Slate Money: Succession, S2E7, “Bolus of Gubbins”

Summary

Slate Money: Succession S2E7, “Bolus of Gubbins” – Detailed Episode Summary

Main Theme

In this episode of Slate Money: Succession recap, host Felix Salmon (Axios) joins Emily Peck and Lydia Polgreen (both HuffPost), along with guest Kandy Fong (photographer and Lydia’s wife), to dissect Season 2, Episode 7 of Succession, titled “Return.” The panel explores the toxic legacy of the Roy family as the clan travels to England, focusing on family dysfunction, parental neglect, power struggles, and the complex ‘queerness’ of Succession. The episode is particularly noteworthy for its deep dive into the Roy siblings’ relationship with their emotionally distant mother, Caroline, and the strategic maneuvering surrounding the future leadership of Waystar Royco.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Homecoming of Emotional Starvation (00:18–08:00)

• The group notes the episode’s English setting and the return of the Roy children's mother, Caroline.
• Emily highlights not just her physical starvation ("she doesn't feed her children") but the "metaphorical starvation" – emotional neglect that has defined the siblings’ lives.
• Quote: “There is the literal starvation, but I think more importantly, the metaphorical starvation.” – Lydia (03:00)
• The infamous “bolus of gubbins” line, Caroline's contempt for extravagance, and her implication that overindulgence is vulgar (05:06).
• Discussion of the food scenes as symbolic for parental neglect and familial dysfunction, including cultural jabs at American excess.

2. Familial Trauma and Infantilization (04:19–07:56)

• The group unpacks Caroline’s emotional withholding and how it mirrors Logan's own cruelty—especially in scenes where Logan forces Kendall to face his mother.
• The mother warns about breaking a tooth at dinner, paralleling Roman's childhood dental trauma at her hands (04:08).
• Quote: “You can really see in this episode how unloved these… adult children are.” – Emily (04:19)

3. Kendall's Arc: From Confidence to Collapse (07:11–10:10)

• The episode highlights Kendall starting confidently (even sending a dick pic to Naomi) before being emotionally dismantled by Logan’s manipulations.
• The panel questions whether the dynamic of women “begging for a dick pic” tracks with reality (08:12).
• Quote: “He just pushes it even further because he’s Logan, and then forces him to go into the house. And that kind of gratuitous cruelty… we’re seeing more and more.” – Felix (07:56)

4. Rhea’s Ambitions and the Shiv-Rhea Power Play (10:44–14:56)

• Speculation over whether Rhea and Logan are romantic and how Rhea leverages ambiguity in her interactions with Shiv.
• The consensus: Rhea is using Logan for Waystar Royco’s top job. “She’s pulling a Dick Cheney… Dick Cheney-ing him, right?” – Emily (12:23)
• Panel notes Shiv’s emotional unraveling after being outmaneuvered by Rhea, while positing Rhea’s strategy is to further weaken Shiv’s confidence in anticipation of an executive appointment (13:41–14:56).

5. Succession’s Queerness and Dysfunctional Relationships (28:43–31:41)

• Kandy introduces her viral thesis that Succession is “the queerest show on TV,” positing there’s sexual and emotional fluidity throughout—especially in performances between Tom/Greg and the Roman/Jerry dynamic.
• Quote: “It’s such a... Greg and Tom thing is like, so performative masculinity… like, what is that guy trying to be?” – Kandy (27:19)
• The family’s inability to have healthy intimate or sibling relationships is likened to their emotional stunting and the enduring impact of their parents.

6. Roman Roy's Mysterious Rehabilitation (19:58–24:32)

• The show appears to hint at Roman’s unexpected viability as successor, contrasting his apparent lack of scruples with his siblings' failings (21:15–23:13).
• Debates on Roman's surprising "self-control" and detachment from guilt over past misdeeds, comparing his attitudes toward the family's various scandals.

7. Business and Murdoch Parallels (15:42, 41:00)

• The Roys’ family dynamics are compared to those of the Murdoch family, particularly the tendency of would-be successors to leave, then return to vie for parental validation and corporate power.
• Noted parallels with the structure of real-life media dynasties, inheritance of trauma, and how money tethers the adult Roy children to their toxic parents.

8. Symbolism, Visuals, and Plot Threads (32:43–36:28, 35:00)

• Kandy, as a visual artist, notes the episode’s dark, cold cinematography.
• The symbolism of recurring imagery (food, money, cleaning glasses, etc.) is explored—especially the significance of Kendall cleaning a drinking glass in the home of his victim (46:09).
• Mythological references: Romulus & Remus, and clever links with real-life figures (James Murdoch’s investment company, etc.) (35:00).

9. Tactile Moments, Lines, and Easter Eggs (43:03–51:24)

• The episode is “bleakest and least funny,” which is reflected in sparseness of the usual zingers.
• Favorite lines discussed:
  • “Good boy, good boy.” (Logan to Roman, 44:34)
  • “Roy boys on tour, we got ’em in all sizes, large, medium, and cuck.” (Roman, 43:58)
  • “What polyglot genius could ever hope to crack your impenetrable, criminal mind?” (Greg/Tom subplot, 42:04)
• Felix spots subtle acting moments, such as Logan flipping off Naomi (43:03).

10. Numbers, Shares, and Strategic Negotiations (38:56–40:35)

• The group breaks down the revealed share percentages among the Roys, Caroline, Marcia, and a mysterious “Ulsterman.”
• The dinner table negotiation scene is praised for illustrating how Caroline and Shiv are more attuned to Logan’s mind games than Roman (40:13).

11. Looking Forward

• Predictions center on whether Logan is truly ready to name a successor or just buying time, and whether the next episode (titled “Dundee”) will explore Logan’s elusive backstory.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “There is the literal starvation, but I think more importantly, the metaphorical starvation.”
  — Lydia (03:00)
• Caroline (on food): “Well, you don’t want a great bolus of gubbins.” (05:06)
• Emily: “You can really see in this episode how unloved these… adult children are.” (04:19)
• Felix: “He just pushes it even further because he’s Logan, and then forces him to go into the house. And that kind of gratuitous cruelty… we’re seeing more and more.” (07:56)
• Emily (on Rhea): "She is like Dick Cheney-ing him, right?” (12:23)
• Kandy: “It’s such a… Greg and Tom thing is like, so performative masculinity… what is that guy trying to be?” (27:19)
• Roman (mocking the Roys): “Roy boys on tour, we got ’em in all sizes, large, medium, and cuck.” (43:58)
• Logan: “Good boy, good boy.” [to Roman after successful negotiation] (44:34)
• Kandy (about Succession’s queerness): “There’s not queer—there are no 'queer people' in the show right out there...but I find them all...there is something, you know, they're all like role playing.” (29:56)
• Felix (on mythological allusions): “The name of the wolf who suckled Romulus and Remus was Looper, which is the name of James Murdoch’s private investment company.” (35:43)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:18: Episode introduction, English setting, panel introductions.
• 03:01–05:06: Analysis of Caroline’s food as metaphor for emotional deprivation.
• 07:11–10:10: Kendall’s arc, Logan’s cruelty, and decay of self-respect.
• 10:44–14:56: Sexual power plays; Rhea’s Machiavellian maneuvering.
• 19:58–24:32: Roman’s self-control, rehabilitation, and moral vacuum.
• 27:19–31:41: Tom/Greg dynamics, performativity, and queerness.
• 32:43–36:28: Visual bleakness, symbolism, and “feeding” metaphors.
• 38:56–40:35: Shareholding breakdown, negotiation strategies.
• 42:04–44:34: Panel’s favorite lines and character observations.
• 51:24–55:31: Hypotheses for coming episodes; excitement for Logan’s backstory in Dundee.

