Slate Money: Succession, S2E5, “Good Cop, Misogynist Cop”

Summary

Slate Money: Succession Recap – Season 2, Episode 5: “Good Cop, Misogynist Cop”

Release Date: September 9, 2019
Host: Felix Salmon (referred to here as Felix Hammond in the transcript, likely as a playful pseudonym)
Panel: Emily Peck, Katie Baker (The Ringer), Jacob Weisberg (Pushkin Industries)

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Slate Money: Succession recap dives into the explosive fifth episode of Succession's second season, "Good Cop, Misogynist Cop." The panel explores the pivotal Roy–Pierce family dinner, the show's gender politics, the machinations of succession, and the rich (and toxic) dynamics both within and between the families. Special emphasis is given to the tension between patriarch Logan Roy and the show's women—Marcia, Shiv, Rhea, Nan Pierce—as well as Succession’s scathing portrayal of inherited power and money in media families.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Episode’s Central Theme: Succession, Gender, and Power

• Shiv’s Anointment Revoked:
  Emily Peck opens with the observation that what started as a promise to Shiv is now very much revoked:

  “This episode makes clear that she is very much not the Anointed.” (02:04)

• The Succession MacGuffin Comes into Play:
  The show finally reveals a tangible reason for naming a successor—to sway the Pierce family for a major acquisition. As Felix notes:

  “If you have a liberal, young female successor, that maybe makes it easier for you to buy Pierce.” (02:29)

2. Logan’s Reluctance and Misogyny

• Logan’s Power Games:
  Katie Baker observes Logan refuses being told what to do, particularly by women, and is “confronted by all these people who are telling him who to pick and what to do” (03:47).

• Misogyny Unmasked:
  Felix and Emily hone in on Logan’s first on-screen confrontation with accusations of misogyny:

  “That was the first time that Logan has been called a misogynist on the show ... now you’re beginning to see ... maybe this is another shitty part of Logan.” (04:59)

  • This dynamic climaxes with Shiv’s “good cop, misogynist cop” line and Logan’s confusion.

3. Women in Power – Marcia, Rhea, Nan Pierce

• Dinner Tensions and the Place of Women:
  Emily points out:

  “Nan Pierce turns to Marcia ... and she says Beirut, right? ... Logan immediately, like, jumped in. Won’t even let her answer the question ... Marcia sort of, like, stepping up and getting a little huffy with him.” (08:13–08:40)

  • This becomes symbolic of Marcia’s increasing isolation from Logan’s inner circle.

• Nan Pierce v. Logan Roy: WASP v. Tycoon:
  Jacob Weisberg:

  “The Pierce family is the mirror of the Roy family. ... They drink French wine instead of California wine ... but they’re just as fucking greedy.” (12:13)

4. Mirrored Dysfunction – The Roys and The Pierces

• Parallel Families, Parallel Flaws:
  Both clans are ultimately driven by greed and internal fractures, despite pretenses to virtue or style.
  • Emily:

    “By the end of the dinner, [Naomi and Kendall] are ... just getting utterly shit faced. And they’re basically the same creature ... stripped away of the Shakespeare quotes, it’s the same thing.” (12:57)

• The “Disastrous” Dinner as Turning Point:
  Felix describes the dinner as “the most gloriously constructed dinner in the history of Succession,” one that, paradoxically, catalyzes the Roy deal with the Pierces (13:30–14:59).

5. The Hypocrisy and Vulnerability of Both Sides

• The Social Construct of Money:
  The panel discusses Nan’s speech about money’s constructed nature and the Pierces’ hypocritical high-mindedness.
• Naomi Pierce’s Surrender:
  The way Naomi, originally a holdout, capitulates to the Roys via substance-induced bonding with Kendall is critiqued as somewhat unconvincing but thematically resonant (“money wins again”) (20:49–21:14).

6. Character Spotlights and Notable Dynamics

• Tom’s Humiliation:
  Tom’s ineptitude and the group’s derision—highlighted by the mock interview at dinner (“the king of edible leaves, his majesty, the spinach”)—is a source of comic relief but also pathos (22:21, 23:22).

• Shiv’s Loss of Power:
  Shiv, once confident, is now drained, undermined both by her father and circumstances (“the way they film her ... she looks so pale ... just so different” – 24:31).

• Logan’s “Love” as Poison:
  Emily and Katie point out that Logan’s affection is a trap that erodes his children’s self-worth:

  “The closer you are to Logan, the more you hate yourself.” (25:06)

• Marcia’s Motivation:
  The group speculates on Marcia’s endgame and growing alienation—a slow-burning subplot that hints at future upheaval (27:14–29:39).

• The Women’s Potential Alliance:
  There’s spirited speculation about a possible female-led coup by Shiv, Rhea, Nan, and Jerry—but Jacob is skeptical, noting their motives aren’t aligned for a collective (“any alliances ... will be merely tactical” – 30:27).

• Roman and Jerry:
  The bizarre, co-dependent Roman–Jerry dynamic, with hints that Jerry may become “the Rasputin” of the group, is also dissected (30:39–31:05).

7. The Succession Parallels to Real-World Families

• Bancrofts v. Sulzbergers:
  The Pierce family is read as a clear play on the Bancroft family (former Wall Street Journal owners), with the episode’s plot strongly echoing Murdoch's buyout (17:13–20:19).

• On-Point WASP Satire:
  Both the writing and performances are praised for nailing the quirks of WASPy elitism and hypocrisy—down to the “roast theater” and performative humility (16:28–18:52).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Gender, Power & Succession

• “He doesn’t want a bunch of women telling him that he has to appoint a woman.” – Felix (05:36)
• “He’s kind of a manipulative sadist ... watching them go at each other like scorpions is appealing to him.” – Jacob Weisberg (07:49)
• “Shiv ... makes a joke and everyone’s like, ‘That’s not funny, Shiv.’ ... You can really see ... the swagger ... has been drained from her.” – Katie Baker (24:31)

The Dinner Scene

• “I got tipsy and I offered him the State Department.” – Connor (33:07) (group favorite)
• “Would you like to take illegal drugs with me?” – Naomi to Kendall (34:21)
• “King of edible leaves, his majesty the spinach.” – Tom (22:21, 23:22)
• “Jeepers fucking creepers. What a shit pinata. That was like the most Roy thing I’ve ever seen ... I got a quart of Roy injected into my eyeballs.” – Tom to Shiv (33:21)
• “You want to know my Shakespeare? Take the fucking money.” – Logan (32:49)

WASP Satire and Money

• “The Pierce family is the mirror of the Roy family ... they’re just as fucking greedy.” – Jacob (12:13)
• “Welcome to our funny little house.” – Nan Pierce (16:28)
• “I continue to wonder: Who are Shiv’s friends? They hate everyone.” – Felix (39:15)

