← Skin Anarchy
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Foreign.
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Welcome back to another episode of Skin Anarchy. I'm super excited about our guest today. We are interviewing this brand again, which is wonderful for me because I am a huge fan of their products, and I think a lot of you might have heard of them. I think right now is a very exciting time in skincare because we're really bridging the gap between true regenerative medicine, the regenerative principles in that field of medicine, and what we are bringing over, you know, and I feel like this brand is really leading the way, you know, in that space. So without further ado, please welcome back Keith o', Brien, who is the CEO of Hydrenity. Welcome, Keith. I'm so excited to chat with you today.
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A
No, I'm excited. Always a pleasure talking to you. So thank you. Thank you for. Thank you for the opportunity.
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B
Oh, no, I'm so excited. I can't wait to dive in. And I would love to really kind of talk about what Hydrenity is really doing, because I think what you're bringing to the space of skin care is so novel in so many ways. You know, the products are. They speak for themselves. Honestly, I think anyone in the audience, if you have tried them, you guys know what I'm talking about. And I want to start there. Keith, you know, I want to talk about hydrinity and where it began, because the foundation is in wound care. So I want you to really talk to us about how, you know, now with the Encore body hydrator and other innovations, you know, you're really applying these regenerative principles to full body care. Let's talk about that.
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A
Yeah, no, we. We did. I tell everybody all the time it was never my goal to start an aesthetics company or a skincare company.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Our background is regenerative medicine, wound care, spine surgery, oncology. But when we saw how well that are, even pre hydranity products help compromise skin, the light bulb just went off and said, you know what? There's a role for this in skincare because the same principles apply. You need rapid. You need rapid healing. Because if you think about wound care in wound care, in my previous life, people had things happen to them. Well, we actually inflict wounds on people in aesthetics now, so. But the same principles apply. You have. They need to heal fast. They want to know what their downtime is, how do you balance their pH? How do you manage that inflammation? And I do think that we've been very fortunate because a lot of the principles that are now being applied to in aesthetics, we've got years and Years of experience with, with that. And I do think that kind of gives us a leg up that and not growing up in this industry, which I love now. And I don't know what took me so long to get here, but we're not bound by the same rules as ever. Well, we've always done it this way. Well, we get to look at things fresh and different and we get to try things that I think other people are not willing to do. And I do think that gives us, it gives us an advantage because we're not encumbered by the past right now.
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B
What prompted you guys to shift from like, you know, facial skin care to the whole body? I really want you to speak on this a little bit.
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A
Yeah, we, I wouldn't say we shifted, doctor but there's such a need in that. And so here's the body is, it's 90% below the neck is as of skin. The market kind of dictated it too, with the GLPs and the body contouring and that. There was really no good product out there that I thought satisfied, that worked well with those. And so we had requests from our partners. We also had an internal. I had had one of my favorite people that works at the company, she goes, you need a body product because I'm tired of having to buy, renew and put it all over my body. And, and so we laugh about it, but it, but it's true. And so that's where we, that's where we started because the body's different. And what I noticed with a lot of other body products is they were taking the same facial and just putting it in a bigger bottle. Well, you can't, you know, you can't do that. The body skin is four times as thick. It's got slower turnover, turnovers there 28 plus days, not 14. There's fewer sebaceous glands. And so you really, really have to look at that different. You have to pick ingredients that penetrate down to the dermal layer. Because you've heard me say this before, is true healing and true regeneration of the skin only happens at the dermal layer.
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B
Right.
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A
And it just, there was a need there. And I knew with our delivery system, with our low molecular weight. Ha. That we could do it and we could do it really well. And the results have been, they've, they've been, they've been phenomenal. The other thing that I really wanted to focus on was really ramping this up with a lot of antioxidants because that's reactive stress hits, that hits the body Worse than it does the face. For. For what? For whatever reason. The other thing that we were able to do is we were up the dose of vitamin C. With your skin being thicker, you don't get the side effects, you don't get the irritate. It's less sensitive. So you're able, you're able to play with like, kakadu plums, my favorite vitamin C and I. And we're able to put more of that in, in the encore, the body product than any other product on the market. Because it's. The skin can tolerate the body skin can tolerate it. And it actually, it soaks it in and it does really well. And so we just. There was an opportunity, the market was screaming for, and our customers were. And we said, you know what? We think we can, we can fix this problem.
