Slate Money: Food – “GMOs”

Date: March 31, 2020
Host: Felix Salmon (Slate Podcasts)
Guest: Michael Specter (Staff Writer at The New Yorker; Adjunct Professor of Bioengineering at Stanford)

Episode Overview

This episode of the Slate Money Food miniseries dives deeply into the world of genetically modified organisms (GMOs), the vulnerabilities and structures of food supply chains, and the public health lessons (and failures) highlighted by the coronavirus pandemic. Michael Specter brings scientific clarity to the controversies and misconceptions surrounding GMOs, discusses the intersection of politics and public health, and explores how bioengineering may shape the future of agriculture and disease treatment.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. COVID-19 Transmission: Surfaces, Food, and Masks

• Transmission via surfaces:
  • The virus responsible for COVID-19 can live on surfaces (especially metal) for several hours, and there is a reasonable possibility that some infections result from touching contaminated surfaces and then one’s face (01:26–02:23).
• Role of masks:
  • Wearing N95 masks is effective, but standard hospital masks are less protective for the uninfected. Masks are especially important for those already infectious to reduce spread. There’s been confusion in public health messaging regarding mask usage (02:31–03:13).
• Testing and Immunity:
  • Knowledge of who is immune is critical to safely supporting the food supply chain and essential work. Specter emphasizes the need for widespread antigen testing, comparing U.S. efforts unfavorably with countries like South Korea, Malaysia, and Singapore (04:05–05:22; 05:26–06:20).

Michael Specter (04:05):
“We need to have people know if they are immune because a lot of people had [COVID-19] and had it in a very minor way ... once you get infected and get better, then you can't get reinfected, at least not for a year or two.”

2. Food Supply Chain Fragility and Efficiency

• Fragility vs. localization:
  • Modern food supply chains are extremely efficient but also fragile due to their international scope. Specter concedes that while the U.S. could weather a short-term disruption, longer crises threaten availability and distribution (06:20–08:03).
• Specialization and Monoculture:
  • Economic logic encourages specialization (e.g., massive mono-crop farms), but this increases systemic risk from disease, drought, and pests. Monocultures—GMO or not—are especially vulnerable (08:36–10:28).

Michael Specter (08:36):
“If you're growing lots of food, ... and your corn crop suddenly dies... you have other many other things to sell and grow and eat. If you grow 10,000 acres of corn... one bad virus goes through that corn crop and that's the end of all the food you're growing. So intellectually, economically, it probably makes sense to focus on these things, but it's a gamble.”

• Industrial animal agriculture risks:
  • High efficiency comes with health dangers: dense chicken farms, widespread antibiotic use, and vulnerability to viral outbreaks like bird flu (08:36–10:28).

3. Origin of Epidemics and Political Response

• Animal origins:
  • Specter reiterates that most recent epidemics (SARS, MERS, Ebola, COVID-19) are zoonotic and often arise from bats via intermediate animal hosts, facilitated by live markets (10:28–11:27).
• Government failures:
  • Blame is placed on the Trump administration for dismantling pandemic preparedness infrastructure and delaying response, although the broader systemic issues predate any single administration (11:31–13:53).

Michael Specter (12:00):
“It would be better [with a different president] because I'm pretty sure that any other human being who was president wouldn't have instantly disbanded the group within the National Security Council that was dedicated to preventing these sort of pandemics.”

4. Monoculture, Industrial Agriculture, and GMOs: The Real Risks

• Monoculture is the main problem:
  • The debate over GMOs and organic food is often misplaced—what matters most in crop resilience is biodiversity and rotation, not genetic modification versus organic practices (13:53–16:57).
• No evidence of GMO harm:
  • After several decades and trillions of servings, there has not been a single proven case of a human being harmed by eating GMOs (14:17–16:57).

Michael Specter (14:17):
“Everyone's eating GMOs ... There's never been one case in the world anywhere ... that shows that anyone has ever been made sick by eating a GMO. Zero out of several trillion is a good number.”

• Organic food more vulnerable to contamination:
  • Organic produce is often more susceptible to pathogens like E. coli due to its production methods (17:05–18:45).

Michael Specter (17:05):
“I think that things that are organic are more easily contaminated ... That’s why you see lots of E. coli outbreaks in this country.”

