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- [00:01]
A
Hey, guys. Welcome to a very special episode of Skin Anarchy. In this episode, we're going to be spotlighting the CEW 2025 Innovator Awards. These awards are incredibly meaningful because they are really celebrating the women that are behind the scenes and making beauty happen on every level. These are the scientists, the architects of what we consider to be true beauty innovation. And so I cannot wait to dive in and to begin the episode. Please welcome back the president of cew, Ilana Drill Cipher. And with her today is Andrea Nagel, who is a seasoned beauty industry content executive and currently serving as Chief Content Officer at cew. Welcome, Elana. Andrea. I'm so excited to dive into these awards and understand them because it is such an important celebration and I can't wait to learn more about it. Andrea, I would love to start and ask you a question because I really want our listeners to grasp, you know, the. The true meaning and the relevance of the Innovate Innovator Award. So let's start at the beginning. What was the gap in the industry that led to creation of these awards?
- [01:03]
B
So it's so nice to see you and to speak to you, so thank you for having me. I think even before talking about the awards, we should take a step back and really talk about CEW's relationship with NYSEC, who is so instrumental in the awards really coming together. So for more than a decade, CEW has partnered with NYSCC really, around the beauty awards and a specific award called the Ingredients in Formulation Award. So it's an honor that really recognizes. Recognizes true innovation in formulation science. So year after year, this category stands among the most highly submitted in the entire beauty awards program, alongside facial moisturizer and indie brand. So it was a real testament to the passion and ingenuity of the scientific community. So we kind of knew that something was bubbling up right there. We're getting so many submissions for this specific award. And then in early 2025, CEW and NYSC an opportunity to really take that commitment even further. And they told us they're like, we are very familiar with your awards platforms where you're honoring women in a C suite for achiever awards and you're honoring female founders with your visionary awards. There's really an opportunity for women in the science of beauty to be recognized. And we said, oh, that is amazing. So ultimately, we created this award, Innovators Awards, and we partnered with NYSCC to really identify what does that mean. So, yes, there was a huge gap in the industry. We were the first to do it, and they held our hands the entire way, really, from submissions, from helping to identify what the different categories were. And that's how we were able to really select and fine tune who would ultimately be an innovator. So ultimately, we honored 31 women in five different categories, so across R and D and Product Development, Formulation, Sustainability, Emerging Innovators, and Pathways Packaging. And we really honored them by putting them in a report, talking about their career journeys. And then we celebrated them at a cocktail party, complete with keynote speakers, the lipstick lesbians, who are innovators themselves.
- [03:22]
A
That's wonderful. No, it's. It's so interesting because. And Elana, I want to kind of get your take on this, because innovation is now such an important topic, and it's such. I think it always has been. Right. But now to see it come front and center is very inspiring, especially, I think, for a lot of women in medicine, women in science especially. I mean, what is your take on that in terms of innovation being the focus rather than just the broader beauty category?
- [03:49]
C
Yeah, I mean, I can tell you because it was. I attended the awards, and it was before I officially joined cw. And I think what struck me was that this is an industry that's based a lot on newness and on how it's marketed and what the package looks like, et cetera, but we never pull back the curtain on how the product actually gets made. And yet, interestingly, consumers love that. Right? Like, they love to see, like, on the line. Like, people love when brands kind of post like, here's the lipstick getting filled, or this is what it looks like on the line, or whatever. And I think really What Andrea and C.W. did was it refocused people's attention on the fact that there are individuals at every step of the process and that not only are women the end consumer, but there's this group of women, obviously men also. But we put the spotlight on women of. Who are behind the scenes, right? Either doing the research, creating the ingredients, formulating the product, working on the product package fit, et cetera. And what I saw was in that room were a lot of women who felt like they were the intel inside, but they were the best kept secret out there. Right? And so they were just so thrilled to kind of have this spotlight on them to say, a, thank you for doing this, but B, yes, like, I raised my hand. I worked on the bench in this big company for 30 years, and now I started my own ingredient manufacturer, my own lab or my own whatever. And there was just an enormous, enormous amount of pride. And I would also say camaraderie among those people because they kind of looked at each other and they understood each other, right? Like, they were like, we are part of this community. I feel like what happened was they, they came together like a cohort and they, they sort of wanted to create this sub community of innovators and creators.
- [06:03]
A
Yeah, that's really fascinating because I like what you said. I think these awards really, for me, stand out so much because the recognition that's needed, I mean, you can spend your whole life, right, like trying to create something magical and do it behind the bench, but then to not have anyone even know that you were behind that, that's. That's hard for any scientist, for any innovator. And so this is huge that you guys have introduced these awards. Andrea, I want to go back to you and ask you about the actual evaluation process for the awards. I'm sure that's pretty difficult, right, to kind of understand, like, what are the two factors that are standout in any kind of innovation rather than something that's trend driven novelty. So can you give us a little bit of insight into that evaluation process for the awards?
