Podcast Summary: Slate Money – "Open Borders" (Nov 30, 2019)

Main Theme & Purpose: This episode of "Slate Money" dives into the radical concept of open borders through an engaging conversation with Bryan Caplan, George Mason University economist and author of the graphic documentary "Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration." Hosts Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Anna Szymanski discuss Caplan's provocative arguments favoring completely open immigration policies, the expected economic impact, moral and political challenges, and Caplan's broader views on parenting and higher education. The discussion is spirited, thoughtful, and at times contentious, aiming to challenge assumptions about migration, demographics, and what makes a healthy society.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to Bryan Caplan and His Books

• Caplan is introduced as a "professional contrarian" (Felix Salmon, 00:51), having published books challenging conventional thinking about immigration ("Open Borders"), parenting ("Selfish Reasons to Have More Kids"), and the value of education ("The Case Against Education").
• "Open Borders" is described as a "documentary comic book" that aims to be accessible to a wide audience, including children (Bryan Caplan, 02:12–03:34).

2. The Core Argument: Open Borders

• Caplan's central thesis: "Countries should just open their borders ... and just allow anyone who wants to come into the country to come in" (Felix Salmon, 02:36).
• Economic rationale: Caplan estimates that open borders would result in roughly "$90 trillion a year" in additional global wealth, though these gains would materialize slowly as people tend to move gradually (Bryan Caplan, 05:15–06:07).
  • "There's so much fantastic human talent that is trapped right now in low productivity countries. And you really can transform a person's productivity just by moving them from one country to another." (Bryan Caplan, 05:35)

3. Audience Priors and Persuasibility

• The hosts express a spectrum of prior beliefs:
  • Emily Peck admits she hadn't considered fully open borders but found Caplan's book persuasive: "We used to have open borders; it was fine. That’s how my grandparents got here." (Emily Peck, 03:57)
  • Anna Szymanski is "intellectually convinced" but worries about messy political realities: "People have a tendency to mess up economic models." (Anna, 04:29)

4. Economic and Political Realities

• While economic models suggest broad benefits, the conversation pivots to adjustment costs, political backlash, and geographic distribution of immigrants.
• Caplan: "The ultimate amount [of immigration] is so astronomical that we shouldn't expect to get a large percentage of that huge amount overnight." (11:20)
• Anna Szymanski warns of real-world risks: political instability, far-right backlash, increased xenophobia, and the danger to vulnerable migrants (12:56).

5. Moral Dimensions and Backlash

• Felix and Caplan debate the moral imperative of enabling migration for climate and war refugees. Felix:
  • "On a moral level, you can't just leave them to die."
• Caplan frames anti-immigration backlash as "extreme narcissism" and a tribal instinct that needs to be morally overcome (14:49).

6. Uneven Distribution, Inequality & Democratic Participation

• Anna raises concerns that open borders could lead to greater inequality and a class of rightless workers, citing the Gulf States as models where immigrants live better than where they came from but are denied rights (19:27–22:50).
• Felix and Anna debate the "brain drain" problem—whether emigrants’ home countries suffer from the loss of their most productive people (24:10).
• Caplan offers Puerto Rico as a case where open migration benefited the sending region via remittances and knowledge transfer (25:23).

7. Parenting: The Case for More Kids

• Caplan argues that parenting, as popularly practiced, is unnecessarily burdensome due to unfounded beliefs in the long-term impact of intense parental investment:
  • "There’s just a lot of work saying that the family that raises you has a much smaller effect on how you turn out than you think." (Bryan Caplan, 29:53)
• His “coupon” for parents: Drop the needless intensiveness, and having (more) kids becomes a joy, not a burden (36:38).
• Hosts counter that the economic burden of child-rearing—not just overparenting—keeps birthrates low (Emily Peck, 31:54).

8. Higher Education: Value and Critique

• Caplan argues education is overrated as a driver of social and economic progress. Most classroom learning is not relevant to real jobs:
  • "Most of what you actually learn in school is not going to be useful in real life ... It’s really a kind of rat race." (Bryan Caplan, 39:54)
• He critiques the "credential inflation" that makes higher education necessary for jobs that once didn’t require degrees (40:52).
• Emily and Anna push back, emphasizing the civic, social, and non-economic benefits of an educated populace (42:35–47:10).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Bryan Caplan (on open borders):
  "Once you accept that we're losing like $90 trillion a year, you could list a thousand downsides of $10 billion each, and you're still nowhere close to saying this is a bad idea." (09:21)

• Anna Szymanski (on real-world risks):
  "What often ends up happening ... is you have destabilized governments, you have the growth of far right parties ... there are some very real consequences." (12:56)

• Felix Salmon (on moral stakes):
  "There is a temptation which I think should be probably resisted to say, well, so long as they're suffering in Bangladesh, it's not our problem ... But if they're suffering in the United States, it is our problem." (13:52)

• Emily Peck (on anti-immigrant backlash):
  "A lot of that backlash and the anti immigration propaganda comes from people who actually ... don't even live near immigrants. It's like a rhetoric of fear and ignorance." (15:23)

• Bryan Caplan (on inequality): "We have a long track record of seeing what happens when you have a very large increase in production. It always works out ... being widely shared." (20:01)

• Bryan Caplan (on parenting):
  "It is not true that parents have to make themselves miserable in order to be decent parents ... You can cut back on a lot of the things you don’t like doing and still be a great mom." (38:31)

• Emily Peck (on the cost of children):
  "What costs money about having children isn't soccer practices or tutoring. It's healthcare and housing and childcare. And those aren't optional things." (34:46)

• Bryan Caplan (on education):
  "We've created a system where we have encouraged education so much that you really have to do it in order to get the same job that your parents or grandparents could have gotten right out of high school." (40:52)

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction and Book Overview: 00:00–03:34
• Caplan’s Open Borders Thesis: 03:34–06:07
• Economic Modeling & Migration Flows: 06:07–09:21
• Climate Refugees & Urgency: 09:21–11:20
• Political Reality and Risks: 11:53–13:52
• Moral Weighing (US suffering vs. global suffering): 13:52–15:23
• Sources and Nature of Backlash: 15:23–17:00
• Inequality & Democratic Risks: 17:00–24:10
• Sending Country Impacts – Puerto Rico Example: 24:10–26:13
• Parenting and Birthrate Debates: 28:35–39:36
• Higher Education Value, Rat Race & Social Role: 39:36–47:10
• Numbers Round & Close: 47:26–50:21

Tone and Language

The conversation is lively, inquisitive, and often laced with dry humor and Socratic questioning. Felix leads with gentle skepticism, Anna is the structural realist, and Emily brings in real-world concerns and motivations. Caplan’s tone is analytical yet playful, consistently seeking to reframe the costs and benefits of societal decisions in both economic and ethical terms.

Final Note

This episode is rich in argumentation and evidence, challenging listeners to reconsider their assumptions about borders, migration, child-rearing, and education. Whether or not you agree with Caplan’s radical proposals, the thoughtful debate and range of perspectives offer valuable food for thought on some of society’s thorniest questions.