william hung, pt. 2

Summary

Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) Episode: William Hung, Pt. 2 | Release Date: November 12, 2024

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Introduction

In the second installment of the two-part series on William Hung, Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) delves deeper into the cultural and societal implications of his infamous stint on American Idol. Host Jamie Loftus, alongside co-hosts Joanna Teplin and Clee Shearer, explores the intersection of media representation, racial stereotypes, and the evolution of Asian American presence in Hollywood.

William Hung's American Idol Audition

William Hung's appearance on American Idol in 2004 became a viral phenomenon. While many remember him for his unique rendition of Ricky Martin's "She Bangs," his moment on the show sparked widespread discussions about race, representation, and media portrayal.

• Jamie's Reflection: "I remember when I auditioned for American Idol back in 2004... some people say that I portray Asian stereotypes. Other people say that I shouldn't be in the entertainment business." ([17:06])

Racism and Discrimination on American Idol

The podcast critically examines the systemic racism embedded within American Idol, highlighting how Asian contestants, particularly William Hung, were subjected to disproportionate scrutiny and criticism.

• Clee on Discrimination: "Nine out of ten complainants were black men who said they were disproportionately focused on with speculation to their criminal history, then punished for it." ([08:22])

Legal actions further underscored these discriminatory practices. In 2013, ten Black contestants filed a lawsuit alleging that the show exploited Black participants to boost ratings, revealing a pattern of racial bias.

Stereotypes in Media: Long Duck Dong and Beyond

Drawing parallels between William Hung and longstanding Asian stereotypes in Western media, the podcast discusses characters like Long Duck Dong from Sixteen Candles as embodiments of racial caricatures.

• Clee on Long Duck Dong: "He is a quote unquote good boy. A model minority stock character with an overemphasis on good behavior and academics." ([23:19])

These portrayals perpetuated harmful stereotypes, portraying Asian men as academically focused yet socially inept, limiting their representation to one-dimensional roles.

Interview with Nancy Wang Yun: Representation of Asian Americans

Guest Nancy Wang Yun, a sociologist and author of Real Inequality, Hollywood Actors and Racism, provides an in-depth analysis of William Hung's impact on Asian American representation.

• Nancy on William Hung: "William Hung fit into the model minority stereotype, something that we really wanted to push against. So we definitely were cringing because he fit into the mono minority stereotype as well." ([35:33])

She elaborates on how Hung's popularity was a double-edged sword—while he brought visibility to Asian Americans, his portrayal reinforced existing stereotypes, complicating the fight for diverse and authentic representation.

Evolution of Asian American Representation in Media

Over the past two decades, Asian American representation has seen incremental improvements, thanks in part to groundbreaking works like Crazy Rich Asians and the global influence of K-Pop.

• Joanna on Progress: "Twenty years later, we can look back on William Hung and see his sweetness and see his sincerity and not just see him as a stereotype." ([48:08])

Despite these advancements, representation remains limited and often confined to specific stereotypes, highlighting the ongoing challenges faced by Asian Americans in Hollywood.

Reality TV Editing Practices: Interview with Steve Flack

The podcast features an interview with Steve Flack, a seasoned reality TV editor, who sheds light on the manipulative editing practices that shape contestant narratives.

• Steve on Editing Ethics: "Reality television has a lot in common with another one of my hobbies, which is professional wrestling. It's all kayfabe." ([64:40])

He discusses the concept of "Frankenbite," wherein footage is edited to fabricate narratives, often distorting the truth to fit desired storylines. This practice contributed to the sensationalized and often derogatory portrayal of William Hung on American Idol.

Conclusion: William Hung's Legacy and Lessons Learned

Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) concludes by reflecting on William Hung's enduring legacy. While his moment on American Idol is often viewed through a lens of mockery, the podcast emphasizes his resilience and authenticity amidst pervasive racism and stereotyping.

• Jamie on Legacy: "William Hung has remained adamantly himself. Something that is extremely difficult to do with 20 years of public and Internet opinions being hurled at you." ([50:00])

The episode underscores the importance of nuanced representation and the need to move beyond stereotypes to celebrate the diverse identities within the Asian American community.

Key Takeaways

• Systemic Racism in Media: William Hung's experience on American Idol exemplifies broader issues of racial discrimination and stereotyping in mainstream media.

• Impact of Stereotypes: Media portrayals like Long Duck Dong perpetuate limited and harmful stereotypes, restricting the complexity of Asian American identities.

• Progress and Challenges: While there have been strides in Asian American representation, significant challenges remain in achieving authentic and diverse portrayals.

• Editing Ethics in Reality TV: Manipulative editing practices can distort contestant narratives, often reinforcing existing biases and stereotypes.

Notable Quotes

1. "I remember when I auditioned for American Idol back in 2004... some people say that I portray Asian stereotypes." — William Hung ([17:06])

2. "Long Duck Dong is indisputably presented as the butt of the joke. And studies found that this happened more often than not throughout Hollywood's history." — Clee Shearer ([23:31])

3. "Reality television has a lot in common with another one of my hobbies, which is professional wrestling. It's all kayfabe." — Steve Flack ([64:40])

4. "William Hung fit into the model minority stereotype, something that we really wanted to push against." — Nancy Wang Yun ([35:33])

5. "William Hung has remained adamantly himself. Something that is extremely difficult to do with 20 years of public and Internet opinions being hurled at you." — Jamie Loftus ([50:00])

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For a deeper understanding, listeners are encouraged to read Nancy Wang Yun's book, Real Inequality, Hollywood Actors and Racism, available through the podcast's description links.

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Sixteenth Minute (of Fame) is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartPodcasts. Hosted and produced by Jamie Loftus, the podcast offers insightful analyses of internet and pop culture phenomena, blending reporting, interviews, and personal reflections to unravel the complexities of fame in the digital age.