• Everything we eat is “genetically modified” in some fashion:
  • Most foods, including those labeled “organic,” result from centuries of selective breeding or other forms of genetic manipulation; the distinction is largely artificial (18:45–19:24).

5. Agriculture Subsidies, Fast Food, and Chronic Disease

• Subsidies drive unhealthy diets:
  • The U.S. government subsidizes crops like corn, soybeans, and sugar beets, fostering the supply of inexpensive processed foods and contributing to public health problems like diabetes (21:17–23:47).
• The role of convenience:
  • Socioeconomic realities and the need for convenient, cheap food are the real forces behind crop subsidies, not malice from food companies or farmers. The health system then bears the cost of diet-related chronic diseases (23:47–24:11).

Michael Specter (21:41):
“We like fast, convenient food... It would make more sense financially to just subsidize food that's worth eating, and then we wouldn't have to spend nearly as much money in the sort of chronic diseases that we, now have to pay in health care costs.”

• Don’t blame GMOs for broader food system ills:
  • Critics wrongly conflate GMOs with problems actually caused by industrial food practices and economic incentives (24:11–24:39).

6. Positive Roles for GMOs and Bioengineering

• GMO benefits in developing countries:
  • Specter cites drought-resistant crops and vitamin-A enriched “golden rice” as examples of GMOs that solve real public health problems in resource-poor regions (26:55–30:55).

Michael Specter (27:04):
“Golden rice ... has the precursor to beta carotene ... Many hundreds of thousands of kids in the developing world go blind ... because they don’t have enough vitamin A ... You can cheaply eat 80 grams of rice every other day and have no problem. And yet there's almost nowhere in the world where you're allowed to plant this rice ... because Greenpeace ... has decided it’s the wrong thing to do.”

• Activism and public resistance:
  • Resistance to GMOs in rich countries, sometimes driven by environmental advocacy groups, can have real human costs abroad. Most lay resistance is based on discomfort with corporate control, not scientific evidence (30:55).

7. Declining Ability for Collective Public Health Initiatives

• Contrast to past successes:
  • Universal public health successes like fluoridation and iodization occurred in an era with strong national coordination—implementing such measures today would face immense political and cultural resistance (30:55–32:41).

Michael Specter (31:29):
“I agree with you ... I shudder to think what would happen if we tried to make fluoride [in water] ... a reality now ... The lunatic fringes are so vocal, valuable and successful.”

8. A Note of Optimism: The Promise of Bioengineering

• New frontiers in health and agriculture:
  • Bioengineering (distinct from traditional GMOs) opens possibilities for disease treatment and agricultural innovation not tied to major corporate interests, and enjoys broader public support—pointing to hope for rational science-driven solutions (32:53–34:28).

Michael Specter (32:53):
“Bioengineering ... can cure diseases and change plant life in a way that's useful ... And when I talk to people, they're not anti this ... Science works. Go invest in science.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On pandemic response:

  “There is nothing about this epidemic that should surprise anyone except at how poorly we’ve reacted to it.” (10:32 – Michael Specter)

• On the false dichotomy:

  “This GMO argument ... people are still ... debating this now ... Everyone’s eating GMOs ... There’s never been one case in the world anywhere ... that shows that anyone has ever been made sick by eating a GMO.” (14:17 – Michael Specter)

• On fast food and public health:

  “It would make more sense financially to just subsidize food that's worth eating, and then we wouldn’t have to spend nearly as much money in the sort of chronic diseases that we, now have to pay in health care costs.” (21:41 – Michael Specter)

• On technology and hope:

  “Science works. Go invest in science.” (34:28 – Michael Specter)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• COVID-19 and food safety: 01:26–04:42
• Supply chains & local food movement: 06:20–08:36
• Monoculture & industrial risk: 08:36–13:53
• GMO vs. organic & safety evidence: 13:53–18:45
• Subsidies, fast food, & chronic disease: 21:17–24:39
• GMO benefits in developing countries (golden rice): 26:55–30:55
• Fluoridation, public health, and collective action: 30:55–32:41
• Bioengineering and future optimism: 32:53–34:28

Episode Tone

The conversation is frank, energetic, and often irreverent—scrutinizing policy failures, puncturing food myths, and championing scientific literacy and progress. Specter’s tone is blunt but hopeful, consistently advocating for rational, evidence-based public policy and innovation.