Slate Money: Succession, S2E9, "You Can’t Make a Tomlette Without Breaking Some Gregs”

Summary

Slate Money: Succession, S2E9 - “You Can’t Make a Tomlette Without Breaking Some Gregs”

Date: October 7, 2019
Host: Felix Salmon (Axios)
Co-Hosts/Panel: Emily Peck (HuffPost); Lizzie O’Leary (Slate, ex-Marketplace/Bloomberg); John Collins (Elevator Repair Service, theatre director)
Theme: Deep-dive recap and analysis of Succession Season 2, Episode 9 (“DC” hearings, blood sacrifice brewing, family and company in crisis)

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Episode Overview

The panel recaps an explosive penultimate episode packed with real-world corporate scandal parallels, high-stakes congressional hearings, and shifting power dynamics within the Roy family. They dissect each character’s arc—especially Roman’s rise, Shiv’s morality, Kendall’s vulnerability, and Tom and Greg’s potential fall. The conversation is rich in behind-the-scenes references and business analogies, with sharp, memorable dialogue from the show and witty panel banter.

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Key Topics & Insights

1. Who’s Who & Personality Quiz Fun (00:00–02:28)

• The hosts and guests share the results of their “Which Succession character are you?” Buzzfeed quizzes, sparking jokes about roles and real-life resemblance.
  • Lizzie: “I don't know whether to be insulted or flattered.” (01:49)
• Sets a playful tone but quickly transitions into deep episode dissection.

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2. Roman’s Big Moment: From Screw-up to Savior (02:28–05:58; 37:31–38:38)

• Situation: Roman is being held hostage in Turkey/Azerbaijan as he maneuvers the company’s critical deal.
  • Emily: “Roman may be dying. We don’t know. He’s being held hostage.” (02:28)
• The panel’s surprise at Roman’s new competence—and how it may be the result of rare encouragement from Logan.
  • Felix: “Underneath his … toddler-with-a-hard-on exterior, [Roman] knows what he’s doing.” (03:55)
  • Lizzie: “He had just a little bit of love and support from his father … That's all these kids need.” (03:55)
  • John: “Logan keeps teasing that … ‘No, you’re really smart. You can do this.’” (04:42)
• Parallels to Real Events: The “hostage” subplot draws clear inspiration from the 2017 Saudi anti-corruption crackdown at the Ritz-Carlton (05:58–06:32).
  • Lizzie: “This was the parallel. Yes. We're locked up in the Ritz Carlton.” (06:10)
  • The deal’s outcome is left uncertain, raising tension for the finale.

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3. Congressional Hearings: Anatomy of the Blood Sacrifice (08:24–11:41; 14:10–16:22; 17:11–17:59)

• Procedural Drama: Unlike Succession’s usual “psychological chess game,” this episode is described as “more Law & Order.”
  • John: “This was more Law and Order than the usual psychodrama.” (09:25)
• Tom’s disastrous testimony becomes a highlight (10:15–11:14; 12:29–12:38):
  • Mocked as “the man with two assholes,” Tom flounders under hostile questioning.
  • Felix: “Do you know what is special about the hours between 3am and 5am on March 12? … That was the only two-hour period you did not send [Greg] an email with the title ‘You can't make a Tomlet without breaking some Gregs.’” (12:47)
  • Greg’s role as document hoarder is flagged as potentially plot-critical.
  • Felix: “My theory: the blood sacrifice is Tom and Greg … after being sacrificed … Greg squeals to the feds.” (13:38)
• Blood Sacrifice Theories (14:10–15:44):
  • Debate on who the titular “blood sacrifice” will be: Tom, Greg, or Kendall. Most panelists see Kendall as the likely target.
  • Emily: “The whole arc of the season has kind of been Kendall—at the beginning… disastrous appearance on TV … he takes himself out of it and I feel like we’ve set up Kendall for a fall.” (15:09)

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4. Show’s Real-Life Parallels: MeToo, NDAs, and News Corp (16:22–24:26)

• Showrunners connect the Royco scandal to real-life events:
  • Saudi power plays, the News Corp phone hacking scandal, Roger Ailes at Fox, Harvey Weinstein, and waves of NDAs.
  • Felix: “There’s a Murdoch parallel here, of course … the Roger Ailes investigation.” (21:42)
• Lizzie: “NDAs start dominoing … How many secret settlements are there in the Roy world?” (18:28)
• Emily: “I thought about Ailes, too, but this is kinda a more company-behaving-badly rather than man-behaving-badly.” (24:26)
• Succession’s hearings are compared to both the Kavanaugh and Murdoch/News of the World inquiries for their structure, impact, and media circus.

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5. Shiv: Manipulation and Morality (17:34–19:19; 27:20–28:52; 41:44–42:14)

• Shiv’s role is examined as she flips a key witness with emotional honesty, unlike Rhea’s hollow pep talks.
  • Felix: “The way to persuade someone is … to tell the truth. You’re much more likely to do that.” (27:09)
  • Lizzie: “That’s all you’ll ever be [a victim]. It’s both accurate and cruel.” (19:12)
• Shiv’s walk-and-talks, wardrobe, and increasingly purposeful stride are discussed as visual motifs.
  • Lizzie: “The scenes this season with Shiv walking places… a thing, right?” (41:44)
• Shiv’s ethical ambiguity and conscience are weighed against the backdrop of gender, MeToo, and family loyalty.

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6. Logan’s Vulnerability: Real or Tactical? (24:30–26:56)

• When Logan appears weak or confused during the hearing, the panel debates if it’s genuine aging or strategic doddering.
  • Emily: “He switched from being sharp and with it to doddering, possibly on purpose.” (26:04)
  • John: “I’m afraid to not always suspect that he's up to something.” (26:50)

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7. Secondary Characters and Plot Threads (30:53–33:13)

• Discussion of underused characters (Marcia, Connor, Naomi) and potential plot payoffs.
  • Felix: “An episode without Marcia is always going to be a suboptimal episode.” (30:13)
  • Emily: “I really want them to make those [Kendall's guilt and deaths at sea] collide.” (33:13)

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8. Business & Dealings: Proxy Fights, Going Private, and Shareholder Pressure (33:39–36:57)

• Speculation about who’s really backing the “weasel” proxy fighter (Sandy or Ewan?).
• The prospect of taking Waystar private, Middle Eastern buyouts, and real-world analogues.

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9. Memorable Quotes & Standout Lines (with timestamps)

• “You can’t make a Tomlet without breaking some Gregs.” – Title and recurring joke (12:38)
• “Are you now or have you ever been a member of the cruise dirty sex fuck party?” – Frank, mocking congressional theater (43:02)
• “What’s it like to be married to a man with two assholes?” – (43:17)
• Frank: “If I was to give Tom a letter grade, I’d give him a B for bad plus terrible.” (43:55)
• “You’re angsting me.” – Jerry to Tom (43:55)
• “When a team is a team, they can’t actually physically, physically be beaten.” – Motivational Roman (37:20)
• “It’s just not fun to think you might find a corpse in the freezer. Bluebeard.” – Rhea (44:55)

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10. Realism & Production: Congressional Backdrops and Visuals (39:03–41:44)

• The set design and accuracy of congressional hearing scenes are praised, although lighting is noted as “theatrical” vs. real-world fluorescent.
  • Lizzie: “As someone who covered Congress for six years, they [the show] actually did a pretty good job.” (39:03)
  • John: “I took issue with the lighting … very theatrical.” (39:55)

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11. Predictions & Looking Forward to the Finale (51:08–55:15)

