Money on the Mind: Prepping for Retirement Without Losing Your Mind

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Slate Money
Episode: Money on the Mind: Prepping for Retirement Without Losing Your Mind
Date: November 6, 2025
Host: Felix Salmon with guests Anna Sale (host of Slate’s Death, Sex & Money) and Adriana Adams (Head of Financial Planning, Domain Money)

This crossover episode explores the emotional side of financial planning, focusing on retirement anxiety, psychology's central role in money management, and practical approaches to handling money stress—both for individuals and couples. Felix, Anna, and certified financial planner Adriana Adams dig into why money is so often a source of fear, how to make retirement planning less intimidating, and strategies for both setting and forgetting financial plans—without losing your sanity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Emotional Core of Money Talks (00:49–04:41)

• The episode frames money as deeply emotional, not just logical or mathematical.
• Felix notes that Swiss private banks often recruit from the hospitality industry, not business schools:

  “Really, this is all about just making people feel comfortable, making people feel good, rather than... making people feel terrified.” (03:08)

• Adriana explains:

  “Personal finance is probably 80% personal and 20% finance... It’s immensely tilted towards psychology and personality.” (04:03)

2. The Planner as Therapist (04:48–05:55)

• Adriana reflects on needing more psychological training than financial:

  “I actually wish I would have gotten [a] second degree in psychology or something because... you have to just naturally be good at it or get some sort of training.” (04:48)

• Remote meetings (e.g., over Zoom) can make it harder to read clients and pick up non-verbal cues.

3. Money in Relationships (05:55–10:14)

• Felix shares his journey: even as a finance pro, he faced psychological money hangups and benefited from a planner, especially for aligning with his less-confident spouse.

  “For all that I was completely confident in my own abilities, my wife was not quite as confident in my own abilities... hearing from someone who could speak a little bit more with a little bit more emotional nous than I have... would be incredibly valuable.” (06:14)

• Seeing a financial planner can address issues faster and cheaper than with a therapist:

  “Stuff that people spend thousands... with their therapist... could be dealt with much more easily... just by sitting down with someone like Adriana for a session or two.” (08:04)

4. Navigating Couples’ Conflicts & Aligning Values (08:58–10:14)

• Adriana describes helping couples speak each other’s financial language to make confident joint decisions:

  “How do I speak both of their languages... and make it easier to really agree and make a decision?” (08:58)

  “In the end of the day, it's your decision... and I want to make sure that you’re completely confident with that decision.” (10:09)

5. Retirement Fixation & Industry Incentives (10:14–13:13)

• Felix wonders if “retirement” is overemphasized because it’s easy for the industry to sell products around it.
• Adriana notes two types: those who over-focus on retirement and those who under-prepare for it. These extremes often appear within couples, providing mutual balance.
• Emotional experiences shape attitudes:

  “Usually you’re kind of emotionally tied to one of those experiences [good or bad retirements], and that's what you think about.” (12:14)

6. The “Bookend Goals” Approach (13:15–14:06)

• Adriana explains her core planning philosophy:

  “Bookend Goals is short-term liquidity and your long-term financial security… You can’t live your best life today if you don’t have the financial security and peace of mind...” (13:15)

• If you know retirement savings are on track, you can worry less about daily money choices.

7. Trust, Incentives & Crying in the Planner’s Office (15:06–17:38)

• Compensation models affect advice—hourly fees make planners more neutral.

  “My compensation does not change, no matter which decision you make...” (16:16)

• On tears and money stress:

  “If you start crying with me, just know that I will be crying with you.” (17:41)

8. What Makes Someone “Ready” for Retirement? (18:13–19:46)

• Adriana emphasizes that it’s not about being rich, but about “spending less than you make” and “figuring out what you want to achieve.”

