Succession: "Weevils in the Flour Sack"

Summary

Slate Money Podcast Summary

Episode: Succession - “Weevils in the Flour Sack” (Season 3, Episode 1 Recap)

Date: October 18, 2021
Host: Felix Salmon (A), with co-hosts Emily Peck (B) and guest Janine Gibson (C)

---

Overview of the Episode

This episode of Slate Money dives into the much-anticipated opening of Succession’s third season. The discussion focuses on the fallout from Kendall’s explosive press conference at the end of Season 2, the state of limbo for the Roy family and their associates, and the shifting power dynamics at Waystar Royco. The hosts explore the episode’s portrayal of chaos, uncertainty, and the relentless jockeying for position at the top of a crumbling empire.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Immediate Fallout: Flight, Fear, and Limbo

[02:00 - 05:20]

• Season 3 opens exactly where Season 2 ends: Logan and the Roy inner circle scrambling, unsure where to go post-Kendall’s betrayal.
• The group is stranded in airports and hotels, hiding from potential legal ramifications.
• Notable quote [03:23, C]:
  “It's also very uncomfortable for the viewer because...all of the characters are in this weird limbo in a kind of purgatory where none of them can go home.”
• The sense of rootlessness is literal and metaphorical; none can settle or plan, which viewers feel viscerally.

2. The Glass Cliff and Jerry as CEO

[05:20 - 09:46]

• Logan unexpectedly appoints Jerry as interim CEO—a classic “glass cliff” scenario (promoting a woman just as things are falling apart).
• Notable quote [06:28, C]: “This is the Full Baskin Robbins 31 flavors of fuck right there.”
• The hosts marvel at the idea anyone wants the CEO job, which currently seems cursed.
• Discussion of how Jerry’s appointment is more about optics and placating critics than ceding real control, with Logan wanting to still call the shots.

3. Corporate Crisis Strategy and Realism

[10:06 - 11:31]

• Logan’s crisis management is both performative and ruthlessly pragmatic.
• He tries to tie up top law firms to prevent them from representing adversaries—a real-world tactic.
• Notable quote [10:25, A]:
  "He’s basically got this strategy of tying up every single conceivable lawyer who might be any good at this...and I was like, that’s like, yeah, that’s real."
• The hosts appreciate how closely the show's writers model actual high-stakes corporate crisis playbooks.

4. The Battle for Legal Ace: Lisa Arthur

[11:31 - 14:22]

• Both sides race to secure high-profile attorney Lisa Arthur (a composite, plausibly inspired by Gloria Allred or Lisa Bloom).
• The hosts dissect Shiv attempting to conflict Lisa out to block Kendall from hiring her, showing Shiv’s calculated competence.
• Notable quote [13:33, A]:
  "There’s been a couple of instances...where Shiv actually does show herself to be incredibly competent and quite good at what she does."

5. Kendall’s False Bravado and Lack of a Plan

[14:22 - 17:17]

• Post-press conference, Kendall appears triumphant but quickly reveals he has no actual plan.
• He clumsily seeks validation from PR strategists, his ex-wife, girlfriend, even cousin Greg.
• Notable quote [15:43, A]:
  "He did this great, like, mic drop moment...then it turns out he has no plan at all."
• [16:44, C]:
  "You can kind of tell when he’s all like...this is not someone who is actually in control of what they're doing or has a clue what they're doing."
• His nervous mania becomes a running theme—a man in over his head, desperate for affirmation.

6. Greg’s Role: Clueless, Useless, and Yet Crucial

[19:00 - 22:13]

• The hosts discuss Greg’s bifurcated role as both bumbling and accidentally pivotal (having provided Kendall with the key cruise documents).
• Notable quote [19:00, A/B]:
  Greg: "This is like OJ except if OJ Never killed anyone."
  Kendall (smiling): "Who said I never killed anyone?"
• Greg is essential yet incompetent—a running joke and a link between various power players.

7. Jerry’s Competence and Corporate Survival

[22:13 - 25:01]

• The hosts agree Jerry is the most clear-headed and effective in the crisis, which is why Logan leans on her.
• She is strategic, avoids mess, and executes well, making her appointment as CEO make sense.
• Notable quote [24:32, A]:
  "She’s just a very straightforward person, Shiv."

8. Lingering Issues: Who Goes Down?

[25:14 - 29:35]

• Debate over who (if anyone) might actually face jail time, with Tom and possibly Greg considered likely scapegoats.
• Shiv is the only major Roy seemingly shielded by plausible deniability.
• Notable quote [27:19, C]:
  "Logan Roy is not going to jail. Nobody goes [to jail]. Somebody else will go to jail, but that will be somebody who is not a blood relative..."

9. Side Characters: Hugo and Karolina

[31:00 - 32:18]

• PR shuffle: Karolina gets unceremoniously kicked out by Kendall; Hugo becomes more prominent, despite his unctuousness.
• The hosts note the pettiness and volatility of this new power structure.

10. Mirroring Real World and Series Continuity

[30:00 - 33:33]

• The hosts emphasize how the show's writers draw on real-life corporate scandals, keeping the show grounded but heightened.
• The Roy clan’s instinct is always to splinter and lawyer up at the first sign of trouble.
• Notable quote [33:11, C]:
  "The reaction of this family is to immediately break apart into tiny huddles, try and form an alliance and hire a shitload of lawyers."