• Blood Sacrifice remains the big question: Will it be Kendall? Tom? Greg? Roman? (53:05–53:12)
• Mixed predictions on who (if anyone) will go to jail.
• Panelists agree Episode 10 is poised to be “absolutely packed” and hope it lives up to season 1’s jaw-dropping finish.
  • John: “Next episode is going to be absolutely packed.” (52:04)
  • Felix: “All I want for Christmas is for season two, episode 10, to be half as good as season one [finale].” (51:56)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:28 – Introductions, quiz jokes
• 02:28–05:58 – Roman’s rise, hostage subplot
• 08:24–15:44 – Congressional hearings, Tom & Greg’s fall, blood sacrifice theories
• 16:22–24:26 – Real-world media/MeToo parallels, NDAs
• 24:30–26:56 – Logan’s “doddering”: real or fake?
• 27:20–28:52 – Shiv’s manipulation, honesty vs. lying
• 30:53–33:13 – Underused characters (Marcia, Connor, Naomi)
• 33:39–36:57 – Proxy battles, going private
• 37:31–38:38 – Roman’s team pep talk
• 39:03–41:44 – Congressional production, visuals, Shiv’s power striding
• 43:02–45:17 – Best/worst lines from the episode
• 51:08–55:15 – Finale predictions

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Notable Moments & Banter

• Playful trash talk: “A dipshit, a sex pest, and a grand old Duke of Dork on a Central Asian vacation.” (37:47)
• Lingering jokes: “Can you give him a chocolate suppository?” (24:52), “Human footstool is a target oriented incentive.” (44:43)
• Deep dives into references: Bluebeard, Chekhov’s gun, real-world company collapses

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Final Thoughts

The panel expertly ties Succession’s fictional drama to the realities of boardroom politics, media scandal, and power, keeping the tone lively and irreverent throughout. The debate over who the “blood sacrifice” will be propels anticipation for the finale, while the episode’s dense layering of real-world resonances gives panelists ample material for sharp, insightful commentary.

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Transcript

[A]

The following podcast contains explicit language. Hello, and welcome to episode nine of the Succession Recap podcast podcast. This one. Oh, my God. What can I say? Blood sacrifice. It's all happening. I am Felix Salmon of Axios. I'm here with Emily Peck of HuffPost, although technically I'm not here. I'm in California. Emily is in the studio with HuffPost with. Well, Emily, since you're in the studio, why don't you introduce our amazing guests for this episode?

[B]

Well, Felix, I'm here with the amazing Lizzie o', Leary, who is new to Slate and about to start a whole other podcast and formerly of Marketplace, Marketplace, Bloomberg, other places. And Lizzie has brought her husband. Brought my husband, who she will introduce.

[C]

I've brought John Collins of Elevator Repair Service, noted theater director. Hello, John.

[D]

And Succession fan.

[A]

John, you were just explaining that we have. What is it? Two Romans, a Logan and a Marsha.

[D]

No, Tom. I'm Tom.

[A]

A Tom.

[C]

He's a Tom.

[B]

We have all taken the buzzfeed quiz, which.

[A]

We've all taken the buzzfeed quiz. I turned out to be Roman. Who are you? Emily?

[B]

I, too, Felix, am Roman.

[A]

Wow. We can't have two Romans hosting.

[C]

Fuck off.

[B]

So, Jasmine, disconnect Felix, quick.

[C]

I'm a Logan.

[A]

Just get out.

[B]

But Lizzie is Logan. I love it.

[A]

Lizzie is, of course, a Logan.

[C]

I don't know whether to be insulted or flattered.

[D]

I'm not surprised.

[A]

I did promise Lizzie, I invited her on the show that I would make it clear to every single listener that she in no way know how, not in the slightest bit, resembles Siobhan. She is a Logan.

[C]

She does Emily saying they do.

[B]

She does a Logan.

[D]

You have red hair.

[C]

Ish.

[B]

They're the first people to resemble.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was actually. It was one of our honeymoon pictures that on Instagram, Felix commented, hi, Shiv at the bottom.

[D]

That was for some other reason, though.

[C]

I think we were in a hot tub drinking champagne.

[B]

You guys, can we talk about this episode? Because there's a lot to get into. Roman may be dying. We don't know. He's being held hostage for starters.

[D]

Although right there at the end, he got called into the other room by name. And maybe this is just an elaborate way this deal is being worked out.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

Well, I think there's more to it than the deal, but they are definitely. The one thing that really struck me about this episode is that all three of the kids turn out to be unbelievably actually competent for once.

[B]

Yes, I had the same exact thought. Like I've Never pressure Roman being just.

[A]

So good at doing anything, Roman rises to the occasion. Roman, like underneath his, you know, what did Shiv call him? A toddler with a hard on exterior. There's that amazing piece which I missed. I actually watched this episode twice and I missed it the first time. I picked it up the second time when Jamie the banker and Roman in the back of the car going to the meeting and Jamie's like, you want me to give you 20 of my best minutes on Turko Azerbaijani relations. And Roman's like, I know it all. I'm like, actually does the oil pipeline cooperation, the military and diplomatic links or the deeper cultural sympathies. He's like, he knows he's well briefed. He's on top of it. Like, maybe the fuck up, cut up act is just an act. And actually he knows what he's doing.

[B]

I mean, well, you know, I think why he displayed such competence, it's because he had just a little bit of love and support from his father who actually took him aside and was like, you can do this. And that's all these kids need. They just need a parent to be like, you are good. I love you and you can do this.

[C]

It means say I love you, but much more. I don't know. You have more faith than I do. I like sarcastically wrote, why is Roman on the upswing? It's not at all clear to me that he has the stuff.

[B]

I don't know if he has. How much stuff do you actually have?

[A]

We don't know. We don't know that he has the stuff. But this has definitely been a part of, I want to say the past four episodes of the season. Is Roman actually becoming a serious player in the way that he wasn't for the first time? 1 and a half seasons, basically.

[D]

Logan keeps teasing that, like, goes to him. Was it this episode where he told him, he's like, no, you're really smart. You can do this.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

But Rowan was terrifying.

[A]

And Rhea told Logan. Rhea was saying nice things about Roman to Logan.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like Jerry doesn't seem to completely just laugh at him. There is this idea that, and it's new, I think in the second half of this season that he's competent. But they are all performing under pressure when their backs are against the wall and there's an existential threat to Waystar. Royko. Roman like does exactly what he's meant to do. Shiv does exactly what she's meant to do. Kendall does exactly what he's meant to do. It's kind of Amazing.

[B]

And I thought it was also remarkable that in the hostage situation I thought Roman was like pretty remarkably chill. That was pretty chill. I mean. Cause there was the other guy.

[D]

His chin and his chest where he is.

[B]

Was it Carl just like losing it? Just FYI, I'm having a bit of a panic attack and you know, and his hand, as soon as they asked if there are foreign nationals, his hand was already in the air. Even before they discuss whether they disclose it or not.

[D]

I am currently having a panic attack.

[C]

Can I just say, do you guys remember two years ago when the what30 Saudi business.

[B]

Exactly. This was the parallel.

[C]

This was the parallel. Yes.

[A]

We're locked up in the Ritz, Carl.

[C]

Yeah, in the Ritz Carlton. Riyadh. Yes.

[A]

As part of an anti corruption tribe.

[C]

Right. I was googling this as we were. I was like, oh, oh, I know what this is.

[B]

I thought there were. Yeah. The parallels. I said there were parallels to the Saudis and MBS a few episodes ago when we first met that guy. And now it seems like incredibly obvious that this parallel is there.