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Tone & Style

The discussion is witty, insightful, and casually erudite, with panelists referencing theory, mythology, and their own lived experiences. Banter is frequent; even heavy moments are salted with dry humor and sharp observations. The podcast’s analytic style is informal with expertise and intimacy, creating an engaging, relatable breakdown valuable both to super-fans and casual viewers.

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Conclusion

This episode recap captures Succession’s deeply dysfunctional, often hilarious family dynamics at their bleakest. It was a revealing, darker-toned installment that set the stage for power struggles in both the Roy family and in the upper echelons of its corporate empire—leaving listeners eager for more backstory, especially as the action moves to Logan’s Scottish roots in Dundee.

Transcript

[A]

The following podcast contains explicit language.

[B]

Hello. Welcome to episode seven of our amazing Slate Money Succession recap podcast. The this is one close to my heart because I'm English, of course, and most of the episode takes place in England. And my favorite character, the mum, comes on. Who we have to talk about. Anyway, I am Felix Salmon of Axios. I'm here with two counters.

[C]

Better get this right.

[B]

Two members of the HuffPost team.

[A]

Well done, Felix.

[B]

Yay. I got it right. There's Emily Peck.

[C]

Hello.

[B]

Who writes about. What's your beat at HuffPost?

[C]

Um, let's say gender and economics.

[B]

Gender and economics. And then we have the one and only Lydia Polgreen who runs the entire thing.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Congratulations on being Emily's boss.

[C]

Lydia's my boss's boss's boss's boss.

[A]

I feel very lucky to be Emily's boss. She's terrific.

[B]

But, Lydia, you didn't just come here to talk about succession. You brought your wife.

[A]

I did. And. Well, we can introduce you.

[B]

Kandy. Introduce yourself.

[D]

Kandy fight wife of Lydia.

[B]

Wife of Lydia.

[A]

And photographer. Artist.

[B]

And photographer. Artist. And we really wanted you because, A, you're awesome, but B, you put this tweet out, which June Thomas, the queen of all things, Slate podcast circulated immediately to the entire crew, where you said that Succession is the queerest show on tv.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And so I believe it is. You believe it is. Even after this episode, which is probably the most heterosexual episode of Succession ever.

[D]

It is.

[A]

Once again.

[B]

So we need to talk about all of this. So I can't wait to get stuck in. Emily, you're the one who always has, like, a structure in mind.

[C]

Yes. Okay, well, this episode is called Return, and in this episode, we return to London, the scene of the crime. And it's also a homecoming of sorts for the Roy. The Roy boys and girl to see their terrible, anorexic mother. Is that a good summary?

[B]

Is she anorexic?

[C]

I can talk about that for a long time.

[B]

Can we? Yeah. Talk about that.

[C]

I mean, so when Logan is talking to Kendall and Roman about how they're going to have to go and, you know, bribe their mother so she doesn't, you know, take her shares elsewhere, he asks in passing. Oh, you're gonna. You're gonna go see your mom.

[A]

How.

[C]

What's that dinner gonna be like? And Roman says something like, what is it?

[D]

I don't know.

[B]

Something about three trout and fill up on mustard.

[A]

It's three muddy trout for six and.

[C]

Some fill up on mustard. And this, like, I've never seen Logan squeal with delight before the way he does in reaction. And then when they do get finally to the dinner, she comes out with this dish of pigeon and says, you know, be careful when you eat that. It has shot in it and. Oh, and some feathers. And the implication is this woman does not eat. She's very thin and she doesn't feed her children. Cause she's not very maternal either. But I was thinking.

[D]

And they ate before.

[C]

Eating disorder. And they ate before.

[A]

Yes. I mean, I think to me. And there's so much to unpack with the mother, and there is the literal starvation, but I think more importantly, the metaphorical starvation. Yes. And also some callbacks. Right. I mean, you have this moment in the episode where Logan sort of semi apologizes to Roman for slugging him in the face.

[B]

It's not something I do.

[A]

It's not something I do. And sort of. And then Roman kind of just doesn't know what to do. So he starts babbling about how there are so many buildings and cars. But I thought that the fact that the mother warns Roman to watch out while eating this was sort of a callback to his teeth.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Being broken by his mother. You lose a tooth, you know? And it's just. I just thought, oh, my gosh, these people, these poor. I mean, poor. They're horrible humans, but they're really fucked both ways.

[C]

I mean, you can really see in this episode how unloved these. These adult children are. I mean, that heartbreaking scene where Kendall just wants to talk to his mommy and, like, confess his sins to her, and she will not let him talk to her. She will not let him. She won't. She says, oh, of course, let's get into it. But she doesn't, you know, sit down at the table with him. She keeps eating. What is she eating? I'm obsessed with what this woman is eating.

[B]

So there's a great line, actually, to apropos her anorexia, which I didn't pick up on, but now I realize is totally a thing. When she brings out the pigeon to the table and there's some grumbling about the pigeon, and she's like, well, you don't want a great bolus of gubbins.

[D]

Oh, yeah. What?

[A]

Can you translate?

[D]

What does that mean?

[C]

What is that?

[B]

It's very English. It basically just means a whopping great bowl of stuff. But bolus of gubbins. I mean, someone wrote that and just had so much fun writing that line.

[C]

Well, look, Kendall's gone to the pub, apparently, so I've just had a little bit of pigeon. Done. Didn't think anyone would be feeling terribly hungry. I know I'm not.

[A]

No. Right.

[C]

Don't want to grate.

[A]

Of course not.

[C]

Bolus of gubbins, take a plate.

[A]

Thank you. So, how are you?

[C]

I might just as well ask you if you're going to go into all that.

[A]

It wasn't intended as an aggressive question, mom, it's.

[C]

No, I'm fine. Rory's wonderful.

[A]

So should I be. Mother? Yeah.

[B]

Why don't you give it a go?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I'm sorry it's not a 48 ounce T bone steak with truffle fries, but there we go. Some of us don't want coronary heart attacks.

[A]

Nice, Mom. It's nice.

[C]

There's quite a lot of shot in the pigeon, so mind how you go. You crack a tooth and the shot can take a bit of feather in, too.

[B]

Shot and feather.

[A]

Well, and also the contempt that she clearly had for American excess. You know, this is not a. What would you rather have a 96 ounce rib eye with truffle fries?

[B]

Just truffle fries.

[C]

I would rather have that.

[A]

And I do like a bit of pigeon.

[D]

But the truffle fries are a sick burn. They're like. What is more basic billionaire than truffle fries?

[C]

That's true.

[B]

Yeah, they're pretty basic.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Basic billionaire or basic dozenaire.

[C]

What did you think about, speaking of parents who don't love their children? The move that Logan pulled with Kendall, forcing him to go back to, you know, to visit the parents.

[B]

He pulls move after move. Like, first of all, he's like, you need to sort of come with me to the house. And then that's the point at which Kendall goes from being a vaguely self respecting number two who's come back from the broken robot of episode one to just completely falling apart in front of your eyes. And then he just pushes it even further because he's Logan, and then forces him to go into the house. And that kind of gratuitous cruelty is. I think we're seeing more and more of the gratuitously cruel Logan in this and the way that he just messes with his kids because he can.