Transcript

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Jamie here. Just a few quick housekeeping things at the top of this episode. First off, I am excited to say that I'm doing my first proper taping of a special of mine on December 4th in Los Angeles. It is called the Tiny Man Is Trying to Kill Me. I'm so excited if you've been following my work for a long time. I really love building shows like this and it's cool to finally be making kind of a proper production. So there's going to be two tapings on December 4th at the Lyric Hyperion. It is a mix of of some of my newer standup and a performance about the titular tiny man who's trying to kill me. And it's all kind of about the tendency to bastardize every part of your life for material and hashtag content. Working some shit out if you will. But it's also very silly and very fun and there's brief nudity. I'd love to see you there. Tickets are in the description. Second, I wanted to plug another show that I produce on iheartradio called we the Unhoused with Theo Henderson. It's a long running podcast about issues that face the unhoused from unhoused perspectives. There aren't really shows that do that and it's especially important to be informed on right now given the recent Supreme Court decision called Grants Pass that makes it all but illegal to be unhoused in the US which will get worse in the coming administration. For more on that, the link is also in the description. And finally today we are talking about Part two of William Hung as the title of the episode indicates. But I wanted to give you a heads up that in December we're going to be doing a multi part series on the main characters of the Manosphere. Obviously a big conversation right now and I'm looking for sources for that episode. So if you are or know someone that was interested in the manosphere and then got out of interest in the manosphere, I would love to talk to you. It can be anonymous and the email to reach out to is smalliceresurfacermail.com okay, hope everyone's hanging in and enjoy William Hung American Idol is guilty of a lot of things. It's guilty of letting Ryan Seacrest wear jeans with a blazer like he's Kamala Harris giving a pep talk at an elementary school. It's guilty of burdening us with Chris Daughtry. But if you watched early American Idol, you'll know it wasn't just guilty of millennium kitsch, but damn, there was a lot of that. And there were also a lot of pernicious elements, elements of racism, of sexism, of xenophobia that you could literally hear on the show, often from Simon Cowell. But there was a diverse pool of American Idol winners in those early years. In the first six seasons, three winners were white and three were black. But there are also full half decades where the winners were truly profoundly random white guys. A winner named Philip Phillips. You're joking. And this has been called out throughout the show's history. Elton goddamn John called it out all the way back in 2004 when future EGOTter Jennifer Hudson was eliminated from the show on, wait for it, Barry Manilow Night from the LA Times in 2004.

[Jamie Loftus]

The three people I was really impressed with, and they just happened to be black young female singers, and they all seem to be landing in the bottom three, said John, commenting on the tally in which the lowest vote getter is eliminated. They have great voices, the fact that they're constantly in the bottom three, and I don't want to set myself up here, but I find it incredibly racist.

[Clee Shearer]

While it did feature a diverse array of contestants, it's impossible to argue that American Idol was a truly, truly inclusive show, and not just because of the very existence and concept of Barry Manilow Knight. There were elements of discrimination that you couldn't see as a viewer, and once that went all the way to court. In early 2013, news broke that 10 Black contestants had filed a suit against the show with the Equal Opportunity Commission that alleged that they were, quote, deliberately exploiting black contestants to improve the show's ratings. The suit is an extremely long one, but to summarize, I'll quote from this Guardian piece from Amanda Holpuch at the time, speaking here about filing lawyer James Freeman, Freeman said he noticed something was awry when Jermaine Jones was kicked off the show in March 2012. Producer said at the time that Jones was disqualified because he had not told the show there were outstanding warrants for his arrest. Freeman also said in the letter that he saw that only nine other people had been publicly disqualified from the show and they were all black. Freeman claimed in that letter that by asking potential contestants if they had been arrested. Producers violated California employment law, under which employers are not allowed to ask potential.

[Jamie Loftus]

Employees about their arrest history.

[Clee Shearer]

In the letter, he said that the.

[Jamie Loftus]

Show perpetrated destructive stereotypes about black people.

[Clee Shearer]

By using their answer to that question and employing private investigators to examine their arrest history, allowing them to disqualify the contestants. And from the lawsuit itself, a staggering.

[Jamie Loftus]

31% of every American Idol semifinalist contestant who happened to be a young black male was disqualified from the singing competition for reasons wholly unrelated to their singing talent. Even though there were three times as many white or non black contestants featured on American Idol over the course of 10 years, there has never been a single white or non black contestant disqualified from American Idol. Not ever.

[Clee Shearer]

Nine out of ten complainants were black men who said they were disproportionately focused on with speculation to their criminal history, then punished for it. A similar discrimination case had been brought the year before by black contestants of the Bachelor, and the case was thrown out on the ground that casting isn't the same thing as hiring and that rejecting black applicants was fair under the First Amendment. What? But things didn't go much better in the Eidl lawsuit. In late 2014, it was revealed that the statute of limitations didn't apply for nine out of 10 contestants who sued and the other got dismissed on a technicality. But there's no doubt that American Idol has a history of racism and discrimination in the treatment of their contestants. And it's not like this was Idol's idea. For my money, this just reflected the amount of permissible discrimination that was acceptable at this time. I'm not saying it's much or at all better now, but the post 911 era was rife with casual xenophobia, with shaming women into eating disorders, to closeting queer people by threatening retaliation or shaming for being out at all. This was the world then and Idol was reflecting it. And when it came to reinforcing existing stereotypes around marginalized people, no one was safe. And no contestant kicked off the questions about how race was treated within the show like William Hohn. In part one of this series, we revisited how William's infamy rolled out and spoke with the man himself. And today we are looking at his cultural impact and what we can learn about representation and reality TV by taking a closer look at his story. So let's start he banging baby it's part two of William Humm.

[Jamie Loftus]

With it all the time so make me a give me one moment.

[Clee Shearer]

Welcome back to 16th minute, the podcast where we take a look at the Internet's main characters and learn how their moment affected them and what it says about us and the Internet. And this week we're delving deeper into the saga of William. Hum, sir. She bangs himself.

[Joanna Teplin]

She bangs, she bangs. Oh, baby. When she moves, she moves.

[Clee Shearer]

Getting to speak with William was really wonderful. And his huge cultural moment was so impactful that it became literally impossible to get everything I wanted to talk about in the space of a single episode. Because one issue in particular is so significant in the discussions that surrounded William at the time. And since that, I wanted to give the topic its own space. And that's what we're doing today because there's framing an audition as bad and framing an audition as bad while referencing and capitalizing on racial stereotypes to make the audition seem even worse. For example, here's how a mediocre white contestant might be rejected.

[Jamie Loftus]

Thank you so much, Victor. Should we just do this together, you guys?

[Joanna Teplin]

On the count of three.

[Jamie Loftus]

One, two, three. No.

[Joanna Teplin]

Victor, you are a terrible singer. You are a terrible dancer.

[Jamie Loftus]

You have no charisma. I mean everything.

[Clee Shearer]

No charisma? No.

[Jamie Loftus]

I've seen some of those people that you sent through there, and I know I'm a lot better than them.

[Clee Shearer]

Oh, dude. I got all the energy, Victor.

[Joanna Teplin]

I got a wonderful voice.

[Clee Shearer]

Victor, you know what?

[Jamie Loftus]

It doesn't matter what we think.

