Slate Money: Succession, S2E8, “L to the OG”

Summary

Slate Money: Succession S2E8, “L to the OG” – Detailed Episode Summary

Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, Felix Salmon (Axios), Emily Peck (HuffPost), and Gabe Roth (Slate) welcome guest Sarah Ellison (Washington Post) to break down episode 8 of Succession Season 2—famously known as the “L to the OG” episode, featuring Kendall’s infamous rap tribute to his father. The hosts explore the show's satirical look at intergenerational family drama, corporate intrigue, media machinations, and the rich tapestry of humiliation, manipulation, and power among the Roys. The discussion weaves in real-world media analogies (especially the Murdoch family), character arcs, and the episode’s blend of comedy and emotional tension.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kendall’s Highs, Lows, and The Rap (00:40–05:55, 21:59–23:54)

• The hosts note Kendall’s emotional pendulum: last episode he was visibly depressed, but now he swings to a manic high.
• Quote: "I’m drowning in pussy and everything’s golden." – Kendall, cited by Felix (03:34)
• Kendall’s new “relationship” is fleeting and symptomatic of his deep issues—hugely affected by Logan’s disapproval.
• The panel is both aghast and transfixed by Kendall’s "L to the OG" rap:
  • Quote: "It is burning my eyes but I cannot look away." – Emily (22:20)
  • The rap is compared to James Murdoch's real-world attempt at launching a hip-hop label in his youth (21:32), bringing an added layer of embarrassment and satire.
  • Felix recites some of the lyrics: "Born on the Northland, king of the east side... yo Ken wa!" (21:59)
  • The hosts agree: it’s both the most humiliating and revealing moment for Kendall—utterly cringy, willingly performed, and a sign of how broken he is.

2. The “Weasel” Lawsuit, Peter Thiel, and Ewan’s Role (06:13–10:05)

• The team draws parallels between the episode's lawsuit storyline and Peter Thiel's funding of Hulk Hogan’s case against Gawker.
• They suspect (and ultimately conclude) it's Ewan, Logan’s brother, bankrolling the crusade against Waystar Royco.
  • Quote: "It's hard to know which is more toxic, your news outlet or your cruise division. This is your fault, this empire of shit. Time to pay up." – Ewan (07:29)
• The irrational, scorched-earth tactics echo Thiel’s approach, aimed not at settlement but destruction.
  • Insight: Sarah and Felix remind that if you have enough money, you can destroy any media company via relentless lawsuits—an echo of real-world vulnerabilities.

3. Greg’s Inheritance and Loyalties (11:05–13:55)

• Ewan gives Greg an ultimatum: quit Waystar or lose a possible $250 million inheritance.
• Greg is conflicted: newfound wealth and status inside Waystar vs. the (uncertain) moral and financial security offered by his grandfather.
• The “attraction and revulsion” dynamic—being pulled toward and repulsed by Logan—hits Greg hard.
• Quote: "He has to negotiate his grexit." – Felix (12:36)

4. Rhea’s Seduction, Shiv’s Counterplay, and Female Rivalry (14:32–18:58, 23:33–25:31)

• Rhea expertly manipulates and neutralizes the Roy siblings by dispensing minor flattery and affection—echoing Logan’s methods.
• Shiv mobilizes a multifaceted campaign (with Marcia’s help) to undermine Rhea, culminating in the decision to let Rhea inherit the coming PR disaster as the next CEO.
  • Quote: "It's you." – Logan to Shiv, echoed later by Rhea to Kendall and Roman (14:32)
  • The group agrees Shiv’s strategy is (for once) effective: engineering Rhea’s “promotion” so she walks into a storm and neutralizing her as a rival.

5. Marcia’s Calculations and Power Games (23:33–25:31, 45:23–46:11)

• Marcia subtly sabotages Rhea, both in the “surprise” party planning (knowing Logan hates surprises) and by confronting her about sexually transmitted diseases.
  • Quote: "I have fought and I have lost, and I have fought and won, but when I lose, the other one will generally lose an eye." – Marcia (23:53)
• Discussion of Marcia’s possible real-life parallel: Wendy Murdoch, adept at manipulation and survival, but potentially heading for a future outside the inner circle.

6. Roman and Gerri: The Unlikely Pairing (25:41–27:22)

• Roman’s weird, possibly sexual, definitely codependent relationship with Gerri intensifies, featuring Roman's “marriage proposal” and talk of mutual destruction ("You eat me and I eat you, like they do in Germany." – Roman, 25:51)
• The hosts are both entertained and disturbed by their dynamic.

7. Logan’s Past, Mortality, and Scottish Roots (32:06–33:45, 46:00–49:00)

• The Dundee setting brings Logan face-to-face with childhood trauma: dead sister, absent mother, unclear class origins—echoing Citizen Kane’s “rosebud” motif.
• Quote: "The future is real, but the past is all made up." – Logan, summarized by Sarah (32:49)
• Visits to childhood haunts and the awkward family/board gathering amplify Logan’s denial of the past and fear of mortality.

8. Sharpest Insults & Favorite Lines (34:01–40:25)

• The group recaps their favorite zingers, marveling at the writers' talent.
  • Roman to Rhea: "You’re kind of like a peppy, fun gun set to MILF with, like, a lean in womany branding thing that works well with the Fitbit moron… whatever people." (34:07)
  • Shiv to Rhea: "A two-faced snowflake with cum on her dress." (39:41)
  • They agree that the insults are the essence of the show’s distinct humor and familial cruelty.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• Kendall’s Giddy Line (03:34): "I'm drowning in pussy and everything's golden."
• On the Gawker Analogy (09:25): "Peter Thiel has not just brought down Gawker, he's invented a mechanism by which you can bring down any media operation if you have enough money."
• On Roy Family Dynamics (14:14): "All he can do is exist in that sort of shadow." – Sarah on Kendall’s relationship with Logan
• Marcia’s Warning (23:53): "I have fought and I have lost, and I have fought and won, but when I lose, the other one will generally lose an eye."
• Roman’s Pitch to Rhea (34:07): "You’re kind of like a peppy, fun gun set to MILF with, like, a lean in womany branding thing that works well with the Fitbit moron…"
• On Facing Mortality (47:14): "The whole show, isn't it about...an old man who can't face dying?" – Gabe

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Important Segments (with Timestamps)

• 00:40–05:55 — The hosts introduce Sarah Ellison; discuss Kendall's state of mind and new relationship.
• 06:13–10:55 — The “Weasel” subplot; Peter Thiel and Gawker parallel; suspecting Ewan’s motives.
• 11:05–13:55 — Greg’s dilemma between inheritance and loyalty.
• 14:32–18:58 — Power plays: Rhea’s seduction of the Roy siblings; Shiv’s countermove.
• 21:59–23:54 — The full "L to the OG" rap scene and reactions.
• 23:33–25:31 — Marcia's calculated undermining of Rhea.
• 25:41–27:22 — Roman and Gerri's twisted mutual admiration.
• 34:01–40:25 — The best insults and comic highlights.
• 46:00–49:00 — Logan's reckoning with his past and mortality in Dundee.
• 49:00–end — Predictions for the next episodes; connecting real-life Murdoch parallels; setting up the next crisis.

