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- [00:00]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
Foreign.
- [00:13]
Slate Money Travel Host
Welcome back to Sleep Money Travel. This is a good one this week. We have Kim Barrington Narazetti here, who has traveled pretty much all over the world. This is not unusual among Slate Money Travel guests, but the. The thing that Kim has is you've done it pretty much all with kids. You have a whole publishing empire called Urban Crayon Press. You have a book out called Traveling to Delhi With Kids. Like, you actually have like an entire professional existence around this whole thing, which I think people are quite terrified of.
- [00:49]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
People shouldn't be terrified of traveling with kids because you have them anyway. And it's your job to make sure that you all enjoy your vacation. When you're vacationing together, vacation should not be stressful. It should be the basis of planning another vacation. I had so much fun doing this. Let me take another vacation with my kids.
- [01:06]
Slate Money Travel Host
So we are going to talk about how to get kids to eat exciting and exotic food. We're going to talk about trying to plan out where the nearest bathroom is. We're going to talk about the importance of naps. This is not the first time we're going to talk about the importance of naps on this show, but it's even more important when you're traveling with kids. We are going to talk about potatoes because apparently there is a point at which kids are basically potatoes. I love that point. We're going to have a whole great conversation. All of this coming up on Slate Money Travel. So, Kim, you have lived all over the world.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
Yes, I have.
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Slate Money Travel Host
With kids. Which has given you the opportunity. I mean, obviously the thing you do when you're living in wonderful places like northern Europe or India is like, I have to go see these places. And you, you have kids in tow, so obviously you bring the kids with you. And so you are now officially the expert on how to do that, right?
- [02:01]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
My kids don't think I'm the expert at anything because they're teenagers, but I feel like I'm an expert on traveling with them.
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Slate Money Travel Host
And how was it? Did they love it or did they always feel like they were being sort of dragged around the world when they just wanted to be in their room?
- [02:14]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
I think they loved it because the fact that we lived in Belgium for five years and India for five years and they were always on a plane to come back to the US to see family. So they were used to that travel bug. And when they were in the lyce, so they had a winter stodge. So we took that opportunity in February to see places around Belgium or see places around India when we lived in Delhi. So the kids have always felt that we are always planning the next trip and they were always involved in the planning. So they got excited about it.
- [02:45]
Slate Money Travel Host
There you go. So get them involved in the planning, get them excited. That's the trick.
- [02:49]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
That is absolutely the trick. When they're younger, I look at my kids in phases from zero to five, when they're basically potatoes. You can pick them up, you can take them wherever you want, you can save money on airfare because they're lap kids. And then they have the five to 10 year scenario where you have to look at the school calendar. But then five to 10 years, they're more interested in Disney, they're interested in kids clubs. So you plan trips according to that. Then when you get into the tween and teens, they're looking to go off skate, they want to basically sleep, so that's a consideration. But then they want to do things like go horseback riding or go snorkeling. So you have to basically get them involved early. And the fact that the kids were always involved in travel, they'll say, how about, you know, Thailand this year? Or let's go to the Caribbean, or let's do a staycation. We've done staycations being in New York where we have actually just booked a hotel and gone to see Broadway plays like we are tourists and then eat bad food at Times Square.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Oh my God, you've actually been in the Olive Garden at Times Square.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
Unfortunately, yes. But there are no photos to document the appearance.
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Slate Money Travel Host
I've heard tell of this place, but. So they have a lovely home in Brooklyn, but they actually get excited about staying in a Times Square hotel because my idea of like the eighth circle of hell is having to stay in the Times Square Hotel.
- [04:09]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
I think they get excited about staying in Times Square Hotel because Brooklyn has so much now that even when friends invite us to dinner in Manhattan, we're like, do we need our passport to get there? So in going to Manhattan, they do feel like they're going somewhere different, because I think it's a different vibe being in Manhattan and being in Brooklyn. So when they go to Manhattan, they know it's the theater, they know it's the bright lights in the big city. You know, nothing really closes down. And then when they're in Brooklyn, they're walking the dog. So it's almost like we are stepping away from our daily existence.