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Glass Cliff for Jerry ([05:58, B]):
  "This is the ultimate glass cliff moment...a woman gets made CEO just at the point where everything turns to shit."
• Roman Roy’s Pitch ([06:43, C]):
  "Obviously I want it, but...if you don't think I'm ready, then maybe I don't want it."
• Logan's Ruthless Wisdom ([07:42, C]):
  "If I start picking scabs and saying sorry, who knows where we'll end up?"
• Kendall’s Delusions ([15:04, A]):
  "He needs to be told by an underling—Yeah I don’t think they’re going to let you into the building."
• Frank is ‘Mashed Potatoes’ ([34:42, A/B]):
  "You’re not trusted, you mashed potatoes!"
• Roman to Jerry ([36:13, A]):
  "I’d lay you badly, but I’d lay you gladly."
• Roman’s Cronyism ([23:11, A/C]):
  "If it ain't Romy time, maybe it's crony time."

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening chaos and rootlessness: 02:00 – 05:20
• Jerry named CEO, glass cliff, and the poison chalice: 05:20 – 09:46
• Corporate legal wrangling & realism: 10:06 – 11:31
• Race for Lisa Arthur & legal maneuvers: 11:31 – 14:22
• Kendall’s unraveling and PR spectacle: 14:22 – 17:17
• Greg’s importance & relationship to Kendall: 19:00 – 22:13
• Jerry’s strategic value & character analysis: 22:13 – 25:01
• Speculating on jail time and outcomes: 25:14 – 29:35
• Side character shakeups (Hugo, Karolina): 31:00 – 32:18
• Epigrams, favorite lines, and closing reflections: 34:11 – end

---

In the Speakers' Own Words

• Janine Gibson, on the episode’s structure ([03:23):
  "All of the characters are...in a kind of purgatory where none of them can go home."
• Emily Peck, on Jerry’s new job ([05:58):
  "I mean, this couldn’t be worse situation. I don’t understand why everyone still wants to be CEO of Waystar Royco."
• Felix Salmon, on the show’s authenticity ([10:25):
  "That’s like, yeah, that’s real."
• Roman Roy’s signature line ([23:11):
  "If it ain't Romy time, maybe it's crony time."
• Emily Peck, on the Roy sibling dynamic ([15:43):
  "At the end of Season 2, I was like, wow, Kendall's cool now. And then almost immediately into this episode, I was like, oh, dear God, he's going to fuck it up, just like his brother said."

---

Recap for New Listeners

This episode captures the chaos, crackling dialogue, and sharp satire that Succession is known for, making for a lively and insightful podcast discussion. The panel praises the series' realism, the cleverness of the "glass cliff" setup, and the layered, often hilarious writing. Listeners unfamiliar with Succession's return will come away understanding the show’s current stakes: panic among the Roys, Jerry’s ascendance, Kendall’s uncertain power, the ruthless corporate maneuvers at play, and a cast of characters both hyper-competent and farcically inept.

---

Final thought ([37:00, A/C]):
"I do think now, though, that whether he realizes it or not, Logan has basically got Roman on board by putting Jerry in charge...probably even more so than if he'd been made CEO himself."

Transcript

[A]

Guys, this is Succession. This is hbo. If you don't want to hear me talking about Logan Roy talking about, then don't listen to this. There are bad language words in this show. Hello. Welcome to the Weevils in the Flour Sack episode of Slate Money. Succession, Season three, episode one.

[B]

Oh, my God. Let's go.

[A]

Oh, my God. Hello, people. Hello. We are here. We are watching Succession. It has finally begun. I am Felix Salmon of Axios. I am here, of course, with Emily Peck of Fundrise.

[B]

Hello.

[C]

Hello, hello. Let's go.

[B]

Let's get into it. I'm so excited. Hurry up.

[A]

Who are we getting into it with this week? Emily.

[B]

Janine Gibson, the one and only, is here to discuss the first episode of season three season. Janine. I don't know your title at the ft, so you can say it.

[C]

I'm an assistant editor. I have other titles, but they're all very dull. Hello, everyone from London.

[A]

Janine, welcome. I'm so excited. We just were talking to Rebecca Mead last week, who's also in London. We were talking about how English this show is. So I feel like we're starting off with someone who is well attuned.

[C]

Well, Rebecca's moved just around the corner, so you're really diversifying. Well done.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Nailing ladies of a certain age from North London.

[A]

There you go. So you see, we have all sorts of English women on this show. It's great. Okay, Emily, where are we even gonna start?

[B]

Let's start at the beginning. Okay. Because season three picks up pretty much right after the end of season two. It picks right up. It has the gang, Logan and the gang flying to, I think, Croatia.

[A]

Well, that's where they were on their. On their boat. Right. So he's taking a helicopter to the airport in Croatia from the boat, which was off the coast of Croatia.

[C]

Correct.

[B]

They don't know where they're going. They don't know where they're going. That's like a big. A big part of the episode. It's unclear where Logan wants to go. He's afraid.

[C]

He's.

[B]

He's afraid to go back to New York. He doesn't want to get arrested.