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Tone & Takeaways

The hosts balance sharp media analysis with the show’s biting, wicked humor. Laughter at the Roy family’s foibles mixes with real insight into power, media, and legacy—plus loving appreciation for Succession’s world-class writing and acting.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Watched

This episode of the Slate Money Succession Recap delivers a rich breakdown of “L to the OG”—covering everything from its most excruciating moments (the rap!), to media industry analogies, to clever character psychology. The discussion unpacks the power struggles, generational pain, and humiliation rituals that define the Roy universe—with predictions and parallels relevant to media moguls in the real world.

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Bottom Line:
“L to the OG” is a dazzling mix of cringe comedy, searing insight into media/family dynamics, and Succession’s trademark wit—brilliantly dissected by the Slate Money panel for newcomers and superfans alike.

Transcript

[Felix Salmon]

The following podcast contains explicit language.

[Emily Peck]

Before we get into this episode, we have a big favor to ask. One of our advertisers is conducting a survey, and we would be very grateful for your help with answering a few of their questions. It will take less than 10 minutes of your time, and your participation helps our show, so go to slatestudy.com to complete the short survey now. Thank you. Hello, and welcome back to the Slate Money Succession recap podcast. After last week's dark and gloomy edition, we really hit our comedic stride this week. I'm Felix Salmon of Axios. I'm joined by Emily Peck of HuffPost.

[Gabe Roth]

Hello.

[Emily Peck]

I am joined by Gabe Roth of Slate.

[Felix Salmon]

Hello.

[Emily Peck]

And this is the episode I've really been waiting for, because this is the episode where we get joined by Sarah Ellison of the Washington Post, who knows everything about everything, but specifically about media.

[Sarah Ellison]

Indeed.

[Emily Peck]

And in fact, you wrote an entire book about Rupert Murdoch buying the Washington Post.

[Sarah Ellison]

The Wall Street Journal.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, the Wall Street Journal. You basically wrote an entire book about the last episode. Logan Roy buying Pierce.

[Sarah Ellison]

I did.

[Emily Peck]

Roy's buying the Pierces.

[Sarah Ellison]

I did. I'm so happy to be here. I feel like this is my true calling.

[Emily Peck]

This is your true calling. And I feel like we. Like, this is. It's quite sad. There are no Pierces in this episode.

[Gabe Roth]

It's true. The ghosts are there. And Kendall, what happened to Naomi, he's.

[Emily Peck]

Got this whole new lady, so let's start with that.

[Gabe Roth]

Oh, that's speaking of missing Pierces.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. Like, he was all up in the whole Naomi Pierce thing, and then she went off to Regent's park to go feed the ducks, and next thing you know, he's getting into some actress.

[Gabe Roth]

He's got Jennifer from the Sands.

[Felix Salmon]

He and Jennifer are on a psychosexual exploration.

[Sarah Ellison]

But, I mean, she's just going to be a. A blip, obviously.

[Gabe Roth]

No, she's gone.

[Sarah Ellison]

She's off already.

[Gabe Roth]

On the next plane.

[Emily Peck]

Off on the next plane. But the line about Jennifer came from Logan where he goes up to Shiv and he says, seen Kendall's latest Mind like a balloon. So, I mean, we may as well start there. Emily, hi. Do you have a theory on, like, is this symptomatic of Kendall just falling apart and totally not having it together?

[Gabe Roth]

Oh, I think this episode was really interesting for Kendall because he's quite cheerful and almost like in a manic thing.

[Emily Peck]

Because last episode he was clearly very depressive. And there's this big swing. Suddenly he's, like, grinning, like, when he smiles on drugs. He's obviously, when he smiles at Connor and he's like, I'm so happy. It's a genuine smile. He's genuinely happy.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right.

[Felix Salmon]

Hey. Hey. So it hasn't worn off, right? Like that was a century defining fuck.

[Gabe Roth]

Who is this again?

[Felix Salmon]

Jennifer. Jennifer. Alright, so what are we gonna do here? I feel like we should maybe buy an island, put in a giant island sized bed and just make love all day. You ever been to Dundee? You wanna come to Dundee?

[Sarah Ellison]

What about my play?

[Felix Salmon]

The play? I mean, it's like two nights off. Come on, it's not Arthur Miller. Right. And I kinda own a movie studio.

[Sarah Ellison]

Um, where is Dundee?

[Felix Salmon]

How about you look it up on your phone on the way to the airfield? Because I'm sending you a driver and I'm getting you a jet right over here tonight. I mean, there's a line he says near the beginning. Oh. To Connor, he says, I'm drowning in pussy and everything's golden. It makes you think he may not be on the drugs anymore. He may have be. He may be giving sex addiction a try.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah. Oh, I thought he would be working for Kendall. Well, that could be it. I just sort of thought like, oh, this is why he shouldn't go off drugs, because this is what he feels like when he's doing drugs and this is probably a really good place for him. And then you see the sort of deflated shell of a human he's become when his father doesn't like that his new girlfriend has said awesome twice in the course of one conversation and then it's all over for him.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah. And it was very funny of how the girlfriend Jennifer calls him out when they're walking down the hallway and there's all this like pieces from, you know, Logan's history. And she's like, you talk about your dad a lot. And it was just like very deflating, I think to him it was like a little puncture in his little balloon of unreality, basically. Cause that's what he's doing. He's just hiding from what he's done, which is manslaughter. I like to mention it every episode.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah. I think it's in the back of his mind all the time.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, except for maybe when he's having sex. I mean, who knows? I mean, this is not the broken robot of episode one.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right, Right.

[Emily Peck]

He was very broken last episode when his dad forced him to go into the house of the guy that he killed. And then like, yeah, he's just massively overcompensating and he doesn't really understand what he's doing. But he also, which has to be a part of it, gets to stick the knife a little bit into Connor by snatching away the actress from Connor's girlfriend's play just when it. When she needs the collect sands. What was that wonderful line of?

[Sarah Ellison]

This is the worst it will be.

[Gabe Roth]

He was really mean to his girlfriend, Kendall.

[Emily Peck]

Goes up to her and goes, that was. You're a playwright. Like, no one can think of a single good thing to say about the play. There are even, like, what is it like? Little maggots in the sand mites.

[Sarah Ellison]

Sand mites that are biting.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah Ellison]

Greg, who is maybe my favorite character of the entire.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, my gosh. So now I get it. So when he's complaining in Dundee about the midges biting, his sand might bite.

[Sarah Ellison]

That came from the play.

[Gabe Roth]

He goes up to Connor, he says, you know the sand in sands, I think there are creatures living in it. Indeed, thriving in it.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah, love that.

[Gabe Roth]

And he's itching. Greg was. We complained about him last episode, but he was really back and in it this time. Especially with his grandfather threatening to disinherit him.

[Emily Peck]

Ewan.

[Gabe Roth]

P.S. greg's gonna inherit a quarter of a billion dollars.

[Sarah Ellison]

Or is he?

[Emily Peck]

Or is he?

[Sarah Ellison]

Or is he? Because he's gonna have to choose between the.

[Emily Peck]

How much of that is in Waystar Royko. Which is apparently going to zero, because Ewan Roy is pulling a Peter Thiel.

[Gabe Roth]

Right? Wait, you all think that.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes.

[Sarah Ellison]

He's backing the weasel situation.

[Emily Peck]

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about what Peter Thiel did to Gawker, because this is clearly what the subtext of this entire episode is all about. Okay, Sarah.

[Sarah Ellison]

No, you go ahead. You seem to have a good handle on it. Cause I hadn't even thought of that until we walked in here. But the Peter Thiel Gawker situation was just that. The billionaire Peter Thiel was funding Hulk Hogan's lawsuit.