[A]

Well, and I think that there was an interesting almost building up of Kendall in the first part of the episode. You know, we see him look more human and normal. I mean, what's more human and normal for a, you know, early 40s man than to send a dick pic to the woman he's trying to.

[B]

Okay, can I just ask about this Because I am, and I kind of predate the era of dick pics. But, like, is it normal for someone for like a woman to really beg some guy to send her a dick pic?

[A]

I mean, you're here with.

[D]

I'm not sure we're the right audience to answer that question.

[A]

I feel like two lesbians in a married lady.

[B]

Extreme lesbian, heterosexual.

[A]

Jasmine, Jasmine, can you help us?

[D]

I was like, oh, he's not on the WI Fi. Like, why is it so broken up that phone call and that he has to take a picture and send.

[B]

Billionaires can't afford WI Fi.

[D]

What's happening?

[C]

That's so true, though. The episode starts with a very pumped up Kendall literally showing his dick to his new fancy girlfriend and ends with him in a very bad way.

[A]

Well, and there was this great line. And you know, you don't often get funny lines from Kendall, but there was this great line where he says. And he seems to almost have trouble getting it out and he's surprised that he's being funny, but he says, what are we, an octopus giving reach arounds to every fish on the reef now? And when the suggestion is that they go to the uk. And I thought, oh, this is very unkendall.

[C]

Yeah, that's so true.

[B]

Oh, right.

[C]

Yeah, it was very Roman y.

[A]

It was a very Roman line. And I was like, Kendall's feeling himself, you know, and it's almost like seeing that. That his father. I mean, I think it's. To me, there's something really meaningful in the fact that it's. After he discovers that. After Logan discovers that Kendall had spent the night with Naomi Pierce, that. That's what he's.

[B]

It was clearly he was angry. He slams the door behind her. He kicks her out. He slams the door behind her. He's like, okay, now brainstorm. He needs to make sure that his son doesn't get to, you know, sit in a rowboat with Regent's park.

[A]

With enough Simon and Garfunkelsong, it did.

[C]

Seem like a total reaction to seeing Naomi. That just pissed him off so much. And he later calls Kendall cuntstruck, which I thought was.

[A]

Which is, you know, I mean, talk about projection, right? There's lots of reasons to believe that Logan is a bit cunt struck himself.

[C]

We gotta get into that.

[B]

Can I also just mention one of my favorite billionaire lines in the episode, which is when Naomi walks in and Kendall goes, she was in Venice for the Biennale, so it was easy for her to pop over. I mean, it's. I mean, once. Once you're in Europe anyway. Right?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Just like hop on a plane or something.

[B]

Hop on the G50, get on a.

[A]

Vaporetti and the airport. Yeah.

[B]

So. So, yeah. So this whole relationship between Logan and Rhea, which has been a bit mysterious up until now, is still mysterious, but maybe is coming into a bit more focus.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are they having sex?

[A]

It's never quite spelled out. And even if they're not, I was very impressed on how Rhea used it with Shiv.

[B]

That was so evil.

[A]

It was, you know. Cause I mean, it's almost more powerful if they're not actually having sex. But the fact that they didn't spell it out, I thought was an interesting narrative choice. Well, look, yeah.

[D]

I don't know what to say.

[C]

I. I just like you and I, I. Your father's a very appealing man and I hope.

[A]

No, it's fine. It's, you know, it's good to check before you fuck someone's dad. No, I mean, yeah. Do you due diligence, your paperwork? Do I need to sign like a release form or. I feel like a total idiot.

[D]

So congratulations.

[C]

No, because you play your cards pretty close.

[A]

Oh, who says I have cards.

[C]

But you?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Honestly, no. I feel like a flame roasted wood fired dipshit. Yeah. I did the thing that I said I was never gonna do and now. I don't know. I don't know.

[C]

And Rhea, I mean, we all agree that Raya is having sex or not having sex with Logan simply because she wants to be the next CEO of Waystar Royco. Like, that's where she. That's where her head is at. This is like. She is like Dick Cheneying him. Right?

[A]

I know, Totally. She's pulling a Dick Cheney is exactly what I wrote in my notes.

[C]

She. Because by the way, I could come.

[B]

Up with a short list of two or three shortlist, two very dictators.

[C]

Oh, you know what? I couldn't find anyone except I really fit the bill for this.

[B]

Well, it's clearly that. I mean, it's pretty obvious to both of them that they're talking about her.

[A]

And she's just, you know, they're just sort of playing. Playing a role. But I think it was very striking to me that Logan seemed sort of weak out of it, not very sharp in their late night conversations. Like it was almost like he was making him either intentionally or this is just a situation that he finds himself in. He's making himself vulnerable to this, this person who's clearly a shark. I mean, she, she, she picks right up on it and runs with it, but I With that scene when they're having whiskeys in the house in London where he is essentially kind of begging for her help. And she sort of says, oh, well, you want me to try and fix that for you?

[B]

And the plan that she comes up with is so weirdly evil and also weirdly improbable. I mean, I have to say that there are bits of, like, this sort of middle bit of season two where I'm like, okay, I'm having a couple of issues here with the writing.

[A]

Like, the verisimilitude isn't.

[B]

Isn't the sort of the plotting or something. Like, isn't the idea that Logan could install his daughter of CEO of ps, which is the company that he wants to buy. Like, it would be so easy to paint that as something she was doing for him for his sake and, like, would be great for him. And, like, somehow it doesn't occur to Shiv to try and pull that move. Instead, she just kind of bursts into tears and goes, oh, no, I've been double crossed by Rhea. It's like, huh, Yeah.

[A]

I found the way that Shiv just crumpled after that final confrontation with Logan to not be particularly believable for her character. But it also could be trying to illustrate the point that Rhea was making was that she's not as smart as she thinks she is. And that there is this, you know, this. This incredible magical power that her father has over her that in a way that she can. There are these a couple of great lines where she basically says, I've put myself in a position that I never wanted to be in, which is waiting around for my father's approval or permission or whatever. And she's clearly lived her whole life never wanting to be in that place. And she's played herself and she's. She's right where he wants it.

[B]

Which is exactly.

[C]

The whole season has really been. This is Shiv's storyline. It's like she came back in and slowly her bullying father has chipped away at her ego, at her self confidence. So that, like, the Shiv who said, I'm Shiv fucking Roy last season is, like, gone and got snookered by Rhea. Whereas, like, that season one, Shiv maybe wouldn't have. She was smarter. She was more on the ball and thinking. And by the time you get to this episode and she's chasing her father literally around the globe, she's kind of, like, wrecked. It reminds me of, like, women I speak to who've been, like, sexually discriminated against. And by the end of it all, they're like, maybe I'm not that smart. Maybe like my three Harvard degrees didn't mean anything. Blah, blah.

[A]

She's been down slammed by herself. Thank you.

[C]

Yes, she totally has.

[B]

But this is also the Murdoch parallels, right? All of the Murdoch kids, at some point or another, you know, left the family company, decided they were going to do something on their own because they didn't want to be competing for their father's affection and for senior jobs within, you know, Rupert's company. And they all wind up coming in in one way or another and, you know, probably against their better judgment. It's, it's, it's clearly one of the more Murdochy parts of the show.