[A]

Well, I mean, so this is. This is the first part of the. The. The first, like, great little plot twisting. No one knows where they're going, but the short list is like, it might be London, it might be Geneva. And then Jerry has this phone call with the White House, and that changes everything. And suddenly it's like, what about Panama? What about Sarajevo?

[B]

Yes. And we should say at the end of season two. Of course, Kendall dropped his bombshell in the press conference and accused his father of covering up illegal activity as head of Waystar Royco. So that is why they're all freaked out in an airport and no one knows where they're going. It's very uncomfortable. This whole episode is just. Is uncomfortable for Logan. He's a billionaire but he's like standing in a hotel lobby. At one point he's in this airport that Hugo admits it's a room. It's kind of nice. Not really. It's very uncomfortable for this. This old billionaire dude.

[C]

I really like that. It's also very uncomfortable for the viewer because we're. They're lost and we're lost and we can't locate anyone. And actually all of the characters are. Are in this weird limbo in a kind of purgatory where none of them can go home. They're all in a sort of holding area. None of them know where they're going. Whether it's somewhere with no extradition policy or they're not allowed back in the office or. But they're all stranded in various different ways. And it makes you feel really edgy because there's no sort of base camp for any of them.

[A]

Right. The way they managed to get Logan into some like the world's worst five star hotel in Sarajevo somewhere. And via some mildly implausible plot twist contrive to put Kendall into his ex wife's house rather than in his own.

[C]

Right. He has to go make noise to the sex. And you get that real sense of everything's been thrown in the air. That chaos that no one knows what to do because they don't even know where to go. And they're just all standing on a Runway going, could be any continent, could be any city, could be any. Just get in a van. Get in a van. This is. Yeah.

[A]

Oh my God. And that wonderful bit where Logan goes up to Connor. He's like, I want you to hold down the fort here in the airport in Croatia.

[C]

They can't even dress. They can't even get changed.

[B]

More Connor. No one. Logan gives no thought to Connor until Willa has to say like, oh, oh, but what about. About Connor? And then Logan kind of talks to him like he's six years old. Right. Oh, of course. It's a very important job for you. Like when you tell a toddler like I have a very important job for you today and it's completely insignificant.

[C]

It is to tie your shoes. Yeah. And they keep. Also they keep being thrown out of things. So people keep being thrown out of cars or moved out of rooms or out of their jobs. Like Jerry has three jobs in the first five seconds of the episode. So you've got this real dislocating thing where they're just. Nobody belongs anywhere anymore. Which I assume is a metaphor for the state of the corporate structure.

[A]

Thank you, Janine. One thing I will say is that we were introduced to the great MacGuffin at the season one, episode one, the very beginning of this show. The name is in the title, it's called Succession. And the whole idea was, Logan Roy is the CEO, but someone's gonna need to succeed him. Who will it be? And then we get all the way through to the end of season one, and it's still Logan and we still have no idea. We get to it to the end of season two, and it's still Logan and we have no idea. And then the very first episode of season three, like, suddenly they're like, okay, we're gonna stop even asking this question.

[B]

And it's Jerry, it's Jerry, and can we just talk? I mean, this is the ultimate glass cliff moment. I think for Jerry, the glass cliff is when, you know, a woman gets made CEO just at the point where everything turns to shit. So, I mean, this couldn't be worse situation. You don't. I don't understand why everyone still wants to be CEO of Waystar Royco. I mean, it's a total. What does Carl say?

[C]

I mean, this is a 12 foot.

[A]

Sub of poisonous tree frogs. This is the Full Baskin Robbins 31.

[C]

Flavors of Fuck right there.

[B]

Explain to me why Jerry wants to be CEO. Why Shiv wants to be CEO? Like, I really don't get it.

[A]

Why Roman, like, even phones up his dad and says, I want to be CEO, at which point this guy's like, yeah, no.

[C]

He even starts it with, I mean, obviously I want it, but, you know, you might not think I'm ready. So if you don't think I'm ready, then maybe I don't want it. It's just the most. I really don't want it. Actually, he's the only. Yeah, the most brilliant line at the beginning where when they're getting into the van and Logan shouts, you know, suck my dick at him or something equally paternal is what he said to his son as the sexual assault allegations poured in. And it's like, I am big pentameter. And it's so soon it's pre music and you're just like, oh, thank God the show is back. I Love the way the show is written.

[A]

I was a little bit worried. It's been a long time. I was like, can it come back? And the lines were zinging right at the beginning when you have Kendall in the. In the car and he's like, I can't have weevils in the flour sack. Those. A bit like the. Like the little bitey insects that were in the sand at Willow's Play.

[C]

There's one where Logan is talking about how he should react and obviously how he'll sacrifice himself as CEO so we can have a succession battle. And he sort of growls, if I start picking scabs and saying sorry, who knows where we'll end up? And you just. It's such a Rupert Murdoch line that you just can completely imagine that in the sort of phone hacking debacle or the Fox News debacle of just, I can't start saying sorry now. Anything could happen.

[B]

So why is he hiding then? Rupert Murdoch didn't go fuck off to Sarah.

[A]

No, Rupert Murdoch went straight out. He just stormed into Parliament.

[C]

He.

[A]

He genuinely wins School Beasts.

[C]

There was a long gap. It was a long, long.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

A long gap before he walked very humbly into Parliament and said, this is the most humble day of my life. And there was a. There was a long pause for lots of scabs to sort of soak off before he went and said, sorry.

