Slate Money: "Everything is Concrete"
Date: July 3, 2021
Host: Felix Salmon (Axios)
Co-hosts: Stacey Marie Ishmael, Emily Peck (Fundrise)
Episode Overview
In this episode, the Slate Money team dives into three main, headline-grabbing themes:
- The business and controversy around Robinhood’s IPO and regulatory issues
- The pervasiveness and pitfalls of concrete in infrastructure, inspired by the tragic building collapse in Surfside, Florida
- Airbnb's handling of user safety scandals and its shifting role in the travel and real estate industries
The hosts balance sharp industry insights with personal anecdotes, humor, and pointed criticism, exploring how each topic reflects deeper issues in business, ethics, and modern life.
Key Discussions & Insights
1. Robinhood’s IPO, Fines, and Business Model
[01:30 – 21:42]
Filing & Regulatory Trouble
- Robinhood has made its S-1 (IPO prospectus) public, revealing financial details and exposing significant regulatory issues.
- Felix outlines Robinhood’s $70 million fine from FINRA, noting the “astonishing amount of incompetence” detailed by regulators:
“They just don’t rise to the level of basic competence that you would expect from a broker dealer. And yet here they are, they’re going public and they’re going to be worth a gazillion dollars.”
— Felix Salmon, [02:11]
The “Gamification” of Investing
- Average account size is just $240; only 18M of 31M accounts have any balance at all.
- Robinhood's appeal: It’s the platform to play with “fun money” — meme stocks, Dogecoin, etc.
“It’s giving you lots of notifications... and it’s not really investing as, like, old people like myself like to think of it... It’s this game where you’re like, I made 30 bucks today, and, oh no, I lost 40 bucks yesterday.”
— Felix Salmon, [11:15]
Payment for Order Flow Explained
- Robinhood’s principal revenue comes from selling order flow to high-frequency trading firms like Citadel.
“Citadel is willing to pay really quite very low spreads for that order flow because it knows that Robinhood’s traders, and this is a technical term, are morons.”
— Felix Salmon, [07:20] - Robinhood incentivized to maximize customer trades, directly opposing good investor outcomes.
Morality & Disruption in Finance
- Is Robinhood genuinely disruptive or just exploitative?
“It does what the old technology did at much lower quality but at a much, much lower price... something you can play on your phone.”
— Felix Salmon, [10:49] - Hosts highlight the disconnect between Robinhood’s incentives and its users’ financial interests.
Tragedy and Accountability
- The hosts reference the suicide of Alex Kearns, a Robinhood user, emphasizing the seriousness of the app’s design flaws and lack of proper support:
“Move fast and break things is all fun and games until it’s like a life and death situation.”
— Stacey Marie Ishmael, [12:23]
Culture of Avoidance
- Robinhood settles fines “without admitting wrongdoing," treating them as “cost of doing business" ([17:02]).
- The company maintains control post-IPO through a three-class share structure. Founders retain power even without majority economic ownership ([20:36]).
2. Concrete, Infrastructure, & the Surfside Collapse
[21:54 – 36:21]
Why Concrete Matters
- Felix shares personal experiences with noisy, crumbling concrete buildings, segueing to global dependency on reinforced concrete for infrastructure.
“There is almost no conceiving of what modern life could be without reinforced concrete... When you look at infrastructure, it’s all made of concrete."
— Felix Salmon, [23:01]
Concrete’s Lifespan and Failures
- Unlike Roman-era concrete (Pantheon), modern reinforced concrete typically lasts only 50–100 years due to steel rebar corrosion (“spalling”).
- The cost to repair concrete structures can exceed initial building costs.
Alternatives & Inertia in Construction
- Discussion of materials like bronzed aluminum rebar or hempcrete as possible alternatives.
- Construction industry is uniquely slow to adopt new techniques; productivity has stagnated for decades.
“Everyone else has been getting better. We are still using the same techniques to build apartment buildings now that we were 50 years ago...”
— Felix Salmon, [28:41]
Environmental & Climate Impacts
- Concrete’s environmental toll: repairs kick up damaging dust; demolishing is worse environmentally than repair ([32:16]).
- Climate change and poor initial build quality (especially in places like Miami in the 1980s) both exacerbate risks for concrete buildings.
