Slate Money – "Pay Offs & Lay Offs" (May 31, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode of Slate Money, hosted by Felix Salmon with co-hosts Emily Peck and Elizabeth Spiers, dives deep into the shifting sands of the labor market, particularly in the context of high-profile layoffs, severance culture, and the growing impact of AI on white-collar employment. The discussion starts with Felix’s own departure from Axios, uses his experience as a starting point to reflect on changing norms around job exits, and extends to broader industry trends—including the fate of stablecoins, meme stocks, and the ongoing transformation wrought by artificial intelligence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Felix’s Exit from Axios and the New Culture of Layoffs

• Timestamps: 00:31–15:37

• Departure Transparency: Felix shares the ambiguity around his separation from Axios, noting it's rarely clear-cut at higher organizational levels and normally shrouded in corporate “doublespeak.”

  • “There's this big sort of weird cloud of opacity around it and everyone's smiling... you're never quite sure what happened and whether it was voluntary or whether it wasn't...”—Felix, [01:44]

• Stigma Shift: Emily notes that the stigma around being laid off, especially in media and tech, has faded significantly since 2020, with openness now common on social media and platforms like LinkedIn and Substack.

  • “There's a whole new culture of being open. I've been laid off of being open on LinkedIn and social media.”—Emily, [03:09]

• Severance Negotiations: Felix highlights that negotiating severance is crucial, as companies’ initial offers are rarely their best and there’s no penalty for pushing back.

  • “The downside to negotiating the terms of your severance is zero... just absolutely try and negotiate that 100%.” —Felix, [14:28]

• Reasons for Severance: Both Elizabeth and Emily discuss why companies offer severance even for at-will employees: reputational risk, litigation avoidance, and discouraging remaining employees from panicking.

  • “If they have to leave, I think [treating people well] mitigates all of that.”—Elizabeth, [07:20]
  • “They want other people inside and outside the company to think that they are a good employer. They want to keep their reputation solid for when they need to hire more people.”—Emily, [07:55]

• Changing Job Identity: The continued American association between work and self-worth makes layoffs still hard to talk about on a personal level.

  • “We associate work so much with self worth and it becomes a real piece of people's identities…”—Elizabeth, [10:02]

2. AI’s Impact on White-Collar and Entry-Level Jobs

• Timestamps: 15:37–27:34

• AI as Disruptor: The panel discusses AI’s role in accelerating layoffs, especially amongst white-collar and entry-level employees, and fears of an “epochal extinction event” with spiked unemployment.

  • “According to wise folks, including the CEO of Axios, it's about to happen to everyone... there is going to be an epochal extinction event of workers in general and white collar workers in particular and entry level white collar workers in particular.”—Felix, [14:38]

• Coding Jobs and Copilot: Elizabeth highlights the irony that coding, once considered recession-proof, is now being shaken up by AI tools like Microsoft Copilot, which reduce demand for human coders and make existing jobs less creative.

  • “Somebody…being yelled at by tech people who don't like my coverage to learn to code. And now it seems like that's not anymore a completely stable path for anyone.”—Elizabeth, [18:21]
  • “Your productivity goes up...But your job satisfaction goes down and your replaceability goes down as well.”—Felix, [19:07]

• Narrowing Value of College Degrees: Emily references an Oxford Economics report noting that the unemployment gap between new college grads and non-degree holders has nearly disappeared, possibly due to AI eliminating many of the “grunt” entry-level jobs.

  • “In 2025, the difference between non college and college 20 something year olds has really, really narrowed. And I think AI is really...playing a role here.”—Emily, [21:54]
  • “We're beginning to slowly see the contours of a future in which the value of college, the financial value of college basically starts evaporating.”—Felix, [23:07]

• Skills-Based Hiring and Higher Ed Cuts: The White House and Congress are pushing for skills-based hiring amid university funding cuts and barriers for foreign students.

  • “Congress passed a law last year encouraging what's called like skills based or merit based hiring for the federal government...”—Emily, [23:34]

• Long-Term Job Apocalypse? The hosts debate whether AI will create as many new jobs as it destroys, referencing historical parallels like the automotive revolution.

  • “The auto industry has done a great job replacing the horse and buggy industry.”—Emily, [26:07]
  • Felix is less optimistic: “We have now reached a kind of inflection point where AI is replacing jobs rather than powering jobs.”—Felix, [26:59]

3. Crypto, Stablecoins, Meme Stocks & Trump Social’s Bitcoin Play

• Timestamps: 28:30–40:15

• Stablecoins Ascendant: Felix breaks down the growing significance of stablecoins (crypto-tokens pegged to the dollar). Deregulation is making them ever more entrenched in the financial system.