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Slate Money Travel Host
The main question I have about traveling with kids is this whole question of hotel rooms. Because it strikes me that most hotel rooms are not really Set up.
- [04:51]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
I think it depends on which change you like. I like going to the Marriott because I think they cater to families. I like going to the Hyatt. I also like the Westin. And sometimes you can go to, you know, the Ritz Carlton and get a deal with the kids. But I again, in looking at how I've divided my travel with the kids and the age limit with when they were little, I looked at rooms that were basically one big bed, so we can pile in and, or, and had room for a rollaway bed or a crib. But then as they got older, then you get into the two double beds. But then as they get older, older, you want outdoor space too, because they want to be able to go outside and read a book, or if you get a garden suite, they're able to, you know, people watch and still look at the ocean. So I think you basically have to adjust your thinking based on the personality of your kids and what they like to do. The fact that I have a 13 year old and a 17 year old and they, you know, fight about clothes and they fight about Netflix, they fight about certain things. But they both very inquisitive and curious and they like their downtime. They both love to read. So I would book a place with even a balcony so they can go outside and be separate and, you know, spend time reading or spend time on Snapchat without having the other one looking over their shoulder.
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Slate Money Travel Host
And when they're younger especially, presumably, I've had this idea that this was always the massive comparative advantage of Airbnb over hotels is that it just makes it so much easier to sort of cook what the kids like, make some breakfast, and maybe even have, you know, make it much easier to have separate rooms for them. Do you feel like you kind of missed out on the Airbnb boom and it would have been easier if it had been around?
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
Not really, because historically, because I have spent the last 17 years abroad and working from home, whether writing books or writing articles or traveling, I felt that a vacation for me was being away from the kitchen. So I had a tendency to maybe have a refrigerator and microwave for popcorn or something like that. But I think the vacation is not just for the kids. The vacation is also for the family.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Remember that?
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
Yes. So I did not feel that I needed that stove because you can always find pancakes or you can always find, you know, crepes according to where you're located, or a nice baguette. So I think it was an opportunity for the kids to experiment and try different foods and different cuisines. And, you know, I always made sure that they were polite or they ordered in the language. If we're in Paris, they would order in French. So always made sure that they ordered in the language where they were. So it was always a teaching moment for me when the kids were on vacation.
- [07:29]
Slate Money Travel Host
How do you get kids to get excited about food they've never eaten before?
- [07:35]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
I think with my kids, and it's unusual, the fact that I was born in Trinidad and their father was born in India, they now have an eclectic mix of food. So my kids have always eaten chicken feet and oxtail and, you know, goat and dosas and idlis. So they always were willing to try something new. So I would always say, just give it a chance. And I think, you know, we would always prepare them for a trip. So if, you know, you're going to Thailand on vacation, you start ordering Thai food or you go to Thai restaurants, so they become familiar with the cuisine. But my kids like octopus and they like, you know, buffalo, and they've eaten rabbit and they like oysters, because I think they live in New York, they have an opportunity to try different things. And the fact is, we gone on many conferences and so forth and taken the kids. So they. They have had an opportunity to be exposed to different cuisines. I think, you know, when I went to South Africa and I had a plate of mapani worms put in front of me, which is basically fried caterpillar. It looked like fried caterpillar, but I tried it, and, you know, everything tastes like chicken.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Well, not everything tastes like chicken feet because those things are bony.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
But. But you have to take the nails off. Then, you know, the aesthetics of that, you know, it's not very good.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Basically, food thing is fine just as long as you take the nails off.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
The chicken feet, as long as you take the nails off the chicken feet, then I think everyone's willing to eat it.
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Slate Money Travel Host
I'm gonna get so many emails from the parents of picky eaters who are like, I cannot even imagine a world where my kid would be happy as long as you took the nails off the chicken feet.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
But it's delicious.
