Slate Money: Succession S2E1: "Silica Mud Treatment"

Summary

Slate Money: Succession S2E1 Recap – "Silica Mud Treatment"

Podcast: Slate Money
Hosts: Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, Matt Levine
Guest: Ed Lee (New York Times)
Date: August 12, 2019

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Episode Overview

This special Slate Money Extra episode kicks off a mini-season of Succession recaps, focusing on Season 2 Episode 1, “Silica Mud Treatment.” Hosts Felix Salmon, Emily Peck, and Matt Levine, along with guest Ed Lee, break down the episode's key plotlines, character arcs, and real-world financial parallels, blending sharp business analysis with irreverent, fan-like enthusiasm. Spoilers ahead!

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Main Discussion & Key Insights

1. The Real-World Inspirations Behind Succession

• The Roy family's dynamics and drama are drawn from several real media dynasties, including the Murdochs, Redstones, and Dolans.
  • Ed Lee [03:10]: “It’s a very smart sort of melange of all the big powerful families.”
• Specific elements—like family buyouts, wayward sons, and rivalries—mirror notable business history (e.g., CBS/Viacom's Redstone saga, Murdoch’s empire).

2. Recapping the End of Season 1 and Its Fallout

• Emily Peck summarizes [05:42] the Season 1 finale: Kendall’s failed coup and involvement in a fatal car accident (“Chappaquiddick scenario”) solidify Logan’s hold over his son.
• The family’s ruthless dynamics, including Logan’s leveraging of Kendall’s guilt, drive the new season’s emotional tone.

3. Kendall’s Brokenness: A Central Theme

• Season 2 opens with Kendall in an Icelandic spa, emotionally and physically shattered.
  • Matt Levine [07:13]: “It’s not just my favorite line of the episode. I think it’s going to be my favorite line of the whole series… 'I meant to have a silica mud treatment.'”
  • Emily Peck [08:59]: Describes Kendall as “utterly broken”—called a “sweaty corpse," "waxy, like an unshaven candle," a "dead man walking," “Mr. Potato Head," and “my plastic adversary.”
• The contrast with season one's opening—Kendall's arrogance and hope—is stark.

4. Business Accuracy and Satirical Nuance

• The show’s attention to financial details is lauded but sometimes veers into “MacGuffins.”
  • Matt Levine [10:39]: Praises how the first season subverts expectations by quickly resolving what first seemed its central dilemma (Logan’s health/succession).
  • Felix Salmon [11:44]: Credits the show with capturing industry anxieties about tech giants disrupting legacy media—echoing Murdoch’s decisions to sell to Disney.

5. Media Industry Parallels: Tech’s Threat to Legacy Media

• Ed Lee explains [12:40] the existential threat that tech (Facebook, Netflix, etc.) poses to traditional media and why the Roys (and Murdochs) consider selling.
  • “That whole media infrastructure is just dying… Rupert Murdoch selling out actually made complete sense.”
• Logan’s Dilemma: Does he cash out while he can or double down and risk irrelevance?

6. Character Deep-Dives & Plot Notes

• Kendall’s TV Appearance: Blank repetition—“I saw their plan and my dad’s plan was better”—as a trauma response and PR tactic. [15:23]
  • Emily Peck: “He can’t say the truth, which is like, oh, I accidentally did a murder and my dad covered it up for me. So now I owe him everything. I’m basically his bitch.”
• Body Men & Inner Circles: Parallels to real-life moguls’ close aides who shield and sometimes cover for them. [16:26]
• Logan’s Scars & Backstory: Allusions to other moguls’ traumas (Sumner Redstone) and the hints at Logan’s own dark past. [17:19]

7. Boardroom, Stock Market, and Strategic Play

• Stock Price Dynamics: In a clever subversion [18:28], the family wants the share price to drop to fight off a takeover—unusual for TV or real business dramas.
• Deal-Making Realism: The subtleties of risk arbitrage and capital structure are incorporated into plotlines, sometimes with insider accuracy, sometimes as dramatic license.

8. The Summer Palace (Shitpit) Set Piece

• Emily Peck [22:50]: Describes the Hamptons palace as the backdrop for power games masked by ostentatious, yet wasted, displays of wealth (e.g., the lobster/steak dump over raccoon stench).
• Felix Salmon [24:48]: “They’re afraid to eat and they’re afraid to talk… Everyone’s afraid of Logan.”

9. Choosing the Heir: Siobhan’s Moment

• The emotional centerpiece is Logan’s conversation with Siobhan (Shiv) [27:16–27:43], in which he offers her the CEO succession.
  • Logan to Shiv [27:43]: “You are, Shiv. You're the one.”
  • Felix Salmon [27:52]: “She’s both awful but human… the one you relate to the most.”
• Discussion of Shiv’s real-life Murdoch analogue, Elizabeth Murdoch, and her outsider/insider status.

10. Roman, Tom, and Power Fantasies

• Roman’s bluster and Tom’s “delusional” ambitions for power provide comedic and satirical contrast.
  • Matt Levine [30:18]: “Anyone with the slightest glimmer of self-awareness would know [Tom being CEO] was zero possibility. But he is so delusional.”

11. Wealth Satire and Visual Comedy

• Tom alone on a yacht in a seersucker suit (not appropriate yacht-wear), with curtains drawn—lampooning clueless nouveau-riche behavior.

12. Power, News, and Political Parallels

• The show’s debates over whether to keep or sell the news division (and the political influence it brings) reference Murdoch’s attachment to news properties and broader questions about money vs. power.
  • Matt Levine [34:47]: “Murdoch talks to Trump every day on the phone. And the reason… is because he owns Fox News.”

13. Sandy Furness & the Malone Parallel

• Felix Salmon [35:50]: “Sandy Furness is John Malone”—a reference to the legendary cable kingpin and his real-world battles with Murdoch.
• [36:38] The term “asset swap” and hostilities with Sandy reflect genuine business tactics and power struggles.