[Emily Peck]

So what happened is that. Yeah, yeah, I need to jump in here because it was. Yeah, it was secret. Like, this one's clearly less secret. I think Ewan is not trying to keep it secret at all.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, if we were at a Silicon Valley party with Peter Thiel, we would feel like it wasn't secret. But we have the benefit in this situation of being inside the party.

[Gabe Roth]

How can you be so sure it's Ewan? Just cause he made that crack about cruises?

[Emily Peck]

No. Yeah, because he made the crack about cruises at the end.

[Gabe Roth]

Really? Cause I was thinking maybe it's Stewie. And the.

[Emily Peck]

The final line.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, it did seem like Stewie. That was my first thought. Who's funding this? Oh, okay. But then when he comes in at.

[Emily Peck]

The very end, Ewan's final line is, he says, it's hard to know which is more toxic, your news outlet or your cruise division. This is your fault, this empire of shit. Time to pay up.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah, you're right. That was. I did this to you.

[Emily Peck]

And. And you need to read that in the light of what Jerry had said, which is Basically, we threw $20 million at this weasel, and he didn't blink.

[Sarah Ellison]

There's no point.

[Emily Peck]

Someone is funding him and everyone. And then Sid is like, well, open the phone book. There's any number of people who would want to bring Logan down. But I think that was just Ewan basically coming out and telling Logan, I'm doing this. I think he thought that Logan knew about it, but Logan's only gonna find out about it tomorrow.

[Gabe Roth]

Right.

[Emily Peck]

But in any case, the story very quickly, the Hulk Hogan story, is that Hulk Hogan sued Gorka because they published a tape of him having sex. And it wasn't a particularly likely lawsuit to win. It didn't have a lot of legal standing. And Gorka tried to settle with him and offered him a bunch of relatively generous settlements, which, given the. The likelihood of him winning, any normal lawyer and any normal plaintiff would automatically take that. And he kept on saying no, and he kept on jurisdiction shopping, and he kept on spending more and more money on lawyers. And everyone on the Gorkut side of things was like, this doesn't make any sense. He's behaving incredibly irrationally, especially when he would drop cases that were insured just to make sure that if they paid, it would have to hurt them. And this is exactly what they're referencing here in this episode is that the weasel is not behaving rationally. The rational thing to do would be to take the $20 million. And what he's doing is he's trying to bring down the company.

[Felix Salmon]

This goes back to a piece that I remember you wrote about Peter Thiel at the time, where you said, peter Thiel has not just brought down Gawker, he's invented a mechanism by which you can bring down any media operation if you have enough money. You can now bankroll enough lawsuits and refuse to settle that. You can now destroy any media company if you're a. And that's what's happening in this show.

[Gabe Roth]

But Ewan's money comes from his brother and comes from the company, Waystar.

[Sarah Ellison]

Royco.

[Gabe Roth]

Am I mistaken?

[Emily Peck]

But he might well have sold it, funding his own downfall, put it all into, like, treasury bills.

[Sarah Ellison]

At this point, I'm a little bit. I'd like to know what your theory is on how Greg. How his ultimatum to Greg fits into this situation.

[Emily Peck]

He wants Greg to get out before he brings down the company.

[Sarah Ellison]

Is that what it is? He wants to protect him.

[Felix Salmon]

Well, then he's on a crusade. You're either with me or you're with Logan.

[Emily Peck]

Right.

[Felix Salmon]

And if you're working with Logan, then you're not with me anymore.

[Gabe Roth]

And what do we make of brother Ewan crossing the birds out of little Logan's notebook? Is that just this where all this started is because Logan just wanted a bird watch. He just wanted to find the thrushes.

[Sarah Ellison]

He was lying, but he was inflating his. He was already messing with the reality of how many birds.

[Gabe Roth]

So it all starts there.

[Sarah Ellison]

I want to get to the truth.

[Emily Peck]

Ewan is the purist. He's like, you don't write down a bird unless you genuinely saw that bird.

[Gabe Roth]

And this is all coming to ruse now.

[Sarah Ellison]

50.

[Emily Peck]

I have a question, though, which is how did Ewan get to Dundee?

[Sarah Ellison]

Ewan did fly to Dundee.

[Gabe Roth]

I bet he's like, the environment. Is he like Greta Thunder?

[Emily Peck]

But don't you remember in season one that he winds up, like, Greg has to drive him because he doesn't survive?

[Sarah Ellison]

Right, right, right.

[Emily Peck]

And then Greg tries to talk to him, and he's like, shut up. Don't talk to me. And Greg is desperately trying to talk to him because Greg knows that, like, he needs to get in with his grandfather if he's going to wind up inheriting any of his money, and Ewan is having none of it. And now Ewan is like, oh, yeah, you stand to inherit 250 million. And it's. Whoa. Because Greg. I mean, the whole. The whole story arc of Greg for the first, you know, one and three quarter seasons is that he doesn't have any money. And now he's like, wait, I have $250 million coming to me, like, the minute you carc it.

[Gabe Roth]

Yet it seems like Greg is reluctant to quit.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, this is the whole. This is. The major thing in the whole show is, like, attraction and revulsion at the same time all around Logan Roy. And so you see this. What I loved about this episode is that we all knew that it was true for all of the children and the executives. But now you see Rhea being drawn into it and being humiliated in exactly the same way that anyone who Comes into his orbit, is humiliated, basically, after five minutes of being in his presence and getting close to him. And so I think that the Greg thing, that he would even hesitate, that he wouldn't even just be like, okay, $250 million to get away. I mean, he's already had crimes. He's already.

[Emily Peck]

What's he going to live on?

[Felix Salmon]

He quits in the bathroom. He goes up to Logan in the bathroom. He says, it's been a pleasure doing business with you, but now I have to take my leave.

[Gabe Roth]

He has to negotiate his grexit.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes, exactly.

[Emily Peck]

That was a good laugh.

[Felix Salmon]

And Logan can't let him do it. Not because he loves Greg so much or Greg is such a valuable employee, but because if Greg quits in order to go with Uncle Ewan, then Lohan's lost a point in the battle against somebody else.

[Emily Peck]

But also, Greg is genuinely conflicted. And the reason is financial. He has that, like, swanky office now. He has a nice six figure salary. He is comfortable in a way that, you know, when we first meet him in season one, he's like throwing up in the inside of a. In a suit, you know, animal suit. And now for the first time in his life, he feels like he's got his foot on a rung of the ladder. And he knows on some level that he doesn't deserve that. And so he knows that if he quits, he's gonna have to find an actual job somewhere else. And there's no actual.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right. But it has to be less than. I mean, it's not just financial because he's also.

[Emily Peck]

Emily's like, yeah, he's also destruct.

[Sarah Ellison]

He's also destroyed evidence. And he knows. I mean, he gives himself this whole pep talk in terms, you know, last season about going to prison and being. I mean, he's really deep in this. And you would think that. I mean, I think there's more working in his mind than just the paycheck.

[Emily Peck]

No. I think at some point, he winds up teaming up with Ewan and the Weasel and coming out and fighting on, you know, the white hat side against the evil Logan Roy empire. That's kind of inevitable, right? He becomes like, Logan's enemy and giving evidence against Logan.

[Gabe Roth]

I feel like in terms of the attraction and repulsion, we saw Logan do this in the bathroom where he says to Greg, like, I really like you. You know, and there's something really like, they love seductive. It's seductive. Exactly. And we see Rhea doing it to Kendall and Roman. Right. You know, I.

