The Four Day Work Week | 147

Summary

Podcast Summary: Skip Montreux – Down to Business English

Episode 147: The Four Day Work Week
Date: December 2, 2018
Hosts: Skip Montreux & Des Morgan

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Overview

This episode explores the emerging movement toward a four day work week in the UK, examining its possible benefits for productivity, health, and society. Skip and Des discuss cultural and regulatory differences in work practices between the UK and other countries like France and Japan, analyze sector-specific implications, and consider wider themes like automation, work-life balance, and labor policy. The episode also features a "Down to Vocabulary" segment to aid business English learners with relevant terms.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Current Affairs and Transitions

• The hosts briefly touch on Brexit and US politics, setting up the episode’s main topic by discussing workplace transitions and comparing different countries' approaches to working hours.
  • Quote (Des Morgan, 04:39): “I don't think the transition from being in the EU to being outside will be painless for the UK somehow.”
• The segue to the main theme starts with a note on the long British work week compared to the rest of the EU.

2. The UK’s Long Working Hours vs. Productivity

• The average British work week is longer than in France, yet British productivity lags behind.
  • Quote (Skip Montreux, 06:21): “Although the average British worker does work longer hours than his or her French counterpart, for some reason they are less productive.”
• Factors:
  • Brits often take only a 35-minute lunch and do about 10 hours of overtime weekly (06:35).
  • France, meanwhile, has instituted laws making it illegal to check work emails outside business hours to combat burnout and encourage flexible work (07:05).

3. Effects of Long Hours: Burnout and Health Costs

• Overwork in the UK has clear health ramifications:
  • Over half a million UK employees were signed off due to work-related stress/anxiety in the previous year (08:08).
  • Resulted in 12.5 million lost working days and an estimated cost of 4.5% of UK GDP (08:31).

4. The Four Day Work Week Movement

• Proponents, such as Frances O’Grady (Trades Union Congress), argue that growing automation means companies can—and should—share productivity gains with workers (08:55).
• Real-world example: PR firm Radioactive PR saw a surge in job applications after moving to a four day week (09:19).
• Sector differences:
  • Tech and PR are leading, where productivity trumps hours worked.
  • Public sector faces obstacles—shift work and fiscal constraints make a four day week unlikely without raising taxes (09:52).

5. Fairness and Future of Work

• Discussion on underemployment, zero-hour contracts, and youth unemployment:
  • Quote (Des Morgan, 10:28): “Yeah, I guess it would be a lot fairer if the work was divided amongst the people more evenly...”
• Activist Aidan Harper campaigns for a four day week as universal law, drawing historic parallels to the union-driven reduction from a six to a five day week (10:39–11:05).

6. Global Perspective: Could the Four Day Week Spread?

• Hosts are skeptical about adoption in Japan and the UAE due to cultural and practical barriers around time off and work norms (11:23–11:46).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It just goes to prove that sometimes less is more.”
  – Des Morgan, discussing the counterintuitive productivity stats (06:50)

• “France brought in a law last year that made it illegal for a company to expect employees to check work emails outside of business hours.”
  – Skip Montreux, highlighting cultural approaches to work-life balance (07:05)

• “As you might imagine, the additional hours worked in Britain are having a detrimental effect on the nation's health.”
  – Skip Montreux, on health consequences of overwork (08:08)

• “There's this guy in Britain, Aidan Harper, who runs the four day week campaign and he wants the four day week to be a universal law.”
  – Skip Montreux, on policy advocacy (10:39)

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Important Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |---------------------------------------------|-----------------------| | Episode Introduction/Chit-chat | 02:23 - 04:49 | | Introduction to Four Day Work Week Topic | 04:49 - 05:55 | | Productivity & Overtime in UK vs France | 06:21 - 07:54 | | Health Effects & Cost of Overwork | 08:08 - 08:49 | | Four Day Week Advocates & Real-World Example| 08:55 - 09:43 | | Sector Limitations and Economic Fairness | 09:52 - 10:39 | | Four Day Week Campaign & Legal Push | 10:39 - 11:17 | | Global Application: Japan/UAE | 11:23 - 11:48 | | Down to Vocabulary Segment | 12:27 - 16:08 | | Closing Thoughts on Automation/Future | 17:00 - 17:32 |

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Down to Vocabulary Highlights

Business English focus words, explained with context and humor:

• Transition: Shift from one state or activity to another; e.g., Brexit, changing careers (12:27–13:00).
• Productive/Productivity: Amount of output per unit of input/time; discussed in context of UK/France (13:13–13:34).
• Burnout: Exhaustion from overwork; French law to prevent this, Japan’s “karoshi” (13:52–14:18).
• Detrimental: Causing harm; long work hours’ effects (14:21–15:10).
• Universal: Applicable to all; as in a universal four day workweek or health care (15:33–16:11).