14. Episode Climax: The Threat Message

• Kendall delivers Logan’s threat to Sandy—a moment celebrated for its bravado and writing.
  • Ed Lee quoting Kendall [38:22]: “He will send men to kill your pets and your wives, and it will never be over.”
  • Sandy’s dry reply: “Good. Well, let’s move ahead with that process, shall we?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (w/Timestamps)

• [07:18] Kendall, defeated at the spa:
  Matt Levine: “I meant to have a silica mud treatment.”
• [08:59] On Kendall’s state:
  Emily Peck: “His dad calls him Mr. Potato Head and my plastic adversary. Like, he’s just completely broken down.”
• [15:14] On Kendall’s PR response:
  Emily Peck: “He can’t say the truth… so he just says, ‘I saw their plan and my dad’s plan was better.’”
• [19:14] On stock price strategy:
  Felix Salmon: “Pour me some buckets of cold shit on the bid. All right?”
• [23:28] On the Summer Palace stench:
  Matt Levine: “It smells like the cheesemonger died and left his dick in the brie.”
• [26:27] Trump parallels:
  Emily Peck: “There’s a scene where Logan Roy… stiffs the contractor—out of Donald Trump’s playbook 100%... ‘My lawyers work for the Justice Department.’”
• [27:43] Logan’s offer to Shiv:
  Ed Lee as Logan Roy: “You are, Shiv. You’re the one.”
  Shiv: “I don’t think I’m the right person.”
  Logan: “Well… I think you are.”
• [38:22] The threat to Sandy:
  Ed Lee (as Kendall): “He will send men to kill your pets and your wives, and it will never be over.” Sandy: “Good. Well, let’s move ahead with that process, shall we?”
• [39:17] Favorite lines:
  Emily Peck (Cousin Greg):
  “I couldn't get anything better, it's Fashion Week. All the good penthouses are taken.”
  Matt Levine (Stewy):
  “‘He had to take a call.’ That's like a 1987 power move, dude.”

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Additional Highlights

- Tone and Style

• The hosts freely blend insider financial analysis with sly appreciation of the show’s satire:
  Matt Levine [22:29]: “Every single character is terrible… so that just kind of goes without saying.”
• Occasional asides about wardrobe, set design, and the show's gallows humor deepen the recap's fun.

- Final Thoughts

• Felix Salmon [32:45]: “That scene [with Shiv and Logan] really makes you want more… you don’t even believe it fully. He’s gonna dangle this. He’s gonna do his cat and mouse…”
• The hosts agree: Succession’s power games are just getting started; real decisions and betrayals lie ahead.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:27] - Discussion of real-world media family inspirations
• [05:42] - Recap of Season 1 finale and its fallout for Kendall
• [07:13] - Opening of S2E1: Kendall at the Iceland spa
• [12:40] - Media industry commentary: tech vs. legacy players
• [18:28] - The “cold shit on the bid” stock market subplot
• [22:50] - The Hamptons summer house set piece
• [27:16] - The Shiv-Logan CEO conversation
• [35:50] - Who is Sandy Furness? (John Malone parallels)
• [38:22] - Kendall’s threat message to Sandy (end of episode)

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Conclusion

Slate Money’s S2E1 recap expertly entwines business savvy, media history, and sharp humor to illuminate both the dramatic and satirical brilliance of Succession. With an eye for both financial realism and family dysfunction, the conversation primes listeners for the season’s ongoing Machiavellian intrigue and power struggles—both on-screen and off.

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Transcript

[Felix Salmon]

Foreign.

[Matt Levine]

Hello and welcome to the thing which I have been most excited about for about the past year, which is Slate Money Extra, the Succession Recap mini season of Monday morning Slate Money shows where you. You have all, of course, stayed up watching Succession last night because what else is there to do on a Sunday except for watching the greatest television show on TV right now? And we are going to just recap the entire episode and talk about what's going on with some of the most interesting people in media. I need to say this right up front. If you haven't seen episode one, don't listen to this show. Go and watch episode one. It's fabulous. And then you can listen to the show. All of these shows are gonna be filled with spoilers for all of the episodes. So don't listen to this show unless and until you've watched the show. Now, I am, of course, Felix Salmond of Axios. I am joined by Emily Peck of the Huffington Post, who is also a succession. Stan. Hello. And for this first episode of this little mini season, I cannot imagine anyone better to come on this show to join us than Ed Lee of the New York Times.

[Felix Salmon]

Ahoy. Ahoy, Ed.

[Matt Levine]

You have been covering all things media for decades.

[Felix Salmon]

Forever and ever.

[Matt Levine]

Forever and ever. I think Ed started somewhere in the 17th century. He knows everything about everything. And most importantly, you've been just as obsessed about this show as anyone.

[Felix Salmon]

I have been. I mean, I watched the first season as they aired as they came out, and I for the most part liked it, but I definitely had some issues. I mean, when you cover an industry so in depth for so long, you're like, eh, that's kind of not right. Yeah, that doesn't quite work.

[Matt Levine]

Were you worried that some of it wasn't quite verisimilitude in this?

[Felix Salmon]

No, but that's the thing is that I actually adore just how geeky it got about finance and media and corporate takeovers, capital stacks. Oh, absolutely. Like, this is kind of great. But then when you get it wrong, you're like, ah, why did you have to go do that now? Right. Like, it's almost better sometimes if they didn't quite go that deep because you're like, I mean, maybe I wouldn't be as interested, but.

[Matt Levine]

But yeah. So the thing which I was obsessed by more than anything else is like, who are these characters? Because everyone obviously sees Murdochs.

[Felix Salmon]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Levine]

You know, there are two sons who are sort of like rivals. There's the daughter who's kind of out of it, but kind of not out of It.

[Felix Salmon]

But there's the older. There's the older son who's like, who's sort of not really involved in the family. But that's prudence. Right. But there's overlap with the Redstones too. The family that controls CBS and Viacom, where there had been a succession battle for so long. It doesn't quite line up in terms of the structure with the kids because Sherrier Redstone is really sort of the only sort of biological heir apparent. There was an older son, Brent, who basically Sumner bought him out. Right. And so he lives in Colorado on a ranch. Right. So that's.

[Matt Levine]

So. So that's.

[Felix Salmon]

So that is Connor kind of. Right. It's sort of melding. It's a very smart sort of melange of like all the big powerful families.

[Matt Levine]

I know people who spent a lot of time working for the Dolan family and they see a whole bunch of Dolan's in here as well.

[Emily Peck]

Well, maybe before we get into the comparisons, we should just la who the characters are on the show and stuff.

[Felix Salmon]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Levine]

Emily, hit me. Tell me, who is Logan Roy?