[Felix Salmon]

She says to Kendall, exactly what Logan said to Shiv. It's you.

[Gabe Roth]

It's always and it.

[Sarah Ellison]

But she also says it to. She also says it to Roman. To Roman.

[Gabe Roth]

And it absolutely works. It neutralizes the brothers. Shiv can't get them to do anything in this episode. And it works.

[Emily Peck]

I think Logan and Greg, she gets Kendall to pull that rose.

[Gabe Roth]

All she can achieve is like, some low level, like, hazing. But she can't. She can't. They're so toxic, and they don't know how to love each other, and they cannot even team up.

[Emily Peck]

Like, she just disagree. I disagree. Okay, Sarah, why do you. First, why do you.

[Sarah Ellison]

What I love about the way that this is all unfolding is that they aren't beating you over the head with the fact that the kids are so easily played, but they are so all easily played. Just like a tiny little bone of affection from pretty much anyone. And they are all in. So, you know, obviously, the fact that Rhea can even just throw these minor. They know that she's a snake and that she's manipulated Shiv and she's already screwed her. So the fact that they both are kind of like, well, why is she so bad in the end?

[Gabe Roth]

You know?

[Sarah Ellison]

And it's a little. It's not actually not that subtle, but it feels to me like they let it play out in a way that is very satisfying because you realize that these kids are just so desperate for attention.

[Emily Peck]

I disagree.

[Sarah Ellison]

Please do it.

[Emily Peck]

I'm gonna take the other side of this, which is that what we saw here was, like, it was kind of the Avengers vs. Thanos kind of thing that we, like, everyone started attacking Rhea in a different way. And each of the attacks, like, didn't mortally wound her, but in aggregate, she was very alone and had no real support. And, you know, Marcia comes up, Kendall does the. You know, hecaps her with the toast. Like, Shiv obviously does her, like, really cunning little thing about, oh, she doesn't drink. And all of this actually works. This is my theory. All of this actually works in terms of persuading Logan that he's. He should not trust her or appoint her as CEO. And he's sitting down at dinner with Shiv, and he goes, it's you. And Shiv, like, feels it that it's gonna be her. And then Gerri calls the we're all fucked committee. What did she call it?

[Gabe Roth]

What the fuck are we gonna do? Committee.

[Emily Peck]

What the fuck are we gonna do? Committee. And Jerry does this thing, and it's a little bit of a MacGuffin. Jerry does this thing where she says whoever the next CEO is, is gonna get, you know, a huge amount of egg on their face and it's gonna wind up like, basically being set up to fail. And Shiv is like, I can take this job. I can be the next CEO. We have weakened Rhea to the point at which Logan will appoint me instead of Rheya. But I don't want it because I know what's happening. Rhea doesn't know about this, you know, the weasel. So I'm going to just let her whisper in my father's ear, say, oh, you know, it's Rhea. Let him appoint Rhea, Let Rhea walk into the shitstorm, let Rhea take all of the blame, and then Shiv can come in post shitstorm if there's anything left.

[Gabe Roth]

That's my question. First of all, is it so bad? Rhea has nothing to do with what has happened at the company in the past. So, yeah, she'll become CEO and have to face a shitstorm, but she's not personally responsible for any of the shitstorms. So really, is it so bad for.

[Emily Peck]

Her to be the CEO? That was why I called it a bit of a MacGuffin.

[Sarah Ellison]

But, I mean, I think once you enter into the. I mean, she's going to compromise herself once she's in that role.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes.

[Sarah Ellison]

Poison chowder. Yeah. This is what it is. Like, once you get inside, you've got probably already, you know, sold your soul in a million different ways. So I don't think it's gonna matter that she personally wasn't there. But one of my favorite moments was when Logan is sitting there with Shiv and he sort of is trashing Rhea and he says to her, but you get it. You get it.

[Felix Salmon]

You fucking get it.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah, you fucking get it. He's like, she's blue. And she's like, but I am too. But you fucking get it. You fucking get it. And it was like, that's the most real affection that I've seen in the entire show.

[Emily Peck]

She's got my contacts and everyone, everyone is here and I didn't know it's safe. Yeah, she's blue, you know?

[Sarah Ellison]

Uh huh.

[Emily Peck]

She's liberal. Oh, yeah. But so am I. Yeah, but you fucking get it. You fucking get it. You know, I mean, she told me she drank. I shared a whiskey with her.

[Sarah Ellison]

Mm.

[Emily Peck]

Prick tease.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, we don't use that anymore.

[Emily Peck]

I know, I know. Those sort of usual fucking words have gone that way. I'm worried. Is it. Have I got it right? Cause you're smart. You are smart.

[Felix Salmon]

And yet in fact, what he's saying, what he's talking about when he says, you fucking. Yeah, you're a liberal, but you fucking get it.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah.

[Felix Salmon]

He's referring to all the times she's humored him.

[Gabe Roth]

Yes.

[Felix Salmon]

He's referring to all the times when he said something racist.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yes.

[Felix Salmon]

And she's been like, oh, okay, dad, whatever. Right.

[Sarah Ellison]

Cause then they have this conversation like, you can't. You can't say anything.

[Emily Peck]

Exactly.

[Sarah Ellison]

Exactly.

[Felix Salmon]

Right. It's the degree to which she fucking gets it.

[Sarah Ellison]

She gets it because she gets him. And she's willing to kind of twist herself into whatever.

[Emily Peck]

And you're right, that that's genuine affection in, like, contrast. And we have to go there. To the ridiculous, over the top, fake, you know, affection of Kendall's rap to his dad.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, my God.

[Emily Peck]

L. To the og.

[Sarah Ellison]

Talk about itching.

[Gabe Roth]

What is going on? Do we believe that Kendall would do this? This is totally.

[Sarah Ellison]

This is obviously a direct reference, of course, to James Murdoch's early career at Raucous Records at Raucous Records, where he was. I mean, this is James back when he had. Was still at Harvard and started a record label with friends of his that was a kind of hip hop label. And it was his own little rebellion about how he was gonna have an earring and a tattoo and be his own little person. And then, of course, it lasted for maybe five minutes and his father bought the company. So, I mean, that was just so satisfying to watch. This entire. I could. I almost couldn't watch it. It was so embarrassing and such a uncomfortable moment. But it was. I mean, there was. It was even more of a direct reference than the Hulk Hogan thing. It was like. There was that. James did that. He started his own.

[Emily Peck]

I don't think he ever actually rapped.

[Sarah Ellison]

Did he perform? Literally?

[Felix Salmon]

If he did, would we know about it? Like, might he have rapped at some kind of secret surprise party?

[Emily Peck]

I want to believe that when he was at. I'm gonna have to go back to the tapes and see, like, whether James Murdoch raps when he was at Harvard.

[Gabe Roth]

I wish someone would leak that to us. Please email us. It's late Monday.

[Emily Peck]

If you have any tapes of James Murdoch rapping in the early 90s at Harvard, please send them to slatemoneylate.com My.

[Felix Salmon]

Boy squiggle cooked up this beat for me. Check it. Born on the Northland king of the east side 50 years strong now he's rolling in a sick rod Handmade suits, raking in loot Five star general, y' all best salutes Yo. Ken wa.

[Emily Peck]

It is burning my eyes but I cannot look away L To.