[A]

Well, we were talking about this on the walk down Candy. The one person here who has really no exposure to media. Twitter, except adjacent to me and doesn't follow these things. I mean, I like, why would someone who doesn't care about media watch this show?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, proximity. Proximity.

[C]

I was.

[D]

Lydia started watching it. I watched a couple of episodes and I was like, I can't watch this.

[A]

It's.

[D]

I'm. You know, everyone is horrible, right?

[A]

We.

[D]

The news is horrible. People on the news is horrible, are horrible. I try to limit my exposure. And so I stopped watching, you know, around episode three of season one of season one. And then she had it on and.

[A]

I was in the other room.

[D]

I was like, it was episode six or seven. I was like, wow, what's happening? And I started paying attention and then I had to go back and rewatch because, I don't know, it just. I was like, these people are horrible. I can't not look at them. These people, like, the similarities between our current, like, Murdochs with. It's just mind blowing. But I can't figure them out because to me, now I watch as a, as someone fascinated with a really fucked up family.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

More than anything. Right. And like the interchange between the kids and the like, that to me is.

[A]

The most interesting part and the universality of that. I mean, you know, like, to me, the sort of final dagger was in the. There's clearly this battle going on between Logan and Caroline is the mother's name. Yeah, yeah, that's, you know, these elephants and the children of the grass and, you know, her final twist of the knife is to force the kids to go back to Logan and say, would you rather give me your, you know, estate in the Hamptons that I don't even want or like, or $20 million, but you give up the kids and, you know, it's clear that it was not even a moment's hesitation for. For. For Logan. For Logan.

[B]

You know, he's like, oh, yeah, you go back to your mom's for Christmas.

[C]

They're adult children. Like, how does the divorce settlement involve, like, who gets to spend Christmas with the adult children? That's just mind boggling.

[B]

The children selfishness of this couple become increasingly infantilized over the course of both seasons. Actually, I think, you know, we saw that most of all with Kendall in this episode where he spends most of the episode looking like he's about five and about to burst into tears. But all of them just become increasingly infantilized by the more that the closer they become to their father and even to their mother. And they just. They can never grow up. They can never leave the roles that they've been in all their lives.

[C]

I guess if this was a like, quote unquote, normal, unloved children of horrible, unloving parents, they would have left and not had anything to do with them. But the money is the string that keeps them tethered together.

[D]

And someone like Rhea really seems to buy into this infantilizing narrator. Like, she's also infantilizing them pretty consistently, right? With the shiv saying, you know, I know what it's like in fake feminists. Like, I know what it's like to fight your way up through this industry. And she has this whole. I don't know if she's really into Greek tragedies, but, like, she makes two statements that are very, you know, kind of outsized, right? Like when Roman comes back and, you know, like, oh, you better stab your eyes out. Like, you know, he's like, Oedipus, he fucked over mom. So, I mean, she's trying to, like, both elevate them in their. In their minds, but also ironically, cut them down in family.

[A]

I mean, it's interesting that you picked up on the theater thing, because that's why. On the tragedy thing, because that's why Rhae was there, right? Allegedly to go see theater, and she just caught a ride with Logan.

[B]

I wanna talk a little bit about the weird rehabilitation of Roman over the past few episodes. Like, he was always the toddler with a hard on, right? He was the joke kid, right? But now, like, you actually have Jerry pulling him aside and saying, look, if you were serious about that whole power sharing thing and, like, actually kind of taking him seriously. And you had this line on the private jet between Rhea and Logan where Rhaey is talking about the different kids and she says, quote, roman could actually be good but nowhere near right now. And it seems like after making Roman this, you know, caricature joke for, like, one and a half seasons, now they're trying to sort of say, oh, maybe there's this wild card in the mix and it could actually be Roman. Even though we all just, like, looked at Roman and took one look at him, went, there's no way it can be Roman.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They're adding in this. They're adding in this. This weird, bizarre option. And that feels a bit wrong to me, too. I don't know.

[A]

Well, it's interesting. I mean, it does and it doesn't. I mean, Roman, to me has always seemed to be the one who's just completely without any sort of scruple or morals. And I think that that's what's required to be as rut as Logan Roy. And so, you know, to the outside world, he has qualities that would seem to be disqualifying. And, you know, I mean, I loved the Malala Roy line, you know? Cause it's clear that this memo that Shiv had written had just landed with such an enormous thud, you know, and the way that it gets ruthlessly mocked on the plane is extraordinary.

[B]

But also the way that the conversation between Shiv and Tom when they're entering Logan's apartment and she's talking about how she was, you know, presumably wanting to move ATN a little bit towards the center, and she's, like, very defensive about this. And she's like, I'm saying, follow the ad revenue. And Tom replies, and he says, sure. I think the cynicism was pretty clear.

[A]

Yeah, it's clear.

[C]

Even Tom didn't like her memo. Right. He keeps saying, like, why don't you show it to me?

[D]

Like, why?

[C]

It seemed to me that the implication was this memo was a clunker. It had an Amelia Earhart quote in.

[A]

It, which Thomas Aquinas and Amelia, and lots of photos of multiracial children.

[B]

And Roman's wonderful line about it warmed even my racist heart.

[C]

I think there's some truth to that. Roman has the total lack of morality, and the other two sort of have something stuck in them that is a little bit moral.

[B]

Yeah. Roman was the one who wanted to shut down Valter, right?

[C]

Yeah, he didn't care about shutting down Valter. And then that move he did in season one where his current girlfriend. I forget her name, the curly blonde hair, he's like, is that Tiffany?

[A]

No.

[D]

Holly, maybe?

[A]

No, I think Holly is. Is Connor's wife. Her girlfriend.

[C]

Well, anyway, she was the one who, you Know, had a thing. Had a thing with wands, gams.

[A]

Oh, right.

[C]

And the. And then he. It was like very much a Logan esque kind of power play to, like, he has now his girlfriend. He has her, and she has this thing over his sister, you know, that she gave a blowjob to Tom Wambsgans. And now he. He's brought her into the. Just to sort of lord it over him. I mean, it is a very Logan y kind of move, I think.

[A]

I also think that. And this is gonna sound really weird, but I think Roman has a kind of self control that both Shiv and Kendall do not have. Right. Kendall is an addict. He clearly has, you know, brought enormous embarrassment to his father from his behavior. And Shiv has clearly shown herself to have this impulsive, emotional. I mean, these all sound like very gendered terms, but this is certainly the way that it's portrayed. You know, she had done a really good job of controlling and cloaking her ambition to run her father's company, but, you know, has. Has played her hand and played it badly. And Roman, in a weird way, I mean, clearly the guy does drugs, but not an addict or doesn't appear to be an addict. You know, his sexual behavior is weird, but not in a way that is. I mean, it was telling that the dirt that. That cherry is digging up, you know.

[B]

It'S like, did your personal trainer, like, wank you off at the end of your training sessions?

[A]

That's pretty, you know, mild stuff, given.

[C]

The standards of not manslaughter.

[A]

It's not manslaughter. Right, exactly. So in a weird way, although, like.

[B]

And the weird thing is that he is actually guilty of manslaughter. This is the whole thing from season one.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He actually blew up that rocket and killed a bunch of people.

[C]

Just lost a thumb or something.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he doesn't care. Like, it doesn't actually penetrate his dermis whatsoever.