[Emily Peck]

So Logan Roy is the patriarch. He is like Edmund said, he is basically the Rupert Murdoch. I think he's 85 years old when the series starts and he has some kind of health episode. Is it a stroke or heart attack or something bad happens to him. And he has four children. The oldest, Connor from his first marriage, and then the three other ones, two boys, the two boys and a girl from the second marriage. And the two guys are called Kendall and. What's the other one? Kendall and Roman and Shiv. Those are like the three heirs sort of battling for the company. Because Roman Roy runs this company, atn, which is like this massive media company.

[Matt Levine]

They have Royco was the tv, the tv.

[Felix Salmon]

But there's the parent company, Waystar Royco, that like it just. Again, like how they geek out on little details like that. We're like, well, actually there's this parent company called Waystar Royco, which is clearly.

[Matt Levine]

The function of a merger between Royco, which is Roy's company, which Logan Roy's company, which he founded, which is the media company, and Waystar, which is clearly some kind of telecom thing that wound up.

[Felix Salmon]

Right. That he bought decades ago.

[Matt Levine]

Right, exactly. And then. And then of course, one of the great subplots of the first season is they put like the fuck up Sun Roman in charge of like a satellite launch, which is clearly part of the.

[Felix Salmon]

That was great. There was definitely sort of an Armando Iannucci flavor to that scene. Like the show. I'm gonna bring this in. Like Jesse Armstrong, the showrunner, he had worked with Armando on the Thick of It in the Loop, which are these. These BBC or British series that are sort of these really clever satirical takes on power and government and how things work.

[Matt Levine]

And of course, Armando did Veep, and.

[Felix Salmon]

He did Veep, for which Jesse was a writer. He had written a wonderful episode.

[Matt Levine]

And I have to say, like, if we're talking about the first episode here, there are definitely times like when Kendall, you know, turns around to his cousin Greg and goes, if my septum falls out, I'm gonna make you eat my septum. Which. Which is just pure Vee.

[Felix Salmon]

This is this, right? And this is. You were talking about last night's episode, right? The first episode, the second season. There's a lot of great one liners in there. You can't. I mean, I have a whole list here in front of me. So, you know, that is. That is definitely one of them.

[Emily Peck]

So before we get to the last night's episode, we should say at the end of last season, basically, the son, Kendall Royce, he tries to take over his father's company and then gets himself into this Chappaquiddick scenario where he basically gets this young waiter killed in a car accident. And his whole project of taking over his father's company goes completely sideways and he winds up weeping. His father basically gets him out of trouble.

[Matt Levine]

And.

[Emily Peck]

And that's kind of where we leave off with Kendall Roy going from about to become, you know, the man who took down his father to just this, like, broken, you know, just mess of a human being.

[Matt Levine]

The other thing which happened is all of this takes place at his sister's wedding.

[Emily Peck]

Yes. The worst, best wedding ever.

[Felix Salmon]

It ended up being a great sort of finale that way, where like this brutal kind of leveraging that the dad does on his son, which is sort of like, wow, that's just so cold, you know, taking advantage of this accident basically to like, get over on his son who's been trying to take over the company. And that bleeds into the first episode. We see the fallout from that.

[Matt Levine]

And so we open this season with Kendall, who is trying to break his drug habit in an Icelandic spa. And I honestly say, like, this is not just my favorite line of the episode. I have not seen the whole series yet, but, like, I think it's my. It's going to be my favorite line of the whole series. I love this so much. Which is when Kendall gets pulled out of his spa and is told to go on the television to try and fight this takeover bid that he instigated. And he looks kind of blankly at this Icelandic apparatchik and he says, I meant to have a silica mud treatment.

[Emily Peck]

Yes.

[Ed Lee]

I've only been here, like, 48 hours and I'm meant to have a silica mud treatment. Can I just. No, I'm sorry. It's not going to work.

[Felix Salmon]

The fact that you picked up on that. It was Iceland. I mean, what's great is that it doesn't. It doesn't say, they're in Iceland. You don't know it. Only if you had ever been there would you know that this is Iceland. Just the bleakness of it. And the specific sort of setup of, like, being in that sauna in the middle of, like, this blank field. Right. Which is exactly how they do it over there.

[Matt Levine]

And also, I mean, just to your point, Ed, about, like, the little things on this being super researched. Silica mud treatment. I actually looked it up.

[Felix Salmon]

Of course you did.

[Matt Levine]

It only exists in, like, the Blue Lagoon in Iceland. And apparently it is Blue Lagoon. Silica is a white mud known for strengthening the skin barrier, skin renewal, and deep cleansing.

[Felix Salmon]

So I have actually been to the Blue Lagoon, and I have actually put this silica on my body. And it's great. It's brilliant. So I would totally. I get why he wants it. I guess I get why Kendall is like, I'm meant to have that, right? Can I still have that, please? He's so broken in this, really, the first few episodes. I don't want to spoil anything going forward, but that sort of reckoning that happened at the finale really plays into the start of the season. And it works. It works really well. I think it's a really smart use where he's kind of on the sidelines, but still a factor.

[Emily Peck]

There are so many lines where other people are describing Kendall as just utterly broken. Shiv calls him his sister, a sweaty corpse. Tom Wambs games her new husband says he looks waxy, like an unshaven candle, which is one of my favorite lines. Another. At another point, he's called a dead man walking. His dad calls him Mr. Potato Head. And my plastic adversary. Like, he's just completely broken down. Like, the sight of him dripping water, being pulled out of that. What does it feel like, some kind of hot spring or something? Yeah, just dripping water in his white robe. He's just like. He's. It's like he's not even a person anymore.

[Matt Levine]

He's a wet rat. And this is in stark contrast to season one, episode One which opens with him psyching himself up in the back of a car by listening to the Beastie Boys as he's going in to try and, like, do some deal with some hotshot tech company, right?

[Felix Salmon]

He's the man.

[Matt Levine]

He's like, you know, he's pumping himself up, and he's also clean at that point. And, you know, he's very proud of having, you know, conquered his drug addiction demons. But, of course, they come back.

[Felix Salmon]

I mean, my issue with that character, the way he sort of played out, at least in the first season, is that he. It was so stark where he was so the man all of a sudden, like, oh, I don't know what's happening next. And then, you know, my wife and I'm back on drugs and, you know, everything's falling apart. I just wish there were moments where he tried to fight back a little bit more, and it didn't quite happen. At least in this first episode of the second season, you totally get why he's broken, right? You could see why he's just hollowed. And it's kind of interesting that way. It's just really kind of, wow, like, this guy. This is. This is what a dead man walking really looks like.