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The conversation is conversational, witty, and relatable, using anecdotes and humor to explain serious business trends.
• The hosts are cautiously optimistic about the potential benefits of a four day workweek, but realistic about barriers, especially outside progressive industries.
• Emphasis on the importance of fairness, health, and using technology/automation gains to benefit workers’ lives.

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Memorable Closing

• Des and Skip note the connection between technological advancement and reduced workload, alluding to the "Fourth Industrial Revolution."
• They reflect on whether a four day workweek will become reality, and note that change happens slowly and unevenly across different sectors and cultures.
• The “Down to Vocabulary” segment doubles as practical English study, linking language, business concepts, and global trends.

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For Business English learners and professionals alike, this episode offers a balanced, insightful look at a significant workplace issue, peppered with practical vocabulary and real-world examples.

Transcript

[Skip Montreux]

Hi everyone, Skip Montreux here with a short announcement about the extended down to Business English Black Friday Cyber Monday sale. From now until Monday, December 10th, we are offering a 60% discount on a one year non recurring D2B executive director membership. Now you might be asking what is in a D2B executive director membership and that is a very good question. There are three main benefits. First Member Only Podcasts. This is something we started a little while ago. Once or twice a month Des and I, or Samantha and I put out a podcast that is available only to our members. The second benefit is complete access to the entire audioscript library that goes all the way back to our very first episode. Members can log in at any time and download the audio script to any one of our 147 episodes. And the third, and what I personally think is one of the most convenient benefits, is instant delivery of audio scripts for newly released episodes. As soon as a new episode is posted, we send all of our members a link to the audio script for that episode. Members no longer need to visit the website, log in and find the audio script in the library. If you ask me, that is super convenient. So if you find down to Business English useful in your Business English self studies, take advantage of this time limited offer and support the show. All you have to do is visit our website at down to businessenglish.com and click on the Big Buy now button at the top of the page. Remember this offer ends on Monday, December 10th. Now on with the show.

[Narrator/Announcer]

From Tokyo, Japan and Abu Dhabi, uae this is down to Business English Business News to improve your Business English with your hosts Skip Montreux and Des Morgan.

[Skip Montreux]

Hello ez, Good to be recording with you today. How are things on your end?

[Des Morgan]

Yes, not bad. Coming up for the winter holidays so that will be nice. Leave the beautiful sunshine of Abu Dhabi and head back to gray cloudy days in Britain.

[Skip Montreux]

I can imagine. I wouldn't want to leave Japan for a cold snowy Canada at the moment, that's for sure.

[Des Morgan]

Well, there's one good thing about gray cloudy days though.

[Skip Montreux]

Oh, what's that?

[Des Morgan]

Well, you get more time to spend inside and have a few uninterrupted hours to catch up on the news.

[Skip Montreux]

I suppose that is true enough. There certainly is a lot going on in the world at the moment. Sure is midterm elections and as anticipated the Democrats took the House of Representatives. That will make it harder for President Trump to get some of the things done that he has been planning to.

[Des Morgan]

We could easily do a whole show on this topic alone, but I'm guessing that listeners already hear enough about Trump. Hey, I know that I do.

[Skip Montreux]

I would agree. And here at D2B we have been trying to stay away from too much Trump news. President Trump did this or President Trump did that. But you know what? It's not easy.

[Des Morgan]

Definitely not easy. Being the President of the United States and being so focused on putting American business first. He has an influence on almost any global news topic.

[Skip Montreux]

And let's not forget the wonderful world of Brexit. A lot going on there too at the moment.

[Des Morgan]

Yeah, progress had been made the last time I looked. But given that the alternative is a no deal Brexit, then hey, anything's progress.