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Slate Money Travel Host
You've clearly managed to work this one out.
- [09:10]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
I think it's a difference when you make a business out of traveling with kids. My first book, I'm a former journalist, but my first book, when I was living in Belgium, was traveling, traveling to Paris with kids because I didn't speak French very well. I still don't speak French very well. And I realized you had to adjust your thinking with Kids, restaurants in Paris will welcome dogs. They wouldn't welcome kids. But then when you have kids, you don't want to go down cobblestone streets with a stroller. So I would advise parents, and maybe you can put a smaller child in a backpack or a Baby Bjorn at the time versus, you know, just carrying them with a stroller. So I think you then have to observe what works for you as a parent. You know, when they're younger kids, clubs work when you're younger. You know, activities work, planes that have ports to charge, DVD players. So with every stage with the kids, you have to see how they're adapting and how you're adapting as a family. And I think if you do a lot of pre planning to get the best sales, to get the best packages, I think you end up with a really robust family vacation. And as they get older, you don't take them to Greece when they're three, you take them to Greece when they're 15, because they'll remember Greece and they'll be able to relate something they learned in school about Greece. So you also have to decide, is this worth it to take this vacation now because. Or is it worth it to have the kids have something they can actually remember?
- [10:29]
Slate Money Travel Host
I think, you know, now that the overwhelming majority of parents are millennials, you know, I think we've had this idea around the sort of ether for a while that package holidays are kind of a little bit basic. But on some level, does it make sense when you have small kids to just like, go to some bundler which will bundle everything up and buy a package?
- [10:51]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
Oh, absolutely. And I. And when I, when the kids were little, I thought cruising was a really good option because I felt you had seven vacations in one because you were on the cruise ship with all the activities that it offered, and it had a kids club and it had climbing walls, and it had, you know, the baby pool and the adult pool, and you had a plethora of lounge chairs. But every day, if you're in a different port, you're able to do something with the kids also. And these package deals, you end up saving money up front. Then you can spend your money when you get to your destination, on tours, on visits. So I think it makes sense for a parent who's looking to maximize how they spend their money.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Okay, this is the big one. You're in a strange town in a strange country. Like, when you're just exploring on your own, there's that whole kind of idea of like, I don't know what's around the next corner. It's exciting. But is there a point at which you need a little bit more predictability? You need to know what you're doing when you're with kids that you can't especially, and I have this in the back of my head especially just like finding bathrooms.
- [11:57]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
Yes. I think you definitely need to plan with kids because you can ask them a million times, do you need to use the bathroom? No. Do you need to use the bathroom? No. And you will get on a bus. I need to use the bathroom. So I think you need to have 70% of planning and 30% of spontaneity. If you happen to pass something on a bus and say, hey, that looks interesting, you can tuck it in the back of your mind. You can revisit later in the afternoon or the next day. But for the most part with kids, especially little kids, they probably still need their nap. They probably still need a snack at a certain time. You have to be able to manage that and not feel that. I took an hour to get to this museum. Now we have to turn around because the kids are cranky.
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Slate Money Travel Host
The other problem with that, of course, between like the nap schedules and the snack schedules and everything is you have to tie in the whole jet lag thing.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
You do have to time to jet lag things. I think if you're going someplace where the time difference is three or four hours, you have to build in time to actually enjoy that place. When we knew we were going from Belgium back to the U.S. you're actually landing at 3:00 in the afternoon. So the jet lag wasn't that bad. So we would stay here for about 10 days if it was the kids break. But if you're going back to India to visit friends after we had moved from India, you would have to actually factor in 14 to 15 days because you spend the first three days sleeping. Because it's about, about a nine and a half hour difference.
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Slate Money Travel Host
So take your time. Don't try and squeeze like four day holidays in with kids.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
You can squeeze four day holiday in, but you can't squeeze in a four day holiday in a seven day place.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Okay?