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B
Yeah, no. You know, I really love the way you are approaching body care and just talking about it, because I want to take a minute and really kind of for our listeners, you know, shine a light on this, because when we are looking into the landscape of body care products right now. Right. I see a lot of the same mistakes that people were making with that whole natural beauty phenomena that happened with facial skincare where everybody was using, like, shea butter and like. No, we were just making things in the kitchen. And like, you know, there's a lot. There's a lot.
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A
There's a lot of that going on. Yes.
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B
Yeah. And it's kind of scary to me because I'm like, I don't want us to walk down the same road that we've been down and then find out that people are getting these full body reactions happening and, you know, that whole thing. So that's where I feel like hydrenides take on this is truly novel because, I mean, everything you're describing, the body skin is something I think as consumers, we need to understand that there is a real need here, just like there is with our facial skin. And if we don't approach it from the same scientific, rigorous, and this, like, lens of truly, let's put the science first. Let's figure out what ingredients really work in what concentrations, we're never going to see improvement. So I really love. I wanted to take a minute and say that for our listeners because it's important, you know, for us to highlight. But, you know, you, you often talk about skin care, you know, Keith, as a regenerative care. Right. And that's really important. I mean, can you talk to us about that? In what ways are you seeing concepts from like, oncology Wound repair, all of those things really influence the future of esthetics and skin health, particularly for the body care side.
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A
You know, what we noticed before in wound care is that we would, we were doing the right things, but we weren't getting great clinical results. And then David Armstrong at USA in California, he came out and he said if you, if your PH is not right, you're not going to. Ph is one thing. And then I'll talk about my other favorite topic here. If your PH is not balanced, your wound's not going to heal.
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B
Yeah.
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And you can just, you can transfer and you can take out the word wound and you can put skin, your skin is not going to thrive if it's, if your PH is not balanced. So what we do, one of our key things is every hydrenity product balances pH. And so it has to. The other thing is inflammation. Prolonged inflammation is bad for your gut, it's bad for your joints, and it's terrible for your skin. So what we do is every hydrating product is anti inflammatory. So those are key principles that other medical disciplines look to. And so what we try to do is implement those into, into aesthetics. Inflammation in itself is not bad. It is needed in the body. It's the body's natural response. But prolonged inflammation is terrible because then you never get to cellular proliferation and prolonged information increases scarring. It does a lot of negative things. And so what you have to do is you have to modulate that inflammation. And that's what we try to do with every hydranity product is, you know, when we come up with our, with our formulation, because it's not ingredients, it's formulation that really matters more than ingredients. And we do our clinical testing, but part of that clinical testing is the test to see how much the inflammation and the PH balances is. And then after that, then we can work on the other, the other parts of the product. But those are, those are critical.
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B
From.
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What you have in regenerative medicine. And especially if you look at oncology, inflammation is terrible because we could go down and talk about CD Ram 44 and how inflammation causes cancer and that. So inflammation is just bad. And so what we try to do is we fight it every day.
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B
Yeah, no, that's, I think that's brilliant. I think that's the real inflammation is such an interesting area to understand in science. Right. Because it's really at the heart of everything. And I think that at the end of the day, for when it comes to body care, this is something that's very intriguing for Me, because when you think about something like sun exposure, right, you take something like being out in the sun, especially right now in the summertime, everyone's enjoying being outdoors. We are so focused on skin care and like application of spf and that's wonderful. But then you still don't really address any of the trauma that takes place from something like that. And so when you look at, you look deeper, inflammation becomes very central to that conversation, you know, and so being able to understand that like, you know, when there's an insult, it induces inflammation which then lasts and then you have to maintain your ability to drive that inflammatory, you know, cascade in the right direction in your body. That is, I think where, you know, true innovation can happen in this space is when people can get a grasp on that, you know. So that's very fascinating what you said. I think it's very, very critical. I want to ask about how you're maintaining this whole biotechnology tech integrity piece, you know, while you're making the experience also very sensorial, very retail worthy for, for patients when it comes to this, the whole body care space.
