Slate Money: “Good Riddance to Larry Summers”

Date: November 22, 2025
Host: Felix Salmon (Bloomberg)
Co-hosts: Emily Peck (Axios), Elizabeth Spiers (New York Times)

Episode Overview

This episode of Slate Money centers on the dramatic public fall of Larry Summers in the aftermath of fresh Jeffrey Epstein revelations. The hosts dissect Summers’ legacy, his connections with Epstein, and his broader impact on finance, academia, and policy. They then move to a sharp discussion on antitrust’s failure to regulate Big Tech, and close with a debate on whether the seemingly unstoppable wave of AI investment is a genuine bubble or something else.

Main Discussion: Larry Summers’ Fall from Grace

Theme:
Larry Summers’ entanglement in the Epstein scandal reemerges as new emails surface, largely ending his public career and prompting reflections on his record, intellect, and influence.

The Epstein Files and Summers’ Retreat

• Emily introduces the topic, describing the “astonishing” content of Summers’ emails with Epstein. Despite Epstein’s criminal record and exposés (notably Julie Brown’s 2018 Miami Herald piece), Summers maintained contact, seeking advice on personal matters involving a female academic mentee ([04:00]–[05:14]).
• Elizabeth highlights just how “creepy” the emails are—noting Summers asked Epstein how to “manipulate” his mentee. She cites one email where Epstein replies: “she’s already beginning to sound needy, nice” ([05:14]).
• The hosts unanimously agree that Summers’ public statement—a generic regret about communicating with Epstein—sidesteps the more disturbing behavior revealed.

Elizabeth: “He’s been teaching women for God knows how long. And the whole thing is appalling.” ([05:23])

Summers’ History and Reputation

• Emily reminds listeners this isn’t Summers’ first brush with cancelation, referencing his infamous comments about women’s aptitude for science during his Harvard presidency and subsequent public apologies ([06:09]–[06:36]).
• Felix recounts his own run-ins with Summers, notably being fired after criticizing Summers’ reputation for intelligence and comparing it to the “Pig Shagger Jones” joke—suggesting the myth of Summers’ brilliance is largely unsubstantiated ([07:00]–[08:34]).
• Discussion on the “John Bates Clark Medal,” often cited as proof of Summers’ intellect, but the panel challenges the substance behind his accolades ([08:12]–[09:12]).

Felix: “The only thing that everyone always says… is he’s really smart. And then, so what?” ([07:44])

Documented Mistakes and Record

• Summers’ professional missteps:
  • World Bank “Pollution Memo”: Summers advocated (even if jokingly) for dumping global pollution in poor countries ([13:10]–[13:24]).
  • Harvard’s Financial Losses: His catastrophic financial derivatives trades cost Harvard about $1 billion ([14:50]–[15:11]).
  • Financial Deregulation: As Treasury Secretary, Summers championed deregulation, laying groundwork for the 2008 crisis ([16:54]–[19:33]).
  • Summers has consistently dodged accountability on these issues, most notably during a combative Channel 4 News interview ([18:00]–[19:33]).

Felix: “There is a very strong case to be made that absent Larry, America would be in a much better place today, that we would have had a less bad financial crisis, we would have had a better environmental record, we would have spent more money on the Obama stimulus, the economy would be bigger…” ([19:38])

Cancellation and Legacy

• Elizabeth: “This is just an astonishing example of someone failing up in a way that's just happening in public in a very high profile way and just nobody does anything. But I think it has really given Summers an epic and broad coalition of haters.” ([15:12])
• The bipartisan satisfaction at Summers’ public collapse is noted (“famous Democrat Larry Summers is being canceled…”), as well as skepticism that “cancellation” will be permanent for someone of his stature ([15:45], [20:55]).

Segment 2: Antitrust and the Limits of Big Tech Regulation ([24:05]–[39:40])

Theme:
Major US antitrust cases against tech companies (Meta, Google, Microsoft) keep falling flat, raising alarm about whether the US government is structurally able to regulate Big Tech at all.

Key Discussion Points

• Meta Wins Big: Recent antitrust case victory for Meta seen as the latest in a long line of failed government attempts to rein in Big Tech ([24:20]–[24:41]).
• US Antitrust = Blunt Instrument: America’s reliance on antitrust law is contrasted with Europe’s more prescriptive legislative approach, which targets specific issues (e.g., privacy, competition) ([25:00]–[26:00]).
• Founders’ Control and Oligarchy: Many tech companies’ voting structures centralize power in a few hands—especially Zuckerberg at Meta ([27:50]–[28:58]).
• Global Scale & Innovation: Tech monopolies are harder to challenge since their rapid innovation and consumer popularity mean the classic antitrust definition doesn’t always fit ([31:09]–[31:39]).
• Public Apathy: Americans generally like the services these monopolies offer, so there’s little popular will for serious regulation ([35:12]–[35:55]).