[A]

But it's also, I mean, that's the difference between, you know, one death is a tragedy. And, you know, it's, you know, if you blow up a rocket through negligence, that's a very different thing in corporate America than it is to literally drive. So, you know, although Kendall wasn't driving, but literally leave someone to drown in a car because you're high off your.

[C]

I think he was driving, wasn't he?

[A]

He was. Oh, was Kendall driving?

[C]

Yeah, he was driving.

[A]

Oh, yeah. We. We were revisiting the accident and trying to piece together what. Exactly. We should have rewatched that.

[B]

Kendall. Yeah. And then Kendall coming Back in the middle of the night and shoving, like, what, like a couple hundred pounds through the message?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

How much did he shove?

[A]

It did not seem like that much money.

[D]

I thought it was amazing. Like, he didn't even have an envelope. It was like, what kind of guy goes. He just went to the ATM and took out all his daily limit, maybe, and threw it in the mail slot.

[C]

Have we seen the end of that storyline?

[D]

No.

[C]

No, Right.

[A]

I assume it comes back.

[B]

Okay, Maybe in season three.

[C]

Oh, I had a question about Sandy. Was Sandy, right, the guy who runs the tabloids who did the story, who.

[B]

May or may not have syphilis?

[C]

Is it supposed to be like a Murdoch and, you know, the other guy, the Zuckerman.

[A]

Zuckerman.

[C]

Is it supposed to be like Murdoch and Zuckerman? Is Sandy supposed to be like Zuckerman, Zuckerman?

[B]

Or maybe like.

[C]

And had tabloid war with.

[B]

Or maybe like Robert Maxwell or one of those other media barons?

[C]

Yeah, I needed to know that. Thank you.

[B]

And he owns the rival tabloid in the uk, so it could be like Lord Rothermir.

[C]

So I guess the episode also. So it leaves the manslaughter storyline kind of still hanging around. And then we also have sort of the continuation of the cruise storyline. Where is this now, this internal investigation going on? And he thinks it's gonna be just like slipping into a warm bubble bath.

[A]

Putting on the eagles and playing with himself.

[B]

Yes.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

And Logan starts off the episode turning to Marcia and saying, all the cruise noise is a fucking nothing burger. Which clearly it isn't.

[A]

It's clearly not a nothing burger. But, you know, I was struck. And Kandy, you had mentioned this, that the Greg and Tom scenes didn't really work for me. They didn't have the same sort of.

[D]

Same bite or bite and spark as.

[B]

The Greg and Tom scenes normally have.

[D]

Yeah, there's like a.

[B]

Because they're a great double act normally.

[D]

Totally. I think that when I say that the show is queer, it's like, this is such a. The Greg and Tom thing is like, so performative masculinity performance. It's like he's going to light these papers on fire. And it's like, hold my beer, dude. Like, what is that guy. Like, what is he trying to be? You know, what is he trying to say?

[B]

Yeah, and that thing where he actually says, like, if you don't do this, I will break your leg. Tom has never and could never and will never break anyone's leg. And the only person who would even dream that that was a credible Threat is gre, Right.

[A]

It's not personal.

[B]

I just can't trust you. So in a friendly way, I'm staying here tonight. I'm gonna travel in with you tomorrow and I'm gonna go with you to wherever you have the papers. And then later together we're gonna dispose of them off premises. And if you squeal or you try to take copies, I'll break your legs.

[D]

And Greg's like. Oh, yeah, okay.

[C]

Like that whole.

[D]

Yeah. You know, he's trying to just have like a wine and cheese party at his house and, you know.

[B]

And what was that, like some weird, like third way progressive talking shop thing?

[A]

No, it was like. It was like. It seemed more about like self actualization than politics. That was my. I forget exactly what it was called, but renewal, something. Renewal. Yeah. It felt to me more like a kind of like young corporates, you know.

[C]

Like we're planning the.

[A]

What did they say?

[C]

The welcome to the next generation, welcome to the third wave or something.

[B]

They're trying to elevate the world. Conscious business, just like we work. Yeah.

[D]

With business, with money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But. Yeah, no, but let's stick on this for a minute since you're here. And this is the Candy Thesis. Explain the Candy Thesis of succession being a deeply queer show.

[D]

I just, you know, first of all, I'm like a total Jerry Roman Stan. I think that's really. I just feel like fanfic is there, you know, there has to be some Jerry Roman fanfic. And that Roman, like, he's a kinky guy and that's what has kind of yet to be fully explored. It's been sort of hinted at and he loves to be humiliated. And that makes complete sense.

[A]

Right.

[D]

We see why.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

We see why with, you know, Logan, who for him, love and fear are the same thing for, you know, his interaction with, you know, all the kids, which makes you think, you know, they've been hit before.

[A]

Right.

[D]

It's not a one time thing. And the queerness between. Of what Roman seems to be actualizing with Jerry, but with, you know, even the being, you know, jerked off by the trainer, it's like, wow, that's your thing. And we know it's probably not because we have yet to see him actually.

[A]

Have a physical sexual encounter with anyone. But I also think, like, there's a real kind of queerness in the relationship between Tom and Greg.

[D]

Oh, definitely.

[A]

I mean, the water throwing, you know, wanting that fidelity from him in the safe room episode. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

I just think it's. To me that's what it is. Cause there's not. There's not queer. There are no, quote, queer people in the show right out there.

[B]

But they're all.

[D]

But I find them all. There is something, you know, they're all like role playing. They're all, you know, Jerry has this like very two sided way of being.

[A]

Right.

[D]

Like very super masculine in her assertiveness. But she is always dressed in this like kind of bizarrely matronly way. And we only glimpse her sexiness when she's talking to someone like Roman.

[C]

I felt like even in this episode they really didn't interact that much. They still had a real chemistry. Like he looks at her with a soft. Like when they were talking and she was saying she was gonna, you know, have private investigators investigate him. He looks at her with this very soft, loving look now. And they have this real chemistry. And I think she said in an interview that even in season one, they were telling her to kind of amp up the chemistry with Roman. Like they have been. They were planning it all along, which I think is fascinating.

[B]

And then of course, Connor is just deeply dysfunctional. I mean, they're all dysfunctional, but like, Connor's this kind of weird thing where he finds himself some hooker who like, doesn't make. None of it makes sense.

[A]

The playwright who. Yeah, they've all got. But you see it all come out in this. In their examples of intimate relationships that they have seen in their lives. You know, those are your role models for how you live your life. And, you know, getting to spend more time with their mother, I think was really, really revealing just to get a sense of how character is formed and then distorted by money. Because I think you're right that if these were normal kids, they would just have gone off to college and like found their own lives and moved on.

[C]

Had their own children to abuse.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, Kendall has children, but you never see them and you never, you know.

[B]

Well, he tries to hug them in episode one and fails.

[A]

Yeah, he's just, you know, I mean, their ab to achieve any kind of intimacy. All of them, you know, with one another as siblings, you know, parent to child, you know, with romantic partners. They're all just like so broken. And, you know, for me, this was actually the least funny and bleakest episode of succession.

[B]

Although Boar on the Floor was pretty.

[A]

Oh, wow. Yeah. But it was also funny. And I felt like the thing that was missing in this episode, and I think it was probably intentional, was the comedy. And I think that the Greg and Tom scenes were probably rightly not that funny, because the thing that they're talking about is actually horrific. You know, I mean, that there's been this massive cover up of, you know, sexual abuse and, you know, perhaps even murders of workers on this cruise ship. So I feel like this episode went to some very, very dark places.

