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- [00:00]
Warby Parker Ad
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- [00:31]
Dani Pellegrino
Elise Hu, host of the podcast Ted Talks Daily. For more than 20 years, Paylocity has been leading the way with cutting edge work solutions like On Demand Payment which offers employees access to wages prior to payday, flexible time tracking features which enable staff to clock in and out through their mobile device, and numerous other cutting edge solutions that simplify collaboration across hr, finance and it. Learn more about how Paylocity can help streamline work and enhance business outcomes for your organization@paylocity.com simplified raise your hand if.
- [01:06]
Sarah Gibson Tuttle
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- [02:04]
Dani Pellegrino
Hey guys, welcome back to Skin Anarchy. I'm excited to introduce a new hair care brand to you guys today. I've been really loving it, especially because they have some really stellar products in the hair care industry and I think that's very relevant for all of us. Right, because scalp care is skin care in so many ways and it's never really discussed in a way that's, you know, really diving into why it matters and like what we should actually be doing for our scalp health versus all the buzz out there. So with all that said, I'd love to introduce you guys to the General manager of New Trier, Kristen Chase, welcome. Kristen. I'm so excited to host you.
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Kristen Chase
Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I'm so excited to chat with you about New Trier.
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Dani Pellegrino
Yeah, no, I'm excited to dive in. I know you have such an amazing background, Kristen. You know, you've worked with and led major beauty brands, you know, in the industry. And I'd love to learn what was different about that and then stepping into the world of New Trier and if you could kind of walk us down memory lane, you know, just to learn more about you for sure.
- [03:03]
Kristen Chase
So jumping into Nutrit was just such an intriguing opportunity. I've been fortunate, worked on a lot of different skincare, hair care, color, cosmetics brands. In my past, however, that was often stepping into an established brand and really trying to move it forward. In this case, it was creating something from scratch, something from the very, very ground up, which was a challenge but also just so exciting to me, especially in the world of hair care. I think it's one of the categories that I feel like has. It's been a long time since anyone's really challenged the norm of hair care. I think for decades and decades we've thought about hair care as just the hair. So we've been thinking about just that strand and how to, you know, manipulate or care for it or cover it or you change it in some certain way. And we've been totally overlooking the scalp. Nutrier, Nutrier is a brand that's all about empowering healthy hair growth and that starts at the scalp. So being able to come in with a fresh idea, with a fresh vision and create that from the very beginnings of a brand, which is really the concept of it through to the end products, was just thrilling. The other part of what was intriguing about getting to work on New Trier is that Nutrier is the first brand to emerge from the CPG incubation hub, which is within Trikochi Salon and Spa. And so Trikochi Salon and Spa is this nearly 50 year old salon and spa establishment based in Chicago. There are decades and decades of expertise living within the walls of Trikochi. So I had access to trichologists, hairstylists, estheticians at all points in this journey over the last three years where we built Nutrier to lean on them for their expertise, to trial products with them, to discuss, you know, different skin care and ha care philosophies and really bottle that up into a new brand that is Nutrier.
- [04:56]
Dani Pellegrino
Wow, that's so cool that you had all of these touch points because I think whenever I speak to anyone about hair health. There's so many different opinions and also, like, knowledge. Right. That everyone is able to provide. Like, I feel like a dermatologist will tell you something completely different than a hairdresser will, you know, because it just varies, you know, based on what their interaction is with the hair. So that's really cool that you incorporated all of that knowledge into formulating this brand and bringing it to life.