[Matt Levine]

So the first season did this really quite clever thing where they set it up in the opening episode of, like, Logan Roy has this stroke. The name of the show is Succession. Which of his kids is going to take over from him? And then, weirdly, you know, that entire plotline gets resolved in about episode four of season one, and then it starts getting interesting. And that was one of the things I loved about season one, was that the thing that you thought would be the big driving plotline for the whole season is, you know, the internecine fighting between the kids did not actually become that driving plot line in this season. Again, what we wind up with is this kind of. What's that wonderful Hitchcockian word for MacGuffin? It's a MacGuffin that you get this wonderful MacGuffin introduced at the very beginning, where Logan Roy is like, if I'm gonna fight back, I'm gonna have to name a successor. I'm like, why? No one ever explains why he needs the name of success in order to fight back. But I have a feeling this is also going to be one of those things that gets resolved by about season.

[Felix Salmon]

Well, I think there's more. This idea that the season needs to propel, right? So I think the idea of Logan Roy sort of dangling succession throughout the season, I think is sort of a Key driving force for, like, all the drama that takes place, I would say, in this last night's episode, what was really, really smartly done was that whole setup around, like, well, look, are you going to sell? Like, the tech companies are coming after you? Like, it really captures what's been happening with, in the real world, what happened with Rupert Murdoch's company, 21st Century Fox, where he sold to Disney, with all these other mergers that are happening. It's because of big tech coming in and kind of stealing your thunder.

[Matt Levine]

Okay, so, Ed, this is why we invited you on the show, because you actually understand this stuff and you can explain it. There is this another line in the. In the show where it's like, tech has its hands around your throat, says the banker to the patriarch. So can you explain what that means and why is tech, like, an existential risk to media companies?

[Felix Salmon]

So I think that scene that you're talking about really, really vividly captures the state of play, which is you're a big media company. That means you own movie studios and cable networks and maybe some broadcast networks, maybe some newspapers. We know what's happened in newspapers, right? No one's reading print. That's dying. TV people are still watching, but not the way they used to. So there are fewer people paying cable bill now, right? That cuts into 21st Century Fox and Disney to some degree, and a bunch of these other media guys. Why is that happening? Because everyone's on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and doing that thing. So in terms of entertainment, where your distractions are, cable is losing, movie theaters are losing, despite a few sort of outliers like Marvel. And that whole media infrastructure is just dying. It's dying a slow death. That's what makes it sort of frustrating, right? It's not a clear break. It's just every quarter there's this fewer people paying for television, fewer people going to movie theaters, and guys like Rupert Murdoch are like, what the hell, right? So him selling out, as surprising as it was for a lot of Murdoch watchers, just from a rational perspective, it, like, made complete sense.

[Matt Levine]

And that was actually almost directly referenced in this episode when Logan Roy gets his family around the table and says, like, we can sell, you know, his. His great adversaries, this guy Sandy, like, he's overpaying for Royco waster. We will get $10 billion if we sell right now. And that's clearly setting up at some point.

[Felix Salmon]

Well, what's great about. That's a great detail. 10 billion. Guess what? What did the Murdoch family get out of that Disney sale, they got 12 billion, right. So it was sort of like this perfect. Like, if you really want to read deeply into it, like, yeah, that's exactly that situation. Here's the thing, though. As we saw at the end of episode one, what was a resolution? Like, screw it, we're gonna stick with this. So it departs from reality in that really specific moment where he goes, honestly, if he.

[Matt Levine]

A cell at the end of episode.

[Felix Salmon]

One, that, yeah, we're over, right, like this. So it's. It's a clear departure from what's happened in real life, but it's done in a smart way where they acknowledge that what's going on in the world. Right. That's what's so smartly done about that.

[Matt Levine]

God, it looks terrible.

[Felix Salmon]

It's like a sweaty corpse.

[Ed Lee]

Yeah, it looks waxy. It's like an unshaven candle.

[Felix Salmon]

But I mean.

[Ed Lee]

You know, the long and the short of it is I saw their plan, and my dad's plan was better.

[Emily Peck]

So before we get to the end, we should say where Kendall went. We should talk about his TV appearance briefly, if not to just mention his talking point, which comes up several times over the episode.

[Felix Salmon]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Levine]

So it's so awesome. He gets past a little like 4 by 6 card in the back of his car in Iceland. And what does the card say?

[Emily Peck]

Emily, I saw their plan and my dad's plan was better, which is he.

[Felix Salmon]

Repeats that, like, to everybody. Like he's this automaton, right? Like, to his everyone, why did you back out?

[Emily Peck]

He can't say the truth, which is like, oh, I accidentally did a murder and be a good idea for me, and my dad covered it up for me. So.

[Felix Salmon]

So now I owe him everything. I'm like, yeah, I'm basically his bitch. And so there I can't do anything.

[Emily Peck]

So that's why I can't say any of that. So he just says, I saw their plan and my dad's plan was better. I think he it at least three times he says it on tv. And that woman is. Who is she? The pr.

[Felix Salmon]

She's a communicate. She's a communications person. She's like. She heads up. She's sort of like this very ancillary character, but just present enough that, like, it's this believable structure of like this big, you know, corporate behemoth that has all these different factotums going around. So she's that.

[Emily Peck]

And there are all these people around that sort of know more and that are just smarter, obviously, than any of the Roys that sort of know, are competent actually, you know, that layer beneath them, Right. There's the Colin, the body man, who basically helps cover up Kendall's crime.

[Felix Salmon]

You know, he and these CEOs, guys like Murdoch have body men. They've got like these like, sort of people who work for them, security for like years and years and years. I'm not saying they're doing cover ups like that. I'm just saying, like, they're not saying that. I'm not saying that either. But that, that's an essential part of like, this whole the mythos around these families and how they operate.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. And I want to get into that too, because the way Logan Roy talks to his son Kendall about the like, little murder thing he did, it just really seems like he has so much empathy for him. And I know that's strategic, but I also wonder, like, has he killed anyone?

[Matt Levine]

Maybe? This is my question for you, Emily. In season one, famously. Well, famously to me, I'm not sure how many other people picked up on this. Logan Roy goes swimming in a pool and you see that there's a whole bunch of like, scars on his back. Ooh. And I was like, wow. And that's clearly gonna be, you know.