[D]

I think, literally dark. I mean, I think the way it looked was especially that scene with Kendall and Logan in the car going to visit the family. It's all blues and purples and very. I mean, like, the visuals in the show are completely. There was nothing warm. There were no warm colors in, I would say, 80% of the.

[C]

Finally, there's a visual artist on the show that can talk about these things.

[B]

It's true. When Kendall goes returns to the house in the dark of night to push the money through the slot, and then he goes back to his mother, and he tries to have that, like, unburden himself to his mom, of all people. And it's very dark, and it's like candle lit.

[C]

Are they quite difficult? Because, you know, I'm very tired, Felix.

[A]

And I don't think I can do it over an egg.

[B]

And then she does this thing, okay, where you have this, like, emotionally stunted. A great English character actor playing, like, an emotionally stunted person who can't really come to terms with themselves getting embarrassed in the middle of the night and then leaving in the morning by leaving a note on the table is, can I just say, that's Withnail and I. Which, I mean, I don't know how many listeners of the Slate Money Succession recap podcast are, like, withnail fans, but it's the greatest movie of all time, and it's straight out of Withnail.

[A]

Huh. I've never seen it.

[D]

Same.

[C]

Also, to show how closed off this woman is, Shiv asks her, so, how are you? And she gets mad.

[A]

She's like, oh, are we gonna go into all that?

[C]

She gets mad. That's how. That's a big theme of this episode is no one wants to talk about anything. She doesn't want to say how she is. She doesn't want to hear the difficult things. Roman doesn't even want his father to apologize for hitting him. Like, he doesn't want to even talk about it. That's how closed off emotionally these people are.

[A]

Yeah, nobody wants to connect. I mean, to me, with withholding and, you know, perhaps this is just my interest in Freud and related things, but, you know, like, literally not nourishing is, I think, just starving.

[B]

Okay, so wait, can I just jump in here? Because this is My favorite random thing that I just learned this week. So you know how Logan calls Roman Romulus?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right. Romulus, of course, is famously raised by wolves. Or a wolf. Okay, I don't know how many, like, Roman history nerds are. Do you know what the name of the wolf who suckled Romulus and Remus was?

[A]

Rhea.

[B]

No, I'm kidding.

[A]

No.

[B]

Rhea was their mother.

[A]

Oh, that's right. I knew that. That was the.

[B]

Rhea was the mother of Romulus and Remus. Remus. Whoa. Yeah. And the name of the wolf. This is my favorite little random fact. The name of the wolf who suckled Ryman, Lewis and Remus was Looper, which is the name of James Murdoch's private investment company.

[A]

Whoa. Oh, wow. That's quite an Easter egg on that.

[D]

There's a lot of. I mean, also, I notice Roman is eating constantly in this episode. In the plane, he's having honeydew. Of all things.

[C]

Of all things.

[A]

Nice melon. Candy turned to me and she's like, he's rich. Why is he eating honeydew?

[B]

Josh Barrow would disapprove.

[A]

Terrible.

[D]

Like the Terror. The worst fruit.

[B]

It's the worst.

[C]

A good honeydew is delicious. The problem is it's often very, very bad.

[A]

That's a different pun.

[B]

Maybe it was.

[C]

I could go too.

[B]

Maybe it was like Japanese honeydew.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. Special honeydew. Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's billionaire honeydew. Honeydew tastes better.

[C]

He is eating all the time. What's up with that?

[D]

Dunno.

[C]

He needs his eggy pegs and he's like, feed.

[A]

But, I mean, maybe it's that he's feeding himself. Right. And I like. And this is to sort of further your theory, right? That this notion that Roman is somehow able to get his needs met and therefore doesn't lash out. He doesn't become an addict. He doesn't, you know, expose himself in the way that Shiv did with the Pierces. And that he can somehow nourish himself and take care of himself in a way that the other children kind of can't.

[C]

He's like this wild anim raised by wolves and therefore can take care of himself.

[A]

The wiliest one.

[B]

And maybe he'll wind up founding Rome.

[A]

Maybe.

[C]

Oh, another thing I need to just tell you is that Logan doesn't wear a seatbelt.

[A]

I noticed that.

[C]

It was a very deliberate choice. In all the car scenes, the kids have one on and he's like, fuck it. No seatbelt was Logan.

[B]

Now it's coming back to me. I didn't notice this at the time, but was he sitting in the back of the car with his suit button done up?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Why would you do that?

[A]

It wasn't a suit. It was more.

[B]

It was like a jacket. A coat?

[A]

Yeah, it was more of a coat.

[B]

But when you sit down, you unbutton your button.

[C]

That's like, what everyone knows that.

[A]

I felt that this episode was the frailest and least powerful that Logan looked.

[B]

He was running away from his daughter the entire episode. I mean, like, when he turns around and goes, I've never run away from anyone. We've just seen you run away from your daughter in, like, three different situations.

[A]

And he's clearly leaning on Rhea. Right. I mean, he's kind of.

[B]

And not Marcia.

[A]

And definitely not Marcia, because they have.

[B]

That little scene on the steps at the beginning, and then he, like, abandons his wife. You know, I've. This has been my, like, running theme through this podcast is like, where's Marcia? Yeah, Marcia seems to have been forgotten.

[C]

She's done. Right. I mean, he's.

[B]

He's thrown her over to Rhea.

[A]

But I think. I think we're gonna come back around to Marcia because there's just too much there. You know, the investment in character development that they've expended on her in. In the Turnhaven episode, that's gotta come back around somehow.

[C]

Also, I feel like they laid out the numbers for us pretty well. So now we know they own. What is it, 34%.

[B]

They have 36.

[C]

36%.

[A]

And then.

[B]

And then mom has another 3%. And then this mysterious Ulsterman has four feet.

[C]

That's fat Bastard.

[B]

Who is the mysterious Ulsterman in Cheltenham? Do we know anything about the Ulsterman?

[C]

We just know he has a big appetite.

[A]

And apparently Caroline can help. Yeah, Caroline. She'll throw that in.

[C]

What does that mean?

[A]

She'll throw that in for free.

[B]

Yeah. If you give me your three children for Christmas, then I'll give you the ultimate.

[A]

And $20 million.

[B]

And $20 million, which is.

[C]

You know, but I feel like they were breaking down the. Like, couldn't Marsha, like, team up with the Roy children and, like, leverage their shares? Like, yeah, it's 36% if they all stick together. But I don't know how much Logan, individually that was.

[B]

The whole plot of. Was that Kendall was gonna take his shares and vote them with Stewie.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So, yeah, the kids vote their own shares, but everyone assumes that the kids are gonna stick with Logan, which I think is a reasonable assumption. One of the.

[C]

I'm waiting for Shiv to rise Up.

[B]

One of the interesting things I noticed about the negotiation around the dining room table with Mum was that we saw the original conversation between Logan and Roman where Logan is like. Like, offer 10, but I'll go up as high as. As high as 50, but don't go as high as 50, because I'll be very annoyed. And then Roman comes out. He says, well, he said to offer 10, but it'll go up as high as 40. And mom immediately knows. Oh, so you mean 50, right? And he's like, no, no, no. And.