Final Reflection

• “You won. Yeah. Yeah. Money wins. Here's to us.” – Felix (46:23)
• “The celebration ... Logan immediately just puts his drink down, turns away and goes up the stairs. And everyone's just sitting there, you know, hating life ... quite the ending.” – Katie Baker (46:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:18 - Panel introductions and excitement for the episode
• 02:04 - Discussion of Shiv’s succession arc
• 03:47 - The power of women in this episode (Jerry, Rhea, Nan, Naomi)
• 04:31 - Analysis of Logan’s misogyny and refusal to cede power
• 08:13–09:16 - The Roy–Pierce dinner: Marcia’s marginalization
• 12:13 - The Pierces as Roy “mirrors”; wine and cultural signifiers
• 13:30–14:59 - Disastrous dinner, accidental dealmaking
• 17:13–20:19 - Real-life inspirations: Bancroft/Murdoch/WSJ parallels
• 22:21, 23:22 - Tom’s humiliation at dinner
• 24:31 - Shiv’s loss of confidence and familial undermining
• 27:14–29:39 - Marcia’s discontent and speculation on her next moves
• 30:39–31:05 - Roman and Jerry’s dynamic; possibility of her as a “Rasputin”
• 32:49–34:21 - Favorite lines: “Take the fucking money,” “Would you like to take illegal drugs with me?”
• 39:15 - The Roys’ utter contempt for outsiders
• 46:23–46:39 - “You won. Yeah. Yeah. Money wins. Here's to us.” / The hollow victory and family discontent

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Episode Takeaways

• “Good Cop, Misogynist Cop” is a turning point in Succession, revealing the Roy dynasty’s vulnerabilities, especially around gender and inherited power.
• The Roy–Pierce dinner is a comedic and dramatic masterclass, exposing class satire, familial toxicity, and the Pyrrhic nature of victory for both families.
• Money, not virtue, always wins—and even triumph tastes hollow for the Roys.
• Marcia, Jerry, and Rhea are rising wildcards to watch as the inner circle stews in mutual resentment and shifting alliances.

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Selected Favorite Quotes & Lines (with Timestamps)

• “Good cop, misogynist cop.” – Shiv (04:58)
• “The Pierce family is the mirror of the Roy family ... but they’re just as fucking greedy.” – Jacob Weisberg (12:13)
• “The king of edible leaves, his majesty the spinach.” – Tom (22:21)
• “Jeepers fucking creepers. What a shit pinata. That was like the most Roy thing I’ve ever seen.” – Tom (33:21)
• “Take the fucking money.” – Logan (32:49)
• “You won. Yeah. Yeah. Money wins. Here's to us.” – Felix (46:23)
• “Logan brings you in closer and strips you away of all your power so he can ... and your self respect. ... the closer you are to Logan, the more you hate yourself.” – Katie and Felix (25:00–25:06)

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This detailed breakdown captures the sharp observations, humor, and thematic depth that make both Succession and the Slate Money recap engaging listens and must-reads for fans and critics alike.

Transcript

[Jacob Weisberg]

The following podcast contains explicit language.

[Felix Hammond]

Hello, and welcome to the Slate Money Succession recap podcast. Episode 5. This is when it all goes down. This is the episode we've all been waiting for. I'm kind of incredibly excited to talk about this one. I am Felix Hammond of Axios. I am joined by Emily Peck of the Huffington Post. And this episode is so big and amazing and awesome that we have not one, but two special guests. We have calling in from Reno, Nevada. We have Katie Baker.

[Katie Baker]

I, you know, like Naomi, I came off a flight from the west coast for this.

[Felix Hammond]

Katie Baker writes for the Ringer and is based in Nevada or California, actually.

[Katie Baker]

California side.

[Felix Hammond]

California side of the California Nevada border. And notwithstanding the fact that she lives in California, she's come all the way to Brooklyn to be on this show. But we are also joined by Jacob Weisberg of Pushkin Industries, who, notwithstanding the fact that he lives just down the street, is calling in from a remote studio somewhere.

[Jacob Weisberg]

I'm calling you from where we work on West 29th Street.

[Felix Hammond]

So Jacob used to run this shop, Slate, and has now moved on to grander, podcastier things. But what he still believes in more than anything else is the awesomeness of succession. So we're gonna dive right in here. This. I'm gonna say just off the bat that, number one, this was an amazing episode. But number two, the amazingness was not in the Veep esque lines. This isn't one of those episodes where you're like, I just need to quote the whole show because it was so quotable. Like, this was one of those shows where, like, the things that you picked up on were like, oh, my God. Marcia narrowed her eyes.

[Emily Peck]

We should definitely do a deep dive into the Marcia Logan situation because things got really crazy with Marcia dissing his wine cellar at the dinner. But I feel like first, to me, this episode was a lot about, you know, Siobhan and that promise that was made to her in the first episode that she was the Anointed. And this episode makes clear that she is very much not the Anointed.

[Felix Hammond]

So this was the episode where the MacGuffin finally actually served some purpose. So in episode one, and I remember complaining about this when we did the recap of episode one. In episode one, Logan Roy comes out and says, I'm going to need to name a successor. And everyone kind of looks around as they're watching the show and go, why? Like, why do you need. And he's like, something something. Proxy war something. And you're like, okay, but explain why you need a successor. And then that creates the sort of central tension for the whole series, which is who is going to be the successor and whether Siobhan is going to be named as the successor and all of this kind of thing. But in the back of your head, you're like, why does he need to name a successor? And then actually, in this episode, we kind of have a reason why it might be a good idea to have a successor. Because if you have a liberal, young female successor, that maybe makes it easier for you to buy Pierce. And so now having number one decided in episode one that he needs a successor, and then number two now has, like, really good tactical and strategic reasons to name her in public for, you know, various PS Related reasons he doesn't do.

[Emily Peck]

So what's up with that, Katie?

[Felix Hammond]

What's up with that, Katie?

[Katie Baker]

You can kind of see him, you know, he doesn't want to be told how to do it. And what stuck out to me about this episode and sort of this whole season is the presence of women and so many different women. And, you know, in this episode, there is a scene where I think you see just Jerry and Rhea and Nan Pierce, and they're kind of the. You know, and Naomi next to her, and they're kind of the locus of power. And you think about Logan, who has already told his own daughter that even if he doesn't believe it, the market won't necessarily want a woman. So for him to be confronted by all these people who are telling him who to pick and what to do, you can just kind of see him refusing to.

[Felix Hammond]

So there is this. There is this.

