Slate Money: "Cities and Coronavirus" — Detailed Episode Summary

Podcast: Slate Money
Episode Title: Cities and Coronavirus
Date: May 9, 2020
Host: Felix Salmon (Axios)
Guests: Emily Peck (HuffPost), Anna Shymansky (Breaking Views), Richard Florida (University of Toronto & NYU)

Overview

In this edition of Slate Money, Felix Salmon and co-hosts Emily Peck and Anna Shymansky are joined by urban theorist Richard Florida to dissect how the COVID-19 pandemic impacts cities — focusing on density, transit, supply chains, cultural life, and the prospects for post-pandemic urban recovery. The conversation balances hard data, lived urban experience, and speculation about how cities may change in the future, especially in response to fears around contagion, shifting work habits, and economic closure.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Has COVID-19 Hit Some Cities Harder? (00:40–06:01)

• Density as a Factor: Richard Florida clarifies that city density matters, but it's only one among many risk factors:

  “Density is a factor. It's positive and significant... more urban places have higher [COVID-19] incidents... But everything those critics said was probably accurate. It's one of many factors...” (02:38, Richard Florida)

• Supply Chains & People Flows: Urban centers like New York, Milan, and Detroit suffered due to being nodes in global supply chains, with frequent travel between hotspots.

  “It's not coming through the parts. It's coming through the people who are going — US workers going to China... Chinese workers coming to Milan... Milan is a global city and had Fashion Week.” (05:01, Richard Florida)

• Crowding vs. Density: The conversation shifts from simply counting bodies to considering social conditions like multigenerational homes, frontline/service workers, and access to private amenities—sharp contrasts exist between rich and poor within dense areas.

  “There's rich people density and poor people density. I'm sitting in a condominium... but if I was a frontline service worker, I'd have to go out and work.” (06:01, Richard Florida)

Other Contributing Factors:

• Age (older populations more at risk)
• Social capital (tight-knit communities may inadvertently aid viral spread)
• Transit infrastructure and commuting patterns
• Health factors (obesity, diabetes prevalence)
• Child population (cities like San Francisco have fewer children, possibly lowering risk)

2. The Problem with Transit and Elevators (09:29–18:50)

• Public Transit Fears: Regardless of scientific certainty, fear itself will suppress transit use. Jeffrey Harris’s MIT paper is cited as evidence subways may be important transmission vectors, particularly for neighborhoods with longer commutes.

  “I don't think the facts matter. I think people are going to be scared of trains and subways.” (10:15, Richard Florida)

• Short to Medium-Term Urban Changes: Cities worldwide are rapidly expanding bike lanes and pedestrian areas, both as a practical alternative and an answer to fear.
• Elevator Bottleneck: Even if people avoid transit, high-rise living has the unsolved elevator problem.

  “The big bottleneck is the elevator... You're gonna have queues all the way down the street...” (16:30, Richard Florida)

Mitigation Strategies:

• More remote work (up to 40% could persist)
• Staggered commutes
• Reconsidering suburban office parks for distributed work

3. Will the Pandemic Change Cities Permanently? (19:06–26:31)

• Historical Precedent: After pandemics (including the Spanish Flu and 1957 Asian flu), urbanization has always rebounded or accelerated.

  “Urbanization throughout the course of history has been a far stronger factor than infectious disease.” (20:06, Richard Florida)

• Class Shifts: Potential for affluent, risk-averse residents (e.g., "pied-à-terre people, aristocrats, oligarchs") to leave first, leading possibly to more affordable creative cultures reminiscent of earlier urban migrations.

  “The city will go back to something like it was... you could see like musicians and artists... move back there.” (22:37, Richard Florida)

• Caution Against Over-Optimism: Historically, hopes for a post-crisis "reset" leading to more equitable or creative cities have failed; instead, gentrification intensified.

