Podcast Summary: Slate Money | "A Second Gold Toilet!?" (November 1, 2025)

Episode Overview

Hosted by Felix Salmon, with co-hosts Emily Peck and Elizabeth Spiers, this episode of Slate Money rounds up key stories in business and finance. Major topics include OpenAI’s transformation into a public benefit corporation (and what that actually means), growing health insurance costs and the government shutdown, and the curious tale of a solid gold toilet coming to auction. The hosts also bring their signature wit and skepticism, offering insights, spirited debate, and cultural context—plus a healthy dose of banter.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. OpenAI: From Nonprofit to Public Benefit Corporation

Segment Start: 00:45

• Background: OpenAI, started as a nonprofit focused on “safe AGI” (Artificial General Intelligence), is now a for-profit public benefit corporation (PBC)—a rare and complex transformation.

  • Felix Salmon: “A nonprofit charity, 501c3 can, with enough lawyers and effort, actually become a for-profit company. I don't think I've really seen this before.” [01:10]
  • 25% of OpenAI remains owned by the nonprofit, rest is in standard shareholding.
  • Potential IPO likely in 2026 or 2027.

• Criticism of ‘Public Benefit’ Status:

  • Emily Peck: “Where's the public benefit with this company? ...Does this company do anything that benefits the public?” [03:32]
  • Host reference to negative impacts: “ChatGPT, the product... drives people to psychosis and in some instances, even murder... the percentages were small, but it was in the tens of thousands of people.” [04:50]
  • Noted new data: 0.07% of users weekly show symptoms of mental health emergencies—560,000 people. [12:40]
  • Board overlap between nonprofit and for-profit raises skepticism over true oversight.

• Structural Details:

  • PBC status imposes minimal actual constraints: “If you ever want to stop being a PBC, all you need to say is we are no longer a PBC...” [07:07]
  • Distinction between “B Corps” (certified) and PBCs (self-designated) explored.

• Governance & Motives:

  • Elizabeth Spiers notes, “It's just a form of corporate ownership, that's all.” [08:37]
  • Board includes figures like Larry Summers and Brett Taylor, not exactly public-interest crusaders.
  • Brett Taylor (ex-Twitter board) called out for prioritizing profit: “I'm not going to place any faith whatsoever in Brett Taylor and Larry Summers to draw the line at getting revenues from selling ads against ChatGPT results.” [17:56]

• Sam Altman’s Compensation & Interests:

  • CEO Sam Altman receives a small salary ($72K/yr), holds no equity in OpenAI itself, but is connected to multiple ventures.
  • “He does have a predilection for very fast cars which I'm sure he just buys by borrowing money from his, you know, from a bank rather than actually having to declare income.” [15:15]

• Nonprofit’s Future Role:

  • Potential for the nonprofit arm to eventually direct billions to ‘good causes’ post-IPO, but past giving was modest.

Memorable Quotes:

• “The whole point of a public benefit corporation is that the corporation qua corporation should act in the public benefit. Just because some percentage of its equity is owned by a charity does not make the corporation a good corporation.” —Felix Salmon [05:31]
• “It’s the same company, maybe with operating with a slight more freedom to do things like work on ChatGPT versus work on curing cancer and things like that.” —Emily Peck [09:36]

2. Health Insurance Costs and Marketplace Subsidies

Segment Start: 25:43

• Rising Premiums: Insurance purchased through ACA (Obamacare) exchanges will see an average premium rise of 24% next year.

  • Emily Peck explains the “perfect storm”: “Health insurance prices are going up, subsidies are going down, and that's playing off of each other. And it's creating this, like, perfect storm of, like, everyone spends more money on healthcare.” [27:17]

• Subsidy Expiration & Political Deadlock:

  • Temporary pandemic-era subsidies are expiring, causing more pain for those near the poverty line or ineligible for Medicare.
  • Felix Salmon: “This is... basically the one and only necessary and sufficient single issue that is overarching the entire government shut down meshuggahs.” [29:07]

• Structure of Subsidies and Market Effects:

  • When costs rise, healthy customers exit, risk pool skews, triggering price spiral.
  • Employers and employees receive large, “invisible” tax breaks on employer-backed coverage; less visible than ACA subsidies.

• Societal Attitudes:

  • The U.S. acceptance of large uninsured population is seen as a “Hobbesian bargain.” [34:41]
  • Elizabeth Spiers: “There's something built into the American ethos where success is considered a mark of character, good character, and poverty is considered a mark of bad character.” [36:24]

Memorable Quotes:

• “I saw a stat somewhere that said the average family is paying 35 grand a year for health insurance now and just as a portion of income, when you consider median income in this country, that's crazy.” —Elizabeth Spiers [32:13]
• “It's really interesting because with the subsidies in 21, it really seemed like we were closer to achieving kind of the dream of the Affordable Care act and Obamacare... and now it kind of seems like everything's in question.” —Emily Peck [33:48]

3. The Golden Toilet Returns!

Segment Start: 40:07

• Maurizio Cattelan’s Solid Gold Toilet (“America”):

  • Originally installed at the Guggenheim, used by 100,000 visitors (“lined up for hours to be able to take a shit in this solid gold toilet” —Felix Salmon [40:14])
  • Stolen from Blenheim Castle in the UK, presumed melted down.