[Emily Peck]

I was really struck by that last scene when it's just like, all you have to do is make Siobhan the successor and it all falls into place. And just on his face, he just. He can't do it. And I was thinking, like, is this about Logan trying to hold on to his power, which he obviously wants to do very much, or is this about Logan, like, just not getting what he calls the women thing at the beginning of the episode when Shiv says, okay, we'll play good cop, misogynist cop, and he just looks, like, confused, like, what?

[Katie Baker]

What?

[Emily Peck]

And he's.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, right, that was. No, but that was it. Like, that's the first time that Logan has been called a misogynist on the show. And in a weird way, it's the. And this whole episode is the first time that you get to see that side of him. He's been an equal opportunity asshole to everyone up until now, but now you're beginning to see. Oh, actually, maybe this is, you know, another shitty part of Logan is he actually does have deep misogynist tendencies. And he doesn't want a bunch of women telling him that he has to appoint a woman, Let them take care of the bottom feeders. We work on Nan.

[Katie Baker]

Uh huh.

[Felix Hammond]

Okay.

[Katie Baker]

Good cop. Misogynist cop.

[Felix Hammond]

Sure. You know, the woman thing. Yeah, they like your politics.

[Katie Baker]

Okay. Uh huh. Yeah.

[Felix Hammond]

I know you don't like this pie.

[Katie Baker]

No, no, I, you know, I can see the logic, you know.

[Felix Hammond]

Good, good.

[Katie Baker]

Anyway, my baby.

[Felix Hammond]

Soon.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Well, I do think there's this perception gap between the children and Logan about the succession, in that they think it's fundamentally about which of them and he thinks it's about whether and when. And basically he doesn't want to let go. And he realizes as soon as he names any successor, he is diminished and on his way out and will be losing his power. So he just doesn't want to pick a successor. But also he has fundamental contempt for. For all of them in different ways, for different reasons, including strong streak of misogyny towards Shiv. But, you know, his sons are basket cases, and he just doesn't want to pick a successor because he thinks he's better at the job than any of them will ever be and do it when he has to.

[Felix Hammond]

True. Right. I mean, he is better at the job than any of them.

[Katie Baker]

And he doesn't laugh like a hyena.

[Felix Hammond]

So I go back then, Jacob, to the question I had in episode one, which is, given all that, why did he feel the need to tell Siobhan that she was his Chosen One in the first place?

[Katie Baker]

How much of that do you think was him trying to get her off of the campaign? That's what I've kind of always wondered, like what percentage of it was.

[Felix Hammond]

But why did he care that she was on the campaign?

[Katie Baker]

I mean, they had to make a whole deal at the end of last season to, you know, between him and Gil. You know, it just seems like it's kind of one less problem for him if his daughter's not tied up there.

[Emily Peck]

It's a power move for him. He wants her on his side. He doesn't want her out there negotiating against him. Essentially, like Katie was saying, blackmailing him at the end of last season.

[Felix Hammond]

So the entire, like, in his mind, the whole succession, McGuffin was just basically a way of bringing Shiv back in where he could control her.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah.

[Felix Hammond]

Okay.

[Jacob Weisberg]

He's kind of a manipulative sadist, right? I mean, the idea of pitting the three children against each other and giving them all false expectations and then watching them go at each other like scorpions is appealing to him.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah, he likes that. But can we talk a little, snitch more about the misogyny? Because, again, I have to come back to Marcia at the dinner. So the Pierces and the Roys sit down to this. This dinner.

[Felix Hammond]

I mean, what a dinner.

[Emily Peck]

What a dinner. And Nan Pierce turns to Marsha and starts to. She asks, like, something innocuous, like, where are you from? Or something, and she says, beirut. Right.

[Felix Hammond]

So Nan turns to Marcia and says, so I hear you grew up in Beirut.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah.

[Felix Hammond]

And then Logan immediately, like, jumped in.

[Emily Peck]

Won't even let her answer the question. And just Nan's face. She's a brilliant actress. I think she comes from Broadway. Just brilliant.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Cherry Jones.

[Emily Peck]

Cherry Jones. And she also played the president in one season of 24, which is where I know her from. You know, she just has this look on her face of just, like, total understanding, watching Logan answer for his wife. And then Marcia sort of, like, stepping up and getting a little huffy with him, you know, right? Where he says, oh, she told me her life, you know, in one night. And Marsha's like, if you gave me a whole year, I couldn't tell you my life story. And it just. It becomes this really interesting window into their relationship. And you see Marcia throughout the episode getting increasingly agitated with Logan and being looped out of everything. Right.

[Felix Hammond]

It's super interesting. She. She, like, locks the door behind the rest of the family and then, like, gives him one barrel and storms off into the bathroom. And. And this is the first indication that there's any tension between them. Like, she's always been super supportive, and we've always assumed that she's had all manner of ulterior motives, but now, for some reason, things are coming out in a kind of bad way. I mean, the big arc of this episode, we should zoom out a little bit, is that Logan has this idea that the family is going to alight turn Haven and, like, charm the Pierces into selling their company to. And like all the families to enter upon a charm offensive. Like, Logan is surely bright enough to realize that this particular group of misfits would never charm anyone into anything. But he seem. He seems to think that's possible. And he gets angry when the kids turn out not to be very charming, which everyone knew that they wouldn't be. But the one person who kind of knows what she's doing is Marcia. Right? Marcia is the. Is like the old World connection. And she kind of, on some level, speaks the PS language in the way that none of the Logans do.

[Jacob Weisberg]

And Nan loves that she's not a trophy wife. She remarks at some point, this isn't the typical second wife that a man in your position chooses.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah, it was interesting. I thought that was interesting that the. Yeah, I think it was tactical by Nan, but that the credit there is accruing to Logan, you know, after. After he gets kind of upbraided by. By her and snaps at her at the dinner table. I mean, that was a moment where you just can feel being in that room and that. That tension after he.

[Felix Hammond]

But I think that was part of, like, why the whole misogyny thing came as a little bit of a surprise. Just because, you know, the casting of Marcia and the age appropriate second wife and everything kind of implies that maybe he's slightly woker than that and he didn't choose a trophy wife. And now we discover that, you know, she's someone who actually prefers, you know, French wine. Not that she would ever tell him. Another glass for both of you? Well, no, we tend to kind of keep it to.

[Katie Baker]

Yes, thank you.

[Felix Hammond]

Excuse me.

[Katie Baker]

His cellar is all new world, and it doesn't suit me.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Why didn't you say it suits you?

[Katie Baker]

So it can suit me. See, I'm not a difficult person.

[Felix Hammond]

So, Jacob, I need to ask you because, you know, you're my wine geekiest of guests. What do you think the wine that Nan Pierce was serving was? What do you think was that wine that Marcia wanted a second helping of?