[A]

Yeah. I mean when there was this one reference to Baku and you're like, he's not Saudi, he's Azerbaijani. That's weird. But he always felt Saudi. And now they're just upping the Saudi parallels here. Even unto the anti corruption campaign which ultimately was an attempt by MBS to consolidate power and to bring assets under his own grip. And if that's what's happening here. Again, if he's wanting to consolidate assets, one of the assets he'd love to consolidate would be Waystar Royko. So the deal could well be on. Roman can still be the hero.

[C]

Well, except that the guy who Romans Edward is Edward. Is Edward like the princeling to bet on or is somebody else? Didn't he say like his cousin was doing that? Like I'm wondering if maybe they bet on the horse like the person who's.

[A]

No, I think what happened was that Edward brought in the deal flow. He was gonna do it for his dad and now it's his brother in law, sister or someone. But like the deal is still happening even if it's not Edward as the principal anymore.

[B]

Seems like a great. You definitely wanna do a deal with people who have guns and lock you in a hotel.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

That seems like a way better than going to Congress.

[D]

A string of subplots around this deal for the next season.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

So.

[B]

So should we get to the main event next season?

[A]

You don't think that's gonna get sewn up by the End of.

[D]

Or the next episode.

[B]

We don't know, listeners.

[A]

I mean, one thing about succession is it moves fast. Everything that you think is gonna take a season to resolve winds up resolving in, like, an episode or two. That was the great thing about season one, Right. The whole thing was like, was Logan going to recover? And then he does, and you're like, oh, well, that whole thing, which was meant to drive for the whole season, is gonna have to get replaced by something else. And it was true.

[D]

A season in every episode.

[B]

So let's talk about the hearings. Can we talk about the hearings?

[A]

Okay. I just want to ask John one question, though. I don't know if you noticed this. At the beginning of the episode, it said, written by Jesse Armstrong. Oh, yeah, I've never seen that. I mean, I might not have noticed it before, but it's certainly the first time I've seen it. The showrunner wrote this episode. What does that mean?

[D]

It usually means it's gonna be a significant episode. I mean, you know, it's like when Matt Weiner would write a Mad Men episode.

[B]

I mean, they crammed a lot into this baby. I mean, the Roman thing was just a subplot, and the main thing was the D.C. hearings. But even that wasn't the whole thing. Right.

[C]

Well, one thing John said last night, which hopefully will be a nice segue for us, one thing John said when we were watching this was that this was a much more procedural episode in a lot of ways. Like, a lot of stuff happened versus a psychological chess game.

[D]

This was more Law and Order than the usual psychodrama.

[A]

Given how the Iannucci DNA is sort of part of what Jesse Armstrong does, I was surprised how few really comic moments there were. This was not succession as comedy at all.

[D]

That's right. It was harder to. There were not as many best line choices this time around.

[B]

I mean, we had Tom Wambsgans practically in tears after his really bad. What, does he have two assholes now? Testimony before Congressman married to a man with two assholes. Oh, my God. His. Can we just talk about that? I mean, that's like a reporter's dream, because you watch these hearings as a reporter and you just want to, like, shoot yourself in the face. But the questioning of Tom Wamb scans before this committee was incredible.

[D]

I have a big issue with this, though. And we didn't talk about.

[A]

But wait, hang on. If we're talking about good lines, can we just mention smirking block of domestic feta?

[D]

Yes. I didn't manage to scribble that one down. But I remember it. My issue with it was that. And it's all about Tom's poor performance. And since I'm speaking as Tom today, how in the world were they surprised by all of that? How was Jerry not involved in all those emails being subpoenaed? Like how all of a sudden does. Does Congress have all that information and they have no idea they got it from them?

[B]

That was a bit of a MacGuffin too. I didn't understand how they had the emails. And I'm not familiar with. Maybe, Felix, you would be, but other hearings where, you know, CEOs and whatnot, executives are brought forward and they have that level of detail, like box X number is missing from the files.

[D]

They had Greg's name on a log.

[C]

They had some of that. Felix, do you remember the Carl Levin's Goldman Sachs hearings where they referred to like very specific mortgage tranches? Like that was something where I felt like that was one where they're like, well, you called, I can't even now remember the names of the collateralized debt. But they had these like very specific names for them. And they were calling up internal emails about how like this thing was a piece of shit.

[A]

Right now you can that. I mean, the Senate committees definitely have subpoena power and they can definitely subpoena these kind of emails. I think there was a little bit of artistic license in terms of the amount of time it takes to subpoena, yes. These emails and go through them. And I think that John is exactly right, that that whole process of discovery is done with full visibility by Gerry and everyone else. And they know exactly what Gil has. So the idea that Gil is going to ambush Tom with these emails is unlikely. But then again, Tom didn't look like he was surprised that Gil had the emails. He just looked like he had no idea how to answer the questions.

[B]

I mean, he looked a little.

[C]

But if you're an executive going in front of Congress, you shouldn't be surprised. That means you're too busy.

[D]

Well, he denied knowing who Greg is and then had to revise that. I mean, it was classic Tom stuttering.

[A]

You can't make an omelet without making.

[B]

A tablet, without breaking some Greggs, a tome.

[D]

Without breaking some Greggs sent that email.

[B]

To him, what, like 85 times?

[A]

67 times. I mean, oh my God. Do you know what is special about the hours between 3am and 5am on the night of March 12? No, sir. That was the only two hour period in which you did not send an email to Mr. Hirsch with the Title. You can't make a Tomlet without breaking some Greggs. You sent the same email to him 67 times in one evening. I guess it was a joke, right?

[B]

They were supposed to be destroying evidence together, top secret. And he's emailing 67 times, presumably about that. That was.

[D]

I have to say, I thought that the. The few pages that Greg grabbed out of the fire pit were going to come into this episode. I thought that was gonna have some play.

[A]

I think that comes. I think that comes when. Okay, so this is my theory that the blood sacrifice is Tom and Greg, and that after being sacrificed by the Roy family, Greg winds up squealing to the feds, handing over his few pages of paper, and, you know, being a cooperating witness, that is. And. And. And that's where that whole subplot and the audio recordings and everything else.

[B]

I strongly disagree.

[C]

We're all shaking our heads.

[B]

I strongly disagree about who the blood sacrifice is.

[D]

I think the idea of. Of Greg somehow turning that way is. I bet that's right. But I don't.

[C]

I don't think he wants those for the money so he can do it alone.

[D]

I think that last line, that blood sacrifice line, the way he said it could. I mean, it takes some weight away from it. If he's talking about Tom, he's talking about. He's talking about Kendall. He's talking about Kendall 100%.

[B]

Because he says to Shiv, he said, I forget what. I didn't write it down. But, like, Kendall came out like a fighter, but that's not gonna be enough for these vegetarians.

[D]

We would like to say that about three times.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I really think he's setting Kendall up. I mean, he threw to him in the hearing to sell him out, which. Fine. And then he made that comment to Shiv, and then very close to that comment mentions blood sacrifice. And the whole arc of the season has kind of been Kendall. Y. Like, at the beginning, Kendall. I mean, this was. The hearing was really like a comeback for Kendall from doing that sort of disastrous appearance on TV in the first episode.

[C]

The slam's better.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Where he's, like, dripping wet from the spa and they shuttle him off. He really, like, does a comeback, but I feel like he's not gonna end on the up like he is the blood sacrifice. And Logan, he can't fight him.

[C]

He's completely.