[A]

So do we buy this, like, after two full seasons of getting to know Logan Roy, do we buy this, like, oh, my son has just given a dumb press conference, so I'm gonna step down? Like, is that all it took?

[B]

I did kind of buy it also, because I think in either. I think in season two, Jerry is also named as, like, the paper successor. Like, yeah, we'll just put Jerry's name down. No one takes it seriously, you know, So I feel like this was just an extension of that kind of plan of, like, puppet of puppet Jerry and I do feel like he kind of is. He means it this time. Like, maybe he thinks this will appease the critics or something.

[C]

I'm sure it does because he. He immediately. He immediately rose back from it and qualifies it. So he says, you know, first he does that brilliant thing of. But a woman would be good. So Jerry or Shiv, but I want a kid. So Shiv or Raymond, but I want experience. So Roman or Jerry. And you're like, oh, this is fun. But then as soon as he sort of says Jerry, he goes. I mean, obviously, I'd want to be consulted on any Major decisions. And obviously I would be doing this, and obviously I'd be doing that. And you think, okay, so it's a Potemkin CEO, so that made it feel credible.

[A]

Yeah. It's a bit like Bob Chapek at Disney, right?

[C]

Yes, yes. And it's exactly like the bit that he says on the plane where he. Where he's going, it's war. And tie up the white shoe firms and get sign up 5 and then have chats with the others so they're compromised. And it's just all fake, isn't it? It's all performance and how you respond in a crisis.

[B]

I loved it. It was like the. Actually, what happens when these MeToo, when these allegations kind of hit and everyone's like, this is comeuppance for the. And the corporation's like, oh, we're hire a law firm and they'll investigate and ever. And then maybe someone steps down and then that's it. Nothing happens behind the scenes. No one's actually talking about what happened.

[A]

This was. This was my favorite bit of, like, peek behind the curtain to see what corporate strategy really looks like. And this is one of the areas where the fact that they really do their reporting in the writer's room and talk to people who know their shit is when Logan's basically, okay, what we need to do is we need to retain the top three law firms, get them all doing something for us, and then for the next five after that, we need to find something that they've done for us in the past. So they're conflicted out. And he's basically got this strategy of tying up every single conceivable lawyer who might be any good at this to get them either conflicted out or working for him directly so that no one else can hire any of those to attack him. And I was like, that's like, yeah, that's real.

[C]

Super real. And he then says to. He says to his super lawyer, Lt. I mean, I assume this is also obvious that it's already in hand. And he goes, yes, it's already in hand, because that's your first move. Tie up all the bankers and the law firms. Amazing. Completely, right?

[B]

But they don't tie up the key. The pivotal lawyer. I mean, that's a big part of this episode. Was this the hunt for Lisa Arthur, the lawyer who is going to make it all better for everybody? Kendall gets to Lisa Arthur first, and he's one step ahead of Logan.

[C]

It's nice that you're persisting in calling her Lisa Arthur and not Gloria Allred. It's sweet that you're.

[B]

That's who she's supposed to be. Right? I asked Felix in a text, and he said we could only discuss it on the show. So you think Gloria Allred.

[C]

Well, her first name ends in A, and the second name begins with it.

[A]

I replied to the sex saying, it's Gloria Allred, but we should discuss it on the show. But did you not think it was Gloria Allred?

[B]

I thought Gloria Allred's daughter, maybe Lisa Bloom, because she's known for representing all these women and these sexual harassment and also Harvey Weinstein. So, like, I could see, like, that was Harvey Weinstein's move, you know, hiring Lisa Bloom. And maybe it was gonna be Logan's move, but he got blocked. So one of them.

[C]

That is a fair point. And one of the clever things about succession is they're always careful to sort of slightly merge a character. So there's just not so much absolute real life reflection that you can go, well, that's definitely so and so.

[A]

But what was fascinating when you had that conversation between. It's whatever, Lisa Bloom. I know. I've now forgotten what everyone's name is Lisa Arthur. And Shiv was. The Shiv walks in and she's like. And Lisa Arthur's. I hope I haven't wasted your time, because basically, I'm not going to represent Waystar Royko here. And Shiv, without missing a beat, basically goes straight into the whole, like, let me conflict you out pitch and saying, like, no, no, no, I don't want you to represent Waystar Roko. I just want you to represent me. Like, any way to make you conflicted so that you can't represent Kendall.

[B]

Oh, I didn't pick up. That was her strategy.

[C]

Yeah. Straight into via sorority sister into. I'm still going to conflict you out. I thought that was where it was going. It's amazing. Really smart and without. She doesn't miss a beat, does she?

[A]

And that's where, like, there's been a couple of instances in the show. This was one of them. The other one was that scene in the playground with the accuser where Shiv actually does show herself to be incredibly sort of competent and quite good at what she does. And the irony, of course, is that after doing this thing very well, she manages to get in to see Lisa Arthur before Lisa Arthur was actually officially signed on with Kendall. She does this very, you know, smooth attempt to try and get conflict her out and all the rest of it, but because she doesn't seal it, she doesn't get the job. The clear implication of the show, and I think I believe this, in this world, if she'd managed to get Lisa Arthur, she would have been named CEO.

