Slate Money: Food – Fast Food

Podcast: Slate Money
Episode Title: Fast Food
Date: April 7, 2020
Host: Felix Salmon
Guest: Marcia Chatlin (Author of Franchise: The Golden Arches in Black America, Professor of African American History at Georgetown University)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Felix Salmon interviews Professor Marcia Chatlin about the complex relationship between McDonald’s, the franchise model, and Black America. The discussion covers the origins of McDonald’s in Black communities, food deserts, the franchise business model, the interplay of race and capitalism, and ongoing efforts for food justice. Chatlin, whose book Franchise explores these themes in depth, provides historical context and thoughtful analysis on the impact and legacy of fast food restaurants in African American neighborhoods, while questioning whether capitalism can deliver healthy communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. McDonald's & Black America: A Complicated Relationship

• Main question: Is McDonald's net positive or negative for Black America?
  • Chatlin resists simplification: “McDonald's provides a prism for us to understand the relationship between racism and capitalism in America... Relationship status, it's complicated.” (01:58)
• The fast food chain offered limited economic opportunity and access, but the pervasive issues of race and economic inequality persisted.

2. Historical Roots: Late 1960s Aftermath

• Origins: McDonald's began opening in Black communities after the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr. in 1968.
  • This move was partly a response to white-owned businesses fleeing these neighborhoods, and franchisees’ fears of “future uprisings.” (04:16–04:45)
• Federal programs aimed at racial equality favored major corporations like McDonald’s, rather than small, community-only ventures.
  • “The doors that opened the widest were...linked to the strength of capital of major corporations.” (05:44)

3. Food Deserts and Big Business

• Food deserts: Grocery stores were rarely considered “small businesses” and thus received little government support, unlike fast-food franchises.
  • “Grocery stores were not considered small businesses for the purposes of the Small Business Administration...no incentives for grocery stores to open.” (07:12)
• The economic model made it easier to start a franchise than a grocery store or other small business.

4. Economic Cycles, Community Tensions, and Exploitation

• White business and grocery store owners abandoned Black urban neighborhoods after uprisings, citing risk, high insurance, and resentment over exploitation (e.g., higher prices, poor service, reliance on police).
  • “[These] businesses...because they had a captive market, sometimes charged higher prices for lower quality goods.” (09:06)
  • The cycle: disenfranchisement breeds frustration, leading to uprisings, further business departures, and continued decline. (08:41–10:29)

5. Racial Segregation & Franchise Ownership

• Black franchisees were generally only able to open restaurants in Black neighborhoods due to institutional assumptions and discrimination:
  • “...to be successful as a black business owner, you are often in a black neighborhood...how do you then move beyond that model in a hypersegregated world?” (11:00–12:32)
• Evidence of discrimination when Black franchisees tried to open in white areas, including intimidation and isolation.
  • “They experienced intimidation as a result, or they found themselves...isolated from the other franchise owners.” (12:51)

6. The Public Role of Franchise Owners

• Unlike the “uniform” branding, franchise owners—especially in Black communities—often take on social support roles: giving out scholarships, sponsoring health screenings, encouraging civic participation.
  • “...in black communities, the person who franchises the restaurant is giving out scholarship checks...sponsoring the health screening, who you might hear on the local urban radio station...” (14:40)

7. Present and Future: Food Justice and Systemic Challenges

• Awareness growing around food justice, but inequities remain: continued prevalence of fast food, food deserts, and low-wage work.
  • “We continue to have communities that are isolated from grocery stores or...can still only afford to enjoy fast food even as the food options continue to expand.” (16:11)
• New models (e.g. D.C. Central Kitchen’s Healthy Corners, double SNAP at farmers markets) show promise but operate against the grain of capitalism.
  • “...all of them seem designed in some way to counteract the natural tendencies of a capitalist system.” (18:41)