[Jacob Weisberg]

Well, Logan clearly pours Australian wine in his cellar.

[Felix Hammond]

No, I think. No, I think it's California. I think Logan pours poor Screaming Eagle.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Yeah, no, I think that was. I think that was a opus wine. I think we got a little glimpse of the shape of the bottle, and it looked like a Burgundy to me. And I thought of you at that moment, and I was totally on her side. But also, Felix, I think this is the key to the episode in a funny way, because the Pierce family is the mirror of the Roy family. They have different values, they have a different style. They're much classier. They're old WASPs. They drink French wine instead of California wine. They value, you know, PhDs instead of trophy apartments. But they're just as fucking greedy.

[Emily Peck]

Yep.

[Katie Baker]

And as weird.

[Emily Peck]

That's the ultimate lesson. Just take the fucking money.

[Felix Hammond]

And they're also, like, unspeakable. I mean, they're dreadful people.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, I thought the interaction between Naomi and Kendall really kind of showed What Jacob is talking about a little bit like at the end of the day, these. At first it seems like Naomi's kind of his better. You know, she's working in a rehab and she, she's also getting her treatment there and she seems to really have her shit together. But then, you know, by the end of the dinner, she is asking him to do drugs together and they're sitting in that helicopter drinking a bottle of vodka and just getting utterly shit faced. And they're basically the same creature, you know, stripped away of the Shakespeare quotes, it's the same thing.

[Felix Hammond]

So, I mean, the way I see this episode being constructed is that you have this like, ludicrous plan by Logan to charm the Pierces. It all falls spectacularly, goes spectacularly pear shaped in this dinner, which is, you know, the most gloriously constructed dinner in the history of succession. I think it was really well done. So you get this horrible dinner, but then somehow, improbably, that disaster turns into success. It turns out that the very disaster of the dinner means that Naomi and Kendall can wind up like getting shit faced together. It means that Siobhan winds up blurting out the fact that she's going to be the next CEO, which is kind of the one thing that maybe tips it over in, you know, for Nan to say, well, if Siobhan can take over, then I might be okay with this. You know, and then once, once Nan like mentally is like, I can be okay with this if Siobhan's gonna be the successor. And then she's kind of mentally made that decision. And then, you know, Naomi comes on board thanks to her, you know, torrid, whatever it is that she did with Kendall. And then once you've made the decision, you can't kind of go back on it because you've basically mentally pocketed that $25 billion. And so even when you don't really come to an agreement in the room by the time they leave on their helicopters, you're like, well, I can't give up this $25 billion that I've mentally accepted. And so they wind up taking it.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Well and they squeeze them for, for one last billion. But also, you know, what saves the deal is off script and ignoring Logan. It's shiv, you know, trying this sort of dinner coup where she says I'm the successor and announces it. But then it's the scene in the helicopter when Kendall, who Logan has explicitly instructed stay clean, convinces Naomi, who is the one who has come in from California to block the deal, that take the money and Run. Right. So it's those two things that caused the deal to happen, which otherwise wouldn't have.

[Felix Hammond]

So can we talk about the hypocrisy of the Pierces? Because that's the other sort of running theme is, you know, that wonderful speech that Nan gives about how money is a social construct, but virtue and integrity actually exists. And that whole thing where, like, is it Naomi who starts quoting Richard II in order to show how, like, high minded they all are? Well, and then is that a little bit thin? Is that just a little bit too easy on the part of the succession writers here? That you just have these, you know, this, this veneer of WASPy respectability, but really they're all just greedy folks.

[Katie Baker]

I mean, I think it's very accurate. What really stuck out to me about this episode is, you know, as we talked about, you kind of have these bizarro versions of each other. Them walking toward each other from the helicopter was like the Seinfeld.

[Felix Hammond]

Such a great, such a great show.

[Katie Baker]

I mean, it's so funny and Papa Smurf holding hands, but. But I just thought the details were so. It just really showed the different kinds of money and the, you know, you have Nan who's just. I have a friend whose mom is Nan Pierce, you know, and she would say, I don't want to interrupt your tipple. Welcome to our funny little house. Those little details I thought were, like, so on point. And I was looking up who wrote this episode, and it's Will Tracy, who used to work for the Onion and for John Oliver. And so, you know, he's obviously someone with a good eye for that kind of detail.

[Felix Hammond]

Jacob, you're the most, you know, what's the word? Well connected among us here. Was this realistic in terms of its depiction of rich American wasp?

[Jacob Weisberg]

No. In particular, I don't think the dinner was realistic. But interestingly, we've had two episodes out of five so far built around dinners elaborately at a table. So, you know, we have to look at those in relation to each other. But I've actually had the feeling with both of them that they were just fundamentally implausible. You know, that at this dinner where these people have never met, that, you know, they'd be talking about not having sex in their relationship with Roman and, you know, just the things that came out of their mouths at the various points in the dinner as well as the culcene just seemed a little pushed beyond reality to be able to.

[Emily Peck]

I have one kind of logistical, trivial concern, which is when Nan brings out the roast and she just puts it on the table and curses. Yeah. And they all applaud the roast. How do they eat the roast? First of all, was that roast big enough for all those people? I don't think so. Second of all, who's cutting the roast and how is it getting passed around and why? I do not move in WASPy elite circles, but, like, why are they putting the roasting pan on the table? That just seems all wrong.

[Felix Hammond]

So it felt wrong, but it felt to me like it was WASP theater. That there's something. There's something about, like, Logan would never pretend to do his own cooking, right? Never. But Nan actually wants to pretend to.

[Katie Baker]

Do her own cooking and wants to try to tell her housekeeper to treat her drink. Never treat yourself.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Remember?

[Katie Baker]

Yeah.

[Jacob Weisberg]

She asked the chef to have. Or the housekeeper to have a drink with him. So part of their pretense is that the servants aren't servants. They're really members of the family.

[Emily Peck]

But you saw the woman when she did the roast handoff, kind of have this look on her face like, what a load of bullshit this is. And I made this roast, and she's getting all the praise for it. I felt that.

[Katie Baker]

There's one thing I want to bring up. You know, I'm sure we'll get to kind of who. Who these families are, so.

[Felix Hammond]

Yeah, well, let's do that. Now. Who are these families?

[Katie Baker]

Let me just put it this way. I looked up the Bancroft Wikipedia page, and it includes this quote. The family members private pastimes consist mainly of show horse breeding, sailing, and farming. However, the family has also produced a speedboat champion and an airline pilot. I love the however, by the way. So, you know, as absurd as a lot of these details are, there's some kind of weird people out there.

[Felix Hammond]

So, Jacob, what do you think? Bancrofts or Salzburgers?