- [05:23]
Kristen Chase
Yeah, it's been really fascinating because I have worked on hair care brands for so long, and I feel like when you talk, when you would speak with someone who's, you know, studying the profession of hair and really understand scalp health, they will always, you know, tell you. I'm thinking back 10, 20 years ago, working on hair care brands where I'd speak with stylists and they'd say, you know, it's really about scalp health. But it felt like at that time, the consumer was just not ready to understand that or wasn't ready to talk about the scalp. You know, for whatever reason, it was just maybe not as sexy as the hair strand or it just wasn't. It was more taboo. If you wanted to talk about your scalp, then maybe that meant you had a problem or, you know, you had some type of condition. But really, the scalp and the skin is what powers your healthiest hair. And it's so exciting now in the world of hair care because consumers are so intelligent. You know, you have so many people that are skin intellectuals, and now that's transitioning over to hair, and people are really embracing the fact that, you know, your hair is your skin, and if you take care of your skin, your scalp, then your hair will be even healthier. So it's just. It's really exciting because I feel like whenever I do talk to my estheticians or the trichologists or hairstylists, they're all like, yes, this is what we've been saying all along. But now, you know, the consumer is really, really getting it.
- [06:36]
Dani Pellegrino
Yeah, no, I think it's a really interesting time for hair because exactly what you said. And also, more importantly, there's been this whole idea of, you know, I'm sure you've seen everybody talk about this where, you know, people say, don't wash your hair every day. Wash it. You know, whatever that frequency is for you every other day or once a week or whatever that is. And. But no one discusses what it means for different people. You know what I mean, in terms of these practices. And so I think from when I look at it from that standpoint, hair health is really very, very customizable, I think, for individuals. Right. And that's where it's like, products have to be geared towards that and that understanding of like, it's kind of like you. You start to learn about your own health and your own hair health when you start using the products. Because for a lot of consumers out there, it's very difficult to understand when you start having symptoms. So if you start experiencing hair loss or thinning or something, you know, is going on with you, it's a very traumatic experience. And then people start thinking like, oh, God, I have to care about my scalp. You know, all of a sudden it just, it comes into the picture. So I think from that standpoint, I love that you've built this into the brand from the beginning where you're, you know, you have taken care of these kind of touch points from the scientific side of, like, sure, that this is what we actually need for our scalp, you know, and for the overall health. And that's very interesting. I'd love for you to talk about, you know, really just more of like the brand focus because, you know, what was the thought behind creating, like, let's talk about some of the serums that you have for the scalp and the line. Right. Like, what was the thought behind creating those? You know, the research that went into.
- [08:11]
Kristen Chase
That, I mean, so we really took skincare principles and applied it to the range. And we wanted to create a system that was really simple, that mimicked an existing hair care routine, but took in those skincare practices to make it efficacious. The nutrier system is really three separate pieces. It's treatments, and that's overall treatments for scalp health. Then you have your cleansers, which are your shampoos that focus on scalp type. And then you have your conditioners, which focus on your strand type. So these, you asked about the serums. The treatments are where we have our two serums. We create these more towards your. Your treatments that you would find within skin care. So any type of serums or exfoliants, we have our T1 day serum, which is to be applied after washing your hair when your hair is damp. And this is like a multivitamin for your hair. So this is like that scalp strengthener has everything you could think of to really empower healthy hair growth. Strengthen your scalp, hydrate it, calm it, nourish it. That you could say that you can enable healthier hair growth. And then we have our T2 night serum. So the night serum is really a gentle exfoliant. It has a light lactic acid inside of it combined with a jojoba oil to kind of balance out the exfoliating action that's taking place and soothes your hair overnight.
- [09:33]
Dani Pellegrino
Yeah, no, that makes sense, actually, because I feel like that's where the confusion is for, I think, consumers as well. Right? Because we have all of these products all of a sudden in the hair category. And I think it becomes very important to kind of digest where they apply, you know, to the overall process of what we're doing for our hair health. So that makes sense, actually. You know, having a day serum and a night serum scalp. I'm just curious, like, you know, when you were looking at. Because you scalp is skin. So when we talk about the scalp, we rarely talk about, for example, like, you know, the Fitzpatrick skill is often used, right. For skin care. And people love talking about it for skin health and those needs. But how did that play in to the journey of creating this brand?