[Clee Shearer]

All that matters is what you think anyway. Your voice is terrible. It's definitely what America thinks, Victor.

[Jamie Loftus]

America definitely what America? Victor, America would hate you.

[Clee Shearer]

And here's how William was treated. Yeah, he's not great, but listen to how he's spoken about William.

[Jamie Loftus]

What's your last name? Hung. H U N G. Hung. Yes.

[Joanna Teplin]

Do you have brothers and sisters? No, I don't.

[Jamie Loftus]

I'm the only child. You're the only child? Yes.

[Joanna Teplin]

Do your parents tell you you have a great voice?

[Jamie Loftus]

No, they don't realize that actually. Great.

[Joanna Teplin]

Are they excited for you that you're here?

[Jamie Loftus]

Actually, they would not like it if they hear that, you know, I'm missing school for two days in a row, so. They wouldn't like it if you got through, huh?

[Joanna Teplin]

They wouldn't be happy if you got through?

[Jamie Loftus]

No, they would be happy if I go through. They wouldn't be happy if I don't go through. Because you missed two days of school?

[Clee Shearer]

Yes.

[Jamie Loftus]

That's a big sacrifice, William. It's one of actually the worst auditions we've had this year, if I'm being honest. Seriously, I mean, everything about it was grotesque.

[Clee Shearer]

Oh, stop it. Not grotesque. It was stop it already. You can hear the judges leaning into common early aughts tropes around Asian American people and more specifically East Asian men. He's hyper focused on academics. He should be doing homework. His parents wouldn't approve of a career in entertainment and would rather he excel in school. In subsequent media appearances William made, he would often be asked how he's doing with the ladies, or in his own music video, would be surrounded by conventionally attractive white women who were only into him because of his fame.

[Jamie Loftus]

I'm Tony, the record company guy. Nice to meet you. I want you to meet your new girlfriend, Amanda Swifton. Hi.

[Joanna Teplin]

Nice to meet you.

[Jamie Loftus]

Hi.

[Clee Shearer]

And did that boyoye yoing sound happen over the image of William's eyes bouncing out of his head, horny cartoon wolf style? Yes, of course it was. Making the idea that women would be interested in William into a joke reinforces another long standing media stereotype against East Asian that they are somehow less masculine or worthy of any sexual attention. This is an extremely complicated topic and one that I'm going to get into with our guest Nancy Wong Yun today. And I just want to add already that these stereotypes being thrown at William here are just as tied in the Western tendency to turn Asia into this big monolith in their minds, when of course that's ridiculous. And the bad faith that we're seeing here revolves around stereotypes rooted in in East Asia, in the West. And yes, William Hung is framed to embody many of the tropes that Americans had embraced around Asian men at the time. But William Hung is also a real person. As you heard in our interview last week, William's feelings towards the role anti Asian racism played into his moment are complex and have changed over time. For him and many, the message of perseverance and positivity is what he feels catapulted him to success on Idol. And he's generally said that he doesn't think the Idol production itself was discriminatory, but he has been critical of how the media treated him in the 2000s. Here he is in 2020.

[Jamie Loftus]

I remember when I auditioned for American idol back in 2004, I had a lot of fans, but I also had quite a bit of quite a big number of haters. Some people say that I portray Asian stereotypes. Other people say that I shouldn't be an entertainment business. There's all these negative things.

[Joanna Teplin]

But let's take a step back.

[Jamie Loftus]

Why are we being so negative? Does it help us to improve our lives by taking out our anger on people like that? Not really.

[Clee Shearer]

And in this same talk, William discusses how he was upset by the massive wave of anti Asian racism that came in the early months of the coronavirus pandemic.

[Jamie Loftus]

It really bothers me that there are people locally in the Los Angeles area getting shamed, getting attacked, getting spat on. It's not right.

[Clee Shearer]

So of course he's well aware of the cultural stereotypes that he's being judged by, and he's also just being himself. So what do you do? First, let's focus on that media reception. Because American Idol couldn't make a star without the interest and cooperation of both the media and and the public. I can't cover this subject comprehensively in the space of an episode, and I am not the ideal person to. But I want to give you an idea of the attitudes towards Asian men, specifically when William Hung first came into the American spotlight. For further reading, I would recommend the Making of Asian America, A History and Serve the People Making Asian America in the long 60s, which takes special care in analyzing how Americans were conditioned to see Asian people as a monolith in the back half of the 20th century. You can find those at the links in the description. In brief, racism against Asians in America is long standing and far reaching. There's unfortunately no shortage of violence, harassment and discrimination against Asian Americans in recent years. Particularly around the time of the pandemic, There were tremendous waves of propaganda demonizing Asian countries and people during both the Korea and Vietnam wars. And the 1882 Chinese Exclusion act in the US made it all but impossible for Asian people to integrate into American society at all. And much of the violence toward Asian people is elevated and reinforced by the pop culture that portrays them in the west, including truly horrific yellow face performances from white actors that would have been remembered by many older idol viewers in 2004. Major examples that audiences might have known about included, of course, Mickey Rooney's trash performance as Mr. Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[Joanna Teplin]

Mystical rivalry.

[Jamie Loftus]

I protest. Oh, darling, I am sorry, but I lost my key.

[Joanna Teplin]

But that was two weeks ago.

[Jamie Loftus]

You cannot go on or keep ringing my bell.

[Joanna Teplin]

You disturb me.

[Jamie Loftus]

You must have a key made.

[Clee Shearer]

But there's more where that came from. John Wayne played Genghis Khan. Katharine Hepburn in a movie called Dragonseed. The white actor who played Charlie Chan in 16 movies entire career. The list goes on. And part of this was related to the Hays Code, an extremely restrictive policy in American movies from the 1930s into the 60s that explicitly banned any sexual contact between different races on screen. So if you did cast an Asian actor in an Asian role. They couldn't have a love interest who was of any other race. But this isn't the sole reason this happened. It's also just mask off American racism and a vested interest in affirming negative stereotypes around Asian people. And this continued after 2004, more recently with the casting of Scarlett Johansson as a Japanese character in Ghost in the shell in the 2010s. In 2018, Teen Vogue interviewed Keith Chow, founder of the pop culture blog Nerds of Color.

[Jamie Loftus]

He says it's all connected. Chow tells Teen Vogue, it all results in the dehumanization of people of color and in the specific case of yellowface, in the dehumanization of Asian people.