- [06:49]
B
So we received more than 100, 150 submissions and they were entered by category, not only by the innovators themselves, but also by their peers. So their peers called out, hey, you should know about this fantastic product development person or this amazing R and D person, or an up and comer. And so a lot of them who were ultimately chosen didn't know that they were even in the running. So then we took all of these submissions who were then by category and we all met in a room and we had our NYSE C partners help us. And we really just took a long time to look at the companies they were from, researching what are some of the ingredients that are trending and that are really making headway in the market right now. What are the products that these ingredients are being seen in right now? And it was easier than you kind of alluded to in that these women and the ingredients that they are behind and the brands that they're behind are kind of the rosters of what's going on in beauty right now. And I feel like we really hit the nail on the head at the right time. As you've seen in the market, on TikTok, on social media, scientists and people who are on the bench are getting the spotlight. So we were kind of in tune and riding that wave of all right, let's identify these women based on these very defined categories of emerging innovator and formulation and cosmetic chemistry, on and on, and they really just kind of rose to the top. It was a natural process.
- [08:39]
C
And, Ekta, I wanna say we had an experience where one of the innovators, I think just to take a step back, I think this group of people is so used to not being credited. Right. And not having attention put on them that somebody, one of their innovators, won the award, came alone, accepted it, and her company didn't know until afterwards. And, like, the company was sort of like, had we known, we would have been there to support you, whatever. But there. These innovators are so used to kind of being anonymous that they didn't even sort of, like, put it out there that. That this was. This was happening. And I like what you said about being a scientist and kind of being used to being behind the scenes. Like, if you think about it, we put a brand name on the front of a product. We put all the ingredients on the back. Right? Yeah. We never say formulated by. Right. And often it's a group of people. Right. I'm not saying it's one. Like, we all know, having worked in this industry a really long time, like, even on a small brand, there are probably a hundred people between the packaging people, the project managers, the contract manufacturers, the ingredient people, There are probably 100 people involved in the launch of a product. But the. I think for me, what struck me about the whole thing was the anonymity of the innovator themselves was completely blown up with the awards in a great way. Right. Like, it was really a reveal.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah. Just to piggyback on that, when we were creating the report and as we were reaching out to the innovators, my inbox was filled with messages saying, I cannot believe that I'm being recognized. They were so humbled and proud and probably even a little overwhelmed with this recognition, and I think it just kind of reinforced how we were really tapping into a white space.
- [10:42]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is, like, so huge. And I think that this is where I. For me, I think CEW really stands out because of reasons like this, because you guys are able to identify areas that I think the industry often overlooks. I've seen this time and time again, and I think that it's very much represented in these awards in the heart of it, when I'm looking at it. Right. And I would love for you guys to speak on this. This idea of, like, finding the areas in beauty that are just maybe, like, becoming the exception of, like, what should be recognized, what should we shine a spotlight on? What are Some of those things, like outside of even just the innovator awards or that really fueled these awards when you were thinking about creat them.
- [11:25]
C
Well, I'll let Andrea talk about, like, things she thought about in creating the awards. I. I can take what I think are the areas for the future.
- [11:35]
A
Yeah.
- [11:36]
C
If you look at the statistics around women's leadership in beauty and in fashion. Right. The numbers for women at the top in the CEO roles are actually not getting better, they're getting worse. And when you peel back the rationale about why, what are the reasons that women are being told that they're not getting those top jobs? There are three specific areas people talk about. One is financial acumen, one is operational expertise, and the third is international experience. And so I think for the future, if you think about how as an organization, if part of our focus is on the advancement and development of women's careers at every stage, I think the women in this industry who are financially oriented, the women who work in operations, and the women who have international experience are an area of. Are three different areas of opportunity that we can look at for sure. But now I'll let Andrea kind of answer your question about, like, how did we know this was a place to look.
- [12:49]
B
Well, I think we look to our mission statement and CUW's overall vision, which is to really elevate women in the beauty industry. And this was just an untapped area in the beauty industry. As I said, we recognize manufacturers and retailers in C suite as well as indie and founder companies. And we do have very good relationships with suppliers and contract manufacturers. So this was just the next obvious step that makes sense.
- [13:20]
A
Yeah. No, I'm really glad you created these. It's very exciting. And we're in. I think we're in a moment right now where innovation is really becoming the baseline expectation.
- [13:30]
B
Right.
- [13:30]
A
For a lot of different categories. I mean, obviously I talk a lot about skincare. I love skincare a lot, and I see it all the time in that. But what are your thoughts? I mean, Andrea, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this in terms of where innovation is really taking that center role. And apart from just recognizing, like, just people recognizing the role of innovation and how that's shaping careers in this space.