- [10:14]
Kristen Chase
I think in skin care, people are so well educated to automatically think about your. When you're thinking about how to shop for your products, you're automatically thinking about what kind of scalp type do I have? Or what type of skin type do I have? And we really want people to start thinking of that when they think about their hair too, because your, your scalp is an extension of your face. It's your skin, and that means your scalp has a type as well. So when we were designing all of our shampoos, which are essentially your cleansers, if you think about it like you think about skin care, we look to the American Dermatology Association's definition of skin types, and the top three main classifications were dry, normal, and oily. And we understand, you know, skin types are very complex and there's a lot of different types out there. But we thought, let's start with these three top most common skincare and apply them to scalp and create shampoos that approach scalp health like you approach your skin health. So we felt like a type classing system for our shampoos made the most sense in this case, to help really educate consumers, help them better to shop for their shampoos. For so long, we have been having people, you know, shop their hair care in set. So we say, okay, you have these benefits you can pick from. You can have shiny hair, you can have voluminous hair, you can have stronger hair. And then you go and you buy your shampoo and you buy your matching conditioner. Now that completely overlooks what your scalp needs. Your, your strand might need volume, but your scalp doesn't. Need volume or your strand, you might want it to be shiny, but you don't necessarily want your scalp to be shiny. So we thought applying, you know, the dry, medium, oily, or dry, normal oily types of skin to the scalp in terms of how you're shopping for your shampoo would help consumers, you know, be in a familiar territory. Just like how they shop or their skin care, but then apply that to hair care shopping.
- [12:05]
Dani Pellegrino
That makes sense. I love that, and I love that you've customized that. Actually, I. I really enjoyed, like, going on the site and, like, figuring out, you know, what I needed. I. I think that's so important now because, you know, shopping has become so different. Right. Especially, like, I don't even remember the last time I went into a retail store. I'm not gonna lie. I feel like websites are the thing, and they really help us narrow down, you know, how to get to the products that we need. And I like that you guys have that kind of built in, you know, with what you're doing, because, you know, it's hard. It's hard. The whole industry right now is so saturated that it can be very difficult to figure out, you know, especially with hair, because I think with skin, we've done this where everybody now knows, you know, this is my skin type, this is what doesn't work for me, and this is what works for me. But with hair, I think we're still figuring all that out, and it's really important to kind of guide consumers, I think, you know, from that angle, from the brand standpoint, towards what they actually need, versus just redundant products, you know, that they've probably tried. Yeah, yeah.
- [13:00]
Kristen Chase
And one way we. We think we've oversimplified the way that we're taking care of hair and the way that we have, you know, the options that we give consumers by saying, you know, shop for your hair care system in pairs, and you need, you know, a shampoo conditioner, and, you know, maybe a leave in. It's so much more in depth than that. Nutria takes so much more of a comprehensive approach, but at the same time, we want to keep it super simple. You know, you don't want to be deterred from taking care of your scalp health because it's an additional step in the routine, or it's. It's, you know, a whole other, you know, layer of information I need to kind of uncover to figure out what to. How to diagnose myself. I think it's. It's really quite simple. If you do think of it in the framework as you know, what kind of skin type do I have, then that's going to probably equal the type of scalp type you have. And then we have, you know, a very simple quiz you can take to tell you, here are the exact products you need to really regulate your scalp health and then therefore, you know, achieve healthy, beautiful, strong hair.
- [13:58]
Dani Pellegrino
Right. That's really cool. I wanted to chat with you about ingredients because I think that's really, really important. It's something I'm very passionate about, especially because there's such little known about scalp health. I mean, I've said this before on the podcast. You know, I grew up hair oiling like my whole life. You know, it was part of my culture and it's something I did. You know, I found it to be just a normal thing you do. And then I, when you grow up, you realize, oh no, that was, was very good practice because of this, this, this and this ingredient, you know, and, and that's why it helped my hair grow and become stronger. And I'd love to discuss that because I know with one of the treatment serums, it's the first one, the day one is a nourishing serum. So, and the whole line, right, is based on this whole idea of nourishment. So what were some of the ingredients that really stood out to you, you know, that are maybe hero ingredients in the line and also something that we might overlook as consumers when it comes to understanding what actually works for, you know, the scalp.