Societal Incentives and Legacy
- Cheaply built, short-lived buildings are the norm because builders/developers rarely bear the long-term cost.
“Given the choice between spending more now and less in 75 years... we generally choose the latter option.”
— Felix Salmon, [35:22]
3. Airbnb: Shifting from Hippie Vision to Corporate Scandal
[36:21 – 47:37]
Airbn-breach: Payouts and Quiet Settlements
- Airbnb has reportedly paid millions to quiet stories of sexual assaults and other crimes at rentals.
- Felix and Emily emphasize the company’s preference to settle incidents quietly, rather than proactively improve safety features:
“They’d rather pay to cover up an incident like this than to fix the long-term infrastructure that could make it less likely that it happens.”
— Emily Peck, [38:17]
Arbitration & Transparency Issues
- Most users, via sign-up terms, waive rights to sue and must use private, confidential arbitration — masking the true frequency of serious incidents.
“We couldn’t possibly know because these cases don’t ever come to light because they’re automatically shushed up.”
— Emily Peck, [41:15]
Erosion of Trust and User Experience
- Hosts explore why many have drifted back to hotels: unpredictable fees, unreliable experiences, and trust breakdown.
“You need to enter the app with a feeling of mistrust and worry about... what is my experience going to be.”
— Felix Salmon, [42:46]
Airbnb’s Impact on Communities
- The spread of short-term rentals disrupts neighborhoods by raising rents and fostering party houses.
- Emily recounts a New Orleans neighborhood’s transformation:
“The day that we were broken was when my 6-year-old looked out the window and he was like, what is with that balloon?... it was the penis balloon...”
— Emily Peck, [46:24]
Resilience of the Platform
- Despite scandals and backlash, Airbnb’s business is booming (market cap: $93B), especially post-COVID.
Notable Quotes by Timestamp
-
On Robinhood users as easy targets:
“Citadel is willing to pay... because it knows that Robinhood’s traders, and this is a technical term, are morons.”
— Felix Salmon, [07:20] -
On disruptive tech:
“Robinhood is one of the few cases where it actually fits the bill of what a disruptive technology is... at much lower quality but at a much, much lower price.”
— Felix Salmon, [10:49] -
On accountability and growth:
“Every time they get fined, they say, ‘oh yes, our bad, we fixed it now,’ and then it never seems to get fixed.”
— Felix Salmon, [14:05] -
On why concrete is everywhere:
“Infrastructure is a fancy word which basically means concrete.”
— Felix Salmon, [23:07] -
On community impact of Airbnb:
“The people who were left... their neighbors were now young 20-somethings with rolly bags. And they were all very upset about it.”
— Emily Peck, [46:33] -
On profit over progress in construction:
“We should not be building things with a 50 to 100 year time span... the construction industry... has basically been zero [productivity gains] over the past 50 years.”
— Felix Salmon, [27:35, 28:41]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Robinhood IPO & Fines: [01:30 – 21:42]
- Concrete & Building Lifespans: [21:54 – 36:21]
- Airbnb Settlements & Scandals: [36:21 – 47:37]
- Numbers Round (fun facts, lighter tone): [47:57 – end]
Memorable Light Moments
- Emily’s new job at Fundrise briefly celebrated ([00:32]).
- Felix's playful description of living in a brutalist building and enduring never-ending drilling ([21:54]).
- The “Numbers Round” includes the annual recycling of 1,200 bowling balls in NYC ([52:53]).
“Are bowling balls recyclable? ... No, Felix, but people think they are...”
— Emily Peck, [53:14] - Joking about naming rights for drama schools vs. spending money on Quibi ([50:42–50:46]).
Tone & Language
The hosts maintain Slate Money's signature blend of critical sharpness, industry insider knowledge, and irreverent, honest banter. They’re unafraid to call out companies, question norms, and inject humor—even when dealing with heavy subjects.
Conclusion
This episode is a deeply relevant, lively, and at times sobering look at the intersection of technology, finance, infrastructure, and society. The hosts dissect why short-term thinking, misplaced incentives, and lack of accountability have produced everything from hazardous buildings to platforms that profit from their users’ mistakes. Yet, throughout, they offer pointed analysis, real-world context, and the occasional comic relief for listeners seeking meaning behind the week's financial news.