Podcast Summary: Slate Money – "Money Talks: Psychopathy and Success"

Episode Date: April 14, 2026
Host: Elizabeth Spires (for this episode)
Guest: Dr. Leanne Tenbrink, Associate Professor of Psychology and author of Poisonous People

Episode Overview

This episode explores the intersection of dark personality traits—particularly psychopathy—and professional success, especially within business and finance. Host Elizabeth Spires interviews Dr. Leanne Tenbrink about her new book Poisonous People, drawing on Tenbrink's research into the ways these traits manifest in the workplace, their effects on organizational culture, and how individuals and organizations can recognize and mitigate the harm they cause.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Dr. Tenbrink’s Research Journey ([03:07]–[06:52])

• Dr. Tenbrink’s academic background explores deception, dominance, and "dark traits" in both criminal and business settings.

• She transitioned from studying psychopaths in forensic settings (incarcerated offenders) to business environments, hypothesizing that these traits might confer competitive advantages in fields like hedge fund management.

• Key Finding: Contrary to her expectations, hedge fund managers displaying higher levels of psychopathic behavior actually performed worse, earning roughly 1% less per year than their less psychopathic peers—a compounding disadvantage over time.

  "Those who had displayed more behaviors associated with psychopathic personality traits ... made less money every year. About 1% or so less."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [05:44]

Prevalence of Dark Traits in Leadership ([06:52]–[07:52])

• Studies show psychopathic traits are three times more prevalent in senior management than the general population.

• This may explain the commonality of negative experiences with "bad bosses," characterized by bullying and a drive for dominance.

  "They want the people below them to feel small. ... They tend to be more likely to bully subordinates, leading to high stress and high turnover."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [07:18]

Defining Psychopathy and Dark Personalities ([07:52]–[10:17])

• Psychopathy: Defined as a set of traits including manipulativeness, shallow emotions (particularly deficit in remorse or guilt), impulsivity, risk-taking, and rule-breaking. It exists on a spectrum.

• Dark Tetrad: Psychopathy is one of four key "dark" traits, along with Machiavellianism, narcissism, and sadism. All center on callousness and manipulation, though each has unique characteristics.

  "All of us land somewhere on this trait from very low to very high. ... These are also traits that exist on a continuum."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [08:06]; [10:17]

Identifying Dark Traits in Business Leaders ([11:03]–[12:49])

• Observational cues (verbal and nonverbal) such as constant interruption, calm under stress, incongruent emotional signals (angry language with a smile), excessive self-focus, and enjoyment at others' misfortunes.
• These are probabilistic signs—not absolute—best understood as data points rather than definitive markers.

Why We Mistake Dark Traits for Leadership ([12:49]–[14:38])

• Traits like grandiosity, domineering presence, and confidence are often conflated with good leadership—especially in times of uncertainty or crisis.

• Over time, confidence can mask incompetence; ruthlessness or action-orientation may appeal during crises but can backfire.

  "We tend to confuse that confidence for competence. ... A double-edged sword."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [13:01]

Organizational Hiring Practices and Culture ([14:38]–[17:02])

• Job ads emphasizing ambition and "thinking outside the box" disproportionately attract narcissistic personalities.

• Toxic leaders shape toxic cultures: behaviors like zero-sum thinking, internal competition, high turnover, and knowledge hoarding can spread organization- or industry-wide.

• The impact of a few highly visible, toxic leaders can overshadow the many effective, non-toxic leaders.

  "It's really like a few loud people that are kind of sucking up a lot of the oxygen. ... Focused on the negativity they tend to bring."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [18:38]

Coping Strategies: Working with Psychopathic Bosses ([22:22]–[27:09])

• Establish common ground (even minor points) to tap into in-group allegiance and reduce aggressive responses.

• Use strategic (gentler, question-based) feedback delivery, especially with narcissistic bosses, to avoid triggering defensiveness.

• Written rules and explicit boundaries are more likely to be respected; social norms or unwritten codes are often disregarded.

  "Just writing the rules down ... and we'll do something if you don't follow these rules improves their behavior."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [25:27]

Lying, Deception, and Industry Norms ([27:09]–[30:00])

• People with high dark traits exhibit more frequent and egregious deception; certain sectors—early-stage tech, finance—may foster these behaviors.