  • “The reason that people are into stablecoins right now is because there is this massive deregulatory fervor blowing through Washington.”—Felix, [28:56]

• Risks & Transparency: The discussion covers the difference between opaque Tether and transparent Circle, and the real risk that stablecoins could become “too big to fail.”

  • “USDC was...based on this is truly transparent...But when push came to shove...Tether stayed worth a dollar...and USDC was the one...that had the scary wobble…”—Felix, [32:04]

• Why Own Stablecoins: They function as liquid “chips” on crypto exchanges—essentially digital cash equivalents for traders.

  • “It's the chips that you have in front of you before you gamble them by buying a Solana or a Doge or whatever.”—Felix, [33:54]

• Circle’s IPO and Profits: Circle is planning to go public at a lower valuation than in prior attempts, with most profits coming from investing the dollars backing its stablecoins. Part of the profit goes to maintain market share, e.g., paying Coinbase.

  • “Most of their money...people give them dollars and then they give them USDCS in return. And USDCS are only worth $1. Meanwhile, those dollars they can invest in T bills and those T bills earn interest and they get to keep the interest.”—Felix, [35:10]

• Government Digital Dollar Missing: The panel wonders why the US doesn’t issue a central bank digital currency (CBDC). Political climate makes such an idea toxic, especially among MAGA voters.

  • “I feel like we haven't heard about the CBDC for years...in this MAGA world, it's kind of an article of faith among maga that CBDCs are a bad thing.”—Felix, [36:35]

• Trump Social and Bitcoin Strategy: The Trump Social platform is raising $2.5 billion to buy bitcoin, following a “meme stock” logic. However, unlike others, DJT’s stock moved down on the news, possibly because it already traded at a meme premium.

  • “All of their share prices have gone up except for DJT stock...which went down when they announced they were buying bitcoin, so they can't even get that one right, it seems.”—Felix, [38:54]
  • “The premium it was trading at was even bigger than the premium it would have been trading at if it was just a bitcoin company.”—Felix, [39:26]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The downside to negotiating the terms of your severance is zero...just absolutely try and negotiate that 100%.” —Felix Salmon ([14:28])
• “There's a whole new culture of being open. I've been laid off...on LinkedIn and social media.” —Emily Peck ([03:09])
• “Your productivity goes up...But your job satisfaction goes down and your replaceability goes down as well.” —Felix Salmon ([19:07])
• “We're beginning to slowly see the contours of a future in which the value of college...basically starts evaporating.” —Felix Salmon ([23:07])
• “If you have two and a half billion dollars of bitcoin, you can do what you like.” —Felix Salmon ([37:35])
• “Congress passed a law last year encouraging what's called like skills based or merit based hiring for the federal government...”—Emily Peck ([23:34])

Numbers Round Highlights

• Elizabeth: 70 — The number of new subscribers per day OnlyFans creator Megan Baker got after erecting a billboard in LA, highlighting the creative advertising shift for adult entertainers. ([40:30])
• Felix: 6 — The number of correct answers Felix scored on his Learned League daily quiz, celebrating trivia prowess thanks to Liz’s recommendation. ([43:07])
• Emily: $59,398 — The amount Jeopardy! contestant Brendan Liaw won over three shows, proudly described as a “stay at home son”—a modern twist on postgraduate joblessness. ([43:39])

Structured Timeline of Significant Segments

• 00:31: Felix announces exit from Axios
• 03:09: Trends in layoff transparency/stigma
• 07:20: Reasons for severance & corporate reputation
• 14:28: Felix recommends always negotiating severance
• 15:37: AI’s threat to white-collar jobs
• 21:54: Unemployment convergence: College vs non-college grads
• 23:34: Policy & hiring shifts in higher education
• 28:56: Deep dive on stablecoins, Circle’s IPO
• 37:35: Trump Social/Bitcoin meme stock analysis
• 40:30: Numbers round—OnlyFans, trivia, Jeopardy!

Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation maintains Slate Money’s trademark blend of insider candor, wit, and skepticism. The hosts mix personal anecdotes (especially Felix’s layoff) with data and sharp analysis, occasionally disagreeing but always returning with follow-up facts and a mutual respect for nuance in an era of seismic change.

Bottom Line for Listeners:
Negotiate your severance, don’t count on college as a security blanket, pay attention to AI’s effect on careers, and remember that in the meme-driven financial world, things never remain stable for long—even for stablecoins.

For more in-depth coverage, bonus segments, and ad-free listening, Slate Plus subscribers can access additional content (including the US Steel segment with Dan Primack) via the Slate Money show page.