your daughter know about the Kelly videos? Has she seen them? Okay. What's her take? Does she like them?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

She likes them, but they're not. They're 20 years old, so it's like ancient history for her.

[Jamie Loftus]

Wild.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

But I don't really ask her about. I don't really know what her opinion is, per se, but she knows about it. And I've performed when she's been there a couple of times, I think. So she's heard the F bomb and all that. You know, it's different. Like, when she was 8, 6. You know, kids change so much over time.

[Jamie Loftus]

Totally.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

So she could have a totally different opinion now. I don't know.

[Jamie Loftus]

What is it like watching your kids be these, like, digital natives?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

We try to hold back as much as possible. It's like building a dam. Yeah, it's. You know, because you're not just opening them up to the world and what's out there. You're allowing people in to their world as well. We took a class about, like, how to protect your kids from, you know, predators or, you know, creepy people and stuff. And the best piece I got out of that piece of advice was, who's asking what? Who wants to do what with your kid and what are they doing and what are they asking to do? Like, oh, we need to, you know, do this thing privately or, you know, like, that kind of shit, but online, you just don't. That's a whole different world. So we got to take another class eventually. But we do things like, you know, she has a phone, but it doesn't have Social media on it.

[Jamie Loftus]

Right?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

It has. She can call her friends or text her friends. And that's it for my son. You know, he barely. He's only five, so he's. He's not there yet. Yeah, it's a new landscape and I feel for parents out there because you just don't know. Like, yeah, you can put all the fail safe, all the parental controls on the iPad and all that stuff to try to protect, but there's always going.

[Jamie Loftus]

To be a way around it. Like, it's just. Cleaning out my dad's house last summer, I found this letter I wrote to him. I must have been like 11 or 12, but it was like this long apology for having a secret MySpace account that my parents didn't know about. And it was like, I was like, I'm so sorry I've betrayed you, and like, blah, blah, blah. And I think he kept it because he thought it was funny. I'm curious how your relationship with the Internet has changed, but I guess I'm even more interested in how your relationship with Kelly has changed now that you're sort of like, reconvening with this character.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah, my relationship with Kelly has definitely changed. It's weird because I am Kelly, so it's really. I'm talking about myself. I am. You know what it is? It's kind of like, I did this cool thing. I can still do this cool thing. And I kind of like, stop the negative talk in my head. Like, every time it rears its ugly head, I'm like, I don't need to hear that. I don't need to think that I can just go with what's going on and feel good about performing this character and find joy in it and not think, oh, I'm just one dimensional, or, oh, I'm just this, you know, I'm not that talented, or like, all those terrible thoughts can go fuck themselves at this point.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's. Oh, man, that is very empowering to hear. I'm glad for you and I'm glad for the audience is that, like, people can tell you how important your work is to them because it's true. Like, there's just very few pieces of work like Kelly, especially at the specific time where it just is like, it's a generational work. It's really special. And I'm glad that you. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean, I'm a big fan and I'm so glad that your relationship with the character and your relationship with yourself is like, you can reconnect with it. On your own terms also come full circle and be back on stage. That's amazing.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

It is amazing.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And I tell myself, you know, Liam, it's okay to suck. It's okay. You can get up there thinking you're gonna suck, and you might suck. You might be awful. You might forget everything you wanted to say. You might just lay a big egg up there. But you got up there and you did it. And that's the thing. That way back when, like, 35 years ago, maybe, I got this advice, which was, dare yourself to suck. You know, if you're afraid of being bad at something, don't let that fear stop you from doing it.

[Jamie Loftus]

The Internet of today kind of discourages you from doing that in a way that feels a little frustrating. Of, like, again, like, you're saying, like, you were having to feel like you had to do in 2006 of, like, chasing the numbers, making sure that, like, you're calibrating something to be creatively satisfying to this machine.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah. Like, there's a trick to this, and if you learn the trick, you'll succeed.

[Jamie Loftus]

But there is. I mean, it's just impossible, because I feel like if you followed those rules, shoes wouldn't have happened, you know?

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Oh, yeah. Shoes broke a lot of rules.

[Jamie Loftus]

Oh, my gosh.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah. Yeah. I did a lot of things unconventionally.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

And it worked for me. This show that I'm doing is I'm gonna try to keep doing it and get it really good, and it's been difficult to do because it is such an emotional journey.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I'm talking about really, like, the stuff we talked about here, therapy. And it's a hard show to do. It's really hard.

[Jamie Loftus]

I can imagine. Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

It's. Sometimes I feel excited to do it, and other times I feel terrified to do it.

[Jamie Loftus]

And is that. Is this style of performance for you? It sounds pretty new, right? Something this personal.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Yeah, I've never really gotten personal like this in front of a big crowd. By the end of the show, like, I'll run the show in my head or, you know, just run the lines. By the end of it, I feel better thinking, like, maybe this is a good message. I think there's a good message in it. I don't think it's just me flapping my gums for an hour. There's funny parts, there's sad parts, But I think, as a whole, maybe people can come out of it with something. Almost every time I finish it, I feel good.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Thank you.

[Jamie Loftus]

Well, I mean, thank you for taking an hour and a half to talk with you.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

Did we talk for an hour and a half? Oh my God.

[Jamie Loftus]

No. I like there again, you're doing me a huge favor. This is like so I'm so cut stuff out. I'll find something to cut out, you know. Thank you so much to the wonderful Liam Kyle Sullivan. You can follow him at the links in the description and if you happen to be listening to this the day it comes out, he will be workshopping his show a Liam Kyle Sullivan show tonight at the lyric Hyperion in LA. And next week on 16th minute, we are taking a side quest into the language of today's Internet. See you then. And for your moment of fun, here is Kelly's most recent official appearance. A promo for Crocs.

[Liam Kyle Sullivan]

I don't think you're gonna fit. I mean your feet are gonna big. Oh, by the way, why don't I just go get your size. Thank you. No, seriously, thank you. You.

[Jamie Loftus]

16Th Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. It is written, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The amazing Ian Johnson is our supervising producer and our editor. Our theme song is by Sad13. Voice acting is from Grant Crater and pet shout outs to to our dog producer Anderson, my cats Flea and Casper and my pet rock bird who will outlive us all byee.

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