[Felix Salmon]

It'S gonna mean something.

[Matt Levine]

Whatever. It's gonna mean something at some point. The first thing I thought of when I saw those scars on Logan Roy's back was actually Sumner Redstone hanging off the ledge of the hotel in Boston.

[Felix Salmon]

So Sumner famously survived this hotel fire where he was, you know, gripping like, and he was already an elderly man. He was in the 60s and he was. There's a hotel fire. He went to the window, he opened it up, and he sort of hung off the ledge of the window for like a long time apparently, until the. The fire trucks came and rescued him.

[Matt Levine]

He suffered dreadful burns. He was in the hotel room with his mistress, which just makes it even better.

[Felix Salmon]

And his hand had turned into a claw. Like there was some part of his hand he can't really use ever for, you know, after that, that moment.

[Emily Peck]

But yeah, Logan Roy definitely has a moment like that or more in his background that I'm hoping that at some point we get more of a taste of. Because there is that one scene where he tells his son, it's natural that you're gonna think about what happened, but you, you just can't think about it. You can't think about it very much. Like, you got to put that to the side. And it's clear Kendall really can't do that. And he's Just going to take the drugs.

[Felix Salmon]

And it sounds like the dad is speaking from some kind of experience, right? Yes, I've been there, son.

[Ed Lee]

Yeah.

[Emily Peck]

Yes.

[Felix Salmon]

You know what this is?

[Emily Peck]

Yes. It's all very dark.

[Matt Levine]

I need to geek out just a little bit about this episode on the very, very small, little stock price subplot. Because in season one, there was a whole bunch of people worrying about the share price and worrying that it was going to go too low. And if it went below a certain level, then that would cause a whole bunch of chaos to the capital stack and the balance sheet and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And the loans that I have some issues with that took out against his stock and all of this stuff. And so people were worried about the share price being too low. You come in season two, episode one, and everyone is worried about the stock price for the opposite reason. They're worried that it's too high. And Logan actually goes up to Kendall, his son, and gives him an instruction to, quote, pour a bucket of cold shit on the bid.

[Felix Salmon]

That's on my list. Pour me some buckets of cold shit on the bid. All right?

[Matt Levine]

And, like, the idea is people judge the success of Kendall's television appearance based on if he was successful, then the share price would have gone down. And they're like, well, it went down for a minute and then it went back up again. And so he wasn't successful. And the point, of course, is that the bid that he's fighting off is at a high price. And so if the share price goes up towards the bid price, that means people that the bid is going to happen. If the share price falls down below the bid price, that means they think that Logan Roy is going to win. So we're in this weird sort of bizarro world where everyone in the company wants the share price to be low.

[Felix Salmon]

What's great also is they never explain it. They never get into, like, here's why. Like, you know, mostly there's all this exposition. When you see some kind of a movie or a TV show, this is just like, no, we're not going to explain. All you have to do is read the emotions on their faces that, like, yeah, this sucked, right? So, like. But that's a great geeky moment. And I think, you know, for listeners who care about that stuff, you know, that sort of risk arbitrage, right? Whenever a deal is announced or a deal is in play between two companies, you know, there are investors who make bets, are like, you know, I think this deal is going to happen, or it's not going to happen. And the price goes up or down accordingly. That's another great one. I think this second season really, really crackles with, like, business sophistication. It does a really, really good job. Harkening back to the first season that you mentioned, I did have an issue with that whole the MacGuffin in the first season, which was like, oh, my God, like, he's in the hospital and, like, you need to take over. I have to tell you something. There's a debt situation that no one knows about. I'm like, what the hell? Here's the thing, though, is that historically, that kind of stuff does happen. There was an example with the National Amusement, Sumner Redstone's parent company, right. That owned CBS and Viacom, where he took out loans, the parent company took out loans against the price of CBS and Viacom, and he kind of hid it. And so when investors found out, they're like, what the fuck? And so he's like, no, it'll be fine. Don't worry. So that scenario has happened. The thing that didn't quite ring true from the fictionalized version is that somehow the debt exists on the public company's books. We're getting really geeky here. That would never happen. You would never happen in real life like that. If anything, it would have been better if, like, the debt holders actually owned the shares or holding onto them and, like, they had a covenant to sell at a certain price, which if they did, like, the family would start to lose control.

[Matt Levine]

There was a great phone call in the first season where, like, they're on the phone where Kendall's. Is it Kendall? I think it's Kendall.

[Felix Salmon]

He's trying to negotiate.

[Matt Levine]

Yeah. And the bank is like, fuck off. Yeah, I have. I have your nuts in advice. I can do whatever you want. You can't talk yourself out of this. And this is like a running theme, I think, in the whole show is Kendall, like, really wants to be tough and he can act tough, but, like, no one takes him seriously.

[Felix Salmon]

The setup is also sort of like, as much as you might sort of despise the dad for whatever reason, shareholders believe in him. You know, that's what they're buying into him as much as the fundamentals of the company. And, like, when there's a moment where Ken takes over, there's this sort of. I don't know, who is this kid? Do I trust him? Is he going to be a good leader? And I think that sort of reverberates through the whole season, which is like, are the kids good? Enough. Not just in the eyes of the dad, but like in the eyes of the world.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, the kids are terrible. I think the next scene that we need to talk about is the set piece of this.

[Matt Levine]

Yeah. So this is an Armando Iannucci DNA show, which means that every single character is terrible. So, like, that, that just kind of goes without saying. But yeah, if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, Emily, the best scene I think that Succession has ever done is the scene between Logan and Siobhan in the summer house in the Hamptons.

[Felix Salmon]

This is the moment.

[Emily Peck]

Let's talk about how we get to that moment. So they all go out to the Hamptons, to the summer palace, or the shit pit, as I think Roman calls it. And when they get there, you know, it's just this, like. What's great about Succession is, you know, it's like this kind of. It's wealth porn, but it's all kind of twisted and ugly looking. So, you know, you have this like, beautiful. I think at one point Logan says It's like a 200 million dollar house or something, and it's really beautiful. And you see everyone, like unloading these gigantic steaks and these lobsters. And then everyone who walks into the mansion is like, ugh, what's that smell? Right? And then the smell turns out to be literally a bag of raccoons stuffed.