[Felix Salmon]

The OG dude be the OG A.

[Emily Peck]

And he playing.

[Felix Salmon]

Playing like a pro C Out.

[Emily Peck]

Be the OG A and he playing.

[Gabe Roth]

That was just a wonderful scene. I mean, speaking of Kendall being, like, high and manic and just like, I don't want to say back on his game, but sort of recovered from his malaise, right? I mean, he was just. He was really happy and into it, wasn't he?

[Sarah Ellison]

He's happy because it was all in service of his father. It was. All he can do is exist in that sort of shadow. And he's obviously got nothing. I mean, his whole. Just the contrast between the last. He's back on his game, but he's.

[Gabe Roth]

It's a bad game.

[Sarah Ellison]

He's just a toy of the game.

[Emily Peck]

You know who's on their game?

[Sarah Ellison]

Marcia.

[Emily Peck]

Marcia.

[Sarah Ellison]

Marcia.

[Emily Peck]

You know I'm obsessed with Marcia, right? You know that.

[Sarah Ellison]

Like, I mean, I am too, but I wouldn't know.

[Emily Peck]

The big breakout star of Succession Season 2 is clearly Jerry. But for me, it's always been Marcia. And for me, I'm so.

[Sarah Ellison]

Can't wait for next week.

[Emily Peck]

I'm so into what Marcia managed to pull that wonderful thing where she pulls Rhea aside and she's like, have you been treated for safety transmitted? Have you been tested for safety transmitted diseases? And Rhea just, like, she has no idea what she just stammered.

[Gabe Roth]

And what was the quote she said about, I win and I lose.

[Sarah Ellison]

I have fought and I have lost, and I have fought and won, but when I lose, the other one will generally lose an eye.

[Gabe Roth]

Lose an eye, right?

[Sarah Ellison]

And then Reyes, like, you go, I mean, get it. Oh, I'm so excited about that.

[Emily Peck]

She has. Yeah.

[Gabe Roth]

So she. I mean, she still is losing right now, right? I mean, she's bored.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh.

[Gabe Roth]

Just to make clear.

[Sarah Ellison]

I don't know.

[Gabe Roth]

I feel like so far, I'm not impressed by anything.

[Felix Salmon]

Well, so I feel like next week or in the future episodes, if she's really walked out, we get to see what Marcia's actually been doing. Like, what falls apart when Marcia is gone.

[Emily Peck]

But Also, Marcia was 100% down with Shiv's assassination attempt on Rhea. So there was that wonderful line where they're talking to each other, and Shiv is like, you allowed Marcia to organize the party? And Marcia just looks at her and says, rhea thought it would be nice. It was like she knows. Marcia knows better than anyone that the one thing that Logan hates more than anything else is a surprise party. And Marcia just lets Rhea walk Straight into that, you know, because she wants to see Rhea implode. And between the surprise party, which Logan hates, and, you know, toads.

[Gabe Roth]

That was one of my favorite scenes. When they say surprise and he just turns.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, fuck.

[Emily Peck]

And walks out.

[Gabe Roth]

I love that so much. And Marshall's the one who talks him into going back, by the way, for more.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right, right. Can we have.

[Emily Peck]

Here we go. If she wants to throw him a big surprise party, who am I to spoil it?

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah, that's good. While we're just talking about favorite characters and Marcia, the Jerry and Roman situation.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, my God. And the Declaration. Like the marriage proposal.

[Sarah Ellison]

The marriage proposal. And the variety of ways that he does explain what they're going to do.

[Emily Peck]

What he means by marriage.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right. You eat me and I eat you. Like they do in Germany.

[Gabe Roth]

Is that what happens in Germany, Felix?

[Emily Peck]

I mean, every time I go to Germany, I do a little bit of auto cannibalism. Oh, and one more thing real quick.

[Sarah Ellison]

Should we get married?

[Felix Salmon]

What about that?

[Sarah Ellison]

Like an equivalent of a thing. Like I abduct you and force you to live with me.

[Gabe Roth]

That's not equivalent.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, then you kill me. You chop my dick off. You know something? I'm kidding. But you know what I'm saying. You eat me, I eat you. Like they do in Germany. Anyway, a lot to think about. I get it. That is one of my favorite. I wouldn't even call it a side plot. It's like the soul of the whole thing. They're gonna.

[Gabe Roth]

Okay. Another thing we learned. I feel like we learned a lot about Logan this episode. Another thing is possibly that Jerry was once his.

[Sarah Ellison]

His thing.

[Gabe Roth]

They once had a thing.

[Sarah Ellison]

She was the new new thing.

[Gabe Roth]

She was the new new thing. And Roman is only slightly troubled by that. That doesn't deter him from anything.

[Felix Salmon]

She's intrigued.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah. I think it ups her appeal in his eye.

[Felix Salmon]

You think he ever boned Jerry?

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah, he's delighted by that.

[Felix Salmon]

He loves the idea.

[Gabe Roth]

Okay.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. No, Roman is clearly, you know, the only thing that he is actually sexually attracted to is the worst thing, you know, the most humiliating thing, the most disgusting thing.

[Sarah Ellison]

Can pretend you're dead.

[Emily Peck]

And if I wind up with, like, my dad's sloppy seconds, that's, like, even more disgusting and makes it even, you know, more sexually appealing to him.

[Gabe Roth]

Yes. He cherishes the depravity. That's correct.

[Sarah Ellison]

That's it.

[Gabe Roth]

I also wanna know who Sally Ann is and why Logan bought her a harp. What is going on there? They keep talking about it.

[Sarah Ellison]

Did that come up more than that was a good catch.

[Felix Salmon]

Didn't even play the harp.

[Gabe Roth]

And I guess. Could we talk about Shiv? I feel like this is our comeback episode.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes. This was the first smart, successful play that she had made in all of season two. I feel like the master arc of season two is, in season one, Shiv is set up as, like, the competent person who's gotten out of the family and is now having a proper career as a person who can actually do stuff. And at the beginning of season two, by sort of tapping her on the shoulder and saying, it's you, all of that crumbles. And Logan just brings her in. And all of a sudden she's incompetent and flailing and fucking up all the time. And that's what she's been doing right up until the end when she makes this play by getting Rhea, handing Rhea the poison sh. And we'll see if that turns out to be a smart play or not. But it's the first not flailing thing that she's done.

[Gabe Roth]

And one thing I thought was interesting was how she was dressed in this episode from the time she's promised the job. She starts wearing the full turtlenecks and the suits and all this. But in this episode where she's trying to mount her comeback, we see a lot more of Shiv's skin. Like, she wears turtlenecks dresses in two different scenes, but they're backless. And we see, like, she's just not as buttoned up anymore. It's like they're dressed her to be more free.

[Emily Peck]

And she has that great line where she goes, I don't want to put a damper on Rhea's celebrations or anything, but it's time we killed her dead. Smash her skull in with a rock. And you're like, okay, all right. Yeah. And you don't want to go up against Shiv wanting to smash your skull in with a rock because she has rocks.

[Sarah Ellison]

But I do think that the whole. I mean, what brings all of them down is proximity to Logan. So this is Shiv's fun period because she's pushing Rhea into the sun. And then we'll see what happens when she actually. I mean, I don't think I actually feel like it's sort of nothing personal with Logan Roy. But once you get sucked in, you then become tainted and he abuses you. And it's only a matter of time before you're humiliated, Bore on the floor and cast aside. Bore on the floor. I mean, that reference was, you know, it was good to remind everyone what.