  “If you know what you want, it’s very easy to make the right decisions… if you don’t have a long-term plan, you don’t know what decisions you should or shouldn’t be making.” (18:20)

• It’s never too late to start:

  “The best day to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best day is today.” (19:22)

9. Money Doesn’t Eliminate Money Stress (20:01–21:16)

• Having more money isn’t a cure for financial anxiety:

  “If your lifestyle creeps up with your income creeping up, you feel the same insecurity that somebody [earning much less] feels… More money, more problems. Right?” (20:04, 21:12)

10. Uncertainty, Perfectionism & Homework (21:23–23:14)

• Anna voices the desire for prescriptive certainty in planning, which is impossible given market unpredictability.
• Setting up “set it and forget it” automations helps, but intrusive news and market ups and downs fuel anxiety.

11. “Set and Forget” Works Best (23:15–25:31)

• Felix and Adriana agree that you should check investments as rarely as possible:

  “The optimal frequency with which you check in on your investments is like once every other year. Adriana will say like once a year.” (23:16)

• More frequent checking = more anxiety:

  “If you only check it once a year, you’re gonna see green... if you check it every other month, you’re gonna see some red... more anxiety...” (23:59)

12. Financial Services Amplify Stress—Delete the App! (25:31–26:10)

• Financial company UX is engineered to provoke stress and push products/services:

  “Their UX is all about maximizing Agatha and stress... The first number you see is how much it did today... There’s a 50% chance you’re going to see a negative number ... It is so stupid.” (24:47–25:31)

• Main actionable tip:

  “Delete the app. You will be happier. You won’t need to pay your therapist nearly as much...” (25:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Felix Salmon, on planner as emotional support:

  “For all that I was completely confident in my own abilities, my wife was not ... hearing from someone who could speak a little bit more with a little bit more emotional nous than I have... would be incredibly valuable.” (06:14)

• Adriana Adams, on psychology in finance:

  “Personal finance is probably 80% personal and 20% finance.” (04:03)

• Adriana Adams, on progress:

  “The best day to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best day is today.” (19:22)

• Felix Salmon, on checking investments:

  “The optimal frequency with which you check in on your investments is like once every other year.” (23:16)

• Adriana Adams, on deleting financial apps for peace:

  “Delete the app. You will be happier...” (25:49)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Section | Timestamps | Description | |-------------------------------|---------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------| | Emotional core of finance | 00:49–04:41 | Money isn’t math, it’s personal—finance as therapy | | The planner’s role | 04:41–05:55 | Financial planners as relationship counselors | | Money in couples | 05:55–10:14 | Money dynamics within marriages & partnerships | | The retirement fixation | 10:14–13:13 | Why do we obsess over retirement? | | Bookend goals | 13:15–14:06 | Short-term liquidity & long-term security explained | | Advice & incentives | 15:06–17:38 | How pay structures impact planners’ advice | | Who’s really ready? | 18:13–19:46 | “Ready” for retirement, whatever your net worth | | More money ≠ less stress | 20:01–21:16 | Lifestyle creep and persistent insecurity | | Uncertainty and perfectionism | 21:23–23:14 | Facing risk and wanting control | | Set it and forget it | 23:15–25:31 | Stop doomscrolling—annual check-ins are enough | | The anti-anxiety takeaway | 25:31–26:10 | Delete your brokerage app, save your sanity |

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Actionable Takeaways

• Financial planning is fundamentally about people, not just numbers; choose advisors who can speak to your values and help bridge relationship divides.
• Obsessing over retirement is common but not always productive; short-term security matters just as much.
• More income doesn’t always bring more peace—lifestyle inflation can nullify financial gains.
• Set up savings and investments automatically; check them no more than once a year to minimize anxiety.
• Delete financial apps that encourage daily checking—they’re engineered to stoke stress, not calm.

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Final Message

“Delete the app. You will be happier... you will save money just by deleting the app. So that is the takeaway from this episode of Slate, Death, Sex, and Money, I guess.” (25:49–26:10)

The episode is both a practical and empathetic guide to retirement prep and managing money anxieties, reminding listeners that psychological peace comes as much from habits and boundaries as from numbers.