- [14:53]
Kristen Chase
Yeah, I think, you know, the product development process for Nutria was really fascinating. I think from the very beginning we thought about, you know, what, what's the ultimate goal here? Well, we wanted to create a system that would allow healthy hair growth, empower healthy hair growth so that your hair thrives and, and the way to getting there would be different for every single person, every single Skype scalp type, every strand type. So ingredients are really what took, you know, the concept to life and helped us to find solutions for every scalp and strand type. The very beginning of this process, we were able to, about, you know, three years ago, I want to say we sat down with estheticians, trichologists and hairstylists to really talk to them about, you know, their, their practice and how they treat and advise care for, you know, scalp and strand and skin, you know, on, on their clients in a day to day setting. So we did, you know, have a lot of discussions and talked a lot about what makes hair truly thrive. In those conversations, you know, we talked about, well, what you know, can stifle hair Growth. There is one common, commonly occurring hormone that I'm sure you've, you know, of, you've talked about on your show, which is dht. So DHT is that naturally occurring hormone that occurs within, within the body and it can start to stifle hair growth. So it, it makes it so the follicle isn't super clear and receptive to rece receive ingredients that it needs to grow strong, healthy hair. One of the things that we created within our process and what is included in all of our Nutria formulas is something called Complex Complex 8. And so Complex 8 is actually a complex made of eight potent natural ingredients. And what it does is it works together to help block the development of DHT within the hair strand and follicle so that hair can grow healthier. So we were able to come up with this complex by, you know, speaking with our estheticians, by speaking with our cosmetics chemists and really helping to understand, you know, what, what are those natural ingredients that can come together to help, you know, promote healthier hair growth?
- [16:59]
Dani Pellegrino
Oh, that's pretty cool. I like that you guys did that. I mean, yeah, it's really, it's kind of the wild, wild west out here, you know, with, with understanding what works. And I think for me, a long, for a long time it's been, you know, I'll be honest, I've used coconut oil for a long time. And when I was first learning about hair health, I remember people were talking about, you know, is it good for you? Is it bad for you? Because everybody was discovering coconut oil, you know, and in Indian culture has played a big role, right, in like this hair oiling way. And so I remember thinking about that back then. I'm like, you know, we really have to narrow down these ingredients and figure out what actually is going to nourish scalp. Because the skin on scalp is so different than anywhere else on the body. It's the most protected. It's, you know, it doesn't get exposed to as much, you know, UV radiation as other parts of our body. And so it's got a unique set of needs that need to be addressed. Right. And that's where it's just very intriguing that you guys have really put your, you know, put a lot into this. And thinking about that now I want to focus on. Because you guys do both, right? You do the hair strand health as well as scalp health. How was that? I mean, that's a lot to take on as a brand. So how was that in terms of formulating products and doing the research to, to create the best products, you know, for both needs.
- [18:16]
Kristen Chase
Yeah, I think that's what we really consider. Our point of difference is where most brands are focusing on either scalp care or they're focusing on strand care. We're focusing on both. And we feel like, you know, you need that dual diagnosis, this model to really evaluate both and, you know, provide the most holistic hair care within your strand solution and your scalp solutions. We had to address concerns in order to bring, you know, balance, to fix the problem while providing additional nourishment for the segment, the hair of scalp that we were trying to target. So we approach the formulation in layers. Our shampoo shampoos are designed by the scalp to restore balance and support a healthy follicle environment. Then our conditioners are tailored by strand types of whether your hair is fine, thick or textured, it gets the right weight of hydration and nourishment that's needed. And so I think, to answer your question, this, this dual diagnosis model means that we're not just treating the symptoms, we're creating a system that supports long term hair health really from root to tip. Right?