[Skip Montreux]

Next year is the deadline though, isn't it?

[Des Morgan]

Yes, it is. March 2019 at least. The process needs to be in place by then. Although there will no doubt be a period where Britain is still in the trading bloc for a time. A transition period is the best way to describe it.

[Skip Montreux]

I remember when I transitioned from teaching at colleges and universities to teaching business English. Same teaching philosophy, but quite a few new teaching strategies to learn, but an enjoyable experience nonetheless.

[Des Morgan]

I don't think the transition from being in the EU to being outside will be painless for the UK somehow.

[Skip Montreux]

Hopefully it will all be worth it.

[Des Morgan]

We shall see. One thing I don't see improving is the work week in the uk. Did you know the British work the most hours per week out of all other EU countries?

[Skip Montreux]

As a matter of fact, Des, yes, I did know that.

[Des Morgan]

Really?

[Skip Montreux]

And what might surprise you even more is the story we are covering today is about just that.

[Des Morgan]

Well, I'm really surprised. Skip you.

[Skip Montreux]

You are such a cool cucumber. Des, I am.

[Des Morgan]

Go ahead, try me.

[Skip Montreux]

Okay. Today I am going to report on a growing movement for companies in the UK to move from a five day to a four day work week.

[Des Morgan]

Okay, I am a little surprised.

[Skip Montreux]

Great. But I'm sure it will wear off.

[Des Morgan]

Yep, I think it already has.

[Skip Montreux]

Okay, so let's do it. Let's get D2B down to business with the four day workweek. Why is it a good thing? Who is introducing it and will it become more common in the future?

[Des Morgan]

Well, I can answer the first of those questions.

[Skip Montreux]

Go for it. Why is a four day work week such a good thing?

[Des Morgan]

Well, it's because you go home on Thursday evening and you don't have to come back to work till Monday morning.

[Skip Montreux]

Thanks for that, Des, but I should have asked why is a four day workweek good for the economy?

[Des Morgan]

Oh, from the perspective of the economy, yes.

[Skip Montreux]

Now Although the average British worker does work longer hours than his or her French counterpart, for some reason they are less productive.

[Des Morgan]

Yes, I have heard about Britain's productivity problem.

[Skip Montreux]

On average, Brits are take only a 35 minute lunch break and frequently work 10 hours of overtime every week. And yet they produce less than the French worker who is working considerably fewer hours.

[Des Morgan]

It just goes to prove that sometimes less is more.

[Skip Montreux]

Well said Des. And get this. France brought in a law last year that made it illegal for a company to expect employees to check work emails outside of business hours.

[Des Morgan]

So not before or after work.

[Skip Montreux]

Yes, the idea is for workers to be able to work flexibly, but also to avoid burnout.

[Des Morgan]

Well, flexibility definitely helps. I usually work in the evenings till around 8, but I really enjoy having the mornings free at home.

[Skip Montreux]

I wish I could enjoy that kind of flexibility.

[Des Morgan]

It is nice. I do have to say so myself. So I guess that French law makes the regulation of work hours a bit difficult.

[Skip Montreux]

Surprisingly, only 60% of French workers were in favor of that new law. The other 40% said they were happy to send and receive emails in the evening but really needed or wanted to be free in the afternoon from 3 to 5 when they collected their kids from school.

[Des Morgan]

As a father of a four year old, I completely concur.

[Skip Montreux]

I thought you would. Now you getting back to the uk?

[Des Morgan]

Do we have to? Can't we stay in France? Maybe go to a restaurant, have a steak, glass of red wine?

[Skip Montreux]

No Des, back to the story. As you might imagine, the additional hours worked in Britain are having a detrimental effect on the nation's health. More than half a million workers in the UK were signed off by the doctor with work related stress or anxiety last year.

[Des Morgan]

I don't doubt that if you add

[Skip Montreux]

up all that lost productivity, it amounts to 12.5 million working days. And while it is difficult to quantify the financial cost of this, a 2014 study put it at nearly 4.5% of UK GDP.

[Des Morgan]

Bring on the four day work week then. Will bringing on a four day work week improve the situation?

[Skip Montreux]

Francis O', Grady, the General Secretary of the British Trades Union Congress, is certainly in favour of it. She argues that companies are becoming ever more profitable due to increased automation and it is prime time for those companies to share a bit of the success with workers.