Transcript

[A]

This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card, my favorite travel hack. Easy. It's using Apple Card. It's great knowing that every time I dine out, buy souvenirs or pay my hotel bill using my Apple Card, I'm actually earning up to 3% daily cash back. So if you're like me and love to travel, then apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and [e-mail] hello and welcome to what the hell is this?

[B]

Anna, we're chatting again about money. Slate Money dsm, that sex and money mashup.

[A]

We are. This is. This is the greatest crossover event of the century. This is. This is where Slate Money, where we nerd out about finance and money stuff, crosses over and is. And which is hosted by me, Felix Salmon of Bloomberg, crosses over and incorporates the best podcast in the entire Slate universe, which is Anna Sales, Death, Sex and Money. Anna, you are the heart if I am the brain. I'm not much of a brain, but you definitely have. You have brain and heart. And we are here to talk a little bit about the emotional side of money, which I feel is something that people don't talk enough about.

[B]

Here's. Here's how I think of it. If you've ever pulled up a retirement calculator and tried to figure out if you're on track, we're going to talk about all the things that come up in your body that you have to talk about with when you put in those numbers.

[A]

Exactly. So I know this is great. And I. And in. If everyone who's watching this on the YouTube, which is the perfect place to watch this, the other person here is genuinely for realsy, no joke. My financial advisor, Adriana. Welcome, Introduce yourself.

[C]

Hi, Felix and Anna. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to chat today as you introduced. I'm Adriana Adams. I am the head of financial planning at Domain Money, but I'm also a certified financial planner, which is really just a fancy way of saying I help people deal with their money every day.

[A]

So, okay, so you help people deal with their money. And this is the thing that I have realized. I first realized this about 10 years or so ago when I was talking to someone who was working for one of the big Swiss bank private banks, and they were talking about the people who do, you know, they look after the money of very, very rich families.

[B]

People who bank with private banks.

[A]

People who bank with private banks. Exactly. And they were saying that when they were recruiting people into this job of being a private banker in Switzerland, the place that they recruited was not business schools. It wasn't, you know, MBA programs or CFA programs or anything like that. It wasn't even. It was the hospitality industry. They would find people who are really good in like the first class, first class section of airplanes or like high end restaurants or something like that, because really this is all about just making people feel comfortable, making people feel good, rather than, as you say, Anna, making people feel terrified to even think about it. And Adriana, as someone who like deals with normal people rather than multi billionaires, I want to ask you, to what extent is your job really just holding people's hands and saying it's okay to talk about money? It does not need to be terrifying. I'm not here to scold you. I am not here to tell you that you're spending too much and you're not not saving enough and just trying to make people put them in the psychological space of even just being able to think about this.

[C]

It's funny you say that, because I actually thought you were going to say, Felix, that they went to somebody in psychology to hire at Swiss Bank. Now, I did not see your answer coming, but I would say to me, personal finance is probably 80% personal and 20% finance. So I would say the vast majority of my time and of a CFP's time is really talking about a client's values and their goals and who they are, rather than the actual number crunching and the math side of it. It's immensely tilted towards psychology and personality.

[A]

And is that something that one gets trained to do or do you just need to kind of work it out?

[C]

I actually wish I would have gotten second degree in psychology or something because I do feel like you have to just naturally be good at it or get some sort of training. It is one of the things that I learned very early on in getting real world experience in the industry was how other people interacted with their clients and figuring out how to do that in my own way. Because they don't teach you it in.

[A]

Finance school and presumably in this, you know, I mean, all of our meetings have been over zoom. Presumably this is not. You can't learn the old fashioned way, which is by sitting next to someone and overhearing what they're saying.