- [19:18]
Dani Pellegrino
Makes sense. That makes sense. I think that it's very interesting because, you know, like I said earlier, like when we first started talking, I think a lot of times us consumers, we wait till something goes wrong, you know, and we're always like, okay, well now my hair is fried, you know, like, what do I do? You know, like, how do I take care of this? I've been there many times and it's like, it becomes, it becomes a cycle of like not understanding. And that's where I think the brand really speaks to me. Because, you know, when you can create something that, you know, someone can purchase products that are meant for all parts of your hair health. Right. It's not just about the scalp, which I see a lot of, of this happening, by the way, in the industry. It's just my opinion, like I see a lot of people are just hyper focused now, you know, on the scalp because it's buzzing and it's, it's a big thing. But really it's about the holistic need, you know, and, and addressing it overall. So I think that's very rare and interesting to have that in a brand and to be able to shop products that are synergistic in that way. I think it really helps consumers because oftentimes, I mean, how many times have you, you know, experience that where you're trying to shop for a shampoo and it's like, well, this is a Completely different brand, you know, than. Than my other products. And it becomes very frustrating to figure out, how do you pair products? What is the best combination? You know, is this going to weigh my. My hair down versus help it? And I think that's also a concern when you talk about scalp care. Right? Because a lot of times people say, well, this really weighs my scalp down, you know, but it's great for my strands. So it's. It becomes this big puzzle, I think, for consumers. And so I love that, you know, new trailer has done that, where all of the products are. They're made together and they're made, you know, with different needs in mind. So when you're shopping the same brand, you're going to get better results. I just believe that's to be true across the board. You know, whether that's skincare, hair care, beauty brand, you know, if you shop from the same brand, it usually works better in the long haul. I want to talk a little bit about the clinically proven aspect because this is so, so important, you know, and as I'm sure you know, you know, it's something that I think now more than ever, people are gravitating towards, like, brands that can really speak to clinical efficacy of products. And I love that. You know, I love seeing that because for such a long time we were all like, kind of in the dark, just buying products, you know, like based on packaging or. Or something else. But I mean, you guys have really done your homework here where the products are truly clinically proven, but they're. But you say they're intentionally gentle. So could you speak about that a little bit and, you know, maybe share some results like the clinical data that you guys saw?
- [21:53]
Kristen Chase
Yeah, no, I love that question. I think when we approach this, and we talked in the beginning about, you know, being able to start something from scratch, I think we. We knew we wanted to start with what we wanted to achieve in the end, which was we wanted proven claims. We didn't want to just, you know, have marketing, beautiful marketing lingo and, you know, cut taglines and things like that, which of always need. But we wanted to be able to stand up behind our claims and know that they would be validated, you know, not just from a consumer perception standpoint, but from, you know, from a, you know, a scientific tool or a scientifically measured standpoint. So with thinking about how to make sure something is clinically proven but also gentle at the same time, and that we're ensuring that clinical efficacy, I mean, I would say it's something that different Definitely didn't take over. You know, it didn't happen overnight. When it comes to our T2 night serum, for example, our estheticians, when we started working with them, just really push the importance of exfoliation, needing to be a part of this brand. And if we wanted to achieve true hair health, wellness, exfoliation had to be a regular part of the system. Their recommendation was lactic acid. So we knew that lactic, lactic acid, it's inactive, it's proven, it's a, it's a gentle exfoliant. But just because it works really well on your facial skin doesn't mean that it's going to work incredibly well on your scalp skin. And like you had said, you know, your scalp is actually so much more sensitive than your face that ages six times faster than your face does. There's more sebaceous glands, there's more follicles. So it's a bit more advanced, actually, if you think about it. So it wasn't as simple as saying, oh, we need exfoliation, we need to add in lactic acid. It was, you know, let's work with our cosmetic chemist on how we can make sure that we can apply this ingredient safely to the scalp to actually empower, you know, a healthy hair environment. So, so in doing this and knowing we wanted to have that action of exfoliation and have, you know, the, the ingredient of lactic acid be used. When we spoke with our cosmetic chemist, they recommended, you know, let's pair this with something that will provide extra nourishment at the same time, like jojoba oil. So we were able to combine jojoba oil with lactic acid into this formula, which meant that as, you know, as it's working and it's gently exfoliating, it's also nourishing at the same time. So it's really taking away any of those, you know, any of that kind of irritation that could potentially happen, taking away or just calming it. I think that's an example of where, you know, we wanted to make sure that we had something that worked clinically, but it was also gentle enough for scalp application. With that same example with our T2 night serum, the overnight exfoliator. The other thing that was amazing and how I love how the product development, I guess, methodology of Nutria came to life was, you know, working with, with, you know, working with our, our estheticians and then working with cosmetic chemists and then having them bring us, bring to us like the most, you know, advanced type of technologies that we could possibly Use in this situation, the chemist came to us and said, you know, they introduced us to something called nutrient balance. And this is this really amazing encapsulation technology that allows a slow release of these actives overnight. So with. With all these great things, we had lactic acid, we had the ide idea of. Of exfoliation from skincare principles. And we have this technology that could time release. We combine all of these things together into the night serum. So it's called the night serum because you can put it in at night and it actually time releases working over eight hours, if you're really lucky, and you get eight hours of sleep while you sleep, time releasing those. Those actives into your scalp and exfoliating and nourishing, you know, the entire time you're sleeping.