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
So if you're flying to Hawaii, you can't say I'm gonna fly to Hawaii and stay there for four days. Because you lose so much time flying to Hawaii, sometimes people don't factor that in.
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Slate Money Travel Host
And once the kids stop being potatoes, like the, the plane ticket bit of traveling obviously just becomes more expensive cause you have more humans who are taking up seats. But beyond just the plane tickets, how much of a kind of multiplier do kids have on the cost of holidays?
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
I think when they get to a certain age, they want souvenirs. I felt in taking the kids to Disney from Maryland when I was visiting family over the summer, it would have been cheaper if we all got on a plane and flew to Bali. Because being in Disney for a day, you're actually spending $1,000 a day. When you factor in the T tickets and you factor in the food every time they eat, it's about $150 for four people and the soda starts at like $9 and then the princess dresses and the hats. So I think you have to factor in the food budget, which could end up being a lot. If you decide to rent a car, you have to factor that in. So I think base vacation, you always have to add probably 50% more based on what you plan on doing on.
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Slate Money Travel Host
That vacation, because it's just, yeah, they're expensive, but on some level they have to be worth it.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
They are worth it because you have to think that you made a decision to have the kids. The kids didn't make the decision to come here. So while they're here, you have to do things as a family that will prepare them to do things with their own family.
- [15:05]
Slate Money Travel Host
So what's the trip that you feel like you learn the most from traveling with kids or from your kids where like you kind of wound up somewhere and did something which you probably wouldn't have done if it wasn't for the kids and you're like, oh my, that was great for me.
- [15:21]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
I think it was just past summer. My 13 year old turned 13, Zola, and her birthday is three days before my birthday. So technically I convince her that every year when we take a trip, it's for her, but it's actually for me. And we went to the Grand Cayman Islands and we went horseback riding and we went snorkeling and I, you know, am afraid of horses, but I got on a horse, so that was exciting. And I think when you look at opportunities to just go off the beaten path, it's exciting. And, you know, it makes you think that as an adult you do things for your kids, but you also know that you're doing things for yourself. Because I have a bucket list of vacations that didn't involve horseback riding. However, this is something I think I'll be willing to try somewhere else because it's scenic and it's calming and you're with a group of other people. It's not just you. So you're also meeting people from France, you're meeting people from the Caribbean, you're meeting people from the US and you kind of bond in this part of your activities.
- [16:28]
Slate Money Travel Host
So next up, you'll be, like, horseback riding across the Hindu Kush for two weeks.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
I don't think I'll go that far. I might eat my way across the Hindu Kush, but I won't. Horseback ride.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Yeah, eating your way across the Hindu Kush. That. That. That's fun. So I think we'll just end with the same question that I asked Catherine Ma, which is like, what's. What's your favorite food city?
- [16:48]
Kim Barrington Narazetti
I would say my favorite food city is probably Delhi, because people talk about Deli Belly. However, I think there's such a high turnover with street food that you don't actually get sick. I have gotten sick eating at the Imperial Hotel because they don't want to waste anything. So last night's fish will today's, you know, tuna salad. So when you're dealing with street food, it's affordable, it's tasty, there's lots of variety, and the turnover is so fast that you're really. Nothing's really sitting around to spoil. So I think you have Indian Chinese, which is fabulous. Then you have the chaat, which is fabulous. And then you have, you know, North Indian food and South Indian food. So I think you have such a big variety that you really can go wrong with anything that you want to try.
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Slate Money Travel Host
All right.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
Right.
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Slate Money Travel Host
I'm heading straight to Delhi. I'm gonna eat nothing but street food for weeks. It's gonna be amazing.
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Kim Barrington Narazetti
Don't do that. You have to ease into it.
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Slate Money Travel Host
Yeah, I'm English. What can I say? I grew up with Indian food. I love it so much. Kim, thank you so much for coming on. It's been awesome, and. Yeah. And thanks for listening to Slate Money.