[Gabe Roth]

Happens Is there anything to be said about Marcia and, like, Rupert Murdoch's various wives and any. I don't know. He references all. Logan references all his wives.

[Sarah Ellison]

All his wives, yeah. I mean, I think that the. It'll depend on what Marcia ends up eventually doing. But if Marcia is the sort of Wendy Murdoch of this show, which it seems like that's who she would be.

[Gabe Roth]

She was his third. Second.

[Sarah Ellison]

Third. Third. Wendy was his third. She'll become abusive and eventually, I mean, if we're being really literal, then her sons will establish and create a dossier on all the things that she's done. She'll have an affair with various world leaders, maybe is somehow a spy, and will eventually be cast out and become a movie producer.

[Emily Peck]

Who's James and Lachlan's mother?

[Sarah Ellison]

Anna. Anna Torv. As the. I mean, the first. Yeah. So the Connor character is actually the oldest daughter who is, in some ways.

[Emily Peck]

Prudence.

[Sarah Ellison]

Prudence. Thank you, Prue. And then Anna has Lachlan, James and Liz.

[Emily Peck]

Right.

[Sarah Ellison]

And then Wendy has Grace and Chloe.

[Emily Peck]

Right.

[Sarah Ellison]

And then obviously Jerry is not. There's no more children. Jerry Hall.

[Emily Peck]

Jerry hall has her own kids. They're just not by routine.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right. It's a little bit Brady Bunch situation.

[Emily Peck]

With them, but, like. But there is this interesting subplot of, like, Connor running out of money where, like, you know, you have Roman buying a football team on a whim. You have Kendall. The wrong one.

[Sarah Ellison]

The wrong one.

[Emily Peck]

Kendall. Kendall, you know, sending jets and clearly not having any money worries. And Connor, who, you know, we remember his massive pad in New Mexico and the fact that he bought out, like, an entire hotel and all the rest of it, suddenly seems to have woken up without any money. I know that Broadway productions can be expensive, but, like, something.

[Felix Salmon]

Well, he's also running a presidential campaign. Right. He says, I'm fighting on two fronts. He's bankrolling a Broadway play that's gonna be a complete failure, and he's running a presidential campaign. Those consultants in his living room, right.

[Emily Peck]

Those are expensive, funneling money.

[Sarah Ellison]

Another great moment was when they're at Logan Roy's childhood home, and Connor says, I mean, I would totally live here. I mean, I wouldn't. But somebody could because it's like they don't know. I mean, they would never be able actually stomach a kind of regular middle class.

[Gabe Roth]

Also, re Connor, the first pancake.

[Sarah Ellison]

The first pancake.

[Gabe Roth]

The first pancake.

[Emily Peck]

That's a great line.

[Gabe Roth]

Apparently his mother was sent to an asylum or something.

[Felix Salmon]

Did you catch that? Yes. Booby hatch.

[Emily Peck]

Yep.

[Sarah Ellison]

Are There.

[Gabe Roth]

Real world parallels there too. Yeah. They said something just like, oh, poor Connor's mom. Yeah.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, I don't know actually about the first. First one.

[Emily Peck]

But then. Yeah, but Connor, like. Yeah, Connor's definitely just.

[Gabe Roth]

Something's gonna happen.

[Emily Peck]

There's a weird line, weird plot when he comes out with that line about, sometimes I think I'll never truly understand dad until I shit outside. You're like, what?

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah, that was a running theme throughout the episode. Did Logan actually shit outside or is it just myth or is it his sort of.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, what? In his line? I mean, I don't know how to make his. Logan's discussion. What did he say? That the future is real, but the past is all made up.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah, I love that.

[Sarah Ellison]

And his rosebud was, you know, whatever the fuck it took to get me out of here. His sister. That he somehow feels responsible for her death.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. And where you. And actually, that wasn't your fault.

[Gabe Roth]

Right. What's wonderful about the show is, like, I heard this said on someone else's podcast, so I'm ripping someone else off, but they don't really fill in the blanks. You know, there's no cheesy flashbacks to tell you exactly what happened to Logan and his child. We just have all these little delectable clues about a dead sister, about a mother dying when he's just 4 years old, about how they left Dundee. But we don't know what the circumstances were or what happened, or we really don't know anything. But it's so fun to get the little clues. It almost makes you want to fill in a backstory.

[Felix Salmon]

You know, we got a lot of good clues in this one.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah.

[Felix Salmon]

All the Scotland stuff. And the girl who didn't even play the harp.

[Gabe Roth]

Yes.

[Sarah Ellison]

I feel like you think she's the key to.

[Felix Salmon]

She's the rose. But that harp is the rose.

[Sarah Ellison]

But it could be.

[Emily Peck]

Okay, Emily, what's your favorite line?

[Gabe Roth]

Oh.

[Sarah Ellison]

There'S so many. I do. Who writes the insults? Who writes the insults? I do want to know that.

[Gabe Roth]

But anyway, I don't want to just, oh, I know. This is Roman to Rhea when he's admiring her and he says, you're kind of like a peppy, fun gun set to MILF with, like, a lean in womany branding thing that works well with the Fitbit moron. Whatever, people.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, my God, that was brilliant.

[Emily Peck]

Fun gun set to milf. Fungun set to milf. All right, Gabe.

[Felix Salmon]

God, Tacitus. Just all killer. No filler with that.

[Emily Peck]

Like, yeah. Greg's complete inability to make conversation with anyone is like, where. Like, is that.

[Felix Salmon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Peck]

I mean, even Tom, where he has that bizarre, like, not quite sexual relationship, and you're like, oh, can I just mention about Tom, please?

[Felix Salmon]

Sure.

[Emily Peck]

This one really jumped out at me for the. Was. This is the first time in succession, like, seasons one and two, where Tom wears a not shit suit. Remember how, like, that whole dinner party where they were making fun of him of, like, looking like a Midwestern briefcase, and. And suddenly he rocks up in Dundee, and it's like, well fitting, comfortable, good, expensive looking. And I'm like, ooh, wait, Tom's looking good all of a sudden. Like, the Tom fashion choice is, like, not shit.

[Felix Salmon]

And also, he pins Shiv down when he sees her with the actor at the opening night, and he makes her uncomfortable. Yeah. Tom is coming up.

[Gabe Roth]

I was so unimpressed with Shiv in that moment because she could have handled the whole. She made it so obvious.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah, she obviously has it on her.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah. She could have just played that so.

[Sarah Ellison]

Much better because she had an entire affair that she was able to.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah, she had that hide quite easily until the end.

[Sarah Ellison]

Until her wedding.

[Gabe Roth]

But otherwise. Yeah, but still, I thought she could have done a lot better.

[Sarah Ellison]

I agree.

[Gabe Roth]

And also, Tom defending Rhea was, I thought, unusual. Cause usually they're such a team, the two of them, Tom and Shiv. But he says to her, like, maybe it's good for me.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, he's always been, it's not gonna be kind of. It's obviously not gonna be good for him. But he is. He was taken aback when she was. You know, when Logan said she was gonna be the next one. He's like, oh, I thought we were in it for. I thought it was gonna be me. And so I think he's always. I mean, I think, like, all of them, he's not really concerned about anybody else.

[Gabe Roth]

It's not really true love with Shiv.

[Sarah Ellison]

I don't think so.