- [25:31]
Dani Pellegrino
Right. No, that's really fascinating, actually, the time release aspect, because I was wondering about that. I was. I mean, lactic acid is. Was actually a really great choice. I really like lactic acid overall in all ways. So that's very interesting that you guys use that. And time release is really interesting as well, because that was one of my questions was how do you avoid sensitization of the scalp? You know, but that makes sense.
- [25:53]
Kristen Chase
Exactly. It's like you're getting these, you know, these slow little releases of ingredients throughout the night. And yeah, lactic acid, I mean, it's a great gentle chemical exfoliant. We also use it in our. Our S3A balanced shampoo, which is for oily scallops. And that helps to sort of moderate the production of sebum on the scalp too. So. Yeah, it's a. It's a great ingredient. We've used it in a few things throughout this line.
- [26:18]
Dani Pellegrino
That's really exciting. I mean, I'm a huge fan. I think the products are so well balanced in terms of, like, what I personally need as a consumer. I've been loving them. The both of the serums, by the way, are amazing. I've really enjoyed, you know, testing them, trying them. And for anyone out there who's looking for, you know, something to use that's going to help you on this journey of figuring out what your routine is for your hair, I think this is a really great brand to get you there and to kind of, you know, I think we have to train our bodies, you know, in a lot of ways. And the scalp is no different than the skin when it comes to that. We speak a lot about this in skin health, right, where we're like, well, you have to get used to using exfoliation. You have to get used to using certain products and, and understanding what that routine entails for you to get the results you want. And I think the scalp is definitely the same. And so when you're approaching it from that standpoint, I think Nutria has wonderful offerings, you know, in, in this category. So I really urge everyone listening, check out the brand. But this has been so wonderful. Kristen, thank you so much for, for sharing your chair with us. Any. Is there anything new on the horizon that you guys are working on, maybe that you could share?
- [27:23]
Kristen Chase
I mean, we're just getting started. We, I can't share anything specific yet, but we're really trying to work on innovations that, that stay true to Nutrier's mission. Really rethinking how we can care for hair by starting at the scalp. As we've been discussing, everything we do is rooted in science. It's designed to support long term sustainable hair growth whether it's like a new format or a new, you know, targeted treatment. Our north store is really creating thoughtful, efficacious products that meet consumers where they are on their hair wellness journey. So thank you so much for the time today.
- [27:56]
Dani Pellegrino
Thank you so much. And for everyone listening, if you guys have any questions about the brand, we're going to be linking the website and the links in the show notes of this episode. So make sure you scroll down and check that out. But thank you so much and I'll be back.
- [28:12]
Warby Parker Ad
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- [28:43]
Dani Pellegrino
Hi, it's Dani Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. And I couldn't help but wonder when is the official and just like that podcast coming back? Well, it's back, baby. And just like that is back on Max. And so is the official podcast each week on and just like that, the writers room join writer, director and executive producer Michael Patrick King as he unpacks every episode after it airs on Max. Listen to and just like that, the writers room on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:14]
Warby Parker Ad
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- [29:19]
Kristen Chase
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- [29:45]
Dani Pellegrino
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