[Matt Levine]

Wait, wait, can I mention, like another great line from the episode where Logan walks in to the, to the house and he says it smells like the cheesemonger died and left his dick in the brie.

[Emily Peck]

Yes, that was on my list, Felix, because the bag of raccoons. There's a bag of raccoons stuffed up the chimney. So. And that kind of hangs over everything. And then when they finally find the raccoons, Logan then makes them throw out all the beautiful food because it sat in the stink. And then there's this shot where Kendall is smoking outside, and then behind him are all these, you know, waitstaff throwing out lobster, steak, shrimp. It's just like disgusting.

[Felix Salmon]

And they're getting pizza. They're getting pizza to Picasso's, like, fuck this shit, I just want pizza.

[Matt Levine]

And then Siobhan is like.

[Emily Peck]

And no one eats anything.

[Matt Levine]

As Siobhan and Roman start walking into the dining room and then talking about what's going to happen. And Siobhan's like, oh, maybe we kill and eat Kendall as a pizza topping.

[Felix Salmon]

That was great.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. But no one eats even a bite of the food, which I thought was hilarious. Like, there's all this attention and money spent on all this food, it gets thrown away, they replace it with more stuff. No one eats any of it because no one actually cares about what money can buy. They just want to. They're just doing power plays with each other and nothing else even matters. Like all this wealth is for nothing.

[Felix Salmon]

They're afraid to eat and they're afraid to talk. Right? That's the whole point of that. He gathers them around like, what do you think I should do? Should I sell? Because he's responding to his bankers sort of urging him, look, you should just sell. Like the smart plays to sell. And it's a serious. It's not just some kind of political moment. It's like an actual. Here's what's happening in the real world.

[Matt Levine]

If you don't sell now, then your company is going to be worth much less in four or five years time. So the smart move is to sell now.

[Felix Salmon]

Exactly. And so he's earnestly asking the kids and the few executives in the room, what should I do? And no one wants to tell them what they really think because they're all afraid of him, right? Because there's this line for a moment where he's like, I like money and I'm afraid of you. And I'm like, that's it. That's exactly everything. That's all show. And so then we get to the point where he has this sort of one on one with the kids, right? To see, like where we're getting to this moment now, like, well, fine, if we're gonna stick with it, how do we do that? Right? And so succession is a part of that question.

[Matt Levine]

And so, yeah, and so like he, he decides, first of all, he brings in Roman who acts, you know, in classic Roman fashion, like talking about a bunch of words which he doesn't really know what they mean, but like, you know, sounding vaguely, desperately trying to sound like he has a clue what business his dad is in. Roman leaves, in comes Siobhan. And there's this unbelievable sort of game of cat and mouse between Logan and Siobhan where Logan basically calls her bluff by threatening to tweet. And this is, this is the other thing which I love about this episode is the, or this season even is I think they're going to start making tiny little nods at the Trump parody.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, yes, it was very Trumpy episode. There's a scene where Logan Roy kind of, he stiffs the contractor that is out of Donald Trump's playbook 100% where he says, I'm only gonna pay you 100,000. But he owes more than twice that much. Yeah, yeah. And he says, just sue me. My lawyers work for the Justice Department. That was completely.

[Felix Salmon]

Who do your lawyers work for? Right.

[Emily Peck]

Yes.

[Felix Salmon]

And the tweet thing is both a reference to Trump and also Elon Musk.

[Matt Levine]

Right.

[Felix Salmon]

Who. Like that. Yes. He's famous for. You know, he basically got himself in a hot water. Like, he actually had to, you know, pay a fine for tweeting things that weren't quite true.

[Matt Levine]

So. But yeah, so Siobhan basically says, yeah, sell. You know, honestly, just do it. Just sell. And he's like, okay. And he's like, if you don't want to take over, I'm gonna sell.

[Felix Salmon]

And then you could see this moment where she's just like, no, don't do it. It's this great, great emotional moment where you could see it in her eyes where she's like, man, shit, I want this.

[Ed Lee]

I do what I want. And what I've decided I'd like to do is to formally ask you to come in and be the next chief executive of this company.

[Emily Peck]

I don't think I'm the right person.

[Ed Lee]

Well, you know, I'm pretty smart, and I think you are. You are, Shiv. You're the one.

[Matt Levine]

Sarah Snook is the actor who plays Shaville.

[Felix Salmon]

Aussie. She's an Aussie.

[Matt Levine]

She's amazing. I think she's arguably the best actor on the show. She's so good.

[Felix Salmon]

She's the most compelling character for sure, because she's both awful but human. Right. And is sort of the one you relate to the most in the sense that, like, oh, you kind of. You get where she's coming from. And she seems more or less down.

[Matt Levine]

To earth, with the only exception of the one question, which everyone has about Siobhan. It's like, why did she marry that guy?

[Emily Peck]

She's the only. She's the only sibling that appears to be intelligent and knows what she's doing and competent at all. So when he says she's the natural successor, it's actually pretty believable. You're like, here she is.

[Matt Levine]

Who else could it literally be? She's also the only sibling who has ever had a job for anyone other than Logan Roy.

[Felix Salmon]

So.

[Emily Peck]

Yes, exactly.

[Felix Salmon]

Talking about real world sort of muses or examples. I mean, Elizabeth Murdoch, who is the daughter of Rupert Murdoch, for years and years and years, media observers were always sort of playing this guessing game, like, who's gonna win that one? And she was always sort of put forth as she's the one most like her dad in that the smartest and most capable. Also did not work for her dad for the longest time. Also worked at, you know, sort of in politics and sort of on a PR level.

[Matt Levine]

She was famously married to Matthew Freud, who was like, PR guy, king of PR in the uk.

[Felix Salmon]

So he's.

[Emily Peck]

Wasn't he, like, dopey? Like the way Tom Wambsgans is dopey? Is that an over.

[Matt Levine]

No, no, Matthew Freud is not dopey.

[Felix Salmon]

He's definitely a power player. Like, he's not.

[Emily Peck]

Okay.

[Felix Salmon]

I think it's a sort of this sort of funny character. I think the guy who plays him is so brilliant. It's just so.

[Matt Levine]

It's Matthew McFadden.

[Felix Salmon]

Oh, my God. It's just he's so, like, awful in this kind of obsequious way that you're.

