Slate Money: Travel – Ghosts

Date: March 5, 2019
Hosts: Felix Salmon (Axios), Colin Nagy (Fred & Farid, Skift)

Episode Overview

This episode of Slate Money Travel explores the deeper dimensions of the hotel and hospitality industry, delving into what makes certain hotels memorable, why travelers will pay extra for “good” hotels, and how intangibles—sometimes described as “ghosts”—create magic and loyalty. Host Felix Salmon and guest Colin Nagy, a strategist and hospitality columnist, share insights on design, service, loyalty programs, branding, and the evolving competitive landscape of hotels, all peppered with personal anecdotes and expertise from years spent traveling and reviewing hotels.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining “Ghosts” in Hospitality

• Intangibles and Atmosphere:
  • Colin explains the concept of “ghosts” as the ineffable qualities and history that imbue some hotels with atmosphere beyond design or amenities (01:35).
    • "Ghosts create the intangible magic of a place sometimes … you feel something beyond the space." – Colin Nagy [01:42]
  • These “ghosts”—spirit, memory, authenticity—can make a hotel addictive and special without being visible or tangible.

2. What Makes a Memorable Hotel?

• Service, Design, and Details:
  • Beyond location and convenience, great hotels stand out through unique design, seamless service, and staff interactions that create moments of magic and “anticipation” (04:36–05:31).
    • “The intangible of a great hotel is to make you feel welcome, to kind of sand down any of the friction points and to have this empathy, anticipation, and attention to detail.” – Colin [05:14]
• Personalization:
  • Exceptional hotels make guests feel unique—almost like friends instead of transactions—and this is what breeds real loyalty.
• Examples:
  • Park Hyatt Tokyo: Immaculately run, precise, and emotionally resonant despite its depiction as sterile in "Lost in Translation" (06:20–07:53).
    • “It’s this place that I think is representative of hospitality at its highest form.” – Colin [06:48]
  • Grand historic hotels (e.g., Raffles, Savoy): Comfort in tradition, elegance, and not bowing to modern trends.

3. Experiential Value and Willingness to Pay

• Romance and Theater:
  • Staying at legendary hotels is like participating in a theatrical production or Coral Reef of guests—people pay for this romance, history, and sense of being part of something bigger (11:59–13:29).
    • “When you look at it as theater and not just a transaction or a place to sleep, then that kind of opens the door.” – Colin [11:59]
• Even Slight Upgrades Matter:
  • In mid-range choices, extra cost for “better” hotels often reflects small but significant experiential differences—more welcoming staff, cozier environments, or superior common areas (14:16–15:11).
    • E.g., The Cortina in Munich, with its intimate bar and caring staff, versus “solid Germanic hotels.”

4. Brands, Predictability, and Loyalty

• Value and Pitfalls of Brands:
  • Brands (Hyatt, Marriott, Hilton, etc.) provide predictability—good water pressure, safe neighborhoods, reliable service (20:12).
    • “What these hotels are selling in many ways is predictability… That consistency across a brand, regardless of the price tier, is important.” – Colin [20:22]
  • Oversaturation: Too many brands chasing the same market can confuse travelers, reducing hotels to “numbers and thumbnails” in online search (21:30–22:31).
• Loyalty Programs vs True Loyalty:
  • For most, loyalty is driven by reward programs and convenience, not by emotional attachment to any specific brand (24:14).
    • “The loyalty is, what is the best possible experience in terms of the tier that I can get for my money or points. So I think sometimes the loyalty to a program almost subsumes the loyalty to a specific brand.” – Colin [24:27]

5. Business Travel Realities

• Corporate Contracts and Negotiations:
  • Many high-end business travelers stay in bland but pricey chain hotels due to corporate rates and contracts—sometimes deeply discounted compared to “rack rate” (25:41–28:03).
    • “It’s a volume game… what rack rate is relative to what someone from a global corporation is paying is astounding.” – Colin [27:17]
• Enhanced Service for “Real” VIPs:
  • At the very top, true luxury guests receive incredible, personalized service—even “remove a wall” special requests (28:20).

6. Insider Tips for Booking Hard-to-Get Hotels

• Direct Outreach:
  • When online booking fails, a personal and polite email to a hotel’s GM can sometimes unlock special access or upgrades (30:11–31:10).
    • “If you’re showing interest in a property … the inherent elegance of this profession will kind of come forward and make something nice happen for you.” – Colin [30:28]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "Ghosts create the intangible magic of a place sometimes...you feel something beyond the space." – Colin Nagy [01:42]
• "When you stay at a truly exceptional hotel … it's almost as if everything runs as a Swiss watch..." – Colin [05:04]
• "When you look at it as theater and not just a transaction ... you're stepping into a stage set that almost changes every day." – Colin [11:59]
• "A lot of our attraction to these spaces...they’re not conscious things. Sometimes these are subconscious things. The smell of a lobby when you come in..." – Colin [17:09]
• "Brands are selling predictability...but the notion of brand is not as relevant as a lot of people think it is, because the OTAs ... reduce you to just a number and a review and a thumbnail image." – Colin [20:22, 21:13]
• "The loyalty is, what is the best possible experience in terms of the tier that I can get for my money or points. So I think sometimes the loyalty to a program almost subsumes the loyalty to a specific brand." – Colin [24:27]
• "It’s a volume game...what rack rate is relative to what someone from a global corporation is paying is astounding." – Colin [27:17]
• "The polite email or the polite phone call to one of these men or women...some doors can unlock for you." – Colin [31:10]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:10: Episode intro; Colin Nagy’s background
• 01:35: Introduction to “ghosts” in hospitality
• 04:36: What makes a hotel worth paying more for?
• 06:20–08:43: Discussion of Park Hyatt Tokyo and hotel atmosphere
• 09:59–11:22: Grand historic hotels and their unique appeal
• 13:29–15:11: The allure of famous hotels and the small differences that justify higher prices
• 17:09–18:49: Design, “third place” dynamics, and subconscious cues
• 20:12–22:31: Hotel brands, consistency, and the rise of loyalty to programs/OTAs
• 24:14–25:03: Loyalty plans vs actual brand loyalty
• 25:41–28:03: Corporate travel realities and “rack rate” economics
• 30:11–31:10: Insider booking tip—direct, polite email to the General Manager

Conclusion & Tone

Lively, insightful, and candid, this episode pulls back the curtain on what makes certain hotels beloved (or soulless), how intangible “ghosts” and atmosphere are as critical as physical amenities, and why travelers’ loyalty is often about points and predictability rather than love for a brand. Colin Nagy emphasizes the value of hospitality as a creative act, and both hosts share concrete strategies for travelers seeking memorable or hard-to-book stays. The tone is conversational and curious, with mutual appreciation for the magic—visible and invisible—that great hospitality offers.