Slate Money Podcast Summary – “Meta’s Instascam Ads”

Date: November 8, 2025
Host: Felix Salmon (Bloomberg)
Co-hosts: Emily Peck (Axios), Elizabeth Spiers (New York Times)
Guest: Jeff Horwitz (Reuters)

Overview

This episode of Slate Money delivers a sharp, insightful discussion of three major topics: The recent Supreme Court case on Trump-era tariffs, a deep dive into Facebook/Meta’s role as a hotbed for scam advertising based on Jeff Horwitz’s exclusive reporting, and the extravagant, almost surreal saga of Saudi Arabia’s futuristic city project, Neom. The tone is characteristically witty, critical, and conversational.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Supreme Court and Trump’s Tariffs (00:38–13:20)

• Background: The Trump administration imposed sweeping tariffs invoking the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, arguing that trade deficits were an economic emergency—even on countries with no US deficit.
• Legal Arguments: The core constitutional issue is whether the President can levy what’s effectively a tax, a power the Constitution assigns to Congress.
  • Emily Peck notes, “At the Supreme Court, John Sauer, the Solicitor General, argued tariffs really aren't about money. They're not about raising revenue...That's the argument they put forward.” (04:06)
• Rhetoric vs. Court Arguments: Trump frequently boasted about tariff revenue, contradicting the administration’s court argument that tariffs weren’t intended for revenue.
• Supreme Court Attitude: The justices focus on questions of intent and the separation of powers, with Justice Gorsuch particularly interested in constitutional dimensions.
• Prediction Markets: Real-time prediction markets tracked oral arguments, suggesting a 70% chance the Court overturns the tariffs. Jeff Horwitz remarks on the entertainment value of prediction markets during live hearings (08:53).
• Potential Consequences: If tariffs are ruled illegal, could importers claim refunds? Probably not easily, as the administration has a pattern of slow-walking or dodging remedies.
• Skepticism About Refunds: “I am not optimistic that they will end up with refunds, though.” – Elizabeth Spiers (12:07)

2. Meta/Facebook as a Scam Haven (15:53–34:57)

• Jeff Horwitz’s Scoop: Internal documents at Meta reveal the platform is uniquely fertile for scams, with lax standards for disciplining scam advertisers.
  • “Not only is the Internet generally the best place to do scams these days, but specifically Facebook is the best place to do scams these days." – Felix Salmon (15:53)
• Penalty Bids over Bans: Rather than banning probable scammers, Meta increasingly uses “penalty bids”—scammers identified as up to 95% likely to be violating rules simply pay extra to keep running ads.
  • “If you're sub 95% scammer, you are unlikely to be actually stopped from buying ads on an ongoing basis.” – Jeff Horwitz (15:47)
  • Facebook profits from scams via these surcharges, turning “scammer management” into a profit center (17:47).
• Underwhelming User Protections: Small fraudulent advertisers are only removed after being reported multiple times. User reports of fraud are dismissed 96% of the time; Meta’s “improvement” is to ignore only 75% of valid reports (18:29).
• Why So Lax? Meta prioritizes revenue: Social platforms fund newer priorities like AI development. The primary concern is high-profile advertiser and celebrity complaints, not user losses.
  • “Guidance from management was that the two biggest concerns were things that would piss off advertisers and things that would piss off really high profile public figures.” – Jeff Horwitz (27:13)
• Internal Limits on “Revenue Harm”: Anti-scam teams are told to cap “revenue harm” (losses from taking down scam ads) at 0.15% of Meta’s revenue, ensuring the vast majority of scam revenue remains untouched (22:04).
• Ethics of Profiting from Scams: The panel discusses a “Pigovian tax” dynamic—the platform taxes (but allows) scamming, thus normalizing it.
  • “It does seem like this is Facebook very explicitly deciding we are going to allow scams on our platform.” – Felix Salmon (24:53)
• Scale of Scam Revenue: Internal Meta reports estimate $3.5 billion in high-legal-risk scam revenue every six months (24:53).
• Global and Individual Victims: Scams range from small e-commerce fraud to investment cons that wipe out life savings. Victims are spread globally but skew toward affluent countries (30:25).
  • "The victims range from people who gave $19.95 ... to ads for investments in which people have lost their whole damn life savings." – Jeff Horwitz (31:15)
• Legal Risks for Meta: Section 230 complicates class-action lawsuits, but pressure mounts from affected celebrities and international courts (34:57).
• Scam Ad Evasion: Most first-week advertisers violate Meta’s rules—often repeat violators using new accounts (56:04).