[Clee Shearer]

And that's not to say that there were not impactful Asian stars that broke through in the west in the 20th century. Stars like Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan experienced global success. And movies that centered Asian characters and culture, like the Joy Luck Club, had a big moment upon its release in 1993. But that's not very much good representation and certainly isn't proportional to the Asian American population. That's one mainstream movie for an entire generation. While other Asian characters in popular movies were most often relegated to side roles to mainly white protagonists, and even more often embodied these racialized stereotypes. And if you've taken a media studies class, you might know where I'm going with this for Gen X, and that's none of my business due to my radiant youth, but for Gen X, One of the most prominent portrayals of an Asian man came in John Hughes's 1984 movie Sixteen Candles in the form of a character named Long Duck Dong. And not only was his character's name written as a joke by a white guy, this character embodied basically every cultural stereotype we've discussed so far. He is literally introduced with the sound of a gong repeatedly.

[Joanna Teplin]

What's happening, hot stuff?

[Clee Shearer]

He's a quote unquote good boy. A model minority stock character with an overemphasis on good behavior and academics.

[Jamie Loftus]

I love visiting with Grandma and Grandpa.

[Joanna Teplin]

And writing letters to parents and pushing lawn mowing machines so Grandpa's hyena don't get disturbed.

[Clee Shearer]

And later on, when he has a white girlfriend, it's presented as ridiculous.

[Joanna Teplin]

I've never been out with a boy before. Oh, me neither.

[Clee Shearer]

And maybe you saw this coming. But the actor you heard performing, Getty Watanabe, he's of Japanese descent, but he's from Utah. And the fact that he had to take this role on has everything to do with the kinds of parts that were available to Asian American actors At this time in a white dominated entertainment landscape, in front of and behind the scenes, there was very little imagination to see Asian men as anything but caricatures. Long Duck Dong is indisputably presented as the butt of the joke. And studies found that this happened more often than not throughout Hollywood's history. Here's our guest today, Nancy Wang Yin, talking about Long Duck Dong in an interview with NBC in 2021. Anything he said was something you laughed at, not with. He kind of defined Asian characters for decades. And this kind of representation makes a difference. In the early 2000s, the Geena Davis Institute on Gender and Media studied the top grossing films of the 2010s and how AAPI people were represented in them. And the study found that over half of of these characters were the butt of a joke. In the opinion of a number of Asian American writers in 2004, it's this long Duck Dong playbook that is being weaponized while portraying William Hung on reality tv. This is a trope specifically weaponized against East Asian men. And you can hear echoes of it in the way that William is spoken to at the peak of his fame.

[Jamie Loftus]

And how about the girls? Have you noticed a big difference with the attention from the girls? I noticed that I get a lot. I make a lot of friends in general, not just girls. Not just girls in friends in general, but there's a lot of girls, yeah. All right.

[Clee Shearer]

By 2004, around 13% of the American population were people of Asian descent. But the representation was still nowhere near proportional then or now. As recently as the late 2000 and tens, only 4% of speaking roles in Hollywood films came from Asian actors. And so this meant when an Asian person appeared on American tv, the way they were framed disproportionately mattered. Something that is entirely the fault of American media. And while William was often presented as unaware of the conversations around Asian representation taking place, of course that's bullshit. He was well aware and genuinely struggled with it. Here he is during his 2018 TED talk discussing why it was challenging to accept a record deal in the first place.

[Jamie Loftus]

Now, I know what you're thinking. How hard can this be? Take the money, fool. But for me, it wasn't easy at all. You see, I was aware that I was made the laughingstock for Asians on American Idol. In my heart, I felt like there were magnetic forces pulling me in different directions. But these forces gradually disappeared when I realized that perhaps I have the power to bring smiles to people's faces. Faces.

[Clee Shearer]

Because remember There was criticism of Williams success on American Idol coming from within the Asian activist community, citing the sting of feeling like these stereotypes were once again being lifted up by the American media for the purposes of mocking Asian men the same way they had with Long Duck Dong. One of the most influential critics was SF Gate writer Emil Guillermo in his piece William Racism or Magic from 2004.

[Jamie Loftus]

It wouldn't be so bad if we saw positive images of Asian American males in the media, but for the most part we've been invisible, and the images have usually come with martial arts enhancements. Bruce Lee's combative Persona has been the most virile and most enduring icon for Asian American males, but the stereotypes that predominate are the sinister and inscrutable, or ineffectual and effeminate. One thing that can be said for those who seek to exploit William Hung, he has not been asked to demonstrate any karate moves or threaten the American way of life. Hung doesn't see himself reinforcing stereotypes with the lame dancing and the accented rhythmlessness of it all. He's proud of his badness.

[Clee Shearer]

And Guillermo revisited this critique over a decade later. In 2016, when William Hung made a return guest appearance on Idol publishing, this time in the Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund, He Besides, here was.

[Jamie Loftus]

The all too willing Hung, glad to extend his 15 minutes of fame under the guise of good, clean fun, reveling in his accented, unmusical oddness. Only it wasn't all that fun, because it's not just Hung up there. Given our relative invisibility, we are still in a US society that believes if you've seen one hung, you've seen them all. Asian Americans, that is at 5% of our nation, around 20 million strong, with a population that is 2/3 immigrant, many with accented tongues, hearts and minds to trot. Hung out there as a joke in primetime is still offensive.

[Clee Shearer]

However, as Guillermo acknowledges in both of these pieces, there were also Asian American people that enjoyed and embraced William's Persona and message. The reaction to William Hung was not monolithic, then or now. So I was excited to speak with a media critic who had seen and reflected on Hung's journey from its beginning. And there's no one better than Nancy Wong Yun. We'd met before when she appeared on my other podcast, the Bechtel Cast Shout out, and she's wonderful. She's the author of Real Inequality, Hollywood Actors and Racism, and I was really interested to hear her thoughts on this 2004 wormhole. Here's our talk.

[Jamie Loftus]

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[Joanna Teplin]

I am Nancy Wong Yoon. I'm a sociologist and currently I'm also teaching ethnic studies. I write on Hollywood and representation, especially Asian Americans, but I write on representation in general and I've written a book called Real Hollywood Actors and Racism. I think about Asian American representation as an Asian American immigrant myself having come here when I was five and growing up here and understanding that there's a world out there even though Asian Americans are about 7, 8% of the population. Having grown up in Taiwan, I remember what it was like to see lots of lots of different kinds of different Asian Americans who look maybe similar to people who don't know Asians but are quite distinct and different and we have multitudes and so I think it's really weird to be in a country where, you know, people tend to lump us all together when we are quite distinct and different.