[Jacob Weisberg]

Oh, God, Bancrofts. I mean, there's no. They're real WASPs, not semi Jews. But also, you know, this story is exactly what happened with Murdoch in the Journal. At least as I remember it, the Bancroft family was really divided about whether to sell and resisted and resisted and then agreed on the understanding that they had, quote, ironclad protections for the journalism, you know, which were worth the Kleenex they were printed on when Murdoch got control and immediately fired the editor. But I think they're. I mean, you know, none of this is. Is modeled 100%, but the scenario is Murdoch buying the Journal.

[Felix Hammond]

The Bancrofts put up at least a semblance of a fight. I mean, the Pierces, we didn't really even the Only PS who seemed to be opposed for about a millisecond was Naomi. And then all she needs is a glug of vodka and a couple of lines of coke, and even she gets persuaded.

[Emily Peck]

That seems highly unbelievable. Right? I mean, his pitch was just like, you can have a lot of money and start over. That just didn't seem. What is she doing with the company now that's so taxing on her? It's not like she has the mirror of his experience.

[Katie Baker]

She was stopping in the tabloids if she gotten another, you know, femur breaking, car crash.

[Emily Peck]

Right.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah.

[Emily Peck]

I think I was not convinced by his pitch at all.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah. I think what bothered me the most was just. And I think I get the reason for it. And I think the reason is just to show that kind of money wins and Logan wins again. But the whiplash of being on the helicopter and him slamming the window in frustration, and then 10 seconds later.

[Felix Hammond]

No, I thought he slammed the window in victory because he just got an email.

[Katie Baker]

No, he.

[Felix Hammond]

No.

[Katie Baker]

Jerry shook her head. No, he hadn't gotten it yet.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh.

[Katie Baker]

And he was so mad. And then they land, and then maybe they get signal when they land or something. But I just thought it was a little too off screen, this huge change, you know, a 180 change in the decision. But I guess that's what happens when you're willing to walk away from the deal.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, that was his plan. That's what he.

[Felix Hammond]

Well, he gave them. Literally. I mean, he gave them almost everything they wanted. The only thing he didn't give them was, like, the shiv thing was his daughter.

[Emily Peck]

He gave away Tom. It was like, yeah, that's not a problem. Poor Tom. Let's talk about Tom for a second.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, my God. Let's talk about Tom. Because that is one of my favorite lines is, like, when all. All of the focus comes to Tom, and they're like, wait, Tom, are you going to be in charge of all of our news organizations? You. Are you gonna be the guy in whom, like, the precious editorial independence of Pierce is entrusted? And his immortal line, really settling this question once and for all, is the king of edible leaves, his majesty, the spinach.

[Katie Baker]

I feel like that probably really appealed to the Pierces. They probably, like, were really in on. You know what I mean? Virtue, integrity, these things actually exist.

[Felix Hammond]

Well, just. Well, because just this morning, I went to the store and I bought a pound of ham, and I paid for it by, you know, telling them I was really worried about the environment.

[Katie Baker]

Don't mind Tom.

[Emily Peck]

He finds other people's integrity a personal.

[Katie Baker]

Affront for some reason.

[Felix Hammond]

Well, yes, that's. Thank you. I'm a piece of dirt. Oh, yeah, I'll take it. But to Tom. Tom, if there was an acquisition, then.

[Katie Baker]

As head of news, you would be the guy in charge of our crown jewels, right?

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, well, we'd have to see about that.

[Katie Baker]

Ooh, hear that, Tom? Sounds dicey. Got a pitch.

[Felix Hammond]

Tom, everything rests on what you're about to say. Oh, lay off.

[Katie Baker]

Oh, wait a minute, though. I didn't hear. So would he stay on as the head of news?

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, King of edible leaves. His majesty the spinach.

[Emily Peck]

I feel like that's the one thing these families agreed on, was just like, tom is awful and his own wife is right there with him. They go out and have that. The conversation ostensibly about the dog. They're really just freaking out together. And he is that when he says to her, like, you could be nicer to me. And she's like, why? You say dumb things. And his face just looks, like, defeated. Just so sad. Like, his wife is not on his side. No one is on Tom's side, but he is very much on ship's side. He, like, builds her back up. He says. He says to her, you are at the table. And I feel like he gives her the confidence to then go in and say she's the next, you know, CEO and kind of, like, screws herself, but enables the deal.

[Felix Hammond]

I'm not.

[Jacob Weisberg]

He's been. He's been told that his role there is to have the shit beat out of him. Take it. And then he's attacked by everyone for being weak.

[Emily Peck]

Yes.

[Felix Hammond]

I mean, to your point, Jacob, about the big dinner scenes, he got, like, 1% of the shit beat out of him in this dinner. Then he didn't last dinner.

[Emily Peck]

That's true.

[Katie Baker]

The one where he then. You mean the one where he's kind of stood back up to Shiv.

[Emily Peck]

Yes.

[Katie Baker]

Which sort of carried over into this episode in the way that Shiv is starting to get called out on a lot of things. Like, she makes a joke and everyone's like, that's not funny, Shiv. You know, whereas last season, she was kind of had the swagger, and you can really see that it's been drained from her. Like, even I thought her. The way they film her with her face, she looks so pale and just so different from, you know, when she's striding around, even in episode one.

[Felix Hammond]

So, I mean, this is the whole. There was a big piece in.

[Emily Peck]

Logan did that to her. That's what Logan did.

[Felix Hammond]

To her.

[Emily Peck]

And that's what Logan did to some extent, to Kendall. Also. He brings you in closer and strips you away of all your power so he can.

[Felix Hammond]

And your self respect. Because they all, like, basically, the closer you are to Logan, the more you hate yourself.

[Katie Baker]

Yes, it really is. It's funny because there's a lot of lines in the show where they talk about Logan in, like, a sexual way. They'll be like, dad really bent over for this or something. And you're like, whoa. But there is this weird relationship with him and his kids. Like, I felt it with Shiv in episode one, where it felt like someone who is, you know, in a relationship kind of has the upper hand and then shows the vulnerability, and then it all changes. And he really, like, treats it almost like that. It's like people trying to break up and he won't let them break up. And he brings them closer.

[Jacob Weisberg]

They're all desperate to please him. I mean, you know, Shiv says in that scene where she steps out with Tom, I'm not even in favor of this, and I'm desperate to get it. And Kendall had just said in the previous episode, basically, the only reason I'm not killing myself is because I'm useful to my dad. That's the only thing that gives my life meaning right now. Right. So the children are still absolutely desperate to please him, even as they get sort of get what he's doing. The funny thing about Tom is that he's so clueless. He can't even perceive between Logan's real bullying, as in the boar in the floor scene, and his pretend bullying at this dinner, he experiences it all the same way.

