Slate Money: "Farewell, Anna!" – Episode Summary

Date: February 20, 2021
Host: Felix Salmon (Axios)
Co-hosts: Emily Peck (HuffPost), Anna Shymansky (final regular episode)

Episode Overview

The episode marks the farewell of long-time co-host Anna Shymansky from Slate Money. To honor Anna, the show is structured around stories and questions in her wheelhouse: the Texas energy crisis, Citibank's $900 million wire error, questions from listeners, and Anna's takes on financial journalism and Michigan football. The discussion is candid and, at times, humorous, covering deep structural problems in infrastructure and finance, while also reflecting on Anna's contributions and legacy on Slate Money.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Texas Energy Crisis and Infrastructure Failure

Timestamps: 01:57–14:44

• What Happened in Texas?
  • A historic storm led to massive power outages across Texas, raising questions about the state's deregulated energy market, poor preparation, and the impact of extreme weather events driven by climate change (01:57).
  • Felix notes the "Five Sigma" nature of recent events, highlighting the combination of extremely rare, but not entirely unprecedented, disruptions (02:23).
• Preparation and Cost Trade-offs
  • Emily points out that similar failures occurred in 2011, but infrastructure wasn't meaningfully upgraded despite warnings (03:20).
  • Anna explains that the choice to winterize infrastructure involves a real, non-trivial cost and historically inconsistent political and consumer will to pay for rare events (04:49).
• Insurance and Infrastructure Neglect
  • Felix asks why winterization isn't treated as an "insurance premium" (06:28), but Anna highlights public reluctance to pay for unseen or long-term benefits, tying to other crises like the pandemic (07:20).

    "People are horrible at planning ahead." – Anna Shymansky [07:20]

• Broader Infrastructure Issues
  • The conversation broadens to nationwide underinvestment in infrastructure—energy, broadband, roads, bridges—frustrated by size, political incentives, and an aversion to spending on "unsexy" upgrades (09:36).
• Political Opportunity
  • Felix mentions Biden's ambitious "Build Back Better" plan as essential, and Anna calls for meaningful, bipartisan action on infrastructure investment (11:53).

    "I hope it does spur people on both sides of the aisle to actually have a real infrastructure week..." – Anna Shymansky [12:10]

2. Crumbling Systems: Broader Societal Implications

Timestamps: 13:28–14:49

• Emily lists the pandemic’s revelation of frail systems: public health, care, unemployment, and now energy—echoing historic collapses of cities due to neglected infrastructure (13:28).

  "What we're seeing is like a real-time just collapse of everything. I don't even think I'm being apocalyptic here, am I?" – Emily Peck [14:31]

3. Citibank’s $900 Million Mistake

Timestamps: 14:49–27:27

• Background:

  • Citibank accidentally sent $900 million to Revlon's creditors, an error stemming from legacy software and confusing internal processes (15:22, 18:26).

• Systemic Failures:

  • Anna describes how outdated tech leads to massive errors, noting it's surprising such a big mistake hasn't happened before:

    "This is really an example of a systems error...it's shocking that this doesn't happen more often..." – Anna Shymansky [15:22]

  • The software flaw meant users could unintentionally transfer vast sums if the wrong (or insufficient) checkboxes were selected (18:00).

• Legal Fallout:

  • Courts ruled some recipients weren't required to return the funds based on a precedent that recognizes overpayment can sometimes serve as debt repayment if the creditor couldn't know it was an error (21:10–25:13).
  • Felix questions who now truly holds the liability, Revlon or Citibank—a legal gray area left unresolved (23:07).

• Infrastructural Parallels:

  • Anna links Citibank’s woes to the broader infrastructure discussions, emphasizing path dependency and the difficulty of system-wide upgrades (26:38):

    "When you have systems...where you have trillions of dollars moving back and forth, it's not like somebody starts from scratch and plans this perfect system..." – Anna Shymansky [26:40]

  • Felix explains single-system controls (like Apple's software) versus the patchwork, decentralized finance sector, and why constant, clean updating is nearly impossible (27:24).

4. Listener Q&A: Anna’s Media Diet, Debates, and Michigan Football

Timestamps: 31:20–44:51

Q1: How Does Anna Keep Up with Financial News?