[C]

Right. But this episode is obviously not done giving at that point, because there are so many swings and so many layers to the swings because. Because we're in limbo and anything can happen. It could all be about the appointment of the lawyer. And Kendall's got this huge win because he's got the lawyer and he's got the great lawyer. But then next thing, he's in a room with some strategic tweet writers. I wasn't even quite. What are they called?

[B]

Tweets.

[A]

That's his. That's his PR people.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And saying who actually had no interest.

[C]

Some cool tweets. And he's crazy cool tweets. He's off. He's off the charts crazy. You think? Oh, yeah. No, he's definitely not going to win, and he's only nailed his great lawyer, so it all swings back the other way again.

[A]

Yeah. No, Kendall, that's. That's the whole thing, right? So that he is. He has no plan, right? He. He did this great, like, mic drop moment at the end of season two where he's like, boom. And then everyone's like, wow, you have a plan. And then it turns out he has no plan at all. Like, he's driving around in a car, literally, expecting to just be able to go up to his office, and he needs to be told by an underling. Yeah, I don't think they're going to let you into the building. He's like, oh, shit, now what? And then he's like, I guess I need a. And then before he can even allow the PR person to tell him what to do, he's like, I want to get the writers of BoJack Horseman to Write tweets for me.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's like at the end of season two, I was like, wow, Kendall's cool now. And then almost immediately into this episode, I was like, oh, dear God, he's going to fuck it up, just like his brother said.

[C]

And by then, this has gotten a little stale. Kendall will self destruct because it's his favorite.

[B]

And then he's talking to those two PR women. He can't even let them tell him their strategy before he cuts them off and is just. He just sounds like an idiot.

[C]

Right? His first thing, he gets in the car. His first thing is get witless cousin Greg to monitor the Internet, which obviously goes exactly as you'd imagine. Brilliant. Something about the Pope and you're trending amazing.

[B]

Not the Pope, a Pope.

[A]

I wrote down a lot of tweets. That's such a great line from.

[C]

I can't read all of them. And then the next thing is, he obviously phones his girlfriend so that she can tell him that he's an amazing man. What a man. What a man. What a man. And then he's trying to get his ex wife to tell him what a man he is, and she doesn't give it up to him. So he just has to keep going. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, like, you can kind of tell when he's all like. You can just tell by the way he's walking. Right. Like within the first two minutes of the show, the way he walks down the corridor, you're like, this is not how any human being walks. This is not someone who is actually in control of what they're doing or has a clue what they're doing. And then by the end of the episode, he's going up to his ex wife and saying, quote, because I don't like to drop a deuce with a staff coat. You're like, yeah, well, I think I.

[B]

Was talking to our producer Shayna, before we started recording, and she was like, is he on drugs or is he just in a manic phase? I don't think he was taking drugs or anything for this episode, but he's clearly like, he is just super pumped, super excited in search of extreme validation from whatever, wherever he can get it. Like his ex wife, his girlfriend. Greg at one point gives him a pat on the shoulder and says, like, you're doing great or something. I mean, he's just like the eternal child looking for his dad to say good job. But now, I mean, obviously his dad's not gonna say good job, although he'll grind his bones into bread instead or whatever. Grind his bones to make his bread. Right. So he's just seeking that validation from wherever. He should look at Twitter himself, probably.

[A]

Yeah, he wasn't on drugs. But like, the very first audio we get in the episode is basically him breathing like Darth Vader inside this bathroom, sort of hyperventilating, almost like the guy is off kilter in a way like that. Honestly felt almost even more off kilter than the beginning of season two where we found him in that Icelandic, you know, spa.

[B]

Oh, yeah, he's always in a spa or a bathtub or something.

[C]

Needs to go back to water. There's something very deep there. We need a Freudian.

[B]

I just wanted to mention that in the car when they can't go back to Waystar Royco, Greg says something along the lines of, this is like OJ except if OJ Never killed anyone. And then Kendall gives this incredible smile, which I don't think I've ever seen him smile that big before, and says.

[A]

Who said I never killed anyone?

[C]

Juice is loose, baby.

[B]

I had chills, okay? Cause we know he accidentally did kill someone way back in season one. And I am in the back of my head wondering, like, is Logan gonna use that against him in this fight?

[A]

Of course he is.

[C]

I've gotten that. Oh, God, how do I get.

[A]

And then. Yeah, no, he comes out with this. With this manic grin. You're absolutely right. He goes, the juice is loose. And at one point, the relationship between Kendall and Greg is something that I need more understanding of because the entire mic drop moment at the end of season two would have been impossible without the papers that Greg clearly gave to Kendall. At some point, and we never see this conversation. At some point, Greg and Kendall have a conversation where Greg tells Kendall that he has these papers, and he hands over the papers, and because we never saw the conversation, we don't understand how that relationship has built up.

[B]

We did see the conversation, because I actually rewatched season one, and at the wedding, when they're in England for the wedding, Greg does make a comment to Kendall about he has some papers, some evidence or something. It's hinted at that he would help.

[A]

Him deep cut back to season one.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So that's why you need Emily always. Because she's actually concentrating.

[B]

I'm just stuck here in Westchester watching.

[A]

The rest of us are busy going like, oh, my God, Kendall just killed someone. And Emily's like, wait, no, Greg said something to Kendall that's significant.