[Matt Levine]

Just like, yeah, no, but, like, yeah. So Tom is definitely a character out of V. He's one of those caricature characters who's great for comic relief and for bringing a bunch of just sheer entertainment value into the show. And he's the guy who's wonderfully craven, swallowing his own semen. But. Yeah, but the way they get him into the show is by getting him to marry Siobhan. And that bit just doesn't really ring true.

[Felix Salmon]

It doesn't, but it's also kind of like he's such a known quantity to her that she knows she can control and that they have this open marriage and everything. I think it feels like, you know, it's more of a control move than it is I love this man kind of a thing.

[Emily Peck]

So, yeah, I think she. She wants someone she can actually have power over. Like, she's so clearly in the pole position. And he doesn't mind?

[Matt Levine]

Well, he does mind. I mean, this is.

[Felix Salmon]

No, he's not.

[Matt Levine]

He wants.

[Felix Salmon]

He genuinely.

[Matt Levine]

He genuinely thinks that he is in line to become CEO. Like, somewhere in that, like, mush of a brain of his is like this tiny little glimmer of ambition saying, I want to be the CEO of Roys. And like, anyone with the slightest glimmer of self awareness would know that was, like, zero possibility. But he is so delusional.

[Felix Salmon]

So delusional. But also because Siobhan herself sort of, you know, she's playing up to him too, a little bit. She has throughout the whole first season. And you can see it in the season one up until that moment, that scene with her and her dad where she's, like, on the verge of tears. Like, wait a Minute I think I want it, but she doesn't want to want it. That's the thing. You could see it in her face. It's like, why do I want to want this kind of a thing?

[Matt Levine]

Oh, can I also mention my other favorite little grace note about this episode and about Tom in particular? When the episode begins, Tom and Siobhan are on their honeymoon on their, like, 250 foot yacht in some, like, glamorous location or something. And the only people we ever see on this yacht is Siobhan and Tom.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes.

[Emily Peck]

And Tom is, in the beginning, the first scene, the curtains are drawn. They're like, on this boat, this beautiful view of the sea, and they have the curtains drawn.

[Matt Levine]

And they're trying to watch Kendall on the iPad. And she's like, we've got very bad WI fi.

[Felix Salmon]

Because we literally.

[Matt Levine]

We tried to go somewhere with bad WI fi. But the thing which struck me about that scene is that Tom, on his honeymoon on a yacht in the middle of nowhere, which doesn't even have WI fi, is wearing an absolutely immaculate seersucker suit.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes. You know something about seersucker, right? Come on. I know, Felix, you have a whole rack of seersucker suits.

[Matt Levine]

You're like, come on. Like, you know, Seersaka suits are what you wear in cities in the summer, not on a yacht. They're not yachting wear, for Christ's sake. Stuff.

[Felix Salmon]

But he's from, like, Ohio, like, middle class. Like Tom, who, like, you know, is this how you do it? You know, like, you know, he's this, like this outrageous Aravist type who's just like, this is, you know, this is the role we play. Right.

[Matt Levine]

Kind of a thing. Exactly. So, yeah. So Siobhan finally allows herself to admit that she really wants to be the CEO. She accepts Logan's office. She's like, is this. She asks him, is this real? Like, 18 times. He's like, this is real. He's like, remember the slant of the light. This is the moment. And that's like the emotional heart of the episode. And it's just an absolutely beautifully shot and directed and acted scene. I love that scene.

[Felix Salmon]

I think that scene really makes it and makes you want more. And I think you kind of get the sense that, like, you don't even believe it fully. So you're just like, he's gonna dangle this. He's gonna do. He's gonna. He's gonna come and mash.

[Matt Levine]

She comes out and the first thing she says to her husband, oh, it's like, Logan Roy, my mind games. Like, even she, on some level, doesn't really believe it.

[Felix Salmon]

Right, Exactly. But that was the thing.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, do you guys believe it? I don't believe it.

[Felix Salmon]

I don't believe it either. If anything, it's like, also, come on, we need more show, right? There has to be. There has to be this possibility of he fucks her over, he fucks over the kids, he does the whole thing, right?

[Matt Levine]

But on some level, if you're Logan Roy, you know that the sensible thing to do is to sell, but you're Logan Roy, so you can't sell. And also, you have an entire season to fill, so you can't sell. He is smart. Like, he is in full possession of all of his faculties at the beginning of this season. There's none of this whole, like, he's a, you know, vegetable kind of like having a stroke stuff. He is very smart. He's in control of everything. And he knows that Siobhan is, of all of his children, the only one who can credibly take over the company.

[Felix Salmon]

And she's believable that way, too, because the way she talks about the business, you're like, wow, she really knows what she's talking about. She, in fact, that in that moment in that scene where he asked her, what would you do? And she lays it all out, I'm like, that's exactly right. You know, it's almost like, you know, if you were in that real business, those are the steps you would take.

[Matt Levine]

And the big difference between what she wants to do and what Roman wants to do is that she wants to get rid of the news operation. She says it's a distraction, it's noise, it's a pain in the ass. And, like, let's just kill news. Go big on, like, theme parks and blockbusters. Kill, like, indie films and everything that isn't massive.

[Felix Salmon]

That's exactly right.

[Matt Levine]

Right. Now, Roman, meanwhile, when he comes in, he's like, we double down on news because that's where all of our political power comes from. And it's an interesting difference between them, too. Like, I feel like Logan ultimately is always going to want to be an important player, and therefore he's gonna want to keep the news operation. This, of course, is a direct.

[Felix Salmon]

That's Murdoch. Murdoch. That is very Murdoch.

[Matt Levine]

Murdoch talks to Trump every day on the phone. And the reason he talks to Trump every day on the phone is not because he's a media billionaire, it's because he owns Fox News, right?

[Felix Salmon]

And so I think that's. That's the One thing, what's interesting is that Murdoch, you know, since we're using him as a primer for a lot of this, if you look closely, he's actually very unsentimental. He's a very, very sort of rigorous business mind. The only time he becomes sentimental is when it comes to news. He can't not own that. That. That's the one thing that, like, he'll pay for. He'll just own it and eat it.

[Matt Levine]

Because he'll pay $5 billion for the wall Street Journal and then write off.

[Felix Salmon]

Half of it the year, year later, or he'll continue to fund the New York post at a $40 million annual loss just because he needs to have it. Right, right.

[Emily Peck]

So it's not clear how far that parallel is going to go like that different. Sell news or keep news. It's not clear to me which side Logan will be on.