[C]

Exactly. It's. It's actually more difficult online. You make a. You make a really great point. You have to be even more articulate and pay even more attention to the very small cues, especially when you're dealing with partners or couples because you don't. You can't pick up as much as you can in person necessarily on the little things going on or some of the body language, depending on the frame of the video. Um, so you do have to pay very close attention to really pick up on some of those small things, especially online.

[B]

Felix, can I ask you what you noticed about Adriana working together, how she approaches this work? You talk about money in your professional life, you are a business journalist and I feel like it's quite a compliment that you get to talk to Felix about his personal money and I want to know what he likes about you.

[A]

But this is exactly it, right? So one of my toxic traits is that I was like, I know about money, I write about money for a living. Like, no one needs to tell me this shit. And so it took me, and I certainly don't need to pay someone, you know, 1% of my assets every year to tell me stuff. I already know about the importance of diversification. And so I never really thought that this, that thought that this was for me until I realized that for all that, I was completely confident in my own abilities. My wife was not quite as confident in my own abilities and she, and she would always be a little bit nervous about like, money things. And I was like, well, that's. And also I would be nervous about money things because it's deeply psychological and just because you have a certain amount of money doesn't mean the nervousness goes away. And I realized that hearing from someone who could speak a little bit more with a little bit more emotional nous than I have, rather than just saying, ah, number seems fine, don't worry about it, which, which turns out not to be very reassuring would, would. Would be incredibly valuable. And then not to plug Adriana's company too much, but they have this amazing system where you just pay them like a fixed dollar amount rather than the 1% thing. And so at that point it just became a no brainer.

[B]

Uh huh. I see. You didn't feel like she was coming. You felt like it was a good deal and it was something that you were willing to invest in.

[A]

And it turns out that for all that, it was really good for Michelle, my wife. It was equally good for me. There was that all of the sort of psychological hang ups I had about money. It turns out that, you know, Adriana, as a professional psychologist is, is very good on that. No, I mean, I'm joking, but I'm also serious that I do think in many situations the Stuff that people spend thousands and thousands of dollars and hours going over with their therapist and struggling with can and could be dealt with much more easily and much more quickly and much more cheaply just by sitting down with someone like Adriana for a session or two.

[B]

What do you mean by that? Like, what have you found, Adriana? Like Adriana, what do you find that people can perseverate over that you can kind of cut through?

[C]

That's a really good question. I think the biggest thing for me is being able. Something that you touched on, Felix, is being able to listen to two people and understand what both of them are trying to accomplish. And then how do I speak both of their languages to get them both on the same page and buy into the action item that is going to help them both achieve the goals that they want. Right? Because when you're talking to two different people, they think about things differently. They could be saying the same thing just in a different way, but they don't realize it. Right. And that's something that I think, like you were saying, Felix, is like really understanding. Like, how can I speak your language and the finance language, but also just speak layman's terms and talk to Michelle and bring you guys to the same page and make. Make it easier to really agree and make a decision. In the end of the day, that's. I think what I love about my job the most is helping people gain the confidence to make financial decisions. Right. I'm not making the decision for them. I'm educating them and showing them the pros and cons and some of the options and certainly telling them which one I think is the best fit for them. But in the end of the day, it's your decision what to do with your money, and I want to make sure that you're completely confident with that decision.

[A]

So there is a wonderful privileged world of middle class podcasters where when we think about personal finance and financial advice and all of this kind of thing, the first number that jumps into our head, the first word that comes into our head is like retirement 401k. It's like this idea that the main thing that we should be focusing our planning around is however many years it is in the future. And are we going to have the requisite standard of living when we're no longer earning money? And this is of course, obviously a great source of stress people keep on. You know, people have this very annoying habit of like calling up their 401k accounts and seeing how much money is in there and like deciding that if it's, you know, it should probably be higher or if it's gone down, that's bad. And if it's gone up, that's good. This kind of.

[B]

I do that.