[C]

We're gonna need that later. I'm obsessing over the weird echoing of the dominant subservient relationships between Tom and Greg and Geri and Roman, and Emily's, like, plot point.

[A]

What about. What about Greg and Kendall? This is the thing. But, yeah, so that's. So Greg is there in the back of the car. He's, like, quietly necessary, even though utterly useless, and. Oh, poor Greg.

[C]

Do you. I'm starting to lose sympathy. I just want to slap him now. I think, oh, come on, Greg. Get it together.

[B]

I mean, it's really conniving and really idiotic at the same time, which I guess you could say for all of these characters, right? But, like, he doesn't understand how to just, like, see what's Going on what people are saying about Kendall on the Internet. He says things like, the Internet is big. But meanwhile, he's, like, orchestrated this whole maneuver with these papers, you know, from season one on the cruise, papers have been like this, you know, McGuffiny thing.

[A]

If you ask Greg to, like, conflict out Lisa, Arthur, like, he wouldn't even know what you were talking about.

[C]

There's every chance that he would just by talking before she could shut him up. There's every chance that he would. He would manage it just through gross ineptitude.

[A]

So what do we think of Gerry as CEO? Like, she's not going to be the fuck up that any of the other options would have been. Right.

[C]

I think it's really obvious that at the beginning of the episode, she's his ace. If the lawyer, Lisa, Gloria, whoever is, is Kendall's ace, then. Then Jerry is Logan's eye. She's the first one to sort of center herself in the purgatory limbo. She offers the plan of I could check in with the doj. She's the first one say anything that isn't. That is positive rather than reactive. And. And she executes it. And they're all just forced to go, yeah, well done, Jo. Okay, that's great. Yeah, well done, Jo. We've got something. We know something. So she. She absolutely gathers herself and takes control of it. And so how could she not be the CEO? She's the only one he's got that isn't just sitting there going, well, we're 33 favours are fucked. Or going, I don't know, is he toast? I mean, might be toast.

[A]

In the immortal world's words of Roman Roy, if it ain't Romy time, maybe it's crony time.

[C]

He's my favorite. I can't help it.

[B]

It's true, though, Jerry. I mean, she says it herself. When Roman tries to sleep with her in the hotel, she says, I've. I've gotten as far as I have by avoiding mess. You know, and she does avoid mess somehow, even in this company where everyone else is in mess. Like, Carl is told he's not trusted. No, Frank. Frank is told he's not trusted. Carl is. I've never seen him display any competence in this show except having, like, panic attacks when he was kidnapped.

[A]

But also, can we just mention the line where. Where Logan turns to Karl and goes, karl, if your hands are clean, it's only because your whorehouse does manic.

[B]

Exactly. Jerry is really the only competent one who's displayed, you know, a cool Head and even through all of it.

[A]

And she also gets one of the best lines where. Where, like, Shiv is conniving with Tom on the plane and comes back and Roman's like, yeah, we know that. You know, I showed Siobhan the text messages, and Siobhan was like, what the fuck are you doing, Jerry? And Jerry turns around and goes, I'm.

[C]

Just a very straightforward person, Chef.

[A]

I am.

[B]

So what'd you hear? Well, she kind of is.

[A]

She's just my. My favorite Gerry line. She's just a very straightforward person.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it does make sense that he would choose her. Actually, it shows some kind of thinking on his part. As soon as Roman calls and kind of, like, has that weaselly conversation with him, it's clear he's not CEO material. Right. I mean, you don't call someone and say, I want to do it because it's my time. Because it's my time. Like, that's not a convincing sales pitch.

[C]

Unless you think it's not my time. Unless you think it's not my time, in which case, it's probably not my time. I might have got the time wrong. I might be in the wrong time zone. Maybe Sarajevo. Probably in Sarajevo.

[A]

So where does this leave Shiv? She has been shafted by her dad. She does that thing where she's, like, turns the car around. Is she at risk of, you know, is she going to join Team Kendall at this point?

[B]

Well, I mean, that's the implication, right? She shows up there at the end of the episode, presumably. Maybe she's going to play like, some double agent action. Because at the beginning, she says, is. Is dad toast? That's what I'm thinking. Is he toast? She seems to kind of see clearly that this is a serious situation, though. I feel like we should also discuss whether or not this actually is a serious situation. Is Logan going to jail, y'?

[A]

All?

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Well, I mean, like. So my mental picture of the sort of story arc is that season two was all about the proxy war. Season one ended with, like, there's going to be this big proxy war where we try and work out whether Logan can keep control of the company or whether the rival shareholders are going to seize control of the company. And by the end of season two, after all of this proxy war fighting and all matter of back and forth with Pierces and all the rest of it, we still don't know what the outcome of the proxy war is. And. And now, like, that is still happening. Like, that backdrop, that fight of who's going to control the company hasn't gone away.

[C]

No, but we do, we do have some hints as to what's going to happen because we always do because succession is so rooted in actual fact and as you pointed out earlier, so incredibly well reported. So one thing we absolutely know for a fact is that Logan Roy is not going to jail. No, nobody goes, doesn't go to jail. Somebody else will go to jail. But that, that will be somebody who is not a blood relative and is very, you know, well placed to just do a little stint and then somebody else might, it might get a bit perilous, but he will decide who gets saved and who doesn't get saved.