- [13:54]
B
Well, I think just the role of innovation is probably being fueled also by the consumer who is commanding and demanding ingredients that are working and that are worthy of their time. We deal with lots of data partners who track consumer search and who are seeing and reporting that consumers are searching about ingredients and looking for the most effective solutions, more now more than ever. And that's now even being seen on platforms like ChatGPT and Genesis and so on, where consumers are searching for solutions and in, in a multitude of ways. So who knows which came first, the chicken or the egg. But innovation has to be there in order for product to move, in order for there to be a reason to launch something. So that's really what is happening right now. And I think we're just seeing more and more women. As there are more women in the back areas of science and in the science of beauty, they are also coming to the forefront. I mean, if you just look at some of the innovators and the brands that we recognized, all of them are women. One of them was six Science, founded by two Turkish doctors, and just really amazing technology and innovation. And they're also being supported by people who have been in the industry for years and years, other brands. And I think we're just seeing a lot of support and partnership by everyone to put women forward who are, who are innovating and who have the science background.
- [15:28]
C
Yeah, and I think if I, if. Let's take a step back. What I'm about to say is pure conjecture, but it's, it's my, my own personal supposition. We, in our last conversation, we talked a little bit about sort of the history of beauty and like the categories, what people worked on, et cetera. I think one of the things, I'm sure you'll agree over the past, let's call it 10 years, what I call the taboo topics, hair loss, zits, menopause, facial hair, excessive sweating, body dryness, keratosis, pilaris, like all of these things that people never talked about have become A, areas that people talk about and B, areas that brands have innovated and created solutions. Right. And so I have to believe that women's involvement in science and in the conversation is part of that. Right. I, I myself worked on projects around in skincare more than 20 years ago that were sort of related to solutions for menopause, but they were developed by men and people weren't ready to have that conversation. I feel like that's a conversation today that people can't get enough of. Right. And there's from a product perspective, from a conversation on Reddit perspective, from an influencer perspective, like across the board. And I think that's where innovation is coming from now. And sort of all of these taboo and unmet topics, they're kind of coming to the fore, but also with solutions.
- [17:09]
A
Right?
- [17:09]
B
Right.
- [17:09]
A
No, that's a really good point. And I, I think that I've had this conversation on the podcast where, like, exactly what you said, Ilana, where it's like the, the topics and the, the industries that are so closely tied to, like, the medical side, right? Innovations that are really kind of bridging that gap between, like, okay, this was just in medicine before. This was just in big pharma before. We never saw it come over into this space where there's so much accessibility. I mean, that's where I feel like awards, like, these matter so much because they spotlight how we can bridge that gap and we can really bring over things that are going to genuinely help people at the end of the day, and you're not going to be limited by any kind of blockade. So that's, I mean, it's huge. And I completely agree with everything that you said. On that note, I want to ask, though, in terms of the future, Andrea, maybe you could tell us the future of the Waiter Awards. Like, what impact do you hope that this program has in the long run for the industry? Because right now, just to give you, like, my just opinion, I think we're in a time right now in beauty where we're seeing a lot of buzzwords come up. Although the science is there, the data is there, the consumers are still looking at them as, like, buzzy terms like biotech, all of the words in biotech. Where do you think the waiter of words are going to fit into that, into that narrative of, like, educating consumers and really getting them on board with the science of everything?
- [18:29]
B
I think, well, we're actually working on innovators for 2026 and what that event will look like. I think what we'll do is we will absolutely be looking into the categories that define what an innovator is, seeing how we might be able to expand on that and to include more people in science, more women behind the bench. And I think for the future, I mean, for now, we're owning it and we're loving that, really, how we can just get more people involved, make sure that everyone and within the scientific community knows about this opportunity for women in science and hopefully to really spur more submissions and to not be shy about that. And I think we should really make a goal to have it so that these women are becoming a little bit more comfortable in the spotlight. Last year, it was very interesting. It was kind of a phenomenon to have and to see such humility in accepting these awards. I will even say that the reporters who wrote about these women, they found it so refreshing to talk about. To talk with someone about the science behind the product and not the marketing. Because typically we're always reporting about marketing innovations and how they're cutting through the noise. So to talk to someone about how something was just a figment of someone's thought and to really talk about formulating that, they found that super refreshing. So I guess we should really be making sure that all of our innovators are really comfortable with the spotlight and are maybe talking about a little bit louder next time.
- [20:23]
A
Yeah, that makes sense. I know a lot of people in science can be very shy about accepting recognition, so that makes a lot of sense. Elana, I'd love to get your. Your perspective as well on that and the future of the Innovator Awards.
- [20:35]
C
Yeah, I mean, listen, I think we have a little ways to go until innovators is the size and scale of achievers. Right. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be. And I also think that innovators for us, in a way, can be an incubator program for achiever. There have been a few times along the way where we have recognized somebody in R and D as an achiever. But I do think that having Innovator be a place where if one of these individuals, organizations has not put enough spotlight on them, if we can do that, and that it then propels them and makes them be seen in their companies in a new way and puts them not only in a scientific role, but also in a leadership role. To become a head of R and D, to be ahead of research in an independent lab, to be somebody who's quoted as scientific expert across the industry and is working with PCPC or whoever. I think that one of the missions of CEW is recognition. And I think the recognition, this for me is the start for a group of people who have been unrecognized. But once the genie's out of the bottle, you can't put them back in.