[A]

And Shiv, you're bad at this, Mom.

[B]

She says, you're bad at. She knew exactly what was happening, and Shiv knew exactly what was happening. And Shiv was like. Like, Roman doesn't even know the real number. Like, he could go up to 200. Like, no, Roman has no idea what the real number is. Both Siobhan and her mother have a better idea of how Logan operates than Roman does. So I don't think Roman is ready to take over.

[C]

So where are we going next? I mean, are we building up to Rhea becoming CEO and, like, taking everything over? Is there going to be some kind of, like, counter move by the Roy children? Like, well, the big thing is. I want to know.

[B]

The big thing is the public naming of the successor.

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

That's the driving.

[B]

Because that was part of when they have that little video which is sent out, and they're like, corporate governance, blah, blah, blah, and he hasn't named a successor. They're really pushing this MacGuffin, you know?

[A]

But I think that my prediction, and I generally try to avoid predictions, but I feel as though Logan is playing for time. And the Rhea Gambit. The Rhea Gambit is part of playing for time. I don't think that it means that he's made up his mind that he's not gonna name of his children as his successor. But just as he used Rhea to put off Shiv and give him an excuse to get out of it, I mean, I think he says, thanks for getting that noose from around my neck. I think that this toying with Rhea is also a way for him to kind of vamp a bit and keep playing for more time. I personally would be very surprised if he left the company if he named a successor who was not one of his children, but, you know, I guess anything.

[C]

And is he, like, literally playing for time, like, for his life, essentially? Because if he's not running this company, he might as well be dead. And he's now in his 80s, and it's just like, A fight against time, basically. That's kind of dark.

[D]

I support him. Depressed.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Now I feel sad. Someone cheer me up. Give me a good line.

[B]

All right. I don't know what my favorite line is. I kind of. I mean, I think just in terms of sheer, sort of Iannucci, you know, over the topness. That bit about Greg, you're a criminal mastermind. What polyglot genius could ever hope to crack your impenetrable curve? Was pretty good secret.

[A]

I felt like this episode was not as rich in great lines, in part because it was not rich with humor.

[B]

It felt like the best lines are the funny lines. Right?

[A]

The best lines are the funny lines. And there were some that, you know, as someone who works in media, particularly in digital media, you know, made. Like when Rhea said, the next Zucker fucker comes along and swallows you whole, shits you out as an app close to the bone.

[C]

You would never.

[D]

I don't know if you guys saw this, but when Naomi is leaving and he's asking, and Logan's asking after the cousins and, you know, Nan, everything, he gives her a subtle finger. What?

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[D]

He tonally flips her the bird.

[A]

He says, give him my fucking best, or something like that, you know, and then he sort of scratches his face in this way. Yeah, that's like giving her the bird. And it was a great visual joke.

[D]

So it was a gesture instead of a line.

[A]

Amazing.

[C]

He wouldn't even say, like, hello to her.

[D]

That was.

[C]

He just iced her out like a child. I was kind of impressed by that because even when I hate someone, I'll be like, hi, how are you?

[B]

Especially when you hate someone.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

You need to be full on billionaire to be openly. To be like, fuck up dismissive of the people you hate.

[D]

Yeah, but he loves to be hated also, right? Yeah. He relishes the whole clam big with people who hate you.

[A]

Yes.

[D]

You know, hate and love, what's the difference?

[A]

He definitely gets off on it. I mean, Roman had some good lines this episode. The humor question notwithstanding. In the plane when he says, roy boy's on tour, we got him in all sizes, large, medium and cuck.

[C]

That was my line. Now I gotta find another one.

[B]

Another queer.

[D]

Another queer reference. I mean, that's not super that queer, but it's a little queer.

[C]

The other good Roman line, which I feel like sums up the whole episode, was in the beginning when he says to shit are your nips hard? They must be because you are so out in the cold.

[B]

The line which sticks with me. Just because of how rare it is at the end when Roman comes back to Logan and manages to get him off with a mere $20 million onto the divorce settlement. And he pats him on the cheek and he goes, good boy, good boy.

[C]

Like, he's a dog and he likes it.

[B]

Roman was he. And it's like, literally the best thing to happen to Roman in probably a decade.

[C]

They play out this whole. I mean, I feel like I'm not a child of divorce, but it instantly seems like this is what the children of divorce deal with for their whole lives. The parents are fighting over, and they use them as pawns. And at the end of the day, the kids know how to work that whole system to get the praise that they want. Like when Logan was laughing, when they were making fun of how little food the mom serves. Like, Kendall and Roman both started smiling, too, because they were so happy to make him laugh.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right.

[C]

And then sick dynamic.

[B]

And then Logan is, like, laughing at Roman's jokes when they're talking about Shiv's memo.

[C]

Yeah. Yes. That's when they're most happiest, is when they're, like, just stabbing each other.

[A]

They're in the bond over stabbing.

[B]

Okay, we're what? We're putting the concept of Siobhan on the table for general discussion.

[A]

You're tearing apart my sister's pious bullshit for your entertainment.

[C]

I had a dream like this once.

[B]

It's just good to ask some views. Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I think the twin quotes from Thomas Aquinas and Amelia Earhart really kick us off with a bang. Wow.

[A]

So many pictures. All the smiling children, all the various hues that melted the heart of even this hardened racist. This isn't a funny moment, but one that really stuck out to me, that I found incredibly poignant, is when Kendall washes his water glass and dries it. The home of the young man who died. That, to me, was like, wow.

[C]

I also. Yeah, I fixated on that, too, because you never see them doing anything remotely like that. Cleaning, cooking, anything. And this is the first time he's, like, wiping the glass with the rag. And he's so sad.

[A]

Yeah. You see?

[B]

He has feelings.

[D]

It's funny. It's a water glass. Right. How dirty could it be?

[B]

Right.

[C]

That's what I do. I would have just rinsed it.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Make sure.

[B]

Is that like a Lady Macbeth thing?

[A]

Oh, that's what I was gonna say. I mean, coming back to Candy's point about Oedipus and about, you know, the tragedy references, definitely thinking of macbeth and trying to. Or just trying to remove his DNA, which would presumably.

[D]

But Logan definitely ties him. Like, that's the whole point, right, of taking him. He's tied completely now to the family, thoroughly internally and externally.

[A]

I mean, that's what Logan says to him. We should stick together on this. You know, that's exactly the face that Emily is making.

[B]

Emily, yeah. Logan is a nasty piece of work.

[C]

He's a bad dad.

[A]

Bad dad. Bad dad.

[D]

Bad dude.

[A]

Bad mom. It's a bit late for home truths, isn't it?

[B]

That's a good line.

[A]

That was a very good line.

[B]

It is a good line, yeah.

[C]

Did you say your line?

[B]

Oh, yeah. That was just the finger.

[D]

There were so many lines. I have to say the whole, like, clam, you know, you go to the. The mom says, go to the Hamptons house to have clambakes with people who hate him. That, to me, is so revealing on so many levels about the dynamics between them, but also who Logan is in his core, which is a horrible person who can't differentiate and doesn't want to differentiate between love and fear and all the, you know, he has no emotional barometer.

[A]

Well, he literally says that at the beginning of the episode, right when he's standing with Marcia. He says, love, fear, whatever. She says, they still love you. And he says, love, fear, whatever. So that was a good framing moment. The other thing that related to the clambakes, you know, his former wife is clearly very posh, right?