[Clee Shearer]

I hate to bring you back to 2004 but unfortunately that is my sacred duty. Do you remember this moment? How did you receive it at the time?

[Joanna Teplin]

So I think I was a little disturbed by the popularity of it at first because I think my instinct on why it why William was so popular was that because he had fit a pre existing stereotype of the kind of awkward nerdy Asian guy like Long Duck Dong from Sixteen Candles. You know, William himself is a real person, right? He is not a character no one invented him. He is himself, authentically himself. But I think the fact that, I mean, American Idol auditions was just part of so many American Idol episodes. And there's a lot of people who audition and are not good or are not, not. Not good, whatever, not up to par in terms of what a pop star is supposed to sound and look like. There's that, too. There's the kind of racialization of what American pop star should be. I think black and white usually are the, you know, winners predominantly of American Idol. Asians are really such a minority. And so here comes William, right, Who comes and becomes this phenomena. And I think a lot of Asian Americans were perplexed because he really fit into a stereotype that we wanted to distance ourselves from. The kind of. That Asians can't sing, can't dance, and are only nerdy. So he fit into what people thought of as Asian American. I think I was already in graduate school at the time studying Asian American representation, and thinking about it in that context was, okay, he's popular because he fits into a stereotype. Not because he is a stereotype necessarily, but. But what about, you know, all the Asian young folks who are auditioning who actually, you know, could sing and dance in a way that was, you know, conforming to pop music standards? They didn't seem to enjoy the same popularity. So he went viral for the wrong reason. That was what I thought at the time.

[Clee Shearer]

In 2004. What is Asian American representation in media like?

[Joanna Teplin]

Yeah, so there wasn't very much. I think Margaret Cho's All American Girl was a pretty big. I mean, it wasn't a huge show. I don't think everybody knew about it, but Asian Americans did. It was about her. Her family set in San Francisco. It was essentially one season and then canceled. And it did show Margaret as someone who was the antithesis of maybe Asian American stereotypes. She was very kind of rebellious. More quote, unquote, Americanized, more Westernized. There was racism. There was sexism that she experienced. She was told to be more Asian, which maybe, you know, in that time was thinking, be more like William Hung. I don't know. It's like, what does that even mean? Yeah, what does that even mean? Because she is definitely her. That was probably one of the few TV shows about Asian Americans. And then, of course, I mentioned Long Duck Dong, which was a John Hughes movie, and that that basically was a stereotype, that it was more akin to who William was. And I think that that was why people were pretty disturbed. But I also think. Yeah, I think it's because we had such a dearth of Asian American representation that anyone who goes viral or becomes popularized becomes a stand in. Of course, there was also Apu, who was South Asian, also a stereotype based on Peter Sellers performance in the party, which was a brown face performance. So this was the kind of. The representations were pretty bad. And of course, if we think about the predecessor to Long Duck Dong, played by Getty Wait, Nabe was essentially yellowface performances of Asians like Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany, who was also, you know, had buck teeth, was nerdy, was awkward, very emasculated. Unfortunately, William Hung, I think if you watch the audition, the judges, except for Paula Abdul, are laughing at him, and he becomes kind of a clown and a buffoon. But he's a real person, right? And I think that people are also drawn to his sincerity and his positivity and really kind of confidence. Despite the fact that he, you know, wasn't as skilled as maybe some of the other people who auditioned, he didn't seem to let it bother him. And I think that people were drawn to that. It's possible to be drawn to that and to the stereotypes that he invokes. Right. So it's like. It's complex. And I think that if he were to audition today, the post crazy rich Asians post everything everywhere at once, where we have someone like Ki Hui Kwan, who is. Who plays both kind of a endearing, awkward kind of person, but in another universe, he's like Wong Kar Wai cool with, you know, his tuxedo. I think William Hung today, wouldn't I. I wouldn't see him as problematic because we have so many more representations of Asian Americans that we can say, okay, well, William is a real person. He's. He's cool. You know, we. I know people like William, so it wasn't like a stereotype in the sense that someone like him. Many people like him exist. But, yeah, I think the fact that there was a dearth of representation back then made his stardom much more kind of cringy for those of us who didn't see a multitude of representations to balance out William's kind of stardom. I felt like William Hong fit into the model minority stereotype, something that we really wanted to push against. I think during that era, actually, I feel like we're always trying to push against that. So we definitely were cringing because he fit into the mono minority stereotype as well.

[Clee Shearer]

You can sort of feel the authorial hand presenting you with a stereotype that a lot of Western people are going to be familiar with and latch onto unquestioningly. And that is a problem when there's no other representation. In the 20 years that have passed, how has Asian American representation in Hollywood evolved?

[Joanna Teplin]

I think that there has been. There's always been independent Asian American filmmaking, even during the time and preceding the time of William Hung. But I think that only in recent years that Hollywood has elevated, I think, Asian American stories. More Minari and the Farewell, you know, Sundance movies now DD this year. So there's still a lot of independent movies, but I think it is because of. Of crazy rich Asians doing really well at the box office. People are more open and interested in more studios. So even, you know, even, yes, there have been so many more Asian American representation, but I think the majority of Americans are still unaware of those representations. It feels, at least for, I think for Asian Americans who want to see themselves, we can actually see ourselves much more. Like when I was growing up, I'm a little bit older than William, so I would have, you know, experienced similar things to him. And I never saw myself. I think it was the Joy Luck Club in high school was the first time I read the book, I saw the movie, and that was the first time I had ever seen myself. But it's not like the Joy Luck Club ushered in a whole golden era of lots and lots of representation. It wasn't until crazy rich Asians that we had another kind of epic movie, you know, that was a predominantly Asian American cast. And prior to this is again East Asian. Prior to Joy La Club, it was the Flower Drum Song, which was, you know, a movie in the. The 60s, right. So it's like you got the 60s, then the 90s, then 2019. I mean, this is like generational differences, one movie per generation, which is just really terrible. I also wanted to tell a story before I forget. So I was part of an Asian American watchdog organization called Mana, and they got a phone call that someone wanted to protest William Hung and Guy. Guy, who is the head of it.

[Clee Shearer]

2004.

[Joanna Teplin]

Yes, this is in 2004. And he had said to us who were part of the organization, he's like, we can't protest a real person.

[Clee Shearer]

Right.