- [22:05]
B
Right.
- [22:05]
C
For me, it's the beginning of the recognition for what the contributions have been. And I see it only getting bigger. Whether that's we recognize them again because they've achieved more things or just they use this as an opportunity and a platform to elevate themselves in their own visibility, in their companies, in the industry, et cetera, so that people begin to know what they're capable of. And it opens doors for them so that they can continue to advance.
- [22:32]
A
I love that. Well, I'm a huge fan and for all of our listeners, I hope there's someone in the audience that can apply for next year's awards. Very, very exciting. But thank you so much to both of you for telling us all about the awards and everything.
- [22:43]
C
Thanks, Hector.
- [22:44]
B
Thank you.
- [22:45]
A
Please welcome Dr. Jamie Emmettsberger, who is a recipient of The Innovator Awards 2025 by CEW. Dr. Emmett Spurger serves as the Director of Advanced technologies at the Estee Lauder Companies, where she is a fellow on the research and innovation team. She's also the lead scientist at Le Maire's Max Huber Research Labs. A molecular neuroscientist by training, Dr. Metzberger Research primarily centers on neurocutaneous biology, such as skin sensation, neurocutaneous signaling, cutaneous neuromodulation, and the impact of cellular senescence on skin aging. Welcome, Dr. Amitzberger.
- [23:20]
D
Thank you so much for having me today.
- [23:22]
B
Yeah.
- [23:23]
A
Congratulations again on your CEW Innovator Award. I think it's so wonderful that you've been recognized. And I want to take this opportunity to actually ask you about innovation, because it's such a important word, especially right now in the beauty industry. I think more than you kind of talk to us about what your view is in terms of the real meaning of innovation and why it's so important to recognize in our industry.
- [23:48]
D
Yeah. So I think obviously innovation comes down to a deep biological understanding, at least in my role. So if I can just give you just a little back, a little bit of background. I'm a trained molecular biologist and neuroscientist. So to me, having innovation is understanding the biology. So when it comes to skin, how do we approach affecting the skin in a beneficial way? But we won't have this type of understanding. Right. Without understanding the intricacies of these biological pathways. So how I position this is, when we think of innovation, we can also incorporate and explore other possibilities. So, like, for example, innovation can incorporate AI, for example, and this can explore additional possibilities, like what ingredients mixtures make sense in different skin types. This will allow us for, like, faster and opportunities with fewer experimentations. But to keep in mind, this will never replace scientific judgment or craftsmanship. It just enhances efficiency, insight, and precision. So when we think of innovation, it really is integrating, like, rigorous science with also craftsmanship when it comes to cosmetics. And it's not only to we don't want to chase trends, but instead, instead gain a deeper understanding of how biology and nature already works. Like what I was mentioning before. So you can translate this exceptional experience with real performance. So to me, discovery matters when it becomes an experience. Right. An exceptional performance reflects a brand's value.
- [25:30]
A
Yeah, no, that's, that's really powerful and I, I completely agree with you. I think that also one of the follow up questions I have is like, what in your view really separates them something brand new from innovation? Because I think right now we're in time where things are really coming out very rapidly and there are a lot of new stuff coming out, especially in the beauty space. So where is that line between okay, this is just a new thing, right, versus like truly it is going to make an impact in the scientific space?
- [25:56]
D
Yeah. And I think there, there is a balance there. Like you do have things that come out brand new and something that might be an exciting topic. But I think really what drives the innovation, as mentioned before, is understanding the complexity of what that brand new thing is doing. Right. So for example, I presented at MCAs this year, 2026, and we presented on exosome technology. And I think once again it is an emerging trend in aesthetic field. But what's important is understanding that these are biological messengers and diving deeper into what's brand new allows us to have a more targeted approach. So what I mean by this is let's give exosomes as an example, right? That these are delivery messengers. But really what matters is the cargo inside exosomes or even other alternatives like these exosome, like vesicles coming from plants. So, so if we don't understand the cargo, we're not going to understand the benefit that cargo can basically deliver on. So I think there is this fine line between, all right, what's new, what's trending, what's out there. But then understanding the biology behind of what we're truly studying will allow us to position it in the right way for the consumer and to elicit the proper benefit for that consumer.
- [27:22]
A
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that's also something that we see a lot. I mean, I hear about this a lot from our listeners too, where it's like there's this misunderstanding I think also around truly advanced like biologics and like these kind of technologies. Because there's no. I mean, I think there needs to be this like education, like what you're explaining. Like there needs to be that level of like very transparent education. And yeah, it's very interesting the way you explained it. We often talk about things like collagen and pigmentation and also like cutaneous neuromodulation. How much of visible skin aging is really a story of signaling dysregulation rather than just structural decline.