• Personality is hard, but not impossible, to change; meaningful improvement is slow and requires self-motivation, typically lacking in those high in dark traits.

  "Manipulation is, like, at the core of these dark traits, and so deception, therefore, is highly likely."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [28:07]

How to Spot Dark Personalities, Fast ([30:00]–[31:19])

• Look for repeated small cues: boundary-pushing, inappropriate emotional responses, excessive self-talk, joy at others’ expense, and disregard for social signals.
• Initial impressions are data points to be refined as more is learned about someone's behavior over time.

Does Power and Wealth Exacerbate Dark Traits? ([31:19]–[32:51])

• Power "activates the self;" it makes most people less generous, but can make those with existing dark or virtuous traits more extreme.

• Power and wealth may give those with latent dark traits more license to express them unchecked.

  "If you have some of these latent traits, it would be very unsurprising to me that you're then very unconstrained in terms of displaying those traits."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [32:51]

Dark Traits and Neurodiversity ([32:51]–[35:25])

• While impulsivity overlaps between ADHD and psychopathy, core psychopathic traits—callousness, manipulation—do not.

• Empathy differences help differentiate dark personalities from neurodivergent conditions: cognitive empathy may be impaired in autism but is intact in psychopathy; affective empathy is specifically reduced in psychopathy.

  "Cognitive empathy ... is totally present in psychopathy. In psychopathy, it's affective empathy ... that is diminished."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [34:32]

Societal and Organizational Costs ([35:25]–[37:58])

• Disproportionate harm: a small number of individuals with high dark traits account for outsized stress, turnover, and costs—in both organizations and criminal contexts.

• In the US criminal system, those with clinical psychopathy account for half of all serious crimes but only 20% of the prison population—a $2.5 trillion societal cost.

• Early intervention (especially for youth) is highly cost-effective (1:7 savings ratio).

  "A really small number of people ... have this incredible outsize harm. ... If we can do something to manage that small set ... it can be really quite powerful."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [37:26]

Treatment and Hope ([38:01]–[39:06])

• Cognitive behavioral therapy can be effective for youth with these traits, especially when focusing on positive rewards rather than punishment.
• Treatment’s biggest challenge: keeping individuals engaged and motivated.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On assumptions about psychopathic success:
  "My hypothesis was completely wrong."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [05:26]
• On confidence vs. competence:
  "We tend to confuse that confidence for competence."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [13:14]
• On toxic leaders’ outsized influence:
  "It's really like a few loud people that are kind of sucking up a lot of the oxygen."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [18:38]
• On feedback to narcissistic bosses:
  "If you frame it as a question ... they're going to be more likely to just, like, hear you and potentially do something about it."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [24:32]
• On early intervention:
  "Every dollar that we put into that treatment saves us $7 just in criminal court costs."
  —Dr. Leanne Tenbrink [37:34]

Highlighted Timestamps for Important Segments

• Dr. Tenbrink's background & hedge fund study: [03:07]–[06:52]
• Defining psychopathy & dark tetrad: [07:52]–[10:17]
• Behavioral cues for dark traits: [11:03]–[12:49]
• Why "strong leader" isn't always good: [12:49]–[14:38]
• Toxic cultures in tech & business: [16:22]–[18:38]
• Coping with a psychopathic boss: [22:22]–[27:09]
• Lying and personality change: [27:09]–[30:00]
• Spotting dark personalities: [30:00]–[31:19]
• Power, wealth, and dark traits: [31:19]–[32:51]
• Costs and early intervention: [35:25]–[38:01]
• Treatment strategies: [38:01]–[39:06]

Conclusion

This episode of Slate Money provides a deep dive into the science of dark personality traits in the workplace, challenging popular myths about the advantages of psychopathy in business and leadership. Dr. Leanne Tenbrink offers evidence-based strategies for identifying, surviving, and mitigating the harm these individuals can cause, both at the organizational and societal level. Her perspective is ultimately pragmatic and even optimistic: while dark traits are destructive and costly, their prevalence is limited and actionable strategies can reduce their impact.