[Joanna Teplin]

You can protest negative representations of Asian Americans, but you can't protest a real person. And that always sticks with me that William Hung is a real person. He's not. Not a stereotype. He's a real person. Right. And of course, you know, why they decided to highlight his audition and the way that he was maybe treated by the judges, you know, Although Paula Abdul, bless her heart, she was so encouraging and didn't treat him at all like a stereotype, you know, and used her kind of stardom and maybe, yeah, her lived experience to connect with William in a way that the other two judges didn't as much. Simon certainly was the worst. I mean, Simon's always terrible. He called William grotesque. And I think that he didn't unders. Well, maybe he did understand. But the weight of those words, I felt was there was racism in it, even if he didn't intend it that way. When you have so few Asian, East Asian contestants and you call him grotesque, I thought that was over. Over the line and yeah, and definitely racist. And I do like the fact that the other two judges really pushed back on that. The other two judges who happen to be people of color, pushed back on that because I think instinctively they knew that that's not okay to call, you know, a young man of color grotesque. Yeah, I do feel like, yeah, that audition, it revealed more about, I think, America's perception of Asian American Americans than William Hung himself. It was a kind of mirror onto US Racism against Asians, anti Asian racism. But he himself, as a real person, deserves to be who he is. So just because he wasn't bothered by it, it doesn't dismiss the fact that others were bothered by it because again, one Asian shouldn't have to speak for all Asian Americans.

[Jamie Loftus]

So.

[Joanna Teplin]

Because a lot of times people will be like, well, what's the problem? William Hong himself doesn't have a problem. He doesn't think it's racist or what. Again, because there's such a dearth of representation, he cannot speak for all Asian Americans who are perhaps being bothered by it because they themselves have experienced racism that was really painful.

[Clee Shearer]

Now, 20 years later, what can we take away from this moment in 2024?

[Joanna Teplin]

I appreciate reality shows because there are people that are represented on screen that we don't see in narrative film or television shows because those only come from the imaginations of a predominantly white male production team. Reality shows, you can't predict who's going to show up. Of course, you know, we have casting, and if you look at the Bachelor, you know, the Bachelorette, the first Asian American Bachelorette, and we have so few Asian male contestants, which I was concerned about. So we're still dealing with some of the same problem of scarcity. How Hollywood decides not to kind of show the multitudes of. Of Asian American men and women. Yet we have also YouTube and actually Wong Fu Productions came out with an Asian American Bachelor kind of spoof and actually invited some Asian American contestants. In the past. Asian American men and women, but especially Asian American men, have become celebrities in, on in the YouTube world, much more so than, I would say, Hollywood in terms of being able to create their own content week after week and show different kinds of representations. And I think Asian American men as hot, sexy, whether it's leads, whether it's in music, if we want to talk about music. K Pop has changed the climate of how people in the west perceive Asian American men because I think there's just a very, very small fandom of BTS.

[Clee Shearer]

In the US group of people.

[Joanna Teplin]

So I think that, yeah, the, the, the perception of East Asian men have changed, I think for entire generations. So young people coming up now, Gen Z, I think probably see Asian men in a completely different light than 2004. Looking at William Hung, right? I think William Hong probably represented what people thought of, of Asian men. There were, you know, those studies that showed, I think it was about, was it OkCupid or match that showed that Asian men were the least desirable on those dating sites. And I think that that perception has shifted because of K Pop, because of, I mean, crazy rich Asians. Jon M. Chu worked really hard to make sure that there were lots of hot Asian men on screen showing their abs off. It was very successful.

[Jamie Loftus]

Very.

[Joanna Teplin]

Yeah, I think that that perception has shifted, but it is very, very recent. We need more variation. Twenty years later, we can look back on Wu Yuheng and see his sweetness and see his sincerity and not just see him as a stereotype, but we can see those other real aspects of him. And that's actually when I, when I watched it again, you know, 20 years later today in preparation for this podcast, I did see those aspects of him. And I also noticed the racism of Simon Cowell. So it was like I was able to, I think when he came on screen and knowing that he was representing us, that's all I could see at that moment and feel really scared that, oh my gosh, this is another ding against us. But now I can see him for who he is and for who he was and then also contextualize him in a way that, you know, young Nancy back in 2004 was just more reactive. We all are protagonists of our own story, right? And so we are all the romantic leads of our own story. And I think that there are folks that look like Wim Hong, that look like Jimmy O. Yang, and the fact that we can have stories about their lives and them as heroes is progress.

[Clee Shearer]

Thank you so much. To Nancy. You can follow her work online and buy her book at the links in the description. And finally, when we come back, we take a look at William's lasting effect on reality television. The following ad is sponsored by Pets Best Insurance Services. Your pet is your bestie, your therapist, your preferred match.

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Welcome back to 16th minute. I personally believe that the connection between Jack Skellington and teenage mall culture should be studied. And today we're taking a closer look at the William hung phenomenon of 2004. When most people look back in the 2000s, they think of it as the peak of the reality TV genre because it was from Survivor in 2001 to Peak Jersey Shore in the late 2000s. For nearly the entire decade, reality shows were the top rated on tv. But why was this such a big moment? The simple answer is it's traditionally cheaper than scripted TV. And if the American Idol debut to 10 million people was any indication. It got the same or better numbers when it came to viewers and advertisers and as many hyper specific genre surges tend to do. It was also related to labor strikes throughout the 2000s. SAG, AFTRA, the actors union was on strike for 182 days during the year 2000, leaving the union averse industry to look anywhere else else for content. We see another bump in reality in the later 2000s for a similar reason. The WGA, the writers union went on strike then which led to the late aughts renaissance of shows like Jersey Shore and 16 and Pregnant. Of course, reality TV has remained popular and controversial in the years since. So I wanted to speak with someone who had been there through it all and could speak to Williams moment in the year since from inside the reality industry. And of course I wanted to talk to an editor. Steve Flack has been in the industry for a while and experienced every manner of ethical dilemma and massive media backlash that comes with working in the world of reality tv. You've seen his editing work on Real Housewives, say yes to the Dress and According to his IMDb page, something called My Husband's Not Gay. Here's our talk.

[Jamie Loftus]

Hi, my name is Steve Flack. I'm a video editor. Professional video editor, really. Been specializing in unscripted and reality for the last, oh God, 20 years. I started working in the industry in 2003 as an assistant. I was a full time editor by 2006 and I've been doing that pretty consistently ever since.

[Clee Shearer]

You've been in the industry for a while. It was it the preference to stay in New York that brought you into reality specifically.