Elizabeth: “One of the conditions of monopoly historically is low rate of innovation. And that's definitely not what's happening here.” ([31:09])

Felix: “If your constituents are not coming up to you going, like, you need to do something about this massive problem that is Google, why would you bend over backwards to try to persuade them that they should care about this?” ([38:45])

Notable Moments

• The “GDPR popup” joke—Felix calls the policy’s main effect “the world’s most annoying cookie popups… that do absolutely nothing” ([35:00]).
• Elizabeth references Tim Wu’s insights on how even apparently clear antitrust cases, like Google’s acquisition of Waze, fizzled due to legal technicalities ([35:55]–[36:52]).

Segment 3: Is the AI Boom a Bubble? ([44:05]–[50:43])

Theme:
Is the immense investment in AI—now eclipsing the dot-com era—fueling another bubble, or is it something different?

Main Discussion Points

• Not a Classic Bubble: Felix distinguishes the frenzy from the 1990s dot-com bubble—AI investment is in real hardware, not just speculative stocks ([44:05]–[45:29]).
• No Greater Fool Theory: Most AI companies (OpenAI included) aren’t public; investments are largely in infrastructure, with little evidence of speculative flipping ([45:33]–[45:39]).
• Risk and Debt: Concerns are limited; even companies like Oracle (with $105B in debt) are seen as having manageable risk with transparent pricing ([48:29]).
• “Crowding Out” Debate: Investment in AI may be sucking air from other industries, but in a stagnating economy, that's arguably a good thing ([49:39]–[50:34]).

Felix: “Most of the money going into AI is hard investment in actual data centers and chips and stuff… There’s not a lot of get rich quick, it’s actually get rich slow.” ([44:52])

Elizabeth: “You can have bubbles just because the equity markets are misallocating funds. When VCs are throwing money at anything that has AI in it, you could end up with a bubble just that way.” ([47:11])

Conclusion

• Hosts ultimately agree it’s not a bubble—at least not yet. Elizabeth warns it could become one if misallocation persists ([50:43]).

Numbers Round ([53:22]–[58:09])

1. Emily: 25% — Percentage of S&P 500 CEOs receiving personal, home, and security benefits, up sharply from 18%. CEOs are increasingly worried about personal safety, even pre-dating the United Health CEO shooting ([53:41]).

2. Elizabeth: 64% — Percentage of workers saying their workload increased in the past year (EY survey), due in part to poor AI integration ([54:58]).

3. Felix: $236,360,000 — Price of a Gustav Klimt portrait (“Portrait of Elizabeth Lederer”) at Sotheby’s, now the most expensive painting auctioned. Felix adamantly dismisses the claim that Salvator Mundi (the dubious “Leonardo”) holds the record ([56:14]–[57:01]).

Side note: The gold toilet by Maurizio Cattelan sold for just its bullion value, “a little underwhelming” ([57:18]).

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Epstein Scandal:

  • “He was asking Epstein for advice because… he was thinking: how can I get this woman into bed?” (Emily, [04:13])
  • “His sort of blanket statement was that he regretted his misguided decision to continue communicating with Mr. Epstein—as if the problem here is just that he was communicating with Jeffrey Epstein and not his own behavior.” (Elizabeth, [05:14])

• Summers’ Realia:

  • “You name one clever thing that he’s done and I’ll name two stupid things that he’s done and you will run out before I run out.” (Felix, [12:34])
  • “He did one of the world’s worst ever fixed income trades when he was president of Harvard…” (Felix, [14:50])

• Antitrust:

  • “The US Government seems to be incredibly bad at regulating anyone using anything that isn’t antitrust. Everything has to be a nail because the only hammer… is antitrust.” (Felix, [25:00])

• AI Bubble:

  • “If the thing that we need to keep the economy growing is banks lending money… then, yeah, it’s really good that the banks are lending money to AI.” (Felix, [50:01])

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Larry Summers’ fall from grace: [02:24] – [24:00]
• Antitrust and Big Tech: [24:05] – [39:40]
• AI bubble debate: [44:05] – [50:43]
• Numbers round: [53:22] – [58:09]

Tone and Style

The panel combines sharp skepticism with newsroom-bantery humor and deep policy knowledge, frequently subverting establishment wisdom while wielding colorful analogies (“Pig Shagger Jones”, “giant sucking sound for AI”). The vibe is irreverent but informed—ideal listening for finance and tech news junkies or those intent on seeing past corporate or media spindrift.

For more:

• Harvard Crimson’s extensive coverage on Summers’ emails and fallout
• Felix’s original “Pig Shagger Jones” blog and the comments that got him fired ([11:12])
• History of the John Bates Clark Medal: [16:08]
• Channel 4 News interview with Larry Summers ([18:00])

Stay tuned for Slate Plus’ Thanksgiving hot takes, where Elizabeth brings the heat!