[A]

And so I have two related questions for you, Adriana. The first one is, do people massively over index on retirement when. Or a certain type of people massively over index on retirement when they start thinking about personal finance and their own money? And relatedly, is that a function of the financial services industry more broadly realizing that the way that it can sell products to individuals is by focusing on retirement?

[C]

There are broadly, I think, two types of things that people focus on primarily. Either people are too focused on living their life today and not enough about retirement, or the opposite, and they're not living their life enough today and they're focusing too much on the retirement piece. Um, so those are the two things that I see, I feel like, which is interesting. And actually usually if I'm meeting with spouses as well, one of them is doing one and the other is doing the other, which can be a good balance, actually. Yeah. But I do think that there's a lot of things targeted towards retirement because it is. If you get somebody thinking about that, it definitely pulls on those emotional strings. Right. Because then all of a sudden you either have seen someone in your family go through a really great retirement experience or financial. Financial experience, or you've seen somebody go through a really tough experience and having to retire too early and not having enough, or you've seen both. Right. But usually you're kind of emotionally tied to one of those experiences and that's what you think about. So I do think there's a tendency to kind of lean into that and talk about retirement to get people interested in certain products or financial instruments. But I do think it's worthwhile being one of the most talked about things. I'm a huge fan of making sure that your bookend goals are met first. Felix, maybe you remember this from one of our first chats.

[B]

What's a bookend goals?

[C]

Yes, what are the bookend goals? It is short term liquidity and your long term financial security. So I do really want to help everybody live their very best life today. But you can't live your best life today if you don't have the financial security and peace of mind of knowing you have enough cash on hand in case anything comes up and that you are actively saving enough or already have enough saved towards retirement. If you know that you already are saving what you need to or that you have enough already. Saved. Then suddenly the burden of making financial decisions today of where you spend your money and how much you spend, going out to eat or on vacation, it suddenly doesn't matter anymore because you know that your other goals are already being met. So I do think there's a lot of value in everyone focusing on retirement. To circle back to your first question, Felix.

[A]

So that is, you have all manner of whiz bang softwares and lines on charts and whatnot where you're like, yeah, you're looking good. Oh no, I think you should be putting more in this kind of stuff. This message is a paid partnership with AppleCard. Anyone who has traveled internationally knows that the logistics of a trip can be challenging. That's why I use Apple Card for basically everything I buy when I travel, which if you've listened to this show before, you know, is a lot. It's easy to use and it's designed to take advantage of the power of iPhone. I think I spent 10 weeks in Europe this summer and every day, multiple times a day I was using my Apple card on my iPhone with Apple pay. So if you're like me and love to travel, you may want an Apple card. Apply in the Wallet app today and discover how Apple cards can power your journey. Subject to credit approval. Apple card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and.

[B]

More@Apple card.com I feel like I've had really wonderful, life changing conversations with financial planners where I have felt, seen.

[A]

Wait, you have?

[C]

I have.

[A]

Wait, wait.

[C]

Tell us more about that.

[A]

When, where, how. But.

[B]

Well, here's, here's what I'm going to say. Like where I feel, seen, I feel their curiosity about how things are going at work. I hear like, I like the way they talk to my husband. I like the way they talk about how we make financial choices together and how we, they equip us with a new shared vocabulary. I feel it's, it's fun to feel someone paying very close attention to you and your values invariably by the last 15 minutes of the call we are hearing about. It would also be better if you were saving more for retirement, you know, and we are retirement savers. So I have a little bit of a kind of like conspiracy theory that like, you know, there's, you mentioned there that there have been people you have helped, Adriana, who you say like you have the building blocks in place where you're going to have a comfortable retirement. I don't really believe that.

[C]

Well, okay, I need to hit on something that, what you were saying that triggered it is. And I don't know how the financial planners that you've met with were compensated or what their incentives were, but in my position, I have absolutely no financial incentive to tell you to do anything with your money. My compensation does not change, no matter which decision you make, because you're paid, like, hourly.