[Jamie Loftus]

I think it was just desire to work to pay off my student loan situation. It's like I graduated film school and I wanted to get right to work and I fell into working in unscripted television because that's again, that was 90% of the industry in New York. Climbed through the ranks pretty quickly and I was pretty set. Also, I'll be honest, when I started in the industry, it was a little different. A lot more makeover makeover shows. Not as much through exploitation the way modern reality TV has become, but also as someone who grew up on Basic cable, on MTV, on VH1, on, you know, stuff like that, Comedy Central. I didn't really have a problem with it because it was stuff I was watching anyway. Like it's not foreign to me. Way I like to explain reality television editing is you have all of the positives of scripted with all the negatives of documentary. Basically, you're not. You're not beholden to the truth, but you also don't have any of the stories already fixed in the script. So therefore, you're making it kind of up based on what you have in the footage. So it's like being handed a puzzle and being told put it together, but not the way it's designed to be put together.

[Clee Shearer]

As an editor, it seems like you do have, like, a fair amount of. At least in my estimation, a fair amount of creative freedom about how the story is presented. But are you told like. Like try to shape it in this particular way? Does that approach on the producer side vary? How does that work?

[Jamie Loftus]

Usually you try and shape it the way the producers want at first, and you put it together and it makes sense, and then you present it to the network and they don't like it at all, and you have to do something else with it. Again, like I said, you're not beholden to the truth or the script. So therefore, everything is kind of malleable until it airs on television. Because 90% of the time, the people, the talent, are 100% aware. Aware that they're going to be messed with and shaped the way the producers want it, and they think they're in on it, and then they find out it airs and they disagree. Like you said, this is. This. This is mainly about William Hung, and William Hung was on season one of American Idol. It wasn't season one or season. It was season three. Yeah, it was season three. So by the time you get to season three, people know what the gig is like. It was one of those things, like, I enjoyed watching season one of American Idol as a college student, but it was one of the things, like, I couldn't get to season two because I felt like by then the jig was up. Like, you go to the auditions, you know you're going to get made fun of. The talent kind of knows going in, they're getting screwed with.

[Clee Shearer]

Based on my conversation with William, it was like a little bit of yes, a little bit of no. Like where? Yeah, by 2004, people who watch TV are familiar with the ways that these are shaped, but it did sound like, just from his account, that it does feel different when it happens to you. Where he is. Like, he was. Even though he was familiar with the cadence of even this specific show, he was like, oh, as an editor, when you have to shape a person, where do you start? What are your instincts? Because I know it's like second nature at this point.

[Jamie Loftus]

It is second Nature. I think a big thing for me is that they're not. I don't want to say they're not people, but they're not. Something like, especially in post production, an editor. Even if I'm working on a show with hosts and recurring characters, like when I worked on Housewives shows, I didn't know any of the housewives.

[Clee Shearer]

Sure.

[Jamie Loftus]

Just people on my TV screen. Like, you know, none of these people are ever something I have to deal with. I think a lot of it is just kind of giving the producers what they want. Things are going through so many hands. You don't have any ownership of anything. So even if you start something, you don't necessarily finish it. Like, I try and to the best of my abilities as a straight CIS white man, try and be as ethically correct.

[Clee Shearer]

Sure.

[Jamie Loftus]

That I'm aware of. You know, of course you have your own unspoken biases that you're just completely unaware of. But even if you put something in, someone comes down the line and changes it based on network notes, like there's. There's a level of complete non ownership to the editor, but at the same time realizing, like, this isn't my baby. This isn't a piece of art that's mine that I need to stick to. I don't want to say like, I'm a tool, but sometimes you are just a tool for the producers and for the editors. And if you're not going to give them what they want, they'll find another guy in the edit room, he'll do it. You have no idea where the notes are coming from and everything. Like when I did Housewives, I got notes from Andy Cohen. But then you also get a rounded notes from Andy Cohen's boyfriend at the time.

[Clee Shearer]

Oh, wow.

[Jamie Loftus]

Who wasn't hired or anything. He just got to like, give a passive notes because he watched him. With Andy, you're completely disconnected from so much that you're not exactly sure who's asking for what or what's what. Like I said, 95% of the people involved in unscripted reality television are. I don't want to say they're in on it, but they're at least aware of what they're getting into. Everything's kind of fair game.

[Clee Shearer]

It feels like based on what you've told me, it seems like you've worked on a wide range of unscripted too. How the approaches would vary on shows like Housewives, where people don't always come off well, but they're cast members. And it's like, it does seem like, like cast members versus contestants.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah, I mean it. People want their 15 minutes. A lot of times, you know, like that's the. I keep. People always ask me, where do you get these people? I'm like, there's a website. Do you know about reality wanted.com? it's like a dating website for reality television shows. You make a profile, you say the type of shows you'd be interested in being on, whether they're like makeover competition, whatever and casting. People just go through it looking for the next puck. I mean that's a 30 year old reference. But you know, like he's like one of the first reality TV show turned into celebrity type person. There's a, there's a good chunk of reality television that's just, hey, what's this movie or TV show and how do we make it real? Like Laguna beach was Doc or Housewives is Desperate Housewives.

[Clee Shearer]

In my mind, William Hung, while he does sort of come to prominence at the time where reality TV is somewhat understood, it feels like a million years ago where it's like he stood in line for 10 hours. There was no website component. I feel like the way that people interact with reality TV as contestants or as knowingly like was not quite there. So I would love to talk about the changes you have felt in the industry throughout your career.

[Jamie Loftus]

Big standout changes is Housewives and docusoaps where nothing is real. When I broke into the industry, it was a lot of, of, you know, home makeover, Makeover. I did what not to wear I did while you were out, which was like kind of a companion piece to Trading Spaces, which everyone really was aware of.

[Clee Shearer]

Like I remember all of these.

[Jamie Loftus]

Yeah, MTV always had, you know, real worlds and whatever. Then the Housewives kind of changed everything. I feel like Housewife style shows were like, there's literally not a real thing about them. The stories are fake, the situations are fake, every single thing is not real. I mean, look, reality television has a lot in common with another one of my hobbies, which is professional wrestling. Like, you know about the concept of kayfabe, right?

[Clee Shearer]

Of course, yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Loftus]

I mean it's all kayfabe, reality television, professional wrestling, politics, it's all the same thing. Speaking of not being beholden to the truth, and this is where I have the conversation a lot with documentary editors. Are you, are you aware of the term Frankenbite?

[Clee Shearer]

No.

[Jamie Loftus]

No. You're not aware of the term frank invite?

[Clee Shearer]

No. Educate me.

[Jamie Loftus]

So it's one of the key things in reality. Editor's toolkit is The Frankenbite, which is basically, if they say it on camera, every word is available to be used to be recut into any way to make them say whatever they want.