- [11:36]
A
Yeah, no, we take, we take great pride in that because I don't think you have to choose one or the other. We often say inside the organization that we, we're at the intersection of where science meets luxury. And there are some brands that are luxury is, is their, their game. Not sure clinically it does anything. And then there are some brands, their science is really, really good. But patients and clients don't like it. And so we always, we always start with efficacy first. It has to work. If it doesn't work, we're not going to put the hydrenity H on it. That's the first thing. Patient safety is right there. But form fit and function is a very close third because when people need to experience something, things don't happen in a, in a day, it takes a couple weeks. They need to want to apply this. And so we work really hard on our form fit function. We don't put perfumes in ours, we don't put dyes. We don't add things that we don't need because I don't know if you like coconut or, or vanilla. The best way to do it is not to have any scent. And so in what I found in this industry, most time that things have a smell, they're trying to cover something up or if they have, if they had added scent. I think you can have both. And we, and we take great, great pride in that because I will tell you, I get That a lot when people use our product the first time, it's like, oh, that. That's different. Yeah, so we were. And so that's. That's a. That's a big part of what. Of what we do is. And that's the reason people tell us all the time, hey, we're obsessed with your brand because it feels so. It just feels good. I. I look forward to putting it on, not just for what it does, but how it feels. And you can do both, and it's a little extra work and you use better ingredients and you do things the right way. But when we get the feedback that we get, it's absolutely worth it.
- [13:48]
B
Yeah, no, I think that that's really. I like what you said about, you know, fragrance especially. I think that you're really. You're hitting nail the head there, you know, because I find it to be very interesting. Why? You know, again, that conversation about how I feel like people are making it in the kitchen with body care these days, you know, I think it's very, very transparent for you to say that, because, you know, I think consumers kind of have this mindset of if it's body care, it's got to smell a certain way. You know, we're treating it almost like a fragrance product, when in reality, that's not at all how we should be approaching it. I think fragrance has its place. You should be able to layer fragrances on top of body care that. You know what I mean? Like, it helps because, hey, it's going to balance your ph, which is automatically going to make your fragrance smell better. You know, that's just how fragrance works. If you're spraying perfume on imbalanced pH, it's not going to smell the same it does out the bottle. That's how it is, you know, So I think that conversation is such. It goes so much deeper, and I think it really does actually open up a whole different category. Right in the body care space is when you understand that, especially for consumers, because then you can separate, you know, you can. You can start figuring out that, no, this isn't the same thing as fragrance. You know, my body lotion doesn't have to have, like, no crazy smell to it.
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Yeah, no, I don't want it to our body product. It's a therapeutic product.
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B
Yeah.
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I mean, it. It hydrates, it fights off the free radicals. But there's also, with some of our ingredients, there's some type. There's tightening that goes on, and it's that. That effect. And if you use it, we've Got great before and after pictures where people are using it and it's you, you can absolutely. The appearance of even stretch marks now it's not going to cure those, but the appearance of it. And I've seen some pictures that I would not have had believed before they start. We knew our ingredients would help with that. But it's, it's a therapeutic. I don't, I don't want to compete with your perfume or your, or what you use in the shower or so if you like your perfume, I don't want my body product to overpower that. It's, that's, that's what you choose, right?
- [16:02]
B
No, absolutely. I completely agree. I think it's so. There's so much that can be done with the, you know, really good products for body. It's crazy to think about, you know, the. But I want to talk about, you know, this really like this idea of the fact that, you know, I think estheticians are now starting to realize that they need to get behind better protocols. You know, I think a lot of them are being very proactive in that way. You know, they don't just push products anymore. They're more so about what can we really do to like make sure our practice is more refined? You know, I want to like what are your, your take on that, you know, in hydrenity's role in enabling providers to move away from this whole marketing hype and you know, all of that towards more truly evidence based practice.
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Yeah, I, I love protocols.
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B
Yeah.
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That are very, that are patient specific. So you start with certain things so you, you know, you have to cleanse your face and you know, you have to, have to clean it. But then, But I'm also. We pride ourselves on skinny and skinny. I don't believe in 12 step protocols because some of those, they're just not being effective. But if you can utilize two to three to four products.
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B
Yeah.