[Emily Peck]

Speaking of, there was this sort of, like, sad little scene at the top of the episode where Logan actually pays attention to Roman and says he's proud of him for going to management training. And you can see Roman's so happy that his dad's paying attention and is proud of him. Then he immediately undercuts it and is like, don't talk about that, though. Cause it's like you're in kindergarten. So shh. He's like, thanks, dad. There's a lot of just scenes where it's like, this could be the dad. This could be the great dad. Like, Logan gives a toast when they all get to, you know, the house in the Hamptons, and he gives this really lovely toast. And Connor, he, like, makes this aside and he's like, I like this dad. Why couldn't this dad be dad? You know, like, everyone just wants. Yeah, everyone just wants Logan to be a nice. Can't he just be a nice dad? You know, that's really what it's all about.

[Felix Hammond]

So I do need to come back because as regular listeners of the Slate Money Succession podcast will know, I am obsessed with Marcia. I do want to just spend a minute talking about Marcia. What do we think? We have the bit where she. Where Logan, at the very beginning, says that he and Rhea are gonna be a team, and Shiv says out loud, like, wait, why? You know, I thought she was the CEO of the rival company, but it's Marcia who. We get the cut away. And she's, like, narrowing her eyes. Like, Marcia is clearly upset about something here, and there's tensions between them, and she'd much rather, kind of. She seems to be happier in the PS House drinking the Romanee Conte than in the Logan house drinking the Screaming Eagle. I don't know, like, what's. What do we think is going on there?

[Emily Peck]

I mean, what is Marcia's endgame? I thought she is upset lately because she feels like she doesn't have. She's not Logan's. She's just like another child. She's not Logan's number one. You know, he doesn't confide in her. He snaps at her at the dinner because she says, like, as an aside, like, is that true about, you know, Shiv? And he kind of tells her to shut up or whatever. He says, like, she wants to be his confidant, and he has shut her out, and that's the source of her anger. Maybe that's a generous view. Maybe she has some other thing going on. I don't know. What do you think, Jacob?

[Jacob Weisberg]

Well, I think the show is about power, and her power is exercised through Logan. So the succession is threatening to her as well. Right. And I think she maybe perceives in Rhea someone who actually would be capable of running the company, who's a woman who Logan likes and actually respects. So if you play out the scenario, you know what happens? They throw Tom out. Rhea is in charge of the news business and then maybe runs the whole company. I mean, she's sort of the only person around the table who actually could do that job.

[Emily Peck]

Okay.

[Jacob Weisberg]

I don't know. I'm projecting. I think there may be some little seeds planted in this, but I agree that we're gonna see. The Marcia plot is surely going to develop. Right. She's just kind of bubbling, you know, and in this episode, we saw her kind of. With this kind of explosive moment, so we see that there's something going on there. But we don't quite. It hasn't been quite explained what she wants to happen or what she's trying to prevent or what her stakes are. Exactly.

[Emily Peck]

So do you think there's a scenario in which, like, Marsha teams up with siblings to do something, Take power from Logan? Is anyone ever take power from Logan.

[Felix Hammond]

And Shiv all coming together in some kind of, like, matriarchal overthrow?

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. Is there any room for a matriarchal overthrow or at least a power grab from Logan? I mean, Kendall made his weak attempts last season, obviously, and now is a destroyed human being who poops in the bed, but is there anyone else who could do a Kendall and a bet and do it right?

[Felix Hammond]

Right. I think. I think if you get, like, a. If you get Shiv and Raya and Nan and Jerry and all of the actually competent women together, maybe. Maybe they. In. If they combine their forces and. And fight Thanos, they can win.

[Katie Baker]

So one thing.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Except they don't have the goal of advancing women. They. They're all out for themselves. Right. So any alliances they make will be merely tactical as ways of winning themselves individually.

[Katie Baker]

One thing I was trying to think about is how, you know, we've kind of seen the Kendall arc. We're in the middle of the Shiv arc. So to me, there's gonna be kind of a more concentrated Roman at some point. Then I start to wonder to what extent is Jerry gonna maybe become, you know, the Rasputin?

[Emily Peck]

The.

[Katie Baker]

You know, she already.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, my God. So basically, Roman is gonna become Jerry's puppet.

[Katie Baker]

I hope so.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, that's what's happening right now.

[Katie Baker]

Right?

[Felix Hammond]

I mean, she really is dangling him on the end of her strings, and he's doing whatever she says, and, oh, my God. Jerry's control over Roman is something to behold.

[Katie Baker]

And at the same time, she's kind of getting. There's been a few points this season, including last night, where she's getting kind of like Logan's giving her a hard time at the table. He says, well, technically, you know, Jerry's on the document as a placeholder, but we all know she couldn't do the job or she'd be.

[Felix Hammond]

She'd be the first to say that she couldn't do the job, and she's like, maybe the second.

[Katie Baker]

You know, she's so good, but. And there was another moment, I think, in maybe episode one when he was giving his big succession speech. And so, you know, it's almost like they're planting the seeds of her to start feeling a little bit of Wanting to push back. I mean, I don't know, I'm just. I'm just spitballing here, but I don't.

[Emily Peck]

Think any of the people that surround Logan have it in them to push back. I think they're all. In order to stay with someone like that, you have to let go of all your. Your self esteem, all your stuff.

[Felix Hammond]

Conceivably rare.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah. I love when he says, why wasn't I told him this? And she said, first of all, not my fucking joke. That was one of my favorite lines.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah, that was good.

[Felix Hammond]

Okay, so let's do some favorite lines. Katie Baker, what was your favorite line this episode?

[Katie Baker]

Mine is Queen Nan, when she says, I'm afraid we've gone so Unitarian out here that we've given up on poor Jesus and started worshiping Shake. And one thing I loved about the scene, you know, at the end when Logan says, you want to know my Shakespeare? Is. What's funny is Brian Cox is like a noted Shakespearean actor. So I kind of was imagining this. He was about to like, blow them.

[Felix Hammond]

Away with some Coriolanus.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah. And instead it was the exact opposite.

[Felix Hammond]

Would you like to hear my favorite passage from Shakespeare? Take the fucking money. I think my favorite line is, I got tipsy and I offered him the State Department.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Oh, you stole mine, Felix.

[Felix Hammond]

But it was. I got in there before you and.

[Jacob Weisberg]

I offered him the State Department.

[Emily Peck]

Connor was kind of adorable. Like this was the first episode where I was like, all right, Connor, I see what you're doing.

[Katie Baker]

You've got me ready.

[Emily Peck]

I don't mind you.

[Felix Hammond]

What's he doing?