[Clee Shearer]

Oh, oh.

[Jamie Loftus]

I once went into a gig, started telling people, like, I don't Frankenbite for ethical reasons. And people freaked out and I'm like, no, wait, it holds on. Oh, the, the most, the most famous one is it's not holding up in court. Is the jinx. The famous confession, right? Confession is a Frankenbite. Look it up. Look, I'll be honest with you. If I'm. If I'm an editor and I'm working on a show and I have a guy admit to murder on television, I don't hold it for the premiere, the season finale episode, I go to the cops. They didn't go to the cops because he said something like, oh, what did I do? I I. What are they going to say? That I killed them all? They cut out like a bunch of words and say, oh, this is his confession. You go back to the raw footage, you listen to what he says, and it's like, well, he didn't actually say he did it. He said a bunch of other stuff and they manipulated it. The changes, the whole true crime docudramas things where they're just completely unethical. They're trying to edit things in the style of, like, reality television, but make documentaries. I'm like, that's not how you make a documentary. Documentaries don't have cliffhangers every week. Documentaries don't say, tune in for more. You just make your statement and you move on. They're not ethical.

[Clee Shearer]

That is. Wow. As a former jinx head, that is. I feel like such a dumbass.

[Jamie Loftus]

Just bring it back to the Frankenbine. This brings in the future of, like, AI is now, like, you can make people say whatever they want. Because the whole drawback to AI was that it's not perfect. Like, if you really, if you really critically listen, you're like, oh, this doesn't sound right. But, like, listen to most Frankenbites, they don't sound right anyway, way. So it's. Now you're kind of beholden to nothing.

[Clee Shearer]

I mean, I think, like, reflecting on the William Hung story, I do feel like the way that it, like his narrative was presented was to be humiliating, was to be like, oh, this guy bombs. Let's edit it to make it look more humiliating than it even was at the time. Based on, you know, William Hung's account seems to be like a very intensely edited version of, of something that happened versus what you're describing, which is like it doesn't even need to have happened to be aired. Part of what I find really interesting about William Hung's story is that it happens at a time where TV and the Internet are starting to be in more regular conversation with one another. This was still wasn't a time where you could vote for American Idol online. But you know, when William Hung was on tv, a lot of the reason it seems like he kept being brought back was, was because there were like forum posts about him and there were online petitions to like bring William back. There was the sort of inklings of like, what happens now in the space of two hours, like you're saying happened over the course of two weeks in your industry. Has the way that the Internet interacts with unscripted TV shifted? Do they feel more in conversation with each other?

[Jamie Loftus]

It just feels like endless charm, like, and the people who came to fame on it, the housewives, the Kardashians, are just trying to like, hold whatever they have for as long as possible because they've made it a lifestyle, a career and they don't know what else to do.

[Clee Shearer]

Thank you so much to Steve Flack for offering his experience in the industry and you can follow him at the links in the description. And here we are at the end of our journey with our boy William. William Hung is mainly discussed today as a relic of pop culture, one who inspired conversation that ranged far beyond his first 15 minutes. You see William become a focus of, and by some people's standards, a perpetrator of cultural stereotypes. But when you talk to the guy, he was just having fun and capitalizing on this moment. It is not fair at all that his very existence was politicized from every angle. But as we see time and time again, that's often the nature of capitalizing on your moment in America. And in spite of the road bumps along the way, William has remained adamantly himself. Something that is extremely difficult to do with 20 years of public and Internet opinions being hurled at you. It's pretty amazing. Now if we could just get him to stop working for the LA County County Sheriff's Department. William Hung, your 16th minute ends now. Thank you so much for listening to this two part series. I really hope you enjoyed listening as much as I enjoyed researching it. And again, a lot of what we've talked about in these episodes truly only scratches the surface. So please grab yourself a copy of Nancy Wang Yin's book Real Inequality at the link in the description. And for your moment of fun. Here's my full rendition of the national anthem in 2002. See you next week. Ship 16th Minute is a production of Cool Zone Media and iHeartRadio. It is written, hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus. Our executive producers are Sophie Lichterman and Robert Evans. The Amazing Ian Johnson is our Supervising Producer and our editor. Our theme song is by Sad13. Voice acting is from Grant Crater and Pet shout outs to our dog producer Anderson, My cat Cats Flea and Casper and my pet rock bird who will outlive us all. Bye With Kroger Brand products you can get all of your favorite things this holiday season. Because our proven quality products come at exceptionally low prices and with a money back quality guarantee, every dish is sure to be a favorite. From sweet sugar cookies and holiday ham to that perfect slice of pie. Whether you shop, delivery, pickup or in store, Kroger Brand has all your favorite things. Kroger Fresh for everyone.

[Jamie Loftus]

Hey there, it's Scott Patterson from I Am all in again Podcast Life Short Talk Fast Stream Gilmore Girls on Hulu that's right, grab your coffee and get cozy because all seven seasons of Gilmore Girl Girls are now on Hulu. Stream all the witty, banner, heartwarming moments and awkward Friday night dinners with Lorelei, Rory and the eclectic mix of characters. Whether you're rewatching or going Gilmore for the first time, Hulu has you covered. It's a show. It's a lifestyle. It's now streaming on Hulu. Have you ever considered becoming a surrogate.

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[Jamie Loftus]

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[Clee Shearer]

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[Clee Shearer]

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[Jamie Loftus]

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[Clee Shearer]

BET Original Series D? Ara from Detroit from executive producer Kenya Barris and BET Studios comes what Variety calls a PI Drama with flair. Meet Dara Brickland, a public school teacher turned amateur private eye after the disappearance of a very hot date.

[Jamie Loftus]

With the help of her friends and.

[Clee Shearer]

Even her ex husband, D? Ara's on a mission to find her missing lover.

[Jamie Loftus]

D?

[Clee Shearer]

Ara from Detroit is now on Bet.

[Joanna Teplin]

Wednesdays at 109 Central, Thursday on ABC. Get ready to move that bus.

[Clee Shearer]

The beloved series Extreme Makeover Home Edition is making a triumphant return to kick.

[Joanna Teplin]

Off the new year. Join the makeover mavens Joanna, Teplin and.

[Clee Shearer]

Cleish here as they hit the road on a mission to transform lives of deserving families. They have just four days to rally communities, demolish old homes and rebuild not.

[Joanna Teplin]

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[Clee Shearer]

Extreme Makeover Home Edition premieres Thursday at.

[Joanna Teplin]

8.7Central on ABC and will be available.

[Clee Shearer]

To stream next day on Hulu.