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And you get the results that you, that you need. That's, that's beautiful. And so all I tell everybody is trust the data, follow the science, make sure that the data that you're seeing is clinically relevant and it's going to do what it says and trust yourself, use your experience. It's. I will tell you, we have some wonderful estheticians out there that do this every day. They know what's going to work. And you have to remember when we started, we only started with three SKUs. It's amazing how fast we've grown. So when we develop those, we develop those to be able to use to utilize within protocols and not to have one itself, but just to drop the hydrenity. They layer really well, they play well with others is how we say it. And it just makes the other, the other products better. And that's, and that's what you can get. You can get real synergy if you use multiple products that treat different things and have different ingredients. And I, I do. I think, I think that's a trend that's not going to stop when, you know, going away, not destroying the skin barrier, but using 2, 3, 4 products to get the results that you want, that you use, that you use every day or twice a day. It's. That's just good. Somebody asked me the other day, what's the secret to good skin? I said, it's just consistent. Whatever you use, just be consistent. Use it morning and night and try to do it every, every day. If you're consistent, that's the best thing you can do, right?
- [18:58]
B
Absolutely. No, I agree with that. I think that's. That's spot on. You know, I think that's the hardest part. But you know, what's interesting is I know we keep talking about body care, about hydranity. By the way, Forever Listening has a lot of really great products, guys, for Faith, for facial skin care. I mean, everything is just. It hits home. So check out the whole brand. But I know I keep harping on body care, but you know why? It's because of everything you're saying here. Because I think that when it comes to body, we have a real opportunity. I feel like, you know, and especially a brand like yours, you know, paving the way. I mean, there's such an opportunity here to help consumers create truly healthy skin habits. You know, like when it comes to, like when you get out of a shower or when you're applying any body care product, it's a daily ritual. You do it every day, you know, and you don't think about what am I really putting on. So if you had the right products and you were doing that every day, now imagine what your skin would look like 90 days. Because the body skin, like you had mentioned this, Keith, it's very different. It's got a whole different, you know, you're working with more layers, you're working with a physiology. So the way that it's going to respond is going to be very different than how facial skin response because it's thinner, you know, so people are. Maybe you're not experiencing things as profound as maybe facial skin, right? When you get the thinning or you get really Deep wrinkles, maybe earlier in life. You don't really see that with body as, as, you know, early. So you have, I think a bigger window to intervene and build these healthy habits so that you can really get to a point when you age that you, you know, you notice like, wow, I really aged beautifully because I've been on this consistent regimen, you know, for X amount of years. I think there's a huge space there, you know, potential there.
- [20:40]
A
Yeah, no, and, and I, and I, I, I think you're right. A lot of people use products, but I would say it's just as important to use medical grade. Sk. Body is, it is your face. It's, everybody says it, but skin is, it's your largest organ. You need healthy skin to, to help fight off disease and just, and aging. Just. There is so much environmental pollution these days that your skin needs, it needs to be healthy to fight that. It really does.
- [21:12]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Now I want to dive in because I know you guys are coming out something new and I want to talk all about that and I would love for you to share your insights into what, what, what is happening. What's the newness coming out for the Hydrenity?
- [21:26]
A
No, I am so, I'm so excited about, about this. We've been working on this product for over two years now and I really do think that hydrenity is going to deliver on the promise of Virginia medicine. So we have a new product that we're going to, that we're going to launch on September, September 8th. And it's a, it's going to become the new gold standard in retinol therapy. It's, it's going to be, it's the first in. So it's true innovation in that therapy is the first hydrating retinol. It's the first retinol encapsulated by a biomimetic exosome. It's the first retinol that doesn't need titration. It works on fine lines, wrinkles, tone, texture, which is what you would expect it to do. Yeah, but the clinical thing that blew me away in a 12 week study is that there was a 58% reduction in erythema. Most retinol products cause redness and that this actually decreases it. So it's, it's just, it's triple therapy. So you, you have your retinol, which is, which is the standard in, in skin care. This is a retinol, not even a, a retinal, not a retinol. So you're that one step closer. It's 10 times more potent but there's no titration. You use it from day one Fitzpatrick. We studied one through six. We had zero dropouts in it. And here's the other thing. There was a 44% increase in hydration at the two week mark. So what we did is everybody that we put on it, we took a digital skin analyzer someplace on the skin, we tested their baseline and then two weeks later we tested everybody and the average was 4,44% increase. It does everything that a retinol supposed to plus some. We have our HA in there so that's why it's so hydrated. Super amount of Ha. We've got some other ingredients in there, but this, the exosome therapy delivers it down to the dermal layer.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Stratum basale where it needs to be stimulates collagen and elastic does everything. So the retinol gets what's supposed to. It doesn't get oxidized, it doesn't, doesn't denigrate. It's just, it stays pure in its form and it's really potent and the results are, are fantastic. And again this is the first. And I know I'm foam, I'm just, I'm so, I'm just excited. I'm just so excited about this because there hasn't really been any real true innovation in this what I consider in the retinoid therapy in almost 10 years now.