  “We have to be careful... if this is over quickly, it may not be the automatic reset.” (24:44, Richard Florida)

4. Restaurants, Amenities, and Culture at Risk (26:31–30:43)

• Local Restaurants Face Extinction: Single-location restaurants (as opposed to chains) are most at risk; their loss disproportionately damages second- and third-tier cities that have recently thrived on food cultures.

  “If it goes away, it doesn't come back very quickly. You need all of the sort of cross-pollination going on in real time.” (27:54, Felix Salmon)

• Potential for "Creative Destruction": Some hope for a reinvention of the food scene, with more delivery innovation, but concerns remain about the resilience of cultural amenities.

5. Decentralization & Smaller Cities (30:43–33:54)

• Rising Appeal of Smaller Cities and College Towns: Remote work might let more people opt for mid-sized cities; cities like Austin, Nashville, and Tulsa benefit from inflows of talent seeking amenities without big city prices.
• Risks for These Cities: Job opportunities may lag, and college towns could suffer if universities remain closed.

6. The Role of Immigration and Global Flows (33:54–39:32)

• Immigration as an Urban Lifeline: Toronto is cited as a positive example; US cities may struggle to revive if immigration dries up.

  “What has kept our cities... alive in this country is a flow of people wanting the American dream. And it's quite clear that our current president and his supporters want to end that.” (34:27, Richard Florida)

• Geopolitical Shifts: Countries like Australia and New Zealand may become less global if travel remains highly restricted; places that remain open stand to attract talent otherwise destined for the US.

7. Numbers Round — The Pandemic by the Numbers (39:32–46:00)

Notable Statistics and Commentary:

• Women's Unemployment: 15.5% (Emily Peck, 39:38)

  “The economic devastation wrought by this crisis is really being felt by women in a way that we've just never seen before.”

• Federal Borrowing: $2.999 trillion in a single quarter (Felix Salmon, 41:44)
• Educated Workers' Unemployment: 8.4% for bachelor's degree holders, double previous recession highs (Richard Florida, 42:52)
• Temporary Unemployment: 18.1 million report as temporarily jobless (Anna Shymansky, 44:17)
• Workers Refusing to Return: In Ohio, 1,200 workers' names reported to state after refusing to return to work (Felix Salmon, 45:15)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On city density and pandemic risk:

  “Crowding is a big factor, not just density, if you live in a multi-generational household.” (06:01, Richard Florida)

• On shifting urban priorities:

  “The value of publicly sourced amenities is going to decline and you're going to want private amenity, but that might shift the balance to the productivity value of cities.” (29:15, Richard Florida)

• Reflection on post-9/11 and post-pandemic urban trends:

  “We have to be cautious this time, especially if this is over quickly. It may not be the automatic reset.” (24:44, Richard Florida)

• On the future of immigration:

  “If you're a city... you would have an opportunity to attract talent that probably you otherwise couldn't, that probably would have come to New York or L.A. or something.” (35:23, Richard Florida)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Introductions & Scope | 00:10–01:09 | | COVID in Cities — Why Some Get Hit Harder | 01:09–06:01 | | Supply Chains, People Flows, Intl. Comparisons | 04:37–06:01 | | Beyond Density: Crowding, Social, Health Factors | 06:01–09:29 | | Transit, Fear, and Urban Mobility | 09:29–13:07 | | Elevators as Urban Bottleneck | 16:30–18:50 | | Will City Life Survive? Historical Perspective | 20:06–24:27 | | Amenities & Cultural Destruction | 26:31–30:43 | | The Rise of Smaller Cities and College Towns | 30:43–33:54 | | Immigration and Global City Competition | 33:54–39:32 | | Numbers Round: Impact by the Numbers | 39:32–46:00 |

Conclusion

The episode offers a nuanced look at the drivers behind COVID-19’s disparate impact on cities, the complex ways in which urban life is likely to adapt, and the possible silver linings for both sprawling and smaller communities. Richard Florida’s historical perspective provides some optimism about the resilience of urbanization, tempered by realistic concerns over deep and lasting changes to city culture, affordability, and international mobility. The data-rich "numbers round" starkly underscores the scale and unevenness of the crisis.