3. Neom: Saudi Arabia’s $50 Billion “Mirage” (37:47–47:42)

• Project Description: The Neom “Line” project is a proposed city wall over 100 miles long, 1600 feet high (the height of the Empire State Building), laden with fantasy design elements like mirrored walls and upside-down skyscrapers.
• Logistical & Environmental Quagmires: Insurmountable issues include structural engineering (e.g., where to put waste), environmental harm (blocking bird migrations), and basic supply chain problems (not enough steel or transport capacity).
  • “It was going to be mirrored...otherwise the Saudi Arabian desert heat would cook everything inside immediately.” – Jeff Horwitz (38:57)
  • “Would you like some heroin?” – Elizabeth Spiers, riffing on the wild variety of ad scams seen, and the unreality of Neom’s promises (25:18/39:49)
• Political Backdrop: Forced displacement and repression of dissent. No real exit plan for abandoning the project, despite scaling down from 20 sections to 1—one that logistical analysis shows is impossible.
• Consultant Bonanza: Billions spent on Western consultants simply to tell Saudi leaders what they want to hear. Plans floated for “two moons” and other bizarre architectural elements.
  • “Everyone knew this was, like, not going to happen....but this is weirdly what we are being hired to do.” – Jeff Horwitz (42:27)
• Lessons on Power: The project exemplifies the hazards of unchecked authority: “There is a reason you need someone saying no. Sometimes, like, that does actually make sense.” – Emily Peck (44:15)
• Comparisons to Historic Megaprojects: Panel debates if this is wild innovation or just foolish waste—prompting a recommendation to revisit their Fountainhead episode (45:29).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meta’s Scam Penalty Bid System:

  • "If you're sub 95% scammer, you are unlikely to be actually stopped from buying ads on an ongoing basis." – Jeff Horwitz (15:47)
  • “So really, scamming is now a profit center for them.” – Felix Salmon (17:47)

• On User Protections:

  • "Small advertisers have to get reported at least eight times before they get taken down. Also, the stats about user reports being either rejected or ignored 96% of the time are just mind boggling." – Elizabeth Spiers (18:07)

• On the Logic of Meta’s Laissez-Faire Attitude:

  • “It does seem like this is Facebook very explicitly deciding we are going to allow scams on our platform.” – Felix Salmon (24:53)

• On the Surreality of Neom:

  • “If you asked a 14-year-old who was a sci-fi fan to imagine a city of the future who had no understanding of structural engineering...this is what you would end up with.” – Elizabeth Spiers (39:49)

• On the Contractor Gravy Train:

  • “It was such a bonanza for consultants...A large portion of the money we're talking about for the planning stages of this just went to a whole bunch of white-collar people who were being told by their bosses that they needed to tell The Saudis what the Saudis wanted to hear.” – Jeff Horwitz (41:34)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:38–13:20]: Trump tariffs and the Supreme Court case
• [15:53–34:57]: Meta/Facebook scam ad revelations (with Jeff Horwitz)
• [37:47–47:42]: The Neom megaproject’s excess, folly, and failures
• [53:32–56:38]: Numbers round – includes data on scams, snap benefits, and TV host salaries
• [56:04]: “70% of first-week advertisers violate Meta rules” – Jeff Horwitz

Additional Highlights

• Supreme Court Predictions: Live tracking of justices’ questions impacted betting odds in real time—a novel intersection of law and prediction markets (08:53).
• Meta’s Priorities: Facebook/Meta only worries when “big advertisers” or “famous people” are victims of scams, not ordinary users (27:13).
• Scale of Scamming: $3.5 billion in “higher legal risk” scam ad revenue per six months, meaning user losses are possibly a high multiple of that figure (24:53/30:25).
• Legal Immunity: Section 230 shields Meta from many class-action suits, but aggrieved billionaires worldwide are fighting back in court (34:57).
• Scam Evasion Tactics: Meta allows repeated scam attempts through new advertiser accounts, contributing to 70% rule violation among first-week advertisers (56:04).

Tone and Style

The show is as irreverent, evidence-driven, and self-aware as ever—with a blend of dark humor, policy critique, and exasperation at platforms and policymakers alike. Frequent use of witty analogies, effortless segues between topics, and a penchant for highlighting both the absurdity and seriousness of the financial news cycle.

Summary Takeaways

• Meta/Facebook has knowingly become the platform of choice for scammers, using minor financial disincentives rather than robust content moderation to address rampant fraud—focusing on maximizing revenue, not user safety.
• Tariffs and emergency powers are being dissected at the highest level of the US legal system, exposing constitutional and rhetorical contradictions.
• Grand, unchecked visions like Saudi Arabia’s Neom showcase the dangers and follies that arise when massive resources encounter no bureaucratic or technical restraint.
• All three stories exemplify how power—whether wielded by the US presidency, a tech CEO, or a Gulf monarch—tends to follow the path of least resistance… and greatest self-interest.