- [24:30]
B
Absolutely. And you know what's. It's very interesting what you said that you know, this doesn't cause that irritation because I won't lie to you for. You know, I hopped off the retinol bandwagon because of that reason because I had these conversations with dermatologists and I, I remember getting very heated about it, you know, because I was like well I can't, I will never back of anything, you know that causes actual trauma before it heals. Like that kind of thing. And so this is huge if you're able to do that. Yeah, that's huge.
- [25:03]
A
Yeah, no it's. We're so excited about this because it just daily use without titration able. It, it does every, it just takes, it takes away the reason that people don't, don't use retinols. We've got over 55 patients either have finished or in clinical trials right now. We've had zero dropouts because of side effects. So we had a 20 patient IRB study study done. We had another 20 patient multi center place done. We're treating with Acne patients Fitzpatrick's 5 and 6, we're getting great results in those and those are super, super hard to treat. The fits, ones and twos that usually can't tolerate a retinol having great results with, with, with that. So it's, it is actually true, true innovation. And we've been able to, and that's, and that's why I'm excited about where we're going. Because exosomes have, they've been out there for a few years, years and there's a couple of companies that some are doing it pretty good. But with this one, it is so stable and that's been the problem in, in the past. Is this the stability of the exosomes?
- [26:26]
B
Exactly. Yeah.
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A
But this is stable. Being a biomimetic, everyone is the same. And an exosome, I know, you know this, it's a thousand times smaller than a stem cell. So it goes exactly where it's supposed to go. And when you manufacture your own, every one of those is the same. So when, so when you put a million exosomes in a bottle, it's actually more than that. We will say it's a million. When you put that, if every one of them is the same, then you know, you got pure, potent and precise therapy. Everybody gets the same and it just, you don't have to guess what you're getting. That's, that's huge. Yeah, that's really huge. It's going to be, like I said, I'm excited. I've been doing this, not skincare, but in medicine for 30 years and launched 40 products. This may be the one I'm the most excited about because it is just so different than anything else out there on the market.
- [27:25]
B
That's incredibly exciting. That's incredibly, I mean that's really kind of, that's at the intersection of outdated pharmaceuticals and new age true biotech backed products for dermal health. That is huge. I mean, I can't applaud you enough for taking that on because I think that, you know, it was sad for me as both a physician and a scientist, also a consumer, to see something like retinol kind of start going out the door. You know what I mean? Like people were starting to get rid of it and I don't, I never felt like we had to do that. I just always felt like there's got to be a better way, you know what I mean, to bring those benefits back and just do them in a way that it's going to help. And this sounds exactly like that. So I'm Very excited to see that you're doing this. And, you know, everybody listening. This is. That's huge. You know, if any of, you know, retinol is such a pain point for most consumers. It causes so much irritation. It. It really kind of can backfire, you know, if you don't have the right skin type. So this is really huge. I'd be very excited to see how many, you know, derm offices and med clinics would. Are going to get behind this, because, I mean, this could revolutionize the way that we suggest products, you know, to people. And also, like, you know, when retinol first came out and when it first started getting prescribed and all of the derms are backing it, and everybody was backing it because it has so much potential. You know, it does so much good stuff that we need to bring that back, but in a. In a better way. So that's. That's very exciting. I'm very excited. I'm sure you can tell.
- [28:55]
A
No, no, it's. It. It is because retinol therapy, it's. They're the only one that's recognized by the fda is really for fine lines and wrinkles. And it is so well studied. It's. It works. Nobody denies that it works. It's the baggage that it carries with it. And some work. And some work better. Better than others. So if you get something number one, that's more efficacious but doesn't cause the side effects, plus, it also hydrates your. Hydrates your skin, decreases the redness. So you're looking at. It's. We know it's good for fine lines. We know it's good for acne patients. Well, now with the erythema being rosacea patients, there are. It's. It is. We call it the new goals. We're Rose gold is one of our colors. So we call this kind of the new. The new gold standard. One of. One of the physicians that did. Did the study with it was on our advisory board. He just kept saying that this is the new go. The gold standard. And so. And we, we have. Can I tell the name of it?
- [30:03]
B
Yeah, of course. Please.