- [28:03]
D
That's a good question. And I think it also is going to depend on an individual's genetics. Right. So it's quite complex. And also environmental exposure. So I know based on literature and current publications that we consider majority of aging associated with environmental factors. Right. But when you take into account what's contributing to that breakdown, it is associated with signaling molecules. So even for example, like for. From UV exposure, right. You might have some breakdown, structural breakdown from light. But mostly what's contributing to structural breakdown is those signaling molecules that are actually attacking the collagen, for example. Or if you talk, you mentioned before, like pigmentation, right. There's always a signaling component that's going to enhance pigmentation. So I really think that there is this crosstalk in communication. It's not just like, all right, we're going to have degradation of collagen because that just naturally occurs with age. It really is associated with what signaling molecules are present and how they're contributing to that degradation. So they really worked hand in hand with one another. I don't think that there's one, one defined answer for this. Like I said before, it does take into account the, the individual's background, right. How much they are exposed to environmental stressors. And in addition to that. Right. What, what is the complexity of that signaling environment and particularly for me within. Within skin.
- [29:37]
A
Right. That's really interesting. And I also want to dive in because I know you, you explore through your research cellular senescence and its impact on aging. I think senescence is a very interesting topic because we've heard the word and again, like this is the industry is, I think, trying to catch up or catch consumers up with these very heavy science concepts. But again, like to understand something like that, I think it takes such a deeper look. And so I'd love for you to talk more about this topic and really about the role of senescence in true anti aging. Like what does that really mean and how should consumers be looking at this topic to understand it and its role so?
- [30:17]
D
Well, senescence is obviously a natural biological process and every individual has a senescent cell in them at any given time. So we have to understand that senescence is built right in our bodies as a natural fail safe mechanism. It actually is not such a detrimental thing. The trouble becomes is when you lose with age regulatory mechanisms or components that will help modulate or reduce the amount of senescent cells that we have, let's say, within our skin. So what I mean by this is that at any given time, right. A senescent cell can be beneficial because like I said before it is a fail safe mechanism. You don't want, let's say, for example, a cell that is damaged to keep on dividing. Right. You want to make sure all the healthy cells in that environment are functioning properly. So in this case, the body will say, all right, this cell in particular is damaged. So I'm going to become senescent. I don't want to divide anymore or I don't want to make any more of myself because I'm damaged. And that's great because then what will happen is that our body will over time remove that senescent cell. But with age, like I mentioned before, those regulatory mechanisms of removal decline. So what happens is that these senescent cells end up accumulating within any given system, let's say for skin. And what they do is they release all of these irritation or inflammatory factors, right. That can communicate with neighboring cells. And really that, that's the, that can be damaging. It's more about this bystander damage than it is about the senescent cell just being there. Right. So what they're doing is they're communicating with their neighbors and that can cause the neighboring cells to become damaged and the neighboring cells to become senescent. So it's really more about this, this communication, like you were mentioning before, these signaling molecules. And those signaling molecules is what is detrimental. And that is what's going to cause the tissue to eventually decline because they're no longer working optimally. And, and to that point as well, there's a lot of contributing factors that will lead to senescence. Like I said prior, enhanced environmental exposure that's going to cause cells to become damaged, which can trigger senescence. Right. And if you don't have this proper communication or this proper, I should say, regulation within any given tissue, then they'll end up accumulating. And the more exposure you have to these environmental stressors will enhance the amount of these senescent cells.
- [32:59]
E
Cells.
- [33:00]
D
So really, even though senescence is considered cellular aging, right. It's when they accumulate, where, when it becomes an issue.
- [33:10]
A
That's. Yeah, that's really fascinating. And again, like, it's just this understanding of like truly what senescence is. And I think I had asked this question a long time ago, like, in terms of, like, can we even quantify senescence at this point? In terms of like, have we figured out all the biomarkers? Have we figured out what that cellular profile really looks, looks like to where we can say, yes, this is a snes. And so I think, I mean, we're, this is a Brand new concept in itself, right? I mean, we're finally coming into this now in the scientific realm. And so I think it's again, this consumer like, like for consumers to wrap their head around it. It becomes so important for voices like yours to be present in this industry to like really, really teach and just kind of guide us into like a realistic understanding and not buzzwords. And that's what I worry about a lot from my end as well. Like both as a scientist and also consumer is like, are we really understanding or are we just kind of diving into these buzzy topics?
- [34:06]
D
Yeah, and I absolutely agree with you and I think in terms of senescence too, like you were mentioning before, what is the proper signaling pathway or what's going to induce that? So if you have, let's say UV exposure versus pollution versus just natural aging, all of those are going to make a senescent cell a little bit different, right? You're never going to have an identical cell. That senescence profile, I should say from a given cell and also depends on the cell type, right. Whether it is a upper layer skin cell like a keratinocyte or a lower layer skin cell that produces collagen like fibroblast, that the difference between those cells will actually give different signaling molecules. So it's much more complex than we think it is. We could say, all right, well we have senescence, let's just treat it with something. But the biology for each cell type and each condition that induces senescence will be a little bit different. And that's what makes it unique. And that's why we have to understand the deep science behind what let's say environmental stressors are truly doing to cells, right. And then what those cells are doing in response to those environmental stressors, and that's how we can end up targeting them better.