[B]

You know, he's compromised. He has compromised in a way that. What's his name, Bill? Who they want to kill cannot be killed because he has the compromise. He says I have it all in my diary. I should write a book. So, like, he takes himself out of it and I feel like we've set up Kendall for a fall. But I don't know.

[D]

Kendall's blood.

[B]

He is blood.

[D]

Tom's not blood.

[A]

No.

[C]

There are two things. These are tiny details, but that I loved that are at the top of the episode. That sort of set up, I don't know the research that I feel like the succession team does. Number one is the like faux 60 Minutes interview. And they aped the 60 Minutes shot style. They ape the talking nose, like right down to these very tight, you know, specifically lit 60 minute shots. And then the other thing, and I think it's when they're watching the 60 Minutes, the foe 60 Minutes is Katrina. No, Katrina. Carolina, that's her name. Her tweet deck flying by.

[B]

Tweet deck.

[C]

I was like, oh, my God, she's.

[A]

Seeing how it's landing.

[B]

They had a couple of shots in the hearing room, in like the back room. Someone else had tweetdeck up too. Might have been Carolina again. But I was like, that is so accurate. Yes, Mr. Fuck is.

[A]

And that whole thing where, I mean, I saw out of the corner of my eye how they did that establishing shot of him walking through the Union Square green market. Because that's what, like, normal, you know, I don't know, organic, biodynamic people do or something. It makes him feel more trustworthy that he's in the green market. But that's so, you know, tv.

[B]

Should we talk a little bit about what went down on the cruise ships? Or are we all in agreement of what went down? Basically a bunch of sexual harassment and people jumping overboard.

[D]

Well, we know about Lester threatening the performers with their jobs unless they have sex with him. And there was reference. There were references to bodies overboard. And what was the acronym?

[A]

Incident.

[B]

No real person involved.

[D]

No real person involved.

[B]

I felt like that was like, of a larger significance because to the Roys, there are no real people. Unless it's maybe family.

[C]

Maybe family. Like there are just some incidentals.

[B]

But no real person involved.

[C]

No real person involved was just like.

[D]

And do we buy Shiv's convincing the witness not to?

[B]

Yeah, let's dig into Shiv.

[A]

That was an impressive performance by Shiv because it came after an equally impressive performance by Rhea. Like there was that thing where she just kind of waltzes into the apartment. She goes, as I understand it, we have nothing to be guilty about. I look forward to getting more involved. Toodle pip and then leave. Toodle Pip, toodle, pip. And then that's like. She's like. I can say the words in a vaguely convincing manner. I can. And then Shiv comes out and does an actual act of turning someone around and being convincing in a way that Rhea's probably. I don't know. Maybe she can do it, but maybe she couldn't.

[B]

Maybe she didn't want to get her hands dirty.

[C]

Well. And she's also not kind of internally broken about it in the way that I think Shiv is or I don't. So I watched this, having just finished she Said Jodi Cantor and Megan Tuohy's book about, you know, breaking on the Harvey Weinstein stuff. And there's a whole section about Christine Blasey Ford. And there are two things that totally stuck out to me. One, there's this, like, random throwaway line, Jerry mentioning NDAs. And it was like, the NDAs start dominoing, the NDA start dominoing. I was like, oh, my God, how many NDAs are there in the Roy world that we don't know about? And how many secret settlements? And then this, like, devastating line of shivs. That's all you'll ever be. Mm. And it's both accurate and not. And cruel. And all I could think about is just, like, the competing impulses that are going on in this woman's mind. I mean, Shiv's job is.

[A]

But let's unpack this.

[B]

I actually thought the hearing a little bit because.

[C]

Oh, just showing women to the Kavanaugh. Okay, Felix.

[B]

To the Kavanaugh hearings. Because it was very much like part one and part two. And if you remember the Kavanaugh hearings, after part one, everyone was like, christine Blasey Ford was so great. Kavanaugh's going down. Blah, blah, blah. And after part one of the hearing, it was like, oh, my God, Waystar Royco is going down. Then the second part, it was very eerily similar to Kavanaugh, where Kendall comes out and he just pushes back and he's super aggressive and fights, and it kind of.

[C]

And then you have the Republican senator who's like, yes, yes, exactly.

[B]

And he turns it around with just, like, naked aggression. And I don't know, maybe that's a common thing. If I ever get called up before.

[D]

I get there with a fist pump from Connor in the third row.

[B]

Yes, but what were you gonna say, Felix?

[A]

So, yeah, I think Lizzie is exactly right. And the other big thing, which was just pure coincidence and there's no way that the writers could ever have known about this, was that it came out. This episode came out the same week as Irin Carmon's piece in New York magazine about, like, the way that the women of the Me Too movement have suffered in exactly the way that Shiv said that she was going to suffer. But the NDA's dominoing, I think, is super interesting. And I want to know more, Lizzie, from you, about how that works. The way I see it is that what happens in theory is that this woman comes out in public and says, very much in public, dear Waste our. Can you waive my NDA so that I can talk about all of this in public? And they have to say yes, because to say no would be suicidal. And then once they waive that one, they feel the need to waive all of the other ones, and then all of the other ones start coming out. Am I right about that?

[C]

I don't. I don't know about the sort of wave, the NDA part of it.

[D]

I mean, they're just breaking them.

[C]

They're just. Yeah, I mean, that was one of the things that that is in, she said, is the sort of these women wrestling with. If I break my NDA, like, am I going to be liable for millions of dollars? Is the Weinstein Company going to come after me? Probably, yeah. They have some big scary lawyers, I mean, I would assume. Well, there's some that, you know. Well, Star Shitko.

[A]

Also, there's a Murdoch parallel here, of course, which is the Roger Ailes investigation.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Where the women started coming out and making accusations about Roger Ailes, and they were all under NDAs. And then 21st Century Fox came out and said, we are basically releasing you from your NDA investigation with Weinstein.

[B]

I think it was more like once the women started talking, the Weinstein Company just didn't go out. They didn't pursue.

[C]

They didn't go out. But. But there's this whole section in the book where they really go into. And I can't remember which woman it was. There are two women in England. I don't know if it's Zelda Perkins or if it's Laura Madden, I think her name is. And it's like a very specific question of, like, will I be liable for all this money? Will they go after me and she breaks it?

[D]

But in those cases, and then in.

[B]

The end, Weinstein, they go bankrupt and it's like, whatever.

[D]

If there's somebody to take the fall there, that's a company distancing itself from. I mean, I don't know. Roger Ailes is not some insignificant employee, but in this case, it's the whole company has something at stake. They can't. They're trying to figure out who they can distance themselves from, but they can't figure out who to do that. So that's why.

[C]

Blood sacrifice.

[D]

Blood sacrifice.

[B]

The buck stops with Bill. But no, it does not.

[C]

It does not.

[B]

It needs to stop a little higher up.

[D]

Can't kill Bill.

[B]

I also thought one of the.

[D]

That was their joke.

[B]

One of the good real life parallels to these hearings was the hacking scandal that News Corp. Went through a few years ago. And if you'll remember, Rupert Murdoch and his son James appeared before Parliament. And that's famous because Murdoch got a pie in the face and Wendy.

[C]

Dangling. Jumped in.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And Wendy Deng, his wife, jumped in and took the pie for him. So that was like, really got all the attention. But also what happened was Murdoch looked kind of like old when he testified. And it was kind of like the beginning of the end, I think for people would agree, for News Corp. And also for his son James, who, like, never really.

[D]

He.

[B]

His big deal that he was shepherding through the B Sky B deal kind of fell through after those hearings. You'll remember the News of the World, the tabloid was hacking into everybody's voicemails to figure out what was going on. And News Corp never really recovered from that. And I feel like that's a big part of that.