[B]

You're paid for a session as opposed to getting a piece.

[C]

So it's. It's not quite just like a shrink, really.

[A]

It is.

[C]

So we.

[A]

Adriana Zawa has 50 minutes.

[C]

The tiers are essentially based on what you need help with, not how much money you have. So, yes, that's the core of it. Right. So what do you need help with and where are you at? And then there's a fair price to pay for the professional guidance you're looking for help with.

[A]

But I need to just go completely sideways for one second here. You're like, here are the tiers, which is like T, I, E R S. But, like, how often. How often, Adriana, do you get the other kind of tiers?

[C]

Ooh, often. Often. I would say, you know, a couple times a year, which in my experience is often because I try to avoid getting the tears too much, because sometimes you're like, I'm not doing a good job if I get the tears. But other times, if you get the tears, actually, you are doing a really good job digging it.

[A]

We've had a great fluor.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. I always tell clients like, this is. There's no judgment here. Like, I'm here to do and talk about whatever you need to talk about. If you need to cry about an experience you've had or because you're feeling overwhelmed and anxious, like, let's do it. I usually will be crying with you because I can't handle seeing other people cry. So if you start crying with me, just know that I will be crying with you.

[B]

But you were gonna tell us about people who have actually gotten their act together for retirement, and are these people who just have wealth and they were gonna be fine in retirement no matter how they planned?

[A]

If you have $15 million, a lot of money in the bank, then, like, at that point, boom, after you receive.

[C]

Your trust fund money, you're in really good shape, so no longer need worry. No, I'm totally kidding. They're honestly not. They're usually people that have just been conscious about their finances and have made smart decisions. It's that simple. If you are spending less than you've made, that is a really great place to start. Right. If you are actively saving, but it's about figuring out what you want to achieve. I mentioned this earlier. If you know what you want, it's very easy to make the right decisions. But if you don't have a long term plan, you don't know what decisions you should or shouldn't be making. So if you put it down on paper, you know, I want to be financially independent by 50. Right. Then you have something to work towards. It's like I would compare it to maybe something that's a little bit easier to digest for other people is if I want to be the CEO, my own boss, or the CEO of my own company 10 years from now, you could map out what you should be doing every single year to get there and you could probably make it happen.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So the people who are usually fine are the ones who have thought about it in some capacity. And I always say, though, if you never have before, the best day to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best day is today. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh well, I haven't planned like it's all out the window because I didn't look into the future yet. Absolutely not. Like today's the best day to get that plan in place and figure out what you should be doing.

[A]

Obviously we can joke about trust funds, but the intuition is that the more money you make, the more financially secure you are. I mean, is that broadly true?

[C]

No.

[B]

Ooh, take a look.

[C]

I would say I have worked with clients who make a lot of money that you would think you would be extremely financial secure. But if your lifestyle creeps up with your income creeping up, you feel the same insecurity that somebody making 1 20th of what you makes. If, if your spend to income ratio is the same, then you're going to have the same insecurities. Just because you make more money does not mean that you'll be more secure if you don't know how to do the right things with it.

[A]

So that's, I mean, that's kind of reassuring for, for most of us, right? Like it's like you don't actually, like, it's not like, I think most people think that if they earn 50% more than they're earning right now, then all of their money worries go away and then they get upset that they haven't received the big raise and they're never going to make that much money and therefore they won't be able to be financially secure. But like the, the message is even if you do wind up making a lot more money, that in and of itself does not solve the problems. You still have to do this thing that you're going to have to do anyway, right?

[C]

More money, more problems. Right? Who said that? I don't remember.

[A]

You know, it's not easy looking after three different houses, Adriana.

[C]

No, it's not.

