Slate Money: "Illegal Group Chats Are Everywhere"
Date: March 29, 2025
Hosts: Felix Salmon (A), Emily Peck (C), Elizabeth Spiers (B)
Special Guests: Shayna Roth (D)
Overview
This episode examines the persistent and universal use of unofficial messaging apps—like iMessage and Signal—in business and government, despite regulations and compliance efforts. The hosts discuss why enforcement feels hopeless, the implications for privacy and history, challenges for both regulators and employees, and broader social consequences. They also explore recent trends in domestic and international migration, untangle the crisis facing dollar stores, and serve up the latest in the ever-fascinating world of eggs (Egg Watch!).
Illegal Group Chats in Business and Government
The Ubiquity of Messaging Apps (00:21–07:49)
- As technology weaves itself inextricably into our lives, the ways people communicate at work and beyond are becoming impossible to regulate.
- Despite SEC efforts and hefty fines (over $2B since 2021), employees at securities firms and beyond still default to personal messaging apps for sensitive or even illegal business.
- Pandemic era remote work exacerbated the trend; record keeping requirements are now at odds with real-world behavior.
"Is there a world in which we can enforce opsec, or is the phone just like this thing that is more powerful than any protocol?"
—Felix Salmon [03:01]
- Even relentless compliance training fails: habitual convenience trumps rules; clients expect seamless, off-channel communication.
"Your client sends you a text, you're going to text them back."
—Emily Peck [06:39]
- Work and personal life are so integrated it's nearly impossible for individuals to distinguish what "should" go on record.
- Attempts to define "inter-office memos" are laughable in the current communication ecosystem, as noted by Matt Levine (as paraphrased by Elizabeth).
- Regulators want to monitor all channels, but end up policing only the clearest deal-related messages.
The Documentation and History Angle (07:49–10:21)
- Historically, most communication has been lost; today’s digital tonnage might actually improve what's preserved... if it’s recorded at all.
- Disappearing apps like Signal pose a challenge, both for regulation and for preserving history.
- Privacy is further eroded as companies consider monitoring personal devices used for work (BYOD: bring your own device).
- Some employees are leaving firms over such privacy incursions.
"Some finance guys... are leaving their firms because they feel like that's too much of a privacy encroachment."
—Emily Peck [10:21]
BYOD (Bring Your Own Device) Pros and Cons (10:48–13:03)
- BYOD blurs boundaries—convenient, but can make workers feel exploited ("I literally cannot do my job without my own personal iPhone"). [11:23]
- Expensing (or not expensing) phone use raises questions about who really owns your business presence.
Can Regulation Catch Up? (13:03–15:41)
- Narrowing definitions of what must be kept and monitored could help, but the scale is daunting—even with AI.
- SEC investigative methods are evolving, but risks remain.
- For government, the secure/easy divide is structural: secure, unwieldy government apps vs. user-friendly consumer ones. Humans predictably pick convenience over compliance.
"...do you use the thing that's secure or do you use the thing that's easy? ...humans are lazy. They're always going to do the thing that's easiest."
—Felix Salmon [15:06]
Migration and Political Polarization
Americans on the Move (15:53–24:38)
- Election fears and policy changes (especially on abortion and LGBTQ+ rights) are driving actual migration, internally (blue to blue and red to red) and for wealthy individuals, internationally.
- An exodus from abortion-ban states to protective states is real and measurable (using USPS change-of-address data).
- Doctors, tech founders, and families—particularly those concerned for transgender children’s medical access—are relocating in search of safety and aligned values.
"It's kind of like a, like a brain drain situation."
—Emily Peck [18:03]
- Polarization is deepening: both Democrats and Republicans are gravitating to likeminded locales (notably: "Democrats want to live near Trader Joe's" [18:50], Republicans near forests/rural areas).
- The episode connects migration to personal safety (e.g., access to gender-affirming or HIV medicine), raising existential concerns.
"If I don't have [HIV drugs], I have two years to live. So it's really existential for a lot of people."
—Elizabeth Spiers [21:57]
- Pandemic mobility has made relocation seem less daunting for many Americans.
The Dollar Store Drama
Dollar Store Market Turmoil (24:54–30:28)
- The trio untangles the complicated relationships between Dollar Tree, Family Dollar, and Dollar General.
- Dollar Tree bought Family Dollar to compete with Dollar General, but failed at turning it around. Now, it's unloading the business at a massive loss to private equity.
- Shopping dynamics: Dollar Tree ("Buck 25 Tree") now prices above a dollar; Family Dollar is more urban, Dollar Tree suburban.