[A]

They shut down the entire paper.

[B]

They shut down the whole paper? Yeah. And someone went to jail. I forget I was reading about it the other night, but Andy Colson, was.

[C]

It Andy Coulson and Rebecca Brooks.

[B]

Yeah, Rebecca Brooks.

[A]

Rebecca never went to jail.

[B]

I didn't go to jail. It was bad. It was really bad for them. And I feel like that's the parallel here, because I thought about Ailes, too, but this is kind of a more like company behaving badly rather than man behaving badly inside the company and being protected.

[C]

Although that is part of it.

[B]

Part of it. It's kind of like a mishmash, I guess.

[C]

So I have a question about Logan. In the hearings, he kind of falters and dodders for a moment. Was that real? Was that him playing Kendall? What was happening there?

[D]

See, I think that's been going on.

[A]

I think that was the low blood sugar thing. And wait, who is the PR guy who seems to become Hugo suddenly?

[C]

Fisher Stevens.

[A]

Hugo Fisher Stevens.

[B]

Is that his real name?

[A]

Yeah, it is. Fisher Stevens, where Jerry's like, yay, low blood sugar. And Hugo goes, can you give him a chocolate suppository? Just slipper Snickers bar up there one last time, just in case.

[D]

They're super direct. Did you, Logan Roy, witness any assaults on your ships or take part in them?

[A]

I'm not going to answer a question like that.

[B]

I. I thought that's just a no.

[A]

I'm not dignifying that question with an answer you can both off. Okay.

[C]

Is he okay?

[B]

Can you give him a chocolate suppository? Just a slip a Snickers bar up there.

[D]

But this is a thing about that. About that kind of behavior from Logan. There's been a little bit more of that in the last three episodes or so where he seems. He gets a little confused or he gets a little soft. Like he got real soft with Shiv a couple of times. One time, right before he turned on her about putting herself up for CEO of Pearce. And I wonder if some of this isn't some calculated scheming on his part or part of how he was setting it up to throw it to Kendall or.

[B]

I have two thoughts. One is, like, it seemed put on to me a little bit just because prior to acting all doddering and stuff, he was, like, quipping back towards the congressman. Right. I said, well, I'm not gonna compare to Emerson. Blah, blah, blah. He said some great line. So it did seem kind of like he switched from being kind of sharp and with it to doddering, possibly on purpose. But then the other thing I was gonna say that moves to the doddering camp is the opening scene of the episode where he's walking slowly in Central park like an old man. He just looks like such an old man taking his, like, constitutional. And then he comes out. Comes out of the elevator, and it's, like, dim. And the elevator opens, and the bright light hits him in the face, and he's just, like, squinting and looking away, and he just seems. He seems like he's really feeling his age.

[D]

I guess I'm just afraid to not always suspect that he's up to something.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Like Shiv said to the woman, I don't trust my father.

[C]

Right, right. Which was, of course, like, the thing that made her believable, I guess, on the part of the woman.

[B]

She was telling the truth.

[C]

She was telling the truth. Right. Or some version of the truth.

[A]

Still, the way to persuade someone is to successfully manipulate them is to tell the truth. You're much more likely to do that than you are if you lie to them.

[D]

Yeah. These people are pros.

[C]

I have an obsession that kind of runs through my watching of succession. And it happens in the scene where Shiv is trying to persuade the woman whose name I've forgotten. That's really sad that now we're all just calling her the woman victim. Victim.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That's all you'll ever be is the weaponization of the phrase. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh huh gets used a lot in succession. The. The. The woman uses it when she's kind of disbelieving and listening to Shib, and Shiv uses it in her, like, uh huh.

[D]

Logan uses it all the time. I'm getting it.

[C]

I'm getting there, okay. In her. Shiv's like, uh huh. And then Logan's like, uh huh is his real signal of like, you're a piece of shit and I'm not listening to you.

[B]

That's true. That's right up there. With all due respect. Which gets used a lot in the show as well. All due respect. And then some awful insult right after.

[A]

No one respects anyone in this show. I. I mean, I just want to come back to this idea of telling the truth versus lying, though, because I think it's fascinating the way that Shiv gets this done by telling the truth in a way that Rhea, when she comes in and gives her pep talks and says, we have nothing to be guilty about, she just lies. Right. The way that she thinks you can change the facts on the ground is by lying to people. And then that doesn't work, and she winds up just being incapable of doing this job that I'm pretty sure she did want at least an episode or two ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What makes her change her mind?

[B]

I think she just, like she said she can't see the bottom of the pool, and it's clear that we aren't at the bottom of the pool yet. There's gonna be more coming out. And it honestly seemed like she was just not comfortable with just how dirty this company is and that she maybe she said, like, the details. She didn't realize in the details how dirty the company is, and maybe that she has some kind of. Could it be conscience, or is it that she doesn't want to get on a sinking ship?

[D]

I think she just realized that she was being screwed over by being given the job.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

She's the one character who I've had trouble with, like, her motivations and, like, the rapidity of her trajectory shifts. I think where I'm like, wait, you wanted this one thing and then you, like, believed in Logan. Is that because you. There was maybe romance or you wanted the company or, like, it's so rapid. Where I was having A hard time with it.

[B]

Are you saying it wasn't believable that he would name her his successor at all?

[C]

No, I think it. It. I think his standpoint was believable. Hers wasn't. To me. I was like, wait, sorry. Suddenly you're, like, organizing the party and. I don't know. Also, no Marcia in this episode.

[B]

And Roman tries to talk to Logan about it.

[A]

An episode without Marcia is always going to be a suboptimal episode.

[B]

I feel like Marcia is. You want to think there's something amazing there, but, like, we really haven't seen. I know you're gonna get mad at me, but have we really seen that much great stuff from Marcia?

[D]

Only a little bit. And there's all this mystery packed into her about her mysterious background, and there's all these blank spaces that we keep waiting to get filled in, like they're gonna move the plot in some really big way. And I thought that about her. I thought that about Conor's presidential campaign, which we have heard almost nothing about.

[C]

Conheads.

[B]

Except the conheads. Can I use that?

[A]

The conheads. But the other one who really fascinates me is Naomi, who, like, in the beginning of the season, she's like, the Die Hard. I will never go anywhere near the Roy family, who are ev. And by this episode, she's literally turning up in the halls of Congress to offer moral support.

[C]

I mean, sex with Lyndall cannot be that great. That you're just like, whatever.

[A]

So what's going on with Naomi?

[D]

I always think something's going on with anybody.

[B]

I think they have a burgeoning relationship. I think their relationship makes total sense. They have similar stories. They're nihilists. Relate to each other. Yeah, nihilus. Exactly. She doesn't actually believe in anything, possibly. I don't know about that. I'm not sure if I can make that leap. They have affection. They have affection for each other.

[C]

And it's clear that Logan, like, despises her.

[B]

Yeah. Which is always. Which is gonna always be a problem for Kendall. Like, he can never stray from his father's approval that much.

[D]

I really thought he was.

[A]

Well, I mean, like, Logan despised his airhead girlfriend, and that caused Kendall to just dump the airhead girlfriend. But Kendall has something going with Naomi, which is much deeper than he had with the airhead girlfriend.

[B]

I feel like with the airhead girlfriend, it was like when someone comes over to your house and you realize, like, how dusty it is. It's like you need someone else's perspective to show you how ridiculous Your choice is. But with Naomi, it's kind of a different thing.