[Emily Peck]

I can't quite choose. I really love when Roman refers. Like when Kendall starts his rap and. And Roman refers to him as Ken Wa.

[Gabe Roth]

Yes.

[Emily Peck]

But I think the one that really stuck with me was Logan just looking with a look of sheer disdain at his son and going, maybe you're fucking right. How would I know what team I supported all my fucking life? Maybe I support Kilmarnock.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right. I can't. The disdain. It's dripping. It's dripping.

[Emily Peck]

And, like, Edward just sidles away. He's like, okay, yeah, I'm out, I'm out, I'm out.

[Gabe Roth]

I guess he's not gonna bail them out.

[Emily Peck]

Who knows, man?

[Gabe Roth]

In the Kendall rap, which I've watched several times now. Cause I record on my.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, my God. The reaction shots to the Kendall.

[Gabe Roth]

They flash to him a lot, being.

[Sarah Ellison]

Like, what is this? What is this? And the rest of the board, the rest of the kind of executives who are just mute when they're supposed to do og, they were not playing along at all. Now, that was. I mean, it was maybe the most humiliating moment of the whole series. I think maybe even more than boar on the floor. Because it was not as overt and.

[Felix Salmon]

Because he was willingly participating.

[Sarah Ellison]

He wanted it.

[Felix Salmon]

This is how much you've broken this man, is that he's willingly getting up and doing this in front of everyone he knows. Just horrible.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

[Gabe Roth]

He's had quite a. I mean, he did shit his bed also this season. Like, it's just been one humiliation after the next.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah, maybe that is more humiliating.

[Emily Peck]

Not to mention the humiliation of, like, being dragged into the house of the kid who you killed. I mean, like, yeah, Kendall.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, that wasn't humiliating as much as it was humiliating torture.

[Gabe Roth]

That was torture.

[Sarah Ellison]

A psychological punishment and torture. But rightly so. I mean, it wasn't like, oh, we're gonna be so mean to you because you're gonna have to face the fact that you killed someone. That seems appropriate.

[Felix Salmon]

It's appropriate in that he's coming face to face with the consequences of his actions.

[Emily Peck]

But.

[Felix Salmon]

But Logan was doing it in revenge for Kendall challenging him on rail. Right.

[Emily Peck]

It's when also in revenge for Kendall daring to date Naomi.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes. For all of his L' est Majeste. He's not doing it as a moral instruction.

[Sarah Ellison]

He's not saying, I think it's important for you to understand the consequences of your actions. No, he's doing it. It's like, don't fucking tell me I can't sleep with this.

[Felix Salmon]

Exactly.

[Sarah Ellison]

Right.

[Emily Peck]

Are they sleeping with each other? I mean, Logan and Rand, he calls.

[Gabe Roth]

Her a prick tease, but I guess he just meant that about the drinking.

[Felix Salmon]

But prick would suggest that they're not sleeping.

[Gabe Roth]

That's what I thought. Yeah, that's what. I wasn't sure why he was saying.

[Sarah Ellison]

Prick to you, but when he asks her to sleep over and she says, oh, I wasn't expecting that. Aren't we assuming that that's already happened? He's going out to dinner with her four times a week. I mean, this is.

[Gabe Roth]

I mean, it's succession. No one has sex, so we don't know.

[Emily Peck]

It is True. No one does have sex.

[Sarah Ellison]

Except for Kendall and. Yeah, except the Kendall and thank God.

[Gabe Roth]

We didn't have to see that.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, right, yeah. No, no one wants to see Kendall having sex.

[Gabe Roth]

Literally no one would rather see him rapping.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah.

[Sarah Ellison]

This is awesome.

[Emily Peck]

Sarah, what was your favorite line?

[Sarah Ellison]

I had so many. I think a two faced snowflake with cum on her dress. From shiv to Raya. I thought that was quite good. And the other one was, look at you fitting right in. Like a camp counselor in my butt when I was 12.

[Gabe Roth]

That was good.

[Sarah Ellison]

So I think that he really, Roman really has a good. Somebody's writing good stuff for him.

[Emily Peck]

This is the Iannucci DNA man. Like no one on television writes those kind of lines.

[Gabe Roth]

If you took the insults out of the show, would there be a show?

[Sarah Ellison]

I don't think so.

[Emily Peck]

No.

[Gabe Roth]

There's nothing else.

[Sarah Ellison]

It's the most redeeming thing that they know how to do is really come up. It's brilliant.

[Gabe Roth]

That's what you did to Rhea was like bringing her into the family. Like, yeah, they humiliated her. But it was like, now you're one of us.

[Felix Salmon]

If you took the comic insults out, would it be billions? I feel like it might be billions.

[Emily Peck]

But the way that you can tell that Rhea is not part of the family is that she doesn't have her insult game on.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah, she doesn't do insults well.

[Sarah Ellison]

And she's also asking people genuine questions about how they.

[Emily Peck]

She's trying to flatter her way into the family whereas the family insults their way into the family.

[Felix Salmon]

She's adapted to the Pierces. She made her whole career working her way into one family that has this kind of WASPy niceness aesthetic. And now she's in a very different kind of family business and she doesn't quite know how to handle it.

[Gabe Roth]

I can't wait to see what happens when it all falls apart. When the cruise thing comes out and.

[Sarah Ellison]

The weasel starts squealing, I think she's gonna be forced to do something.

[Emily Peck]

So the line from Jerry is the new face is going to get ripped to shreds. So is that what happens in the next episode that the weasel comes out on national TV and Rhea is the new face? Logan forces Reyn forces to take lie.

[Sarah Ellison]

Or take the ball to something terrible. Yeah, I mean she can't. She's not gonna be able to distance herself.

[Felix Salmon]

She's going to force two more episodes this season. Right, right. I think by the end of episode 10, by two more episodes from now, Rhea will be gone.

[Sarah Ellison]

Really?

[Felix Salmon]

And we Will have reset to like, who in the family is gonna take the reins next? That's where they are gonna land at the end of every season. So Rhea has two more episodes to go.

[Sarah Ellison]

I think it's a good prediction. I don't think that she can be long for this world.

[Gabe Roth]

I mean, how long can you book Holly Hunter for?

[Sarah Ellison]

This is a good. That's another. That's probably the key.

[Emily Peck]

I think this is hbo. They can afford it for another season if they want.

[Gabe Roth]

Huh.

[Sarah Ellison]

But I think that she. I mean, if she is the rich Zanino character, which you have to say that she is the rich. Can you explain what that means? So the whole Pierce family is based on the Bancroft family who owned Dow Jones, which owned the Wall Street Journal, which is where I used to work when Rupert Murdoch made his bid to buy that paper. There was a CEO of Dow Jones at the time who had. His name was Rich Zanino. He had a working class upbringing. He was not a Boston blue blood of the kind of Bancroft variety. And he played both sides of the deal and ended up having a lot of conversations with bankers on the Murdoch side and giving them a little bit of insight into how to divide the Bancroft family, which had cousins upon cousins and lots of historical divisions. And so the finale of the last season, which reveals Holly Hunter for having played both sides, is very much based on Zanino. He couldn't have survived inside of News Corp. Because he had served his purpose and now he was gone.

[Emily Peck]

And so I think he just got paid lots of money and he went away.

[Sarah Ellison]

He got paid lots of money and he went to go work for a private equity firm.

[Emily Peck]

Oh, yeah, Always.

[Gabe Roth]

So Raya will be okay?