• A Second Gold Toilet Emerges:

  • Cattelan's gallery had sold a second, identical gold toilet and it's now coming up for auction at Sotheby’s.
  • Bullion value alone is about $10 million, due to gold prices’ rise.
  • Emily: “I like this better than the banana in that it has that intrinsic value, whereas the banana...is pretty cheap, right? This has real value...” [42:09]

• Conceptual Art Context:

  • Discussed art history: Marcel Duchamp’s urinal (“Fountain”) and Piero Manzoni’s “shit of the artist.”
  • Felix Salmon: “There is a sort of, shall we call it, scatological tradition in conceptual art.” [45:39]

• Speculation and Humor:

  • Possible buyers include crypto-mogul Justin Sun; payment accepted in crypto.
  • Jokes about the ultimate American Thanksgiving centerpiece: “What's more American than going to the bathroom after a big Thanksgiving meal and using a golden toilet to do it?” —Emily Peck [48:43]
  • Anecdote: Museum offered to lend “America” the toilet (not the painting) to the Trump White House.

Memorable Quotes:

• “He made a 18 karat gold, fully functional gold toilet. He installed it in the Guggenheim for a year. A hundred thousand people lined up for hours to be able to take a shit in this solid gold toilet.” —Felix Salmon [40:14]
• “If Duchamp's urinal went up for auction because it's Duchamp's urinal and not my urinal, it would be worth tens of millions of dollars, right?” —Felix Salmon [45:11]

4. Numbers Round

Segment Start: 51:15

• Emily’s Number: 2
  • Two Bill de Blasios (former NYC Mayor and a Long Island wine importer)
• Felix’s Number: 136,000 yen (~$895)
  • Cost of the “Grace Delight Tote” handbag, now an “it” item in Japan after the PM was spotted with it.
• Elizabeth’s Number: $59.99
  • Price of a K-Pop Demon Hunter costume at Spirit Halloween, now a sold-out cult hit.

Notable Banter:

• Obscure book pitches ("viral 67 Halloween costume" couple writes finance book)
• “I don't think you get rich by having your photograph of your...And by the way, the reason it went viral is because everyone was laughing at it and the kids all hate it.” —Felix Salmon [56:44]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | Speaker | |-----------|-------|---------| | 03:32 | “Where's the public benefit with this company?... Does this company do anything that benefits the public?” | Emily Peck | | 05:31 | “The whole point of a public benefit corporation is that the corporation qua corporation should act in the public benefit. Just because some percentage of its equity is owned by a charity does not make the corporation a good corporation.” | Felix Salmon | | 12:40 | “0.07% of ChatGPT users...exhibit signs of mental health emergencies...that’s 560,000 people, more or less.” | Emily Peck | | 27:17 | “Health insurance prices are going up, subsidies are going down, and that's playing off of each other. And it's creating this, like, perfect storm of, like, everyone spends more money on healthcare.” | Emily Peck | | 32:13 | “I saw a stat somewhere...the average family is paying 35 grand a year for health insurance now and just as a portion of income...that's crazy.” | Elizabeth Spiers | | 40:14 | “A hundred thousand people lined up for hours to be able to take a shit in this solid gold toilet.” | Felix Salmon | | 45:39 | “There is a sort of, shall we call it, scatological tradition in conceptual art.” | Felix Salmon | | 48:43 | “What's more American than going to the bathroom after a big Thanksgiving meal and using a golden toilet to do it?” | Emily Peck |

Important Timestamps

• 00:45 – 24:43: OpenAI, nonprofits vs. public benefit corporations, AI harms
• 25:43 – 40:07: Health insurance premiums, subsidies, government shutdown
• 40:07 – 51:15: The saga of the gold toilet, art market absurdities
• 51:15 – end: Numbers round – “Bill de Blasio” mix-up and viral handbags/costumes

Tone and Style

The hosts maintain a sharp, conversational, and often irreverent tone. Complex topics are unpacked with humor and accessible analogies, punctuated by rants and moments of self-aware snark. Regular pop culture references and deep dives into the quirks of financial and art worlds keep even dry subjects lively.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

If you want to know how tech’s biggest sensation is redefining “public benefit,” why your insurance bills are skyrocketing, or how a functional gold toilet became the hottest lot at Sotheby’s—all with a side of sly humor—this episode delivers. The conversation moves quickly but is structured so that all major topics are examined from several angles, making for a rich and accessible window into the economic week that was.