[A]

But I mean, but the fact is we do know that Tom and Greg who were on the front lines of the COVID up, that Logan has no compunction about either of those two girls.

[C]

I would have very good odds on Tom going to jail. Notably, there's not a lot of Tom in this episode. I feel like Tom's path to jail is almost predestined. I would, I really. Yeah, absolutely. But I would think Shiv, to Emily's point earlier, Shiv always knows her own power. So she got a knock, but she always knows her own power. And in a dispute where, you know, the opening line almost of the episode is, you know, is what he said to his son as the sexual assault allegations poured in. Shiv is in a very good position as the, as the, the daughter, you know, she, she, she knows her power.

[A]

Yeah. A prosecutor is not going to send a woman to jail for sexual assault crimes like that is a bad look. Tom is a, is an easy thing, especially given that Greg is 100% happy to cooperate with prosecutors and tell them exactly what Tom told him to do. Right. He'll, like with Tom's, with Greg's cooperation, it's hard to see how Tom stays out of jail.

[C]

Right, right.

[B]

And I mean, as viewers of the show know that Tom did wrong. He found out about all this wrongdoing on cruises, murder, et cetera, and his next move was to cover it up by shredding documents. So like Shiv hasn't, as far as I know, hasn't done anything jail worthy or crime worthy.

[A]

Shiv, if I, I mean you've, you've done more recent rewatching of succession than I have, but tell me if I'm wrong here, but Shiv actually, at some point, very aggressively when Tom tries to tell her what he's doing and what he's found out, she aggressively tells him, do not tell Me, I do not want to know.

[C]

All we've got for Shiv is a bit of, you know, light immorality and general bloodthirstiness. I don't there's anything that's going to send her down. Maybe, maybe a bit of possession. I don't personally.

[B]

Yeah, that's a big thing in this episode too. Like, is Jerry clean? Are you clean? Like, Jerry asks Roman, like, are you clean? And he's like, oh.

[C]

Which is hilarious, given their relationship.

[B]

Yes. And Logan asks if Jerry is clean and Tom admits he is not clean. You know, he's all tied up in cruises. He knows what's what. When Logan asks him to be CEO briefly, or if he wants it, he's just like, no, no, no, no. What? No, no, absolutely not. I feel like he kind of knows where this is headed. I don't know where it's headed, but.

[A]

I mean, it's headed to shit town, right? I mean, like, it's all gonna go horribly pear shaped because that's where, you know, in the ways of succession, there was that wonderful callback, you know, not just the one where, where, where Kendall says, who said I never killed anyone? But then later on when Shiv is trying to make a last ditch attempt to try and persuade Lisa Arthur not to represent Kendall, she says, careful who you hit your wagon to, honey, because a lot of wagons are going in the ditch. And that whole reference to wagons going in the ditch and Kendall was, you know, it worked for us omniscient viewers, I suppose.

[C]

Yeah. I just was thinking, I love how all the conversations in this episode end with everybody screaming abuse each other. No matter where they start. Almost every conversation ends and with somebody calling somebody else something vile.

[B]

That is true. I also, I wanted to note that this episode seemed to be Hugo's kind of like, moment. Carolina, the other the comms person, is kicked out of the car, right?

[A]

Kendall kicks out on live tv. Like Kendall literally kicks her out into the waiting scrum of TV cameras, which, like, as a PR move, really unwise. Yeah, really unwise. No, don't do that.

[C]

Don't do that. Just a tip.

[B]

So I don't know what's gonna happen to Karolina now. Cause I feel like she is a little compromised. And Hugo, who's kind of like this, just an absolute kind of snake of a PR guy, seems to be all up in Logan's business. So I wonder where that's going, if Carolina's done for this season or not. So that's one thing to think about and wonder.

[A]

But no I definitely noticed that scene where it's Hugo and Logan in the van and Roman is wanting to get in the van, and Hugo just closes the door on him and it's like, no, fuck off. Like, I'm on the inside, you're on the outside.

[B]

Yes, yes. And it's kind of shit work, too, right? Like booking the bad hotel in Sarajevo and checking.

[C]

I was gonna say it's somewhere between PR and terrible concierge, isn't it? It's a very. What is your experience for this role? Yeah.

[A]

So I. I have to say I don't understand the Sarajevo thing like that. That makes no sense to me. The extradition things I don't understand. Like, if you're in Croatia already, like, why not just fucking stay on the yacht? Like, why is he going to Sarajevo?

[C]

I mean, I don't know. The legal. Perhaps Sarajevo has a long history of not extraditing to America. That is much more heavily enforced. But it. I think it's that sense of, we've got all this impetus and all this, let's go. They keep shouting each other, let's go. It's war. Let's go. And they're completely. They don't know what to. All right, Sarava, then we'll go. Sari over. It's just a sort of perpetual motion thing. Or then in a holding room. Kendall's the same. Just keep moving. He's just keeping moving.

[B]

But nothing has actually happened. He's just said he has documents, like, nothing. Literally nothing is happening. No charges, no subpoenas, no nothing. It's just, we have to do something. But there's.

[C]

The reaction of this family is to immediately break apart into tiny huddles, try and form an alliance and hire a shitload of lawyers. It's just. It's sort of put them under a lot of stress and look at them and go. That's how interesting.

