Slate Money Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Apocalyptic Vibes
Date: June 29, 2019
Hosts: Felix Salmon (Axios), Emily Peck (Huffington Post), Anna Shymansky

Overview

This episode of Slate Money, titled "Apocalyptic Vibes," takes a frank and sometimes bleak look at key business and finance stories of the week. The hosts discuss the legacy and departure of Apple's iconic designer Jony Ive, protests at Wayfair over detention center sales, Bank of America's move away from private prison financing, and the risk of instability in the Chinese banking sector after the takeover of Baoshang Bank. The episode's tone is witty, sharp, and openly skeptical about the current trajectory of business, economics, and corporate ethics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jony Ive Leaves Apple: End of an Era (00:33–11:46)

• Jony Ive’s Departure:
  Jony Ive, Apple’s legendary design head and Steve Jobs’ close collaborator, announced his exit to start his own firm (“LoveFrom”), with Apple as an early client. Despite suggestions otherwise, the hosts view this as a significant split.

• Ive’s Legacy:

  • Credited with iconic Apple product designs: iMac, iPod, iPhone, Apple Watch, AirPods, and Apple Park.
  • "He made Apple look like Apple. Like the reason when I say Apple and you think of the ipod, the imac, the iPhone... that’s him." – Emily (03:30)
  • Brought collaboration and excellence to Apple’s design team, making design central to the company’s success.
  • Criticism: Public sometimes overlooks that big design comes from collaborative teams, not a single “cult of personality.”
  • Uncertainty about Apple’s future design leadership—should another superstar be hired or will Apple promote from within?

  “It’s unlikely that Jony Ive was going to design something as iconic at Apple in the future as he has in the past.” – Felix (06:06)

• Tidbits & Humor:

  • Jony Ive is one of GQ’s “100 most powerful bald men.” (10:01)
  • Amusement over an old photo of a be-mustached Ive; playful banter about baldness and personal style. (11:07)

2. Wayfair Walkout & Corporate Ethics in the Trump Era (11:46–21:11)

• Wayfair Walkout:
  Employees walked out after discovering the company was supplying furniture for detention centers holding migrant children, pushing the question of corporate responsibility.

  • Hosts debate whether supplying beds to such centers is moral complicity or basic human decency.

  "Wayfair is a furniture company, and they were selling, like, beds for children in these...concentration camps. You can call them whatever you like, but, like, that's good. I mean, they should have beds." – Felix (12:55)

  • Wayfair’s response—first neutral, then a Red Cross donation—seen as "tone deaf and stupid."

• Employee Activism:

  • Tech and “platform” company workers now expect ethical corporate behavior and want input.
  • Separating personal ethics from work is increasingly hard:

    "You can't separate yourself as a citizen and a political being from your job." – Emily (15:47)

• Corporate Political Stances:

  • Companies like Bank of America announce they’ll stop financing private prisons.
    • Motivation: Changing consumer/employee expectations, reputational risk, and possibly “cheap virtue” for an unpopular sector.
    • Hosts note a rising “liberal/conservative divide” among brands. (19:12)
  • Companies increasingly dragged into political debates—Nike, Chick-fil-A, Hobby Lobby, etc.

3. Baoshang Bank Takeover & Chinese Liquidity Risks (21:11–31:17)

• Baoshang Bank Collapse:

  • A midsize Chinese commercial bank was publicly taken over by regulators, sending shockwaves through China's interbank lending market.
  • Triggered fear among larger banks and a credit squeeze for mid-tier and smaller banks.

    "Its failure caused a certain ripple effect. The big Chinese banks...started going, we actually don't know what's going on under the hood of these medium sized banks." – Felix (21:56)

• Shadow Banking & Systemic Risk:
  Anna dives into shadow banking, off-balance sheet lending, and the illusion of healthy bank balance sheets:

  • Off-book lending inflates apparent bank health but conceals real risk.
  • False sense of security among investors and the market due to implicit government bailouts.

  "That is the type of behavior that causes bubbles and causes crises because people think that there's no actual risk." – Anna (25:06)

• China’s Economic Vulnerability:

  • Specter of 2008 financial crisis-style reckoning due to excessive, poorly scrutinized lending.
  • Existing discourse about China (from US politicians) misses the true nature of the financial risk.

  "At no point in history have we ever had a financial system where you can just create this level of debt without there being some type of consequence." – Anna (28:50)

• Global Implications:

  • Discussion references Richard Vague’s book on crises and the limits of debt expansion.
  • Anna underscores that no one fully knows how China will engineer a “soft landing.”

4. Numbers Round & Miscellaneous Segments (31:17–34:51)

• San Francisco Bans E-Cigarettes:

  • Emily: "Six" — months San Francisco merchants have to remove e-cigarettes, despite being JUUL's hometown. (31:21)
  • Debate on whether kids will just switch to cigarettes.

• Olive Oil Brand Loyalty:

  • Felix: "90%" of consumers can’t name their olive oil brand.

  "It's just there’s a brand that we are more or less loyal to... I can’t think of a single other thing where the product is used that much and that frequently...without any kind of branding or loyalty." – Felix (32:57)

• Austrian Century Bonds:

  • Anna: "1.2%" — yield on a 100-year Austrian government bond. (33:27)
  • Reflects the unusual and “apocalyptic” state of global fixed income markets, with $13T in negative-yielding sovereign debt (34:19).
  • Emily jokes: “I feel like I’m getting apocalyptic vibe from this whole episode, honestly...” (34:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Apple without Ive:
  “It’s designed by committee. Apple’s going to be destroyed.” – Anna, on fears about post-Ive design (05:53)
• On Wayfair's dilemma:
  “You can totally take sides and say, we are against putting children in cages. I think that's a fairly safe [bet].” – Felix (13:48)
• On the rise of employee activism:
  “A company…has to also care about its employees. When your employees come together to say they care very, very deeply about something…how your company reacts…is going to be a key part of how they feel about working for you.” – Felix (16:02)
• On China’s economic risks:
  “That’s how systems eventually collapse is because you’re not actually creating genuine wealth.” – Anna (27:13)
• On negative-yielding bonds:
  “It’s just another indication of how we are in such a weird economic place…” – Anna (33:57)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Introduction & Episode Overview: 00:10–01:33
• Jony Ive/Apple Segment: 01:33–11:46
• Wayfair / Private Prisons / Corporate Ethics: 11:46–21:11
• Baoshang Bank/China Financial Stability: 21:11–31:17
• Numbers Round (E-cigs, Olive Oil, Bonds): 31:17–34:51

Tone & Style

The show is irreverent, skeptical, and driven by the hosts' distinct personalities. They balance serious economic analysis with dry wit and cultural commentary, making each segment accessible to listeners with and without financial expertise.

For Listeners

If you missed this episode, expect candid, sometimes darkly funny conversations revealing the contradictions and failures of modern capitalism, global finance, and corporate ethics. You’ll come away with insight into Apple’s turning point, the dilemmas of companies entangled with “controversial” clients, and why China’s banking system is the quiet risk few politicians discuss.