8. Capitalism, Racism, and Solutions

• Chatlin argues that capitalism fundamentally constructs and perpetuates these problems.
  • “There’s no issue...that doesn’t require a deep and rigorous and robust critique of capitalism. These are the problems that capitalism creates...” (19:26)
• International comparisons miss the point: those societies have robust social safety nets mitigating capitalism’s effects.
  • “...the examples you give of these other nations, they also have incredibly well funded social systems...” (20:43)
• “Black capitalism” (creating Black millionaires within the same system) is not a solution. (20:43–21:37)

9. Parallels with Poor White Communities

• White and rural communities also rely on McDonald’s for jobs and services, but Black communities face a deeper, more historic lack of resources, making McDonald’s broader role more essential and burdening.
  • “...the role that the business owner has to play in covering a lot of the gaps in black communities...I think that burden and that expectation and that responsibility is higher.” (22:03)

10. The Future of Fast Food in Changing Neighborhoods

• Emergence of “fast casual” options will create nutritional and social stratification.
  • “...big fast food companies [will] really be the choice of the working poor and the hyper poor.” (23:58)
• Gentrification shifts McDonald’s urban presence, as the company is a major real estate owner and may repurpose its properties as neighborhoods change and Black or poor residents are displaced.
  • “McDonald’s is one of the largest real estate holders in the country...I think that's also part of what will happen...we see [Black franchise owners] more in suburbs...” (25:28–26:44)
• Franchise ownership—and even corporate benevolence—will follow rather than lead demographic and economic shifts.

Memorable Quotes

• “McDonald’s provides a prism for us to understand the relationship between racism and capitalism in America.”
  – Marcia Chatlin (01:58)

• “Anytime African American community need is responded to within a frame of you get this or you get nothing, we see that there’s very little to celebrate.”
  – Marcia Chatlin (03:12)

• “The doors that opened the widest were the ones that were linked to the strength of capital of major corporations.”
  – Marcia Chatlin (05:44)

• “Grocery stores were not considered small businesses for the purposes of the Small Business Administration...no incentives for grocery stores to open.”
  – Marcia Chatlin (07:12)

• “These are the problems that capitalism creates, even as it tries to convince us that some people are getting rich and some people are getting jobs, but some people are being left behind.”
  – Marcia Chatlin (19:26)

• “We can’t solve the problems created by capitalism by infusing capitalism into the framework.”
  – Marcia Chatlin (20:43)

• “McDonald’s is like in the business, on some level, of providing social services, which is...really kind of not what it was designed to do.”
  – Felix Salmon (23:24)

Notable Segments & Timestamps

• 01:52: Chatlin introduces the “complicated relationship” between McDonald’s and Black America
• 04:16–05:44: Historical context: MLK’s assassination and introduction of McDonald's to Black communities
• 07:12: The origins of food deserts and the policy distinction between grocery stores and fast food franchises
• 11:00–12:32: Structural barriers keeping Black franchisees in Black neighborhoods
• 14:40: The unique social roles of franchise owners in Black communities
• 18:41: Critique of capitalism: food justice initiatives as countermeasures
• 20:43: Structural racism, “black capitalism,” and global comparisons
• 23:24: McDonald’s functioning as a social service provider
• 25:28–26:44: The significance of McDonald’s as a real estate owner amid gentrification

Tone and Language

The conversation is thoughtful and analytical, weaving historical facts with current realities, and avoids easy answers. Chatlin’s tone is educational and probing, while Salmon balances earnest curiosity with skepticism about the possibility of systemic change.

Summary Takeaway

McDonald’s has played a nuanced, often ambivalent role in Black American economic life—as both an imperfect opportunity and a product of systemic racism and capitalism. The franchise model filled economic and social gaps where governments and small businesses failed or fled, but this solution is deeply embedded in the logic of capitalism and segregation. Structural food inequality persists, and current food justice innovations offer hope but face formidable market forces. As neighborhoods and populations shift, so too will the faces and places of fast food franchising, but without more fundamental changes, the entanglements of race, capitalism, and health are set to continue.