[A]

Yeah, I do. I do think that in the real world, like, Logan would probably have just stayed on the yacht, but, you know, HBO wouldn't, like, spring for that one.

[B]

Yeah, you had to.

[C]

Oh, yeah. We didn't get any yacht shots, did we? Yeah, because you'd have to go back to the yacht. Yeah.

[B]

But if you read Rebecca Mead's piece, there was a lot of drama with the planes and how many helicopters you could have in the shot to remember that everyone is, in fact, wealthy. We have the planes.

[C]

I couldn't bear to read the piece in case there was a spoiler. That's.

[A]

There was no spoilers. You can read the piece.

[C]

I Got about two cars in, I thought, oh, no, I don't even want to know they're in Tuscany.

[A]

HBO would never, never have allowed any spoilers. So go read Rebecca's piece, especially now that she's your neighbor. Okay, so, Emily, favorite line from the episode.

[B]

We've said a lot of them already, but I actually have a fondness for Logan. Just undercutting Frank throughout this episode, telling him he's not trusted. And at one point, Frank says he would make a really good interim CEO. And Logan just kind of turns to him, and he reminded me of, like, an elderly relative of mine. He was just like, you're not trusted. You mashed potatoes. And I just really love that. You mashed potato. I don't know what it means, really. What does it mean to be mashed potatoes? But. But, yeah, that was a favorite.

[A]

Well, Connor, of course, is the first.

[B]

Pancake that I understand. If you've made enough pancakes, you understand the first one's kind of meh.

[C]

The first one's always terrible. It's your practice pancake that is the one.

[B]

Exactly. Takes too long, and it's still not ready when you finish it.

[C]

And it's a bit somehow both soggy and crispy.

[B]

Yes, terrible. But I don't know what mashed potatoes are. I guess they're just trash, not CEO material.

[A]

Connor has a good line when he goes to. When he talks to Willa about, like, making her play a hate watch, and he goes, we should jump on the ironic cycle. That's a good line. I mean, it's not in character. Like, Connor's not smart enough to come up with that, but, like, it's a good line. Janine, what's your favorite line?

[C]

Mine is definitely cool tweets. Just cool tweets. Cool tweets. I'm going to use that all the time, especially when introducing our social media policy. This is what I want you to bear in mind when planning your cool tweets.

[A]

The Axio social media policy is never tweet. The FT social media policy is cool tweets only.

[C]

Cool tweets only. Just gonna workshop some cool tweets now.

[A]

I think mine is probably, like, when Roman actually comes out and says it, and he goes to Jerry, he goes, I'd lay you badly, but I'd lay you gladly.

[C]

Really? You want for the 70s bumper sticker. Okay.

[B]

I think it was about to happen, but then the phone rings and cuts them off. But I think that.

[C]

I think it's really interesting. I think it wasn't out of the question either. I definitely think it was about to happen.

[B]

She looked interested.

[C]

She definitely did. Their relationship is so fascinating.

[B]

I think it's actually one of the more strategic alliances that have paid off in the show because Roman really does close the deal for Jerry as interim CEO in that. In that phone call. Whether or not that's a good thing.

[C]

Tbd.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's another great line, by the way. Maybe a couple of years under the wing of an old hen could see me crack out of the old egg.

[C]

That is wonderful.

[A]

I do think now, though that whether he realizes it or not, Logan has basically got Roman on board by putting Jerry in charge. Right. He's definitely lost Kendall. No one cares about Conor. Shiv is up in the air at this point, but Roman is team Logan. Thank you, Logan. Probably even more so than he would have been if he'd been made CEO himself.

[C]

Oh, definitely. Definitely.

[B]

And definitely more his chances of success are higher under Jerry's wing than if he were actually made interims. Oh, yeah.

[C]

No, you know for a fact, obviously he would unravel faster even than Kendall. He'd be, you know, pulling his pants down in front of a floor to ceiling window and just. I don't. It's impossible to imagine the ridiculous extremes he would go to if actually put in charge. But he has this weirdy loyalty with Jerry and now. And now he will be on side. Maybe Logan realizes it.

[A]

All right, we're not going to ask you what happens in episode two, Janine, because you might have some inside information on that one. But I'm going to ask am what's up next? What are we looking forward to?

[B]

Well, I mean, I did see some preview material that HBO put out and I saw FBI jackets in the preview material. So maybe some kind of raid is upcoming. I would like to see a raid on Waystar Royco. That is my wish and prediction.

[A]

Well, let's hope for some hardcore law enforcement action coming up in episode two. Janine Gibson at the fd. Oh my God, it's been such a pleasure having you on. I can't wait to tweet about the rest of the season with you as it goes on.

[C]

Thank you so much for having me and mainly thank you for giving me episode one of succession ahead of everybody else getting episode one of succession. I am so grateful. I will do anything forever.

[A]

How jealous is the rest of north of London of Geneva?

[C]

I may have mentioned a few times that I have episode one succession and people may have gone, can I come and watch it at your house? And I may have gone? No, because it is a sacred breach of trust between me and hbo.

[B]

Well, Janine, I look forward to your cool tweets on this episode when it's final.

[C]

Thanks, Everly.

[A]

Thanks, Janine.

[C]

Thank you. For whatever reason, it ain't Romy time. Then maybe it's crony time.