- [35:20]
A
I couldn't agree with you more. And with that in mind, especially the signaling component, I mean, looking ahead are. Do you think we're entering into what you might call a signaling era in skin care? I mean, do you think that that's coming next? Because I feel like we've been through this whole biotech introduction, right? And different phases of people consider to be more scientifically forward skin care. But now is it, I mean, do you think it is finally like a signaling era that we're coming up on?
- [35:47]
D
I do think so. I mean, I think that we have been, we've been doing it for a while. We just haven't been very forward with it. Because everything in biology is like mentioned before is based on a signaling component. So whether it's peptides. Right. Or let's say exosomes, for example, which are these vesicles that carry signals within them. I think all of this is leading to us being more forward about talking about signaling. But I think that we've been doing it for decades. I just think that we're still learning more deeply as new technologies come out. Right. And new instruments come out. It allows us to explore the science more deeply. So as as the industry progresses from a scientific standpoint, meaning new methods. Right. New advancements in microscopy or new advancement in certain types of instrumentation, our science is also going to excel. So now we're learning how complex the skin communication is, and that, once again, will help us have better targeted approaches on how we're designing our formulas. Us.
- [37:03]
A
That makes sense. And I love that you said that. We've always kind of been here, and I love that you said that, because I think that's where many times as consumers, we can get so lost in this idea of like, oh, this is brand new, when in reality, yeah, cell signaling is. Is queen when it comes to anything. And if we don't understand cell signaling and molecular biology, it becomes very difficult to kind of wrap our heads around, like, the latest innovations and the latest true advancements when it comes to skin health sciences. So I really, really appreciate your. Your viewpoint on all this, but thank you so much again. This is wonderful. And congratulations on your Innovator Award.
- [37:37]
D
Thank you very much.
- [37:38]
A
So now we're welcoming Dr. Lavina Popescu, who is in charge of all of the R and D at Olaplex. She's the chief scientist there and chief researcher, and I'm so excited to welcome her and congratulate her on the Innovator Awards that CEW granted. Welcome. Laveena. I'm so excited to talk to you.
- [37:54]
E
Same. Thank you so much for this invitation.
- [37:56]
A
I'm excited to dive in because I think innovation is really leading right now in beauty, especially in hair care. And I'd love for you to kind of tell us a little bit about where what you see is truly in a, like, true innovation in the hair care space. I mean, what are some of the things that you've seen in the last few years that have been like, wow, this is a huge shift for the hair care industry?
- [38:17]
E
Well, definitely recently, especially the last couple of years, we noticed that treatment in hair care category plays a much more role and bigger role than did in the past. Treatment usually is coming from skincare, but honestly, with the amount of the Peptide and proprietary technologies that we notice in the industry. I feel hair care is the next big trend in the treatment category not only again not only for hair follicle, for hair growth, but I'm talking more about the hair fibers like classical shampoo conditioner or treatments for the hair fiber. This in my opinion I, I see a big shift and like I said, big innovations.
- [39:03]
A
I mean that's huge. And I think Olaplex is so unique because when the bond building technology was introduced I think it really changed the way that we think about hair. Right. And we, the way we, the way we approach it. And I think that's, I mean Olaplex has been such a hallmark brand in so many ways in terms of even shifting the culture around how consumers interact with the science of hair. And so I'd love for your thoughts on that. In terms of being an innovator. How do you manage that kind of bringing the science to the consumer without overwhelming them, but showing them that this is really going to improve your day to day?
- [39:40]
E
Yeah, well, to be honest, I was not part of Olaplex 12 years ago when this technology came out. And I, I have to be very honest, that time I was part of Estee Lauder and I remember I was looking in their technology, in Olaplex technology because in reality to be able to repair the cortex of the head, that was a holy gray for us. And like I said 12 years ago the owner, the ex. Owner of Olaplex, Dean Crystal joined, joined the force with a very amazing scientist from California and they actually, they realize the existing proprietary molecule which is the B. Salmon or this is how we call not very scientifical is the one that actually can reform the disulfide bonds. Because we know that the disulfide bonds are the most important bonds that we need to reform. When the hair is damaged, different type of damage damages, especially chemical damages because this is the hardest damage that we need to take care of. Now like I said, other technologies, this happened 12 years ago. Right, but other technologies evolved in meantime and like I said before, the peptide category is the one that in my opinion it's, it's, it's huge and can really change, change this industry. But in reality our technology in this moment still is number one technology in reforming the sulfide bonds. Probably you are aware that Olaplex acquire a biotech company, Purvala born with, in MIT laboratories, with MIT scientists. And by acquiring this technology, this biotech company, we actually acquire a couple of proprietary technologies still in the peptide categories. That actually I can say it's more innovative in terms of benefits. It's more advanced. Instead of building one disulfine bonds, now with one of the technology, we can build six disulfine bonds in the same time. And it's in the peptide category. And it's a 360 round which is, like I said, is 3D, which actually will help not only to repair the hair, but also to reshape the hair, which is the next generation. In our industry, we have other technologies that we are working, proprietary technology that we are working in this moment. But I feel this technology, especially this technology that I'm talking about, we call band shaper technology. It's one that really can put the hair care industry in the next level.