[Emily Peck]

Well, he was. He got tipsy. I just like that he said that particular line was rather charming. And then when he just said that aside about his father, I don't know, he was all of a sudden a little more human than usual to me. But my favorite line was said by Tom to Shiv after that crazy dinner. He said, jeepers fucking creepers. What a shit pinata. That was like the most Roy thing I've ever seen. It was like I got a quart of Roy injected into my eyeballs. It was the best little dialogue ever. And then she just is like, yeah, I guess. And then she says, is there booze? And he says, are you kidding? It's just Emily Dickinson and low thread count sheets. I just love that whole scene so much.

[Katie Baker]

We've all slept in one of those low thread count twin beds at someone's funny little house.

[Felix Hammond]

Funny little house. Funny little house with the brake bumper.

[Katie Baker]

Oh, yeah.

[Felix Hammond]

Recipe from Teddy Roosevelt's valet. So, apologies for stealing your line, Jacob, but do you have a backup?

[Jacob Weisberg]

Here's a backup. Well, I guess it would have been when Naomi said, would you like to take illegal drugs with me?

[Felix Hammond]

They both.

[Jacob Weisberg]

It's on both their minds. And he says, are you gonna say it? And that's her line. And that's sort of the hinge moment in the episode, right. When suddenly you realize that they're completely on the same wavelength.

[Felix Hammond]

There's a couple of hinges, right. Because when they get off the helicopters, there's this, like, very long, extended hug between Naomi and her ex girlfriend. And you're like, oh, we can see who she's gonna hook up with. And then she. You know, that was all, like, misdirection.

[Emily Peck]

Do they hook up? Did Kendall and.

[Felix Hammond]

Well, there was definitely a snog.

[Katie Baker]

Right.

[Emily Peck]

But I didn't understand why he. We don't have to talk about it if you don't want to, but I don't understand why he was naked in the bed. Like, that was just. He just got so.

[Felix Hammond]

I think that was just. They really wanted to, you know, push that whole, like, shitting the bed metaphor and make it as literal as they possibly could.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah. The question is, like, did she leave the bed or did she stumble back to the bed? I think it was probably the latter. Or they probably would have, like, made it more clear that she had, like, been there for.

[Felix Hammond]

Yeah, No, I don't think. I think it ended with the snog.

[Emily Peck]

Okay. Yeah. And I guess it's just continuing Succession's streak of not having anyone ever have sex.

[Felix Hammond]

Correct. No one ever has sex on this show.

[Katie Baker]

I spoke with one of the writers about this a little bit. She was saying that that's, like, a very deliberate choice. And, you know, as she put it, they don't. This is Lucy Prebble, one of the writers. They don't want to show just, like, tits and. Which is, you know, on hbo, that's. There are many other shows that are. Have an opposite ethos, but she said that, you know, when it advances the story. So something like the Roman Jerry is really important to them because they think it. You know, it's very true as to how his sort of psychosexual demeanor might be, you know, as the guy he is.

[Emily Peck]

Wait, and now that you talk about nudity, I think I've only seen. I've seen Kendall naked. I don't think I've seen any women naked on this show. It's men who get naked.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, like, that must be deliberate.

[Felix Hammond]

Too.

[Katie Baker]

The latest sex scene we have is, like, two people in their jammies, right?

[Emily Peck]

I love Jerry's jammies.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, Jerry's pajamas are awesome. Yeah, it's just. It's all part of the general Jerry fan club.

[Emily Peck]

Yes. I'm here for it.

[Felix Hammond]

I'm waiting for the, you know, the mean and ruthless side of Jerry to come out, because right now, she's. And you can't be too sympathetic on this show without someone coming out and making you less sympathetic.

[Katie Baker]

Speaking of which, great moment where Roman just comes out and says, what happened at the buffet line? And everyone. I don't. No one even reacts. Cause it's something he would say.

[Emily Peck]

Well, that harkens back to. He's reading the Latin on the wall. Help me out.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, my God. And he's like, truth in my vagina.

[Emily Peck]

Vagina trumpets.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah.

[Emily Peck]

But it was like, truth is everything.

[Felix Hammond]

And then there's that, like, humorless Pierce who, like, you know, actually is him.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, the Pierces. Who do we like better, the Pierces or the Roys?

[Felix Hammond]

That's a good question.

[Katie Baker]

I would hang with Nan and Naomi for, you know, a real late night. I don't know about any of the men of the Pierce family.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, yeah, the Pierce men would, like. Terrible. Yeah, they were terrible. Jacob Pierce's or Rose, if you had to choose.

[Jacob Weisberg]

I think I'm having dinner with the Roys. It's way more fun, you know, the appearances. You've got to apologize for making him joke about the dude's second PhD. It was a pretty good joke, too.

[Emily Peck]

That's a good joke.

[Felix Hammond]

I'm actually getting my second PhD right now in Africana studies from Brown. Wow, so you'll be a double doctor. Well, the second PhD is much harder.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Yeah. Five years.

[Katie Baker]

Pierce is an absolute gauntlet. Oh, I'm sure. But just think, you know, once you're done, you won't have to waste the 12 seconds it takes to look up something on Wikipedia. I would be very intrigued to crack the case that is Marnie Pierce. And really, see, we need to get Kendall to see if we can get her, you know, off her rocker. She's kind of the.

[Felix Hammond]

Wait, which one is mine?

[Katie Baker]

She's like the school marmish one who's, like, looking up Electric Circus on her phone.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, my God. When Roman is desperately trying to show that he's read a book.

[Emily Peck]

Yes.

[Katie Baker]

That reminded me of the scene in Almost Famous where they're like, it's a think piece. Like, he's like, the circus is a metaphor for the anxiety of modern Life.

[Felix Hammond]

And she's like, can I find it on Amazon? He's like, no, no, this is a book which was just written for me.

[Katie Baker]

But, yeah, I mean, I did kind of think I'd much rather hang out, you know, in general, the Roy family, even though they're terrible, they'd probably be more fun in a weird way. I don't know. Is Shiv fun?

[Emily Peck]

No, they're all terrifying. And I would never sit down at a table with them because I would come away feeling just crushed because they are devastatingly critical of everyone they come in contact with.

[Katie Baker]

I continue to just wonder, like, who.

[Felix Hammond]

Are Shiv friends also? They hate you.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah, exactly. They hate everyone.

[Felix Hammond]

They hate everyone. I mean, what's that wonderful line at the very beginning of the episode where Roman comes in from his management training? He's like, I no longer speak 1%. And you're like, yeah. Because the thing that we have in common and that keeps us together is our utter contempt for anyone who's not us.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah. Once again there, you know, kind of. As in the first episode, you saw the scene of, like, food being prepared by the help. And, you know, it's not a show that's gonna suddenly have a bottle episode from inside the mind of the help. You know, it's almost. Or maybe it will, but it almost seems purposely designed to show that they're just in their bubble, as Marcia called it, in their playground, and they think it's the world, and they don't. The show doesn't show like anyone else point of view unless it's working for the Roys.