"The dollar store concept is kind of like tired."
—Emily Peck [27:29]
- Competition from Five Below, TEMU, Amazon, and Walmart (especially in price-sensitive segments) is fierce.
- Inflation and shrinkflation have eroded the “everything is a dollar” allure.
- Notably, Family Dollar had an infamous rat infestation impacting its reputation ("rats had established a presence"). [29:36]
Notable quote:
"Taking care of an exploding rat population is non trivial."
—Felix Salmon [30:01]
Egg Watch: Prices, M&A, and Upper-Crust Cuisine
Egg Prices Drop and Corporate Moves (31:01–39:46)
- Egg prices hit a five-month low ($2.92/dozen), post-bird flu, before Easter—a reason for “egg watch” optimism, but volatility lingers.
- Major M&A: The Brazilian "Egg King" is buying US giant Hillandale Farms for $1.1B—part of a larger trend as eggs become more valuable ("higher income classes have been eating eggs" [32:42]).
- Egg-based luxury: Caviar on eggs, debated as delicious elegance vs. conspicuous expensifying.
"Leave it to the rich people to mess up eggs for everyone else."
—Emily Peck [33:15]
- The hosts riff on egg-eating trends, the mechanics of basting and sous vide, and the dos and don’ts of caviar (don’t use stainless steel!).
- Consumption patterns and cultural cachet of eggs are shifting, with prices unlikely to return to historical lows.
Numbers Round (40:03–44:56)
- Elizabeth: 250 — Number of Hooters left in the US (down from 400). Hooters is in Chapter 11, attempting a "family friendly" pivot (with fresh ingredients).
"Their turnaround plan is to make their restaurant...more family friendly by getting rid of Bikini Nights." [40:05]
- Felix: 178,549 — Number of EV charging stations in California, now eclipsing gas pumps; access is seven times higher if counting home chargers.
"The you can’t find the charger argument for not buying an EV doesn’t really fly anymore in California." [41:55]
- Emily: 2,229 — Number of malapropisms collected by a retiring Ford exec, including classics like "let’s not reinvent the ocean" and "the elephant in the closet."
"He started tracking the malapropisms from colleagues and himself... even the CEO got dinged a few times!" [42:14]
Memorable & Notable Moments
- Comparing analog secrecy to digital leaks:
"If there's anything sensitive, you just talk to me about it... there's no document retention policy about in person conversations."
—Felix Salmon [04:16] - On regulators chasing a moving target:
"Maybe the solution for the SEC is just use AI and tell AI to find me the juicy bits."
—Emily Peck [10:00] - On the futility of easy vs. secure:
"Humans are lazy. They're always going to do the thing that's easiest."
—Felix Salmon [15:11] - On polarization and the Trader Joe’s test:
"Characteristics of places Democrats were more likely to move to...Within five miles of a Trader Joe's."
—Emily Peck [20:36] - On the caviar/egg debate:
“Caviar is the one thing where Emily’s like, now that expensive luxury good is totally worth it.”
—Felix Salmon [34:23] - On Hooters’ decline:
"They’re also adding fresh ingredients, which is definitely what people go to Hooters for."
—Elizabeth Spiers [40:56] - On corporate speak gone awry:
"These are swing for the moon opportunities. We need to make sure dealers have some skin in the teeth."
—Emily Peck quoting malapropisms [44:02]
Episode Timeline
00:21 – Main theme: illegal group chats/new normal for business communication
10:48 – The BYOD dilemma
13:03 – Regulating "off-channel" communication
15:53 – Migration, polarization, and "escape plans"
24:54 – Dollar store drama: M&A and retail woes
31:01 – Egg Watch (prices, egg M&A, eggs as luxury)
40:03 – Numbers Round (Hooters, EVs, corporate malapropisms)
44:56 – Slate Plus tease / closing banter
Tone & Style
Conversational, irreverent, and savvy—combining sharp business and policy insight with wry asides and plenty of humor. The hosts move fluidly from serious implications (privacy, migration, regulatory futility) to affectionate mockery ("egg king," caviar discourse, and Hooters nostalgia).
For those who missed the episode:
- The world of business and regulation can’t outsmart human (and client) preference for convenience.
- Tech and politics are making us more mobile, more polarized, and more surveilled.
- Even dollar stores and eggs are in upheaval.
- And in the world of corporate banter, every elephant in the closet is fair game.
Episode produced by Slate Podcasts. Special thanks to guest Shayna Roth and the production team. For bonus content, including deep dives into Satoshi Nakamoto, subscribe to Slate Plus!