[Matt Levine]

But before he gets anywhere near that, he needs to, first of all, have this big fight with. With Sandy.

[Felix Salmon]

Sandy Furness. So I'm curious.

[Matt Levine]

Who's Sandy?

[Felix Salmon]

All right, I think I have an idea. Who. Sandy Furness.

[Matt Levine]

Who's Sandy?

[Felix Salmon]

Sandy Furness is John Malone.

[Matt Levine]

Oh, my God, I was totally gonna say that.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes, he's John Malone. So for listeners who may not know or care, but you should care, John Malone basically invented the cable industry in the United States and is probably the most feared media executive on the planet. Al Gore once referred to him as Darth Vader. Like, that's how. And there is a historical truth around this where there's a moment around early 2000s where he was quietly buying up shares of News Corp, Rupert Murdoch's company, to the point where he actually threatened Murdoch's ownership stake over controlling stake over the business. And Murdoch didn't know this was happening. It was. Till it was too late what Malone was trying to do. And there's a phrase in the first episode that you might have heard, asset swap. Right. That's sort of an interesting.

[Matt Levine]

And the asset swap is exactly what.

[Felix Salmon]

Murdoch and Malone did, where basically Malone said, you know what? I'll sell you your shares back, But I want DirecTV, which Murdoch had a significant stake in. Murdoch was trying to turn, you know, he owned, or once upon a time owned sky in the uk, which is a satellite TV service there. He tried to replicate that idea in the US through DirecTV. Took a little bit longer. Malone spoiled his plans. And they did this great asset swap where basically Malone got control of DirecTV and then Murdoch was able to buy his shares back. And afterwards, like Murdoch Learned his lesson. Like he put in a poison pill in the company charter where you couldn't do that anymore.

[Matt Levine]

No, but there are these, like, grand figures of darkness, like John Malone to a certain extent, maybe Charlie Ergan as well.

[Felix Salmon]

And, yeah, he's. Everyone is sort of like a mixture of characters, but I think the closest for Sandy Furness is John Malone. And then the way that. That first episode ends where, you know, where Kendall comes in to deliver the message, this is one of my. I have a whole list of this. One of my favorite lines. It comes at the very end where he's just delivering this message, but he does it in a way that's sort of properly done. You know, he aims to kill you. He's talking about Logan to Sandy. He will go bankrupt or go to jail before he lets you beat him. He will send men to kill your pets and fuck your wives, and it will never be over. So that's the message. Right, And Sandy Furness goes, let's get on with that process then. Yes, yes, that's how it should work. So well done.

[Matt Levine]

It's a great final line.

[Felix Salmon]

Yeah, it really is. I think I really give the writers credit because I think, especially in this first episode, there's so many great details like financial. The arcana of, like, how financial deals work and boardroom procedures that, like, they. They really nailed it, but they also depart far enough from reality that, like, it's this escape, that it's this fun thing that, like, yes, you would like it to happen that way kind of a thing.

[Ed Lee]

He wanted me to tell you to say. Yeah, obviously our public line will be that we are considering the offer, but it doesn't matter what. What you offer. He'll never recommend this to the board. You're going to bleed cash. He's going to bleed cash. It will never end. And maybe you'll kill him, but if you don't, he aims to kill you. He will go bankrupt or go to jail before he lets you beat him. He will kill you on the business. And if that doesn't work, he will send people around. He will send men to kill your pets and your wives, and it will never be over. So that's the message. Good. Well, let's move ahead with that process, shall we?

[Matt Levine]

So that was episode one.

[Felix Salmon]

Yeah.

[Matt Levine]

Well done. We have nine more to go. This is gonna be a rollercoaster. I'm absolutely sure. Let's just end this with our one favorite line from the whole show. Emily, what was your one favorite line from the whole show?

[Emily Peck]

Oh, this is so Hard. I have so many written down. I'm gonna go with Greg, cousin Greg, who we didn't really talk about very much. But he's in Kendall's apartment. He's looking around, and to Greg's eyes, this is an amazing, amazing apartment. To my eyes as well. And then he compliments it, and Kendall's like, yeah, I couldn't get anything better. It's Fashion Week. All the good penthouses are taken.

[Matt Levine]

Yeah, there are good penthouses in there. Shit. Penthouses. Yeah. Yeah.

[Emily Peck]

He said, oh, oh, yeah. It could be way better. I just don't know how. Which to me, says everything about these rich people. They don't see it. Yeah.

[Matt Levine]

If I need to come up with a line we haven't mentioned, I'll say, when Kendall goes into the meeting with Sandy and then says that his dad isn't coming in because he has.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, I know what you're gonna say.

[Matt Levine]

And this great line. He had to take a call. That's like a 1987 power move, dude.

[Felix Salmon]

Stewie, that was on my list. Dude.

[Emily Peck]

Great line.

[Felix Salmon]

That was on my list, 1997.

[Matt Levine]

And it's so true. And it is true. Like, we. At the end of season one, there's this scene where Logan is, like, keeping the president of the United States on hold. And it's just like, he does have this 1987 power move thing, which he can't quite become part of the 21st century.

[Felix Salmon]

But that's exactly what Trump does, too. You know, he, like, still plays that old power book, but that's exactly. I'm gonna follow that up. My favorite line, if I had to pick one. There's so many. There's so many. But. But it's in that same scene where, again, there's this great human moment where this is the guy, the private equity guy, who is friends with Kendall, who, like, when they first set this up, the guy who's standing in front of the Sandy Furness character. Stewie, dude, I'm a human being here. If you need a human being, I'm here for you. Just what is going on? Right? There's this moment of, like, you could talk to me, dude. And, you know, he's like, well, I looked at the plan, and my dad's plan is better than your planet kind of a thing. And he goes, fuck you. And he goes, fuck you, too, you pulse a maniac piece of fool's gold fucking silver spoon. Fucking asshole. Right? It's like that. Like, okay, like, that's it. There's no.

[Matt Levine]

And personally, I am always going to be a fan of any TV show which uses the word pusillanimous. Oh. Because pusillanimous is one of my favorite.

[Felix Salmon]

Words right there in that first episode.

[Matt Levine]

And it's right there in episode one. So. So thanks for staying with us through the episode one recap. We will be back, same time, same channel, next week with episode two. And thanks very much for listening to Sleep Money Extra.