- [42:36]
A
That's really fascinating to hear because that's my main question. Right. Innovation is such a broad term. But then when you think about it, I mean, where like this science component, you and I can sit here for hours and you can explain all of this to me and I will love it because I enjoy science. But I think for the everyday consumer bringing this science forward, what were, what are some of the hurdles that you think that Olaplex faces from the RD side? Side or any brand? Right. I mean any, any brand, I guess you could say in terms of showing consumers that we are entering a new era, especially with biotech. Like this is a new space that we're entering in the beauty industry. And what are your thoughts on that?
- [43:16]
E
Well, in reality, the consumer are looking, looking to see the benefits.
- [43:20]
A
Yeah.
- [43:20]
E
If you can deliver the right products with the right benefits for the consumers, of course they will trust the brand. And I feel this is the first thing that any brand can do. It can really deliver what they are saying to do it. The second one that in my opinion is extremely important is the safety. And I can say that at Olaplex we have specific standards for safety, I think, and I don't want to be exclusive, but probably we want one of the highest in the safety testing and I think for the consumer matter, because they want to be sure when they use a product, the product is safe. Even if they use multiple times or one time, the product is safe. And also what is important is important in the cleaning category. Right. Like we want to work in saving the planet. We want to be in the area that we don't use harsh chemicals and not they are safe only for the consumers, but also for the planet. If we will be able to deliver everything that I'm saying, saying and with the right benefits, I Think the consumer will listen to the science. And it's a, it's a very interesting shift even in the consumer's mentality and probably because more and more they are exposed to science. We have a lot of questions about the mechanism, how exactly this product is working. Even when we do like one to one classes with the hairstylist or directly with the consumers, we have meetings with them. They always are extremely curious and they love to understand science behind the product, which is great.
- [45:08]
A
Yeah, no, I mean there's a big shift right now, I think consumer like the, Everybody's asking questions, everybody. And that's why I feel like this award is so. It's just so important. When I spoke to Alana and Andrea about the, the real significance of CEW's Innovator Awards, I was blown away by their responses as well, because right now I think, think it's so important to highlight the scientists, especially the women in stem, that are behind these innovations because I think that really speaks to how people can kind of feel like they can relate to that. Right. Like me as a consumer myself, like, I mean, I'm in science, but if I wasn't in science, if I knew there was a female scientist, you know, such as you, and you were behind the scenes and you were creating this, I would feel better as a consumer knowing that. And so I would love to get your, your take on and your opinion on this idea of like congratulating and awarding the scientists and bringing the scientists to the forefront when it comes to the identity of brands and letting consumers see them and say, oh, okay, this person is behind the brilliant idea that changed the game. So what are your thoughts on that?
- [46:14]
E
I completely agree with you and I have to give you my personal experience in this area. Before I came to United States, I'm from Romania, I was assistant professor to quantum chemistry department in Bucharest and I was one of the few women in that department. To be very honest. It's not like I felt a little bit different, but I felt that it's hard sometimes to, to fit in that scientifical world. Probably because I was young, I didn't know exactly what's going on, but I felt a little bit being we basically we were only two, two women in that department was a little bit hard to fit.
- [47:08]
D
Yeah.
- [47:08]
E
When I came in United States and I joined cosmetics industry, I felt much better because in R and D, at least at Estelle Order, we had a lot of women that work in the scientifical part. And I felt so good. And even now I remember when, when I Realized that first of all, I'm a woman, that I fit in this area. I have partner that I discuss with. And I think even the communication, the connection between us was so different, especially in cosmetics industry, which, like I said, many, many years ago, was very much into the woman category. We express ourselves much better. We communicate, we connect. It very easy to say. And I feel I agree with you. I mean, even now when, like I said, I'm going to PR events and I met this hairstylist, the ambassadors, they are fascinated to understand who is behind. Who is the scientist or who are the scientists behind the products. We have a lot of people that are coming in the lab. We have special tours for, especially for the hairstylist, even for some influencers, but they are fascinated to meet people behind the products.
- [48:29]
A
Yeah, I mean, I can imagine. Because I think for us, those who are in science, I think it's very early in your career, it's ingrained in you to be curious about who knows what, you know what I mean, and seek knowledge. And now, now I feel like that culture, that true spirit of science is now seeping into the consumer mindset. And I love seeing that because now it's like, I want to know. I want to know the, the mind that came up with this. And, and that is where I think these kind of awards are so critical at this stage in the beauty industry. You know what I mean? Because it's, this is what's happening, going to change how consumers demand more from brands. It's like you don't just want products anymore. As a consumer, you want an experience. You want to feel like you're part of something. And I, and I just love, I love that this exists and I love that women like you are here and you're showing up in, in a way where the consumers can see this person did this, you know, she did this came from her mind.