[C]

I mean, that must be such a rarefied universe to inhabit. Not only their sort of uber rich children thing, but, like, the ones who have had the drug problems and have, like, caused embarrassment or whatever it is. Like, there's gotta be, like, three people on the planet who get it. Yeah.

[D]

And I thought they had such a connection in the helicopter that he was gonna confess to her right there about the car accident. I really thought that was gonna happen there. And I still am holding out something.

[A]

Well, maybe he already has.

[C]

He's desperate to confess.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

He really couldn't tell his mother.

[A]

I mean, honestly, she's a better person to confess to than his mom.

[C]

Probably.

[D]

Anyone is not gonna get that opportunity, I don't think.

[B]

And did you notice, like, I think it was in the back room at the hearing, and someone said something about people going overboard and dying? They cut to Kendall. That's on purpose, right? They cut to him to, like, make.

[C]

You think about that.

[B]

I've noticed it in a few, like, little places where the death thing comes up, overboard comes up, cut to Kendall. So I feel like I really want them to make those two things collide.

[D]

Somehow, but that maybe just information has to come out. Kendall's gonna implode.

[C]

That's the rule.

[B]

Right. You can't have a gun in the first act and not blah, blah, blah, I don't know, John.

[D]

Blah, blah, blah, in the second act. Right.

[A]

Something. Something Chekhov, something talking about information coming out, though, another big question I had was that both Logan and Jerry at the top of the episode make reference to the weasel being backed by. And my question is, do they believe that the weasel is backed by Sandy, or do they just want to say that they think that the weasel is backed by Sandy because that will help them in the proxy fight. And somewhere deep down, they know that he's actually being backed by Ewan.

[C]

Are we sure it's Ewan? I know you think so.

[A]

I think it's Ewan. Are you not sure it's Ewan?

[D]

I think that's a really good theory.

[A]

I don't know.

[D]

I like it.

[C]

Isn't all of Ewan's money tied up in roystar stock?

[B]

We don't know, Felix. And he might have sold it last week. They said he sold it, and he just has. They said to me, emily, no, he just has treasury bonds now.

[D]

You know what?

[B]

That's what they told me last time.

[D]

I noted that last week when you guys talked about that. And I thought, but wait, that's a significant amount of stock. Wouldn't that have raised some alarms? Wouldn't that have caused the price of the stock to drop if somebody had suddenly unloaded that much of it?

[A]

Well, not.

[B]

He might have a little thing on a sudden.

[C]

Right. Like if he'd. If he'd sold.

[D]

I see.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think it's an open question as to who is bankrolling the weasel.

[D]

I mean, but he came to that board meeting.

[C]

Let me.

[A]

Let me put it. Let me put it.

[B]

I mean, who would turn down.

[A]

No, someone that's bankrolling the weasel?

[C]

I don't.

[D]

Right.

[A]

The question is not so much who is bankrolling the weasel and more. If it comes out that Ewan is bankrolling the weasel, would Jerry and Logan be surprised?

[B]

Nah, they're not surprised by any fuckery, to use a succession word.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I mean, they expect Logan can see two moves ahead.

[A]

Right. You know, the minute he hears there's a congressional hearing happening, the first thing he does is he grabs Logan, he grabs Roman and puts him on a plane to Azerbaijan or Scotland or wherever Edward is. He can see where this is going and he needs to cut it off somehow.

[B]

Would being taken private by some murderous. Edwards. I don't know where they're from. Would that actually take. Thank you. Would that take the heat off the situation? I mean, I feel like once your reputation takes such a massive hit, like it would if you have the 60 minute segment and, you know, incident, no real person involved. Like, even if you go private, you're.

[C]

Still like, you get rid of the proxy battle and you get rid of the shareholder concerns.

[B]

So you just go on being dick wads and it doesn't matter.

[A]

I mean, I just have.

[C]

Your.

[A]

Right. You had the right metaphor, Emily, earlier when you said, when you talked about the phone hacking scandal in the uk, which really, you know, was if. If you want something as big as this in real life, this was as big as this in real life in the uk. The entire Murdoch edifice in the UK just was, you know, their reputation was completely ruined, and yet they managed to sort of sail through it while remaining public until very recently. So I think that, yeah, if you manage to avoid all public disclosures and accountability by getting bought out by some Middle Eastern potentate, then that can only help, right?

[B]

Yeah, I guess so.

[C]

And you have the wrong soccer team.

[D]

Hibs.

[B]

Hearts.

[C]

Hibs for Hearts.

[A]

Whatever. Go, you. What is it? You something bastard.

[D]

He says, go, you lovely bastards.

[A]

Really proud to be associated with you guys. Well, what the fuck can I tell.

[D]

You that you don't already know?

[A]

You got all this, Guys, don't worry about it, because you guys are a team. And when a team is a team, they can't actually physically, physically be beaten.

[D]

It's impossible.

[A]

So go hard, go fast.

[D]

Go, you lovely bastards.

[A]

Go, you lovely bastards. Fucking Nova.

[C]

What am I supposed to say?

[A]

Always there with the pep talk is Roman.

[B]

I just love the three of them going on their little trip together. Just a dipshit, a sex pest, and a grand old Duke of Dork on a Central Asian vacation. I just. That was the sex pest. Comic relief.

[D]

Roman must have.

[A]

Wait, which one is the sex pest?

[B]

The one in the back. No. Oh, yeah, he's this. Yeah. Duke of Dork is Laird.

[A]

It's Roman.

[B]

Oh, Roman's a sex pest.

[D]

I don't know.

[A]

Roman's the sex pest.

[B]

Yeah, I think so.

[D]

Maybe he's referring to himself. With all three.

[B]

It'S really just Roman alone. And those are just apparition characters with him.

[A]

Well, seriously, I mean, at the end when they're like, roman, Roy, can you come with us? And he stands up and walks. And then his two, you know, Jamie.

[C]

And Carl are just like, whatever, dude.

[A]

Jamie and Carl just. They just follow him.

[B]

Yeah, they're with him. There's on fire.

[A]

Jamie and Carl, they're just like, well, we're Roman, so we walk with him.

[D]

Proves it.

[B]

Also, one thing I wanted to just note is the scenes this season with Shiv walking places. That's a thing, right?

[C]

Yeah, it is a thing. There's a lot of striding.

[B]

She's always striding and walking with purpose. Like this time through the.

[A]

And walking down those stairs in the middle of the stairs, just like, staring straight ahead as she's going off to Gil's office.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No one else walks like Shiv in this. In this series.

[C]

So 1 thought I had watching this as someone who covered Congress for, like, six years, was they actually did a pretty good job of getting what it feels like to be in hearing. Right. And also, more importantly, the interiors of Congress, like they shot in the Hart Building, or at least if not the actual building, a very, very good facsimile of the Hart Building, which is the newest of the Senate office buildings, named after Phil Hart, former senator from Michigan, who was incredible, man. And that, to me, I don't know, it just. They're good at it. There are often things that are set in fake Washington where you're like, no, no, no, that's not the State Department. The State Department's actually a super ugly building. Like that ornate thing that you have decided is a building is just wrong. Like, this actually felt pretty good.

[D]

I did take issue with the lighting.

[C]

You did take issue with the lighting.

[D]

Because those hearings are always bathed in flat fluorescent light. And this was very theatrical, the lighting.

[B]

Well, I'm glad for that. I think director.

[C]

This is a director.

[B]

This is why we have.

[C]

He notices these things.

[A]

So, Lizzie, when Shiv is striding down the.

[C]

Yeah, that was a made up building.