[B]

Here's another question I have that I feel like where my emotions really come into play. I am somebody who really likes instructions and doing homework. And I feel like there's an illusion with retirement planning that you can put some numbers into a formula. Maybe it's not an illusion. And you can kind of guess where you're going to end up in. That does. And then they'll remind me. Anna, just so you know, this is all. You know, there is risk. We can't guarantee returns. You're going to have to. You're going to have to face your fear of uncertainty. And I. I have a hard time with that because I want to feel like I can. If I do the things that you tell me to do, this is what's going to be the outcome.

[C]

I have a question for you.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So once you figure out the number you need to save, do you know what you're supposed to do with it, though? Or, like, what account? Like you said, you like homework, right? So do you have a very prescriptive list of, like, okay, this goes here this month, I'm doing this, or what. What type of accounts you're using?

[B]

Kind of. I'm one of those people who has like a set of things that are. Set it and forget it. Like things that are pulled out of my direct deposit from work. My husband works for a university, so for now he's got. He's got. He's got a public pension waiting for us, God willing, one of the few. The university doesn't close before he turns 65. But then I do have a lot of. Where I get caught is stuff like, oh, well, there. Even if I have stuff in index funds, what if there's an AI crash coming? And should I be doing something to manage this in this moment? Because everybody's telling me uncertainty in the market right now and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So this question of, like, what I can set and forget and just follow the path and what I need to be actively managing because I'm a vigilant person.

[C]

Got it.

[B]

Is there one answer to that?

[A]

Yeah. No. I mean, there is. I mean, if you ask me, I would say that there definitely is an answer to that. Right. Which is actively manage as little as possible and just and really, the, the optimal frequency with which you check in on your investments is like once every other year. Adriana will say like once a year.

[B]

Really?

[A]

I'm saying once every two years.

[B]

Yeah, like you really do that, Felix? Yeah, once a year. Once every two years.

[A]

It's like the less often you do it, the better, the happier. And there are SSRN papers, there are like empirical papers showing this is.

[C]

I agree. I. I love those stats. I couldn't agree more. I do usually say once a year because. But that's more so for like planning opportunities. That's why I say that. Because the tax code changes every year, right? Or not every year, but there's. There's going to be little things that change that we want to stay on top of. But as far as like checking your 401k account once a year at most, because you will not. I mean, at least what is. I wish I had the stat on hand, but like, let's say approximately nine times out of ten, if you only check it once a year, you're gonna see green, right? Like, whereas if you check it every other month, you're gonna see some red. And all of a sudden you have way more anxiety that you just would not have had if you just didn't look at it.

[B]

You're telling us to trust the process.

[A]

If I can just like do my little rant about financial services companies as well. Like, they. Their UX is all about maximizing Agatha. And stress, right? So that if you open up, if you have savings in a brokerage account and you open up the brokerage account, the first number you see, the biggest number you see is how much it did today, today, like, versus yesterday. As though anyone cares about what happens over a one day time horizon when they're investing for 30 years. It's completely insane. And of course, you know, markets are basically a random walk. So that means there's a 50% chance you're going to see a negative number the minute you open up that screen. It is so stupid.

[C]

I couldn't agree more.

[B]

And what do they get out of making us agitated?

[A]

They think that you're going to buy their expensive services of like, holding your hand.

[B]

Okay, well, my main takeaway is I'm deleting the app from my phone.

[A]

Delete the app.

[B]

I do it.

[C]

I love it. I love that.

[A]

Do it. But yeah, delete the app. You will be happier. You won't need to pay your therapist nearly as much, and you will save money just by deleting the app. So that is the takeaway from this episode of Sleep, Death, Sex, and money, I guess.

[C]

Delete the app.

[A]

Delete the app. Delete your Twitter. That will help. Delete your. Your 401k app. That will help even more. And yeah, Adriana, thanks so much for coming on. It's been so great having you here.

[C]

Thanks for having me, Adriana. This was awesome.

[B]

Thank you, Felix.

[A]

And thanks to Shayna Roth and the whole Slate crew for putting this show together.