- [49:29]
E
So I mean, they put a face behind the product, which, yeah, matters so much for them 100%. Yeah. It's not created in a special laboratory AI or something with they, they feel humans. It's, it's a human connection, I think. Yeah.
- [49:48]
A
Well, also with, with a brand like Olaplex or any hair brand, right. Who are the main consumers? And this is across the board in beauty, right? It's. It's women. Women are.
- [49:57]
E
Exactly, exactly.
- [49:58]
A
If we don't represent women, then what are we doing? That's the, that's the fundamental. That's why I love that CEW made these. Aw. Really do. Because this is, I think it's a benchmark. And I mean I would love to get your advice though because there are a lot of, I think young women right now that obviously you see them, they're going into stem, but it's a different, it's a different place now I think STEM than It was maybe 20 years ago. And you know, what's your advice to the budding scientists, to the, to the young woman who wants to go into to science, about career, about expectations, anything, thing, any words of wisdom you can offer.
- [50:33]
E
This is actually a very good question. And I have two girls, two daughters and it's funny because especially my oldest one, she's in the science already and I really encourage from the beginning to be in science because she had a very scientifical mind. But now with the AI and everything was going on a lot, I have a lot of questions regarding the new generation Gen Z, Gen Alpha, if science is still safe. Because first, this is the first question that they always ask me and I have to say science, it's safe. It's not only safe, but especially when you work in the lab, I feel you cannot replace this so easy. Second, talking about girls in science, I feel us woman especially in cosmetics industry because we use the product, we know how to, we know what we are looking for, we know what is missing. I think they have such a big potential and definitely they can create and they can come up with so many innovative ideas that I'm 100% for girls women in science, especially in cosmetics industry, in R D and surprisingly or not surprisingly in, in the R and D in dolaplex R D we have very young woman that they are doing amazing and yes of course we have men in, in the lab but majority of the scientists are women and they are young and they are extremely creative. They love the job and like I said, we love cosmetics. This is part of our DNA. Right look now especially Gen Alpha, they start probably when they are five years old to understand exactly what the products are. It means it's in our DNA. We want to look pretty, beautiful, young, attractive. And when you have this in your mind, you understand better.
- [52:48]
A
Yeah.
- [52:49]
E
What products we should develop in order for us to look beautiful.
- [52:54]
C
Right.
- [52:54]
E
Or to look the way you want to look. And again I feel we need to encourage the woman to be in science. Science is amazing not only in cosmetics in general. I feel, I feel science, it's a fantastic area but especially in cosmetics industry, we need more girls, more women.
- [53:16]
A
I agree, I agree 100 with you and those are wonderful words and I, I love that you have daughters and that you are able to share with them. Because I sometimes I look out and I see so many. Like, for me, I remember when I went into science, I didn't have a mentor and I see that a lot these days. There's very few mentors that are, you know, it's hard, it's hard mentoring people, but I think girls don't get those opportunities as readily until they seek them out. So I think even from that, that, that mindset, it's so important to have women and beauty, especially like, like pioneers and, and visionaries such as yourself, to be forward in the, in the media and to see you because they're, they're going to be exposed to that immediately. You know, like if you're, if you're buying a product and a woman scientist was behind creating that, you as a little girl, I'm sure something happens in your brain when you start thinking, yeah, they're not, they're not in college yet. You know what I mean? So they haven't seen the female professor. So that's their first exposure to a female scientist.
- [54:16]
E
That's 100. And like I said, I know girls who actually very young, yeah, they do their own product. A couple of young influencers, they, they create their own master. They act like a scientist. Imagine when they will be in the lab, how much innovation they can bring because they, their mind, they know how to build this type of, of products, like to work in this industry.
- [54:42]
A
It's beautiful. It's beautiful. Well, thank you so much for your time. I have really, really enjoyed this and I congratulations again on the award. It's so well deserved.
- [54:50]
E
Thank you, thank you and thank you again for, for everything. Like, really appreciate having a little bit time to listen to my ideas and to promote the fact that women are so important and I, I really want them to be in more in science than any anywhere else.
- [55:07]
A
Thank you guys so much for tuning in to this episode. I have really loved learning about the CEW Innovator Awards. I think these awards are incredibly just needed in this space because they are talking about a topic that I think just has never been touched before. You know, for so long, women in science have been silently working away in the background bringing the most advanced technologies to the forefront and very rarely do we see see them celebrated in this capacity. And so I really urge all of you go check out CEW if you have not already follow along with all of their content and leave us your thoughts below. I would love to learn from you what you think about, you know, celebrating women in this way and what you think about the awards and, you know, just keep tuning in. Guys. Thanks so much.