[A]

Though, in the middle of the stairs to go off to Gil's office. That's the made up building. This is our own made up building. Tell me about the visuals there. Like, is this. This is like the most power exec that we've. And she's been pretty power exec the whole season. Right, right.

[C]

Her, like, trench coat, blazer, dress thing. Yeah.

[B]

No turtleneck.

[C]

This was kind of amazing turtleneck power. Katherine Hepburn pants. Like, this was. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Because, like in the last episode, she had that backless turtleneck.

[C]

Right, right.

[B]

And I recommend that there's a piece in the cut, I think, about all of Shiv's turtlenecks, which I would recommend we could put in the show notes. This is fun to read that because they've definitely been a thing this season.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which I think are.

[C]

I had a lot of quibbles with Shiv's clothes in the previous season, and yet I think I was informed on this podcast that Elizabeth Murdoch was kind of like a random sloppy dresser for a while. So.

[B]

Yeah, I think we thank you whoever said that. In the sea in the first season, we first see Shiv and she's wearing. What's the name of that, like, poncho she's got on?

[C]

Yeah, this, like, big sweater.

[B]

Oh, terrible. And you see it like a Grateful Dead parking lot.

[C]

Anyway, I think there was talk as.

[A]

Well about how, like, the pilot episode of the first season had a relatively limited budget. And then once they started getting the HBO money, then.

[C]

Then it was like, let's put her in some Magnara.

[D]

They bought clothes.

[C]

Yeah, she's getting. She's wearing. She's like a Max Mara girl.

[B]

And there was something about how she took her shoes off on the playground when she was talking to victim lady.

[A]

That was such a good move.

[B]

It was the perfect thing to do. And they had the women together. I hate these shoes, you know?

[C]

Oh, being a woman. Let me take off my shoes. She was convince you to shut up.

[B]

That was kind of her job. Really. It was once again, like the lady. What did she call it like the lady shit work or something. She says to Raya, yeah, it was once again kind of the female card being used to really not serve any female.

[A]

Speaking of Rhea skills, lady duty shift, shit work.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Yes. Speaking of Rhea, yet another scene of Logan, like, screaming after a woman. Like desperately kind of going after Rhea the same way he went after Nan.

[D]

Pierce, throwing himself at the car window. That's one of my lines.

[B]

I'm sorry. This always happens.

[A]

All right, John, what's your favorite line?

[D]

Well, there went another one.

[C]

You're gonna take mine, aren't you?

[D]

I'm try to go with one that I don't think anyone's mentioned yet, which was a Frank line. Are you now or have you ever been a member of the cruise? Dirty fuck party.

[C]

Dirty sex fuck party.

[D]

I'm sorry. Dirty sex fuck party. I was typing as fast as I could.

[C]

I mean, that's just the best. Bringing in McCarthyism and all. Yeah. Oh, damn it, honey, that was my line. I also. What's it like to be married to a man with two assholes, which someone said about Tom to Shiv, was it.

[B]

That was Victor Hugo.

[C]

Victor Hugo, Victor Hugo.

[D]

Fisher Stevens as Victor Hugo.

[C]

Next week, the succession musical.

[A]

Why not Emily?

[B]

Everyone's taken the good ones, but.

[A]

Oh, I have some good ones in my pocket. That's why I'm letting you go.

[D]

Thank you for calling on me first. I really appreciate it.

[B]

I believe it was Frank. I think it was Frank who said if I was to give Tom a letter grade, I'd give him a B for bad plus terrible. I enjoyed that.

[A]

Mine. I loved Jerry's line to Tom where she goes, can you stop angsting? You're angsting me. But the one which stuck with me was. And this was super smart the way they did it. They were right next to each other in the way that it was cut between the subplot and the main plot that you had Edward telling Roman Quote. It's an administrative action function when he was trying to explain what the, you know, terrorist situation was and hostage situation. And then like one minute later, we are in the Senate and Tom goes, senator, I use a variety of target oriented incentives to enhance optimal performance.

[B]

He gets everyone laughing in the room too, which is rare, I think.

[C]

Human. Human footstool.

[A]

Human footstool is a target oriented incentive.

[B]

I'll just leave it there.

[C]

Yeah, there's. I've written down, it's not fun to think you might find a corpse in the freezer. Bluebeard, which I guess someone said to.

[B]

Logan, that was Rhea saying. She was like, she just married the bachelor and she's rearranging his furniture. And then Fun corps.

[C]

I feel like I'm your prophylactic. A rubber you slipped on so I can protect him.

[B]

Rhea, that was not the idea.

[C]

I can see I fulfill a useful role at this point. A more respectable flavor. Secure votes from shaky shareholders.

[A]

You're good. A new broom, you're golden.

[C]

It's fun to be the new bride. Rearranging the bachelor's apartment, putting flowers out. It's just not nice to think you might find a corpse in place the first freezer. You know, Bluebeard.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I always think of Bluebeard's Castle as being like a Bartok opera, but I think it predates that. I'm not sure what the corpse in the freezer reference is to.

[C]

I also.

[A]

But it's definitely to Bluebeard's Castle somehow. Well, what do you think Bluebeard's castle is?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

I thought of a pirate. I don't. I'm very basic.

[D]

I thought she was just calling him.

[A]

No, I think Bluebeard is like an Eastern European king who had all manner of amazing, I guess, corpses in this freezer.

[C]

I want to live in your brain for 30 minutes.

[B]

You don't want to keep the fridge. You want to keep your corpses in the freezer, not the fridge. I think is obvious to all of them.

[D]

I mean, unless you're going to eat it in the next five days, don't.

[A]

Keep them in the sauna in Iceland or whatever. Oh, boy. Give them the silica mud treatment.

[B]

Did you guys catch When Logan's trying to explain to Rhea the history of just again fuckery at Waystar Royco and he says something to her that's like, did you ever have an editor who put his hand up your sweater.

[C]

And.

[B]

It was like, what are you talking about? We're talking about like women going overboard on cruise ships. And he's like, did anyone ever touch you inappropriately? Come now. That's all this is. I was kind of watching that.

[C]

I was like, well, that describes actually several people I've worked for and places I've worked.

[B]

But yeah, she just kind of.

[A]

I guess the implication there is that Rhea, once upon a time was a journalist.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's what I thought too. That she came up there.

[A]

If she hadn't edited, that means that she was a journalist.

[D]

So that confused me for a second.

[A]

And if she was a journalist, that means she was a journalist who then became CEO and that is another reference not only to the Bancrofts, but also to the Murdochs. Right. Because the. Because Dow Jones was run by. What was his name? Peter Gann, something like that. Who. The CEO of Dow Jones was a former journalist. And of course, the CEO of News Corps is Robert Thompson, who's also a former journalist.

[C]

I. You know, it's funny. I didn't actually take it that way. I thought it was, like, didn't you have a former editor? Like, wasn't there some Pierce former editor who must have done that? But I think you all are probably correct.

[B]

I think both.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, her little inspirational, lying speech, I feel like was extremely accurate to the way that business people tend to talk.

[C]

Oh. Specifically to newspapers.

[B]

To newsletters. Yeah. Like, whenever I've been at any company and there's been layoffs or whatever, you always get that, like, very cheery, don't worry kind of speech. And I was just thinking how this undermines every speech I'll ever hear again and every speech I've heard in the past.

[A]

Is anyone here watching the loudest voice? Because I started watching it, I didn't get very far, but there was lots of inspirational lying speeches by Russell Crowe playing Roger Ailes. Oh. And. And, yeah, I wonder. I don't know. I feel maybe I've just been in the wrong news organizations, but I've never encountered an inspirational speech from anyone.