[Des Morgan]

And some companies have introduced the four day week.

[Skip Montreux]

A few have, mostly in the tech sector and public relations jobs where productivity is more valued than the hours that employees work. One such company, Radioactive pr, went to a four day workweek last year. And this is the Interesting part, they have been inundated with applications for jobs since they made the change.

[Des Morgan]

So in other words, if you make the work more attractive by reducing the working week, you will attract better staff. Yeah, makes sense.

[Skip Montreux]

In other sectors, however, like the public sector, a four day work week is extremely unlikely, especially in jobs where people work in shifts. If they went to a four day week, the government would have to increase taxes to pay for more staff.

[Des Morgan]

And no one wants to pay more taxes?

[Skip Montreux]

Not in the least. The other point to consider is, even though a lot of people are overworked, there are a lot of other people who are underemployed, especially amongst the youth, many of whom who are on zero hours contracts.

[Des Morgan]

Yeah, I guess it would be a lot fairer if the work was divided amongst the people more evenly, with the result being that everyone who wants to work gets the opportunity.

[Skip Montreux]

There's this guy in Britain, Aidan Harper, who runs the four day week campaign and he wants the four day week to be a universal law. Oh, wow.

[Des Morgan]

And why is he pushing for that?

[Skip Montreux]

He argues that it used to be that everyone worked six days until trade unions negotiated it down to five days and it is now time for us to renegotiate our working hours down to four days.

[Des Morgan]

Well, a lot has changed over the years, so that argument does sound reasonable, especially given the fact that we're expected to check emails even on our days off. Unless you work in France, of course.

[Skip Montreux]

I know that. I often monitor my work emails on my own time.

[Des Morgan]

So, Skip, do you think the four day week will ever come to Japan?

[Skip Montreux]

I would say that is very, very unlikely. Workers here have a hard time using up their paid holidays as it is. I can't see them ever limiting their work weeks to only four days. How about the uae?

[Des Morgan]

Yeah, again, not very likely.

[Skip Montreux]

We can hope, I suppose, but now it is time for us to get D2V. Down to vocabulary,

[Narrator/Announcer]

Down to business. English audio scripts are a great learning tool. Be sure to visit the D2B website and download your free audio script of today's podcast. Downtobusinessenglish.com that's www.downtobusinessenglish.com.

[Des Morgan]

I will start us off today with the verb and noun transition, which means to move from one place, job or task to another. In the story, I spoke about Britain's transition from being in the EU to

[Skip Montreux]

being independent, and I used the verb form when I transitioned from teaching in colleges to teaching in the corporate sector. A further example from the world of business would be Elon Musk's Transition from being CEO of Tesla to not being CEO, I guess.

[Des Morgan]

Well, it'll probably work out better as now he can focus more on other projects rather than the mundane day to day running of the company.

[Skip Montreux]

Less time to tweet though.

[Des Morgan]

That's probably a good thing.

[Skip Montreux]

Perhaps. I will now introduce the adjective to be productive. In its noun form, productivity means the amount of work that someone does in a given time. In the story, I use the adjective form when I said that on the whole British workers were not very productive

[Des Morgan]

and the country with the highest productivity in the world is Luxembourg.

[Skip Montreux]

I did not know that.

[Des Morgan]

And it's also the country with the highest divorce rate. Do you think those two facts are linked in some way, Skip?

[Skip Montreux]

I cannot see how, but maybe it's just a coincidence.

[Des Morgan]

I'm sure you're right. Next we have the noun and verb burnout, which means to collapse due to overwork or too much stress. In the story, Skip said that France had outlawed answering emails outside of working hours to avoid burnout.

[Skip Montreux]

Here in Japan there is even a word for death from overwork, karoshi. I guess it means extreme burnout.

[Des Morgan]

And how close to karoshi are you, Skip?

[Skip Montreux]

I think that I am okay for now. Moving on, I will discuss the adjective detrimental, which means to cause harm. In the story, I said that the long working hours are having a detrimental effect on British workers.

[Des Morgan]

In other words, the long working hours are causing harm.

[Skip Montreux]

Are you working a lot of hours these days, Des?