[Felix Hammond]

So I have a question, Jacob, about Logan Roy's ideology, that it's very clear what the tension is on the part of the Pierce family that on the one hand, we want $25 billion. On the other hand, you know, we have this public trust. And there's definitely this kind of. Of thread of K. Graham running through Nan Pierce. And, you know, we are trying to uphold truth and democracy. And there's a little part of me which believes that we caused the fall of the Berlin Wall and all of this kind of thing. Right. And they want to preserve that. And it's part of. It's part of their self mythos. It's part of what they believe about themselves is that they, you know, they're very important parts of democracy. Is that something that Logan naturally would destroy because he kind of cares about just making. About dumbing down the news and making it as stupid as possible, or does he really not care about that? And he'd Be perfectly happy to have that as part of his empire.

[Jacob Weisberg]

It's not his agenda at the moment. Right? Because right now he's just trying to save his company and he just has to eat this smaller fish to save himself, to feed himself. But he knows down the road he's happy to say whatever because it won't mean a thing. And, yeah, probably his agenda at the moment is not politics. But at some point he'll want to throw aside their values in pursuit of his vision of what news organizations should do, which is the ticker on Fox News.

[Katie Baker]

Murdoch.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, he did not keep his promises a lot with the Wall Street Journal, but today the Wall Street Journal on the news side is still respectable product.

[Felix Hammond]

And on the opinion side, it was never respectable.

[Emily Peck]

Right. It was never respectable. That wasn't an issue at all. And I mean, he's tinkered a lot with the paper. He made the A head shorter. You know, he made the news stories shorter. He did a lot of stuff, no doubt. But, like, at the end of the day, they did actually maintain their editorial.

[Felix Hammond]

Jacob, this is a question which you might be able to answer is the op ed page of the Wall Street Journal was complete wingnut, even under the Bancrofts, who owned it and controlled it. Like, was that because the Bancrofts at some level were actually like wingnut Republicans?

[Jacob Weisberg]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think they were responsible for that editorial page. That wasn't Murdoch. But Murdoch did not only did he push aside the controls, he agreed to and fire the editor, who was Marcus Broccoli, he put in these series of News Corp loyalists, Robert Thompson and then Gerald Baker. And I do think, I mean, I think in one sense the journalism has held up very well. On the other hand, I don't think it's trusted, nor do I trust it under Murdoch ownership the way, you know, I think it was. Had genuine independence before he bought it.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah.

[Felix Hammond]

So Rupert Murdoch owns the sun in the uk, which is the biggest selling newspaper in the uk. And in the middle of all of this Brexit chaos, which we don't need to go into, the front page of the sun was a picture of Jeremy Corbyn, who's the leader of the opposition, with the headline, is this the most dangerous chicken in Britain? And everyone's sort of like, oh, that's very Murdoch. And he's like, being very political. And what no one realized was that there's this Scottish version of the sun which only comes out in Scotland. And the front page of the Scottish sun was Floppy Johnson can't Get an election. And I think what that just goes to prove, certainly for Murdoch, but I think also for Logan, is that, yeah, you know, I'm not ideological. You know, I am going to give my readers what they want, you know, even if it's the same paper in two different nations. And I feel like, on some level, Logan's happy to give the Pierces their editorial independence because he doesn't actually care about it that much.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Yeah, I have one. One more footnote for you, Felix. The book Roman was referring to, I think is a real book that he really read. And I think it's Jennifer Egan's the Invisible Circus, which I read a long time ago. But I vaguely remember what he said about it was accurate in that it's about a family and it takes place in two different time periods.

[Felix Hammond]

Oh, wow.

[Jacob Weisberg]

And it's like a thing about two sisters, and the one's going back to figure out why the other one committed suicide. And I think it's a little bit of probably a joke of the screenwriters, but I think he wasn't bullshitting. He just had it a little wrong.

[Katie Baker]

Succession screenwriters joined me in the Jennifer Egan hive. I love it.

[Felix Hammond]

That is awesome. Okay, so. So, yeah. Is there anywhere for this season to go? I mean, this is also what happened in season one, right? Is that you get this big question which then gets resolved in episode four, episode five, and you're like, what happens now? And the big question was, is he gonna be able to buy Pierce the great white whale? And now he seems to have bought Pierce. And cousin Greg is turning up with champagne.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, my God. Gregory.

[Jacob Weisberg]

Excuse me.

[Katie Baker]

He goes on, Gregory.

[Emily Peck]

Now, what has happened to Gregory?

[Felix Hammond]

Well, he got promoted because he wound up blackmailing. So now he's. Now he's Gregory.

[Emily Peck]

He comes in and he has that move where he kind of, like, takes his glove off and he looks. I mean, it's.

[Katie Baker]

That's what happens when you wake up in that apartment every day. It changes you, you know?

[Emily Peck]

I can't wait to see what else Gregory has up his sleeve.

[Felix Hammond]

Yeah. Oh, my God, you guys. You get. You did it. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks, man. Yeah.

[Katie Baker]

Hello, Greg.

[Felix Hammond]

I'm actually going by Gregory now, but, yeah, no matter. Thank you, Richard.

[Katie Baker]

Wow.

[Felix Hammond]

How are you, Marcia?

[Katie Baker]

Good, thanks.

[Felix Hammond]

And how was it? Was it awesome or.

[Katie Baker]

Yeah, it was eventful.

[Felix Hammond]

Yeah, it was good. It was good. Nice of you to come by, man. No worries. This is huge for us, and this, like, saves us maybe from the takeover. Greg. Hey, Gregory. Have a drink. Have a drink, you beautiful Ichabod. Crane. Fuck you. Yeah.

[Katie Baker]

Oh, wow.

[Felix Hammond]

Well, I gotta say, well done. You won. Yeah. Yeah. Money wins. Here's to us. Here's to us.

[Katie Baker]

That scene, you know, the way it ended after that Gregory scene, it was so brute, like just devastating that, you know, the toast and then Logan immediately just puts his drink down, turns away and goes up the stairs. And that's the celebration of the family. And everyone's just sitting there, you know, hating life, you know, quite the ending. But it did feel almost like a little bit of a mid season, you know, not finale, but it seems like there's going to be a whole next cycle of story.

[Felix Hammond]

Yeah, we're exactly halfway through, right?

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. All right. Until next week.

[Felix Hammond]

See you next week on Slate. Money, Succession.