[B]

Or maybe I was thinking more of, like, the reassuring speech after something bad happens where you're told everything's gonna be okay.

[C]

I've definitely been on the receiving end of those.

[A]

Yeah. I've never been reassured by one of those.

[B]

Really, Felix, you're missing out.

[A]

Maybe I'm just too soon.

[C]

You mean you've never been reassured or you've never had one of those, like, land weirdly on you? I've definitely gotten speeches from executives where I'm like, that's terrible. We're all screwed.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, so how do you think it landed with that little baby speech that Rhea gives where she's like, we've got nothing to feel guilty about. Do you think that was the right, correct and successful piece of inspirational rhetoric, or do you think everyone just looked at her and. And rolled their eyes?

[B]

I think they took it as, like, that's the line we're going to take. Because, like, when they're watching the 60 Minutes episode, they can barely watch it. First of all, they can't stop talking over it.

[A]

And. And they can't stop saying, like, it's bad. It's really bad. And Posturing. It's really, really bad.

[C]

But also being, like, walks in and.

[A]

Says, no, that's fine.

[B]

Yeah. But while they're watching that. Yeah, this is nothing. Like, this guy's a liar and he.

[C]

Oh, he doesn't know anything.

[B]

Oh, like, they.

[D]

That's just like, nobody's reassured. Nobody's reassured. I mean, that's what the end of the episode is, is that Logan is convinced he has to do something very drastic.

[B]

What's it going to be?

[A]

Because ultimately, the shareholders are going to vote. They're going to want Sandy and Stewie to take over rather than keep the Logan family in charge. And they're more dangerous than Gil or the Senate.

[C]

Yeah, definitely.

[B]

Also, I should ask you this, John. Why is there someone named Gill and someone named Gilliard? Why would you do that? As a writer, it's very confusing.

[D]

I can't explain it.

[B]

Okay. It upset me.

[D]

Although I am curious about. Since you mentioned names, I'm curious that the name McClintock appears in succession. And Veep. It's Lester's last name. We said it's also Mike McClintock, the bumbling press secretary in Veep. I don't know. Some poor McClintock in the Iannucci orbit who's being trolled in both shows.

[B]

I bet there's something there. I feel like there are those writers.

[C]

Who use David Simon does that. He had an editor he did not like and named a character in the Wire who he did not like that particular last name. Oh, I love that.

[A]

As you do. Okay, so let's wrap this one up.

[B]

Toodlepip.

[A]

You guys are all convinced that it's like, I want to know what's happening in episode 10 in the grand finale. Because, you know, season one, the final episode, was jaw on the floor stuff. Can season two final episode live up to that?

[C]

What was season one's final episode?

[A]

Was that the wedding that was Kendall's manslaughter?

[B]

It was rather.

[C]

And the Chappaquiddick.

[B]

And the Chappaquiddick. Exactly. Oh, man, are we gonna be late with the finale. We should tell people that.

[A]

Yeah. So don't expect Slate Money Succession to come out on Monday morning because we're gonna see it on Sunday night along with the rest of you. We will come into the studio, record it on Monday morning, and then we will rush it out just as quick as the Amazing Jessamy and Molly can get it all done. But we will have a recap of the final episode. And all I want for Christmas is for season two, episode 10, to be half as good as season one episode, the final episode, because that was an amazing episode.

[C]

I'm just sad there's only one more. I'm, like, genuinely troubled.

[B]

There's gonna be another season, though.

[D]

I think that next episode is gonna be absolutely packed.

[A]

But there will be a blood sacrifice. We have been promised a blood sacrifice. I want.

[D]

Yes.

[A]

I want blood.

[B]

Well, you can't make a blood.

[C]

We all thought Kendall. Is that too obvious? I don't know.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Should we. I think it is Kendall.

[C]

I think it's Kendall.

[D]

But he's gonna give the order for.

[B]

Somebody to shoot Roman, or literally, Roman will be dead, and that will be the blood sacrifice.

[D]

It's actually Logan organized the whole hostage situation.

[A]

The arc of season two is Roman. You know, we haven't heard anything about the exploding rocket. Basically, in season two, it was some thoughts.

[B]

It was fine.

[A]

There was, you know, a couple of things at the beginning, and then a couple of forgotten, and now who needs them? And now Roman is being set up as the person to somehow save the day. I know that would be a bit weird. If that happens.

[C]

Maybe Hiltra is still gonna be Shiv.

[B]

Maybe he'll get a minor injury. Like a graze. A bullet will graze him or something. We need a hospital scene and, like.

[C]

Make him grow up.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

This is his, like, Prince Hal becomes Henry V moment. I doubt it.

[A]

Do we think that Tom and Greg are going to jail?

[B]

No. No, because Greg could sell out Tom and avoid jail that way.

[C]

He could. I feel like Greg is weaselly enough that he's holding onto that. Maybe not to go to the feds, but maybe he still has to bring it to Logan and be like, pay me.

[D]

Because he doesn't want to be the one person. He's still got those two pieces of paper in his pants. He's going to whip them out.

[A]

They're still there.

[C]

They've been there. That's terrible.

[A]

He's going to open up his very uncomfortable. Whip out his piece of paper.

[D]

It's two pieces of paper.

[A]

Logan would be so unimpressed by that. Can anyone explain why Greg made the decision that he made and gave up his $250 million for the sake of working for Logan?

[C]

Because he's dumb.

[B]

I think that that's it. He's genuinely shocked.

[C]

Skin over his head when they tell.

[B]

Him $5 million is, like, not enough money. He's genuinely shocked to learn that, but seems to believe it at the same time. Yeah, I think he's dumb is a good answer. Lizzie's got.

[A]

Yeah, he's got that kind of, like, Dr. Evil Blank look on his face. What, you mean a million dollars isn't $1 million?

[B]

That's the worst amount of money.

[D]

Apparently, Logan flattered him pretty recently, and I think he's easily.

[A]

He didn't flatter him very much.

[D]

No. But I think it was enough for Greg. I think it was enough for Greg.

[C]

Like all of these people, I'm just like, take the money and walk. It's toxic. It's terrible. Just walk.

[B]

That's what Kendall told Naomi.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And she did it. And she does seem better now, right?

[C]

She was at the.

[A]

Well, she didn't. Well, she didn't get the money in the end.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Pierce is still under family control.

[B]

You're correct.

[D]

Greg may be dumb, but he's ambitious. So I think it's just like Tom.

[A]

Just like Tom. I think. John, I think you've nailed it there. Like, he. This is the only way that he can ever have any vague semblance of professional success in his life, because he's clearly completely incompetent. He needs to do it via nepotism. And so he decides to take that route.

[B]

Well, let's see what happens.

[C]

I mean, that's why he's sticking around all the wagon.

[A]

Wham scans.

[C]

Okay, so can I just say one thing? Because before I came on this podcast, I always said that if I was on this podcast, I would just want to say my parents made a contribution to the wine.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

The great wham Scams. Lines of succession. I mean, that's a deep cut there.

[C]

Lizzie, thank you.

[A]

That's all the way from season one. So, Lizzie, thank you for making a contribution to the wine, which was a great line. John, thank you for coming on. It was awesome to have someone who actually understands how these things are structured.

[D]

And if you say so.

[A]

Jessamine, Molly, thank you for producing this. Many thanks to all of you. Many thanks to Emily. And we will be back next week with the grand finale of Sleep Money Succession.

[B]

That was so much fun.

[D]

Are we supposed to sing?

[B]

Can we add that?

[C]

Me singing Bong.

[A]

Bong.