[Des Morgan]

Not at the moment. In fact, I can finish at lunchtime on Thursdays, which is great because then I can go cycling.

[Skip Montreux]

Good for you. And I know that your shorter hours are having a beneficial effect on your health.

[Des Morgan]

That's true.

[Skip Montreux]

Can you give us another example of detrimental, Des?

[Des Morgan]

Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book called Blink in 2005 about the detrimental effect of overthinking things.

[Skip Montreux]

Ah, Malcolm Gladwell. He is a fellow countryman of mine and that is a great book. I read it a few years ago and in it Gladwell said that a person's first instinctual reaction was usually the correct one. If you thought too much about something, you would most often do something wrong.

[Des Morgan]

I will finish vocabulary today with the adjective universal, which means when a rule or policy is applicable to everyone. In the story, Skip said that Aidan Harper wants a four day work week to be universal for every worker in the uk.

[Skip Montreux]

Universal is often used when talking about health care. Most developed countries have some form of universal health care where every person in the country has health care. And it was what President Obama was trying to bring to America.

[Des Morgan]

Although his Obamacare was not universal health

[Skip Montreux]

care was it true, but Obamacare was seen to be a way of transitioning

[Des Morgan]

towards Seems to be we're slipping backwards again under the current President.

[Skip Montreux]

You would think people would have Trump burnout by now.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Would you like to support down to Business English? Be sure to visit the D2B page in iTunes and subscribe to this show. While you are there, why don't you leave a rating and a comment. This will help the D2B reach more people wanting to improve their business English skills. Down to Business English Business News to improve your business English.

[Des Morgan]

Thanks for that report on the four day work week Skip.

[Skip Montreux]

My pleasure, Des.

[Des Morgan]

I hope to see a system like that implemented at some point in the not so distant future.

[Skip Montreux]

I do think it has some merits and with the advent of AI and autonomous technology there is less and less for workers to do.

[Des Morgan]

You're talking about the fourth Industrial Revolution. Didn't you and Samantha do an episode on that last year?

[Skip Montreux]

We did, but it might be time for an update.

[Des Morgan]

Ah, that's a good idea.

[Skip Montreux]

Just before we get out of here today, I want to remind everyone that time is running out to take advantage of down to Business English's Black Friday Cyber Monday sale.

[Des Morgan]

Oh yes, it finishes on Monday, December 10th.

[Skip Montreux]

That's right. And until then, our one year D2B executive director membership is on sale for only $29.99. That's a 60% discount off the regular price of $75.

[Des Morgan]

And that comes with all of the benefits of full membership.

[Skip Montreux]

It sure does. First, complete access to the complete audioscript

[Des Morgan]

library, which has 147 audio scripts.

[Skip Montreux]

147 and counting. Second, full access to members only podcasts,

[Des Morgan]

which we are trying to put out twice a month.

[Skip Montreux]

And third, members are emailed audio scripts for new episodes as soon as they are released.

[Des Morgan]

So anyone who's a member today will receive the audio script for this episode emailed to them as soon as we release the podcast.

[Skip Montreux]

No need to visit the website and go to the trouble of signing in

[Des Morgan]

and all that for the low price of $29.99. Sounds like a fantastic deal.

[Skip Montreux]

I think so.

[Des Morgan]

So how do listeners take advantage of D2B's Black Friday Cyber Monday sale?

[Skip Montreux]

All they need to do is visit the down to Business english website@downto businessenglish.com click on the big banner at the top of the page that says Black Friday Cyber Monday Sale buy.

[Des Morgan]

Now that's downto businessenglish.com click on the big Buy now button at the top of the page.

[Skip Montreux]

That's it. Just remember that this offer expires on Monday, December 10, so don't miss out.

[Des Morgan]

Sounds good.

[Skip Montreux]

Well, that does it for today's episode of down to Business English. Thanks for listening everyone. See you next time.

[Des Morgan]

Bye Bye.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Have a comment or question about today's show? Don't be shy. Visit the D2B website or the Facebook page and post any comments or questions there. Skip Des or Samat there will be sure to leave a reply. Want to get even more down to Business English? Sign up for the D2B Newsletter and receive updates on some of the stories covered on down to business English. That's www.downtobusinessenglish.com down to business English Business News to improve your business English.