• Anna listens to many podcasts (Bloomberg’s Odd Lots, Bloomberg Surveillance, BBC Global News) and reads longer-form sources (Breaking Views, Financial Times, The Economist), preferring books to stay grounded in larger trends [31:20, 33:07].

  "I actually spend a lot more time reading books than I do reading online news..." – Anna Shymansky [31:54]

Q2: Podcast Listening Habits

• She listens at 1.5x speed, often during long-distance runs or while cooking, explaining her fast-talking style [34:12–34:56].

Q3: Are Dating Profiles Useful?

• Anna is blunt: profiles are mostly ignored; photos and basic stats matter; the key benefit is just meeting people willing to date [35:30].

Q4: Can Anna Change Felix’s Mind?

• Anna reveals her approach: Felix rarely admits defeat, but she recognizes her points land when he shifts topics or incorporates her arguments weeks later.

  "He won't say he was wrong, but he'll kind of change the topic and then jump off from what I said as though he had always agreed with it." – Anna Shymansky [37:06]

• Examples: discussions on tiered interest rates, and on the constitutionality of wealth taxes [39:26].

Q5: Michigan Football & Jim Harbaugh

• Anna, a diehard Michigan fan, delivers a passionate, detailed verdict: Harbaugh improved the program but hasn't met championship or rivalry goals; unless he beats Ohio State soon, she predicts his exit.

  "I like Jim Harbaugh. I want Jim Harbaugh to succeed. However, I am very skeptical that Jim Harbaugh will be able to succeed." – Anna Shymansky [41:19]

• She discusses her Michigan fandom roots and the family loyalty behind it [43:52].

Bonus: Slate Plus segment will feature Anna's "defense of Tom Brady."

5. Numbers Round

Timestamps: 45:21–56:52

• Emily: $1,600
  • The average tax bill for someone who received 2020 unemployment benefits, arguing such aid shouldn't be taxed (45:31).
• Felix: $240
  • The median size of a Robinhood account; raises questions about the sustainability and true value of Robinhood's user base (48:18).
• Anna: 1%
  • The first-ever interest rate cut by the Bank of England in 1822, warning against assuming central banks can solve all economic woes without negative side effects (51:14).

  "Throughout history, having overly loose monetary policy very often leads to negative consequences." – Anna Shymansky [52:03]

  • Discusses the limits of monetary policy, the need for better fiscal tools, and the problems with risk-taking encouraged by low rates.

Notable Quotes & Moments

1. On Infrastructure Neglect:

   "There's just an unwillingness across the country in states that are blue and red, to spend the money on infrastructure that's necessary. And...politicians and governments don't want to spend the money because, like, it's no fun." – Emily Peck [08:14]

2. On Systemic Software Problems:

   "All of those banks were based on ancient technology and on incommensurate ancient technology. And so trying to get them all to speak to each other...it's extremely hard." – Felix Salmon [18:30] "You keep patching and you keep making changes and you add this and you say, well, this doesn't work. So we're going to put these weird default boxes...and then you get to this place where everything's just a complete mess." – Anna Shymansky [26:40]

3. On Podcast Listening Habits:

   "When you're doing like four-hour runs, you can get through a lot of podcasts...basically, if I'm not speaking with another human being, I'm probably listening to a podcast or an audiobook" – Anna Shymansky [34:12]

4. On Changing Minds:

   "He won't say he was wrong, but he'll kind of change the topic and then jump off from what I said as though he had always agreed with it..." – Anna Shymansky [37:06]

5. On Michigan Football:

   "Unless he beats Ohio State in the next two years, he's gone." – Anna Shymansky [42:09]

6. Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is warm, witty, and occasionally irreverent—full of fond teasing, inside jokes (mainly about Anna’s podcast speed and debate style), and mutual respect. Anna’s expertise, curiosity, and trademark directness are celebrated as she signs off as a regular host.

For More

• Slate Plus listeners will hear Anna’s defense of Tom Brady in an upcoming segment.
• Anna will appear on future "Slate Money Goes to the Movies" shows.

Key Timestamps

• Texas energy crisis: 01:57–14:49
• Citibank $900M error: 14:49–27:27
• Listener questions (incl. Michigan football): 31:20–44:51
• Numbers round: 45:21–56:52

Farewell, Anna—your directness, depth, and humor will be missed!