[Sarah Ellison]

Maybe. I think she'll be financially okay.

[Gabe Roth]

I was wondering though, like, just logistically, like, why Logan would want someone like that to run his company when she's clearly two faced. Like she was. She wasn't.

[Sarah Ellison]

Is that like.

[Gabe Roth]

That's a good. He's strategic. So that's like. No, I think that he.

[Sarah Ellison]

I mean, and I actually can kind of. I mean, I think we can all possibly relate to this a little bit that he is only going in the direction of someone because he is avoiding someone else. So he's annoyed with, you know, upset with his. With Shiv. And so he's got this other person. Now he's annoyed with her, now he's annoyed with Rhea. So, you know, and obviously Kendall had his moment and he sort of brought Roman in and then he throws Roman out of the office when Kendall comes back and so it's just. Who does he hate less in the moment? And so it's. I mean, I do.

[Gabe Roth]

There's no strategy there.

[Sarah Ellison]

I don't.

[Felix Salmon]

I mean, there's also something. There's also sex appeal. Right. There's also a thing between him and Rhea, a younger woman that he like, he's. There's a certain amount of what he said to Kendall in the previous episode. He said, I'm not construct. You're the one who's construct. And there's a measure of that going on as well.

[Gabe Roth]

Very Trumpian. He says the thing about the other person, that's really about him.

[Felix Salmon]

Yes.

[Emily Peck]

But the other thing that happens in this episode, there's a bunch of weird foreshadowing when Connor does his desperate attempt to try and join in the sort of Avengers vs Thanos thing when he's attacked, and he says, shout out to Rhea for planning a wonderful funeral.

[Sarah Ellison]

I mean, memorial.

[Gabe Roth]

That's the whole episode.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah. But then at the end when Marcia is furious at Logan, she goes, God forbid I should miss the plaque. Your shiny little gravestone. And these, like, intimations of mortality are becoming more and more explicit. You okay?

[Sarah Ellison]

You told me nothing about you stepping aside. Why?

[Emily Peck]

I apologize.

[Sarah Ellison]

You broke something here.

[Emily Peck]

I didn't like it when you told me that I should sell my company.

[Sarah Ellison]

You hear what you want to hear, then you punish me for something I didn't say.

[Emily Peck]

I may have made some misjudgments.

[Sarah Ellison]

You're careless. You've been careless of me.

[Emily Peck]

Marcia, I'm bored. You are boring me.

[Felix Salmon]

Excuse me.

[Gabe Roth]

It's time for the plaque. You know, Mr. Ro.

[Sarah Ellison]

I'm going.

[Emily Peck]

Marcia, don't be fucking stupid. It's a plaque.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, God forbid I will miss the plaque.

[Felix Salmon]

Right.

[Emily Peck]

Your shiny little gravestone. So one of the interesting things about season two is that Logan has been in hale shape. He's been like. Unlike season one, where he was like, he's not fed, he's not being on the floor, like, he can't pour his coffee. He has been in full control of his faculties basically all season. But, like, suddenly in the.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, except that he did throw up in a glass at the piercing and he didn't. Valleys.

[Gabe Roth]

Yeah, he didn't remember his. She makes that scrapbook for him. Shiv makes him a scrapbook for him. He doesn't recognize his houses.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, I couldn't tell him that I.

[Gabe Roth]

Was a rich people's family that's left.

[Emily Peck]

A rich person's family. Yeah.

[Sarah Ellison]

I thought that that was just like.

[Emily Peck]

Once you have a Couple dozen. Like, how do you remember them all?

[Gabe Roth]

Track.

[Emily Peck]

Do you remember that time when John McCain was asked when he was running for president, like, how many houses do you own? And he couldn't remember. Yeah, he's like, I. Six, seven. I can't remember. He literally lost how many houses.

[Felix Salmon]

Who among us has.

[Gabe Roth]

No, but this, the whole show, isn't it about. It's about an old man who can't face dying. That's it, right? That's the bottom line. And I feel like that what everything.

[Sarah Ellison]

Is really about, though, probably. So, no, he's. That's it. That's the only thing that motivates him is avoiding that fate.

[Gabe Roth]

And this was the whole. All this was, was confronting his own mortality, going back to his hometown. He can't even go into his childhood house. He doesn't want to think about the past at all. It's too painful.

[Emily Peck]

But also, he has that kind of businessman view on life that, you know, everything that has happened in the past is a sunk cost. And the only thing that is real is what I'm going to be able to create in the future.

[Sarah Ellison]

Why does he say everything in the past is made up?

[Emily Peck]

Because I think that's how he thinks. Like, you know, he is not one for introspection. You know, he's not one for dwelling on the past. He just moves forward because. Partly because the past is so painful for him to. Look, we don't know what happened to Rose. We don't know how he got the scars on his back. You know, there's a lot of real pain in his past and he deals with it by just ignoring it, calling.

[Sarah Ellison]

It fake and calling it. Yeah, just a fun fact. There was a period of time when Rupert Murdoch was going to write a memoir of his own where he was going to sit down and do his own sort of autobiography. And he found it. So I don't wanna say painful in the sense of he had too many scars that he didn't wanna look back, but he just found it impossible to actually engage in that process of going back and retelling his own life story, that he scrapped the project and ended up never doing it. And so it's very recognizable that, yeah.

[Emily Peck]

There is no way that Logan would ever be able to write a memoir.

[Felix Salmon]

It's Logan driving up to the house he grew up in, a dozen people standing outside of it, and he can't get out of the car and he just drives right on. That's what the past is to him.

[Emily Peck]

So, Gabe, you see where this season is headed Right.

[Felix Salmon]

I mean, I think Rhea's got two more episodes and then she's toast. And we're back to, like, which of my kids am I gonna hand this to? None of of them.

[Gabe Roth]

I really don't know what's going to happen. I don't have a solid prediction.

[Emily Peck]

Well, I think episode nine has to be the Weasel. Right. Coming out on tv and suddenly that shitstorm hits the fan.

[Sarah Ellison]

There's so much that can resolve.

[Emily Peck]

But Jessamine can tell us the title of episode nine, because when we were talking about this one, it's a Dundee. I'm like, we knew it was going to be like a bunch of.

[Sarah Ellison]

Yeah, that is what has to happen.

[Gabe Roth]

Because that hits on D.C. yeah.

[Felix Salmon]

D.C. hearings. Congressional hearings about the Weasel.

[Sarah Ellison]

Well, what's gonna be interesting is that of course it has to be the Weasel, because it hits on all of the things. It's Rhea, which touches Marsha. Then we also have the. Greg's decision about whether to stay in the House. Greg's gonna call up to testify. You know, that's obviously what has to happen.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah, I mean, like. Yeah, the minute you say Greg's congressional testimony, you know, it has to happen because, like, can you imagine that scene? I. I just imagine.

[Sarah Ellison]

Oh, and then he's gonna be paid, and then Logan's gonna convince him to lie. I bet.

[Felix Salmon]

Wow.

[Sarah Ellison]

Wouldn't that be perfect? Maybe that's a bridge too far.

[Emily Peck]

All right, so I think that is what we have to look forward to for episode nine. I think that's gonna be the Z o' Leary joining the US Next week on I want to Come Sleep Money Succession. Sarah, you can come back. You are.

[Sarah Ellison]

I want to live in this room forever.

[Emily Peck]

Yeah, it's going to be a good one. See you next week on Sleep Money Succession.