- [30:04]
A
No. So what we did is because it's a retinal and it's an exosome, so the name of it is reticent. Oh, so it's. So it's a combination. So it's a combination and it's really three. But I couldn't figure out a clever way to get our hyaluronic acid in there. So you get triple therapy in. In one, in one product.
- [30:27]
B
Wow, that's really cool that you did that because, you know, it's interesting that you combined it with certain things because hydration is one of the biggest things. There's a lot of peeling, there's a lot of dry skin. There's a lot of things happening when you're using retinol. So you do need that hydration support, you need that antioxidant support. You need a lot of things. Right. The skin needs that extra kind of boost, you know, during the regenerative process that it's going through. So, yeah, this is, this is very exciting. I'm excited about.
- [30:56]
A
It is, it is, it is so cool. We, we were able to, to create the biomimetic exosome with a nice lipid layer. We, we put centella in there also, which is a plant that's been around for thousands of years. Medicinal purposes all over the world. Yeah. So that's in the exosome, but then in the very center, the retinol is encapsulated. And so that way it does, it doesn't break down. So just think of that as the, you have, you have the exosome, but then you have the ha. That even protects that when it's going. So the ha protects the exosome, the exosome protects the retinol, and then they all do their, they all do their job.
- [31:43]
B
Wow, I love that. I really, I can't wait to try it. This is going to be huge. You know, and I think that everybody out there, if you guys, if you've already tried Hydrenady's products, I mean, you already know what you're getting. You're getting amazing quality, but that's the kind of brand that I want to see, you know, get behind this, because I, at the end of the day, a lot of people are claiming exosome stuff right now, and I'm, I don't get me wrong, I'm here for the science. You know, I love science and I, I love stem cell science. And, and, you know, exosomes are great, but you have to know how to utilize them. You really do. And that's the biggest, I think white space in this. You know, this whole category is that people don't know how to be applying this to skin care. You know, like, it's not enough to just say we have exosomes. You need to have a purpose of why they're there and what they're doing. Because they're essentially their nano size, but they're really messenger molecules. That's what they are yeah, you know, so, so that's very, very cool. But no, Keith, thank you so much. It's always such a pleasure to chat with you. And I'm just so excited about the new innovation coming out and, and all the wonderful products. I, I can't recommend them enough, I think. I was on Tick Tock just the other day and I literally dropped your. Your products in the, in the comments because I was like, you guys need to check out Hydrenity. I don't know what you're doing. Let's just go check out the brand.
- [32:59]
A
So I guess. I guess I need to update my TikTok game. I'm not really good on that. Yeah, get over there and tell them. I don't know.
- [33:05]
B
So I don't know. I think we're. You and I are probably more so in the same boat than we realize. I'm just on there for market research. You know, I'm always finding myself commenting. But no, it's such a great brand and I think what you're creating is leading the way, especially now. I know longevity skin care is buzzing. I think when I personally think of longevity skin care, I think of products such as what Hydrenity is making something that's going to be tried and true and people can come back to over and over and over again, you know, and see results at the end of the day. So I can't, you know, applaud you enough for doing that. And I love the brand. So thank you for innovating continuously, you know.
- [33:40]
A
Thank you. It's, it's. It really is fun to come up with new things. And our goal is to. Is to elevate the industry and make, make and bring some of these cool technologies over to aesthetics. It's. No, it's, it's, it's fun. We love what we do. We get up every day and we were driven by innovation, but we're guided. We're guided by our partners and, and, and our clients and our patients. We try to do what's right by them, get them what they need in a very innovative way. And if we do that, then everybody wins. We win. As an organization. We win personally, our satisfaction. But, you know, our partners and our. And their clients win. And so I think you can have, you can have a win, win, win if you just. If you focus on the right things.
- [34:33]
B
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much. Hey, guys. So I hope you love that episode. Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast. Platform. We are available on so many different platforms. So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go, hit subscribe. You know you'll be immediately notified when we publish new episodes. This way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host. And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of. Also, make sure to give us a follow on all of our social media outlets. We're available on Instagram, TikTok X, you name it, we're there. We also have a blog on Medium, so if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium. We publish some really great articles on there that do deeper dives than just what's available on the podcast. And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more. We go above and beyond with our research and making sure we're bringing you information that you usually probably won't hear about in other outlets. So check us out, leave us a comment, leave us a review, and we'll be back next time with another episode. Thank you.