[B]

She is about as posh as he can.

[A]

She's posh, right?

[B]

Most posh.

[A]

Ultra posh in that, you know, and the sort of echo with the Pierces in that. Right.

[B]

But it's a very different. It's not.

[A]

It's a very different. No, it's not waspy posh, it's not American posh, but it's like. Of lands that he has conquered, posh lands that he's conquered, and different types of poshness.

[B]

The weird thing that struck me is that these three kids are all English. I mean, they all have an English mum. They. They're obviously all, like, deeply familiar with England and the ways thereof, but they also all seem to just find it completely alien and strange. There's like. As someone who, you know, my mother was German. I go to Germany a lot, and I feel, you know, a little bit German. I don't. I'm not 100% comfortable there, but it's.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

I don't treat it like this bizarre, strange country, which is completely alien to me. In the way that, you know, Shiv and Roman are, like, walking around the grocery store going, what is this strange thing?

[A]

Strange Wartime food museum for wartime food.

[C]

I thought they were just being rich kids that don't go into, like. They never go to basic stores like that, you know?

[A]

No, I agree. But I think that, to me, that really pointed to, like, how firmly they had chosen sides. Right. And it's not like their father's American, but his life is. Or originally American life is.

[B]

But this is the difference with the Murdochs. Right. Who all are quite happily both American and Australian at the same time and embrace both sides.

[D]

Felix, how posh do you have to be to serve pigeon with buckshot in it? That's super. I mean, you have to be really posh to get away with that, I would think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So.

[D]

Or unposh. I don't know.

[B]

You would be surprised how, like. Like, easy it is to wind up getting served a piece of meat with shot in it in England. Because. Because it's. I mean, in. In it actually is. The right way to organize society is that if you kill animals, then you eat them. That's what you should do when you kill an animal. And in. In the United States, if you shoot an animal, you are allowed to eat it yourself, but you're not allowed to sell it to anyone. In England, you can shoot an animal and sell it to the butcher who will sell it at the market. And then. And so it's not.

[C]

That's all they'll be eating soon. Right after breakfast.

[B]

Exactly. It's not an ultra, ultra posh thing, but the idea of, like, if you haven't seen your kids in years and they're coming over and you're like, it has some shot in it. And the shot might have, like, passed through a feather as it was going in, so there might be a little bit of a feather inside. You're like, oh.

[A]

Oh. The other thing that I noticed about that scene was she doesn't offer them any wine. She brings the bottle of wine in. Her glass is still half full. There appears to be wine in the bottle that's sitting on the table. But she goes and gets another bottle and right next to herself and doesn't pass it around. It was just kind of an amazing moment. Yeah.

[C]

I thought she had finished an entire bottle of wine by herself because they show the kids glasses and they're empty.

[B]

The kids have wine glasses. They're just not drinking for whatever reason.

[C]

That's Kendall's thing.

[B]

They're not drinking.

[C]

Drinking.

[B]

Oh, drinking. Or both yeah, yeah. She's just. I mean, she's so gloriously watchable, the Mababo. Like, you can't.

[C]

Another older lady to put into the collection.

[B]

It is. It's just like, it's the most fab. You wrote that wonderful article about all of the amazing, like, you know, especially season two.

[C]

It's all about the women, all of.

[A]

These powerful old women.

[C]

We'll see what happens with Rhea, though. She'll be powerful by the end soon, next week.

[A]

I'm really excited to see what happens with Rhea because she has emerged as a villain to R. Logan.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[B]

She's the only one. She's the only one who can be as, like. Who can see as many moves ahead, who can be as cunning. Although even she, like, completely stepped in it with Nan and wound up, you know, having the garden, you know, hoe, like, smash up into her face.

[C]

I mean, Holly Hunter is just such an incredible actress because Shiv is buying what she's dishing out. But you could also see, watching her that it's totally fake.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I mean, totally disingenuous.

[B]

Just something she's so smart, where she's like, you know, I think I want to sleep with your dad, basically. And you're like, ooh. And she would do that just to sort of do a favor for Logan.

[C]

Right, right.

[B]

And it's so skeevy. Skeevy.

[A]

Well, my hope for the next episode is that it be a little bit more fun.

[B]

More jokes.

[A]

More jokes.

[B]

More jokes. Yeah.

[C]

Because, I mean, like, Connor. Where's Connor been?

[B]

Where's like. Yeah. How's his presidential campaign?

[C]

Take us to Iowa or something.

[B]

What's the title of the next episode? Jasmine? Because this is what Taffy says, right? Is you can.

[C]

There's clues in the title.

[B]

There's clues in the title.

[C]

Although if I'd seen our Jesties.

[B]

Yeah, our jesties. Who knows what?

[C]

Oh, P.S. someone who works at HuffPost has spotted an Arjestes T shirt out in the wild. So if anyone knows anything about Arjestes logoed T shirts, I would like to know about it. So please email us.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I've made some of my richest media contacts. Jesties.

[D]

As a non media person, that was a really. I kept asking Lydia. I was like, is that real? Like, what's it based on? The whole vest culture.

[A]

Oh, the vests are real. The vests are very real.

[D]

Yeah, that was a little bit. Talk about visual. I was like, oh, too many vests. Yeah, very vest.

[C]

$75 cob.

[B]

All right, Jessamine.

[C]

Dundee.

[B]

That was. That was mentioned. That was mentioned in the context of Logan's itinerary, when he, like, had to change his itinerary and suddenly fly to London. And they were like, blah, blah, blah. And they were like. They said something about. And then we'll just do Dundee after that and then Christchurch.

[C]

Christchurch.

[B]

But, like, you cannot get. Get two cities further away from each other than Dundee and Christchurch. They literally are on opposite sides of the planet. I'm assuming this is the Scottish Dundee.

[A]

I would think so, but that's not.

[B]

Going to be like the Ulsterman, because he's down in Chelsea.

[C]

I don't see the Ulsterman so bad.

[B]

Who is the Ulsterman? There are so many, like, mysterious things going on which they haven't answered yet. Like, who is the Ulsterman? Why does he own 4% of the company? And what is in Dundee and what is in Christchurch?

[A]

And what did he do in Ulster?

[C]

Yeah. We need to find out more about Logan's upbringing. Right. And what turned him out, how he turned out to be so.

[B]

Exactly. And how did he get those scars on his back?

[C]

Motionless and. Yeah. And twisted and scarred and bad. How did he turn so bad, particularly.

[A]

After such a gruesome episode that paints him in such a bad light? So.

[C]

Ooh, that's exciting.

[B]

Maybe it's gonna be like, you know, we'll start feeling sympathy for Logan when he goes up to Dundee and finds. Is he Scottish? Is Logan Scottish?

[C]

Well, Brian Cox is Scottish.

[D]

Right.

[B]

But I think. I mean, Logan is a good Scottish name, right?

[A]

Yeah, I think Logan is Scottish.

[B]

His brother was called Ewan. Right.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Logan and Ewan are two great Scottish names. So Dundee is going to be like old family. Ooh, yeah.

[C]

This is exciting.

[B]

Okay, so we get to find out some Logan backstory next episode, on which note, Candy, Lydia, thank you so much for coming in. We will be watching the next three episodes and then that's it for the season.

[A]

Wow.

[D]

Too soon.

[A]

Too soon.

[B]

Too soon.

[A]

Yeah.