Slate Money: "Taylor Swift is a Volatile Asset"

Date: November 23, 2019
Host: Felix Salmon (Axios)
Guests: Janine Gibson (Financial Times), Emily Peck (HuffPost), Anna Szymanski (Breaking Views)

Episode Overview

This episode covers a dynamic mix of international finance, pop culture economics, and business news. The main topics are:

• The economic and political crisis in Hong Kong
• The business saga behind Taylor Swift's music catalog
• The economics of Instagram influencer-brand deals, particularly Kylie Jenner
• The skyrocketing popularity — and controversy — around the TikTok app

The hosts dissect not only the week's headline-making stories, but also their deeper implications for global business, media, and the power wielded by modern celebrities.

1. Hong Kong: Financial Hub in Crisis

[02:00 – 12:35]

Key Discussion Points

• Escalating Protests:
  • Recent intensification at Hong Kong Polytechnic University.
  • Protests shifting from episodic to widespread, impacting daily life and the city's economy.
  • “The local economy is kind of in a sham. They keep having to close schools, people aren’t shopping.” — Emily Peck [04:13]
• US Government's Response:
  • Unusual bipartisan support, with recent legislation threatening Hong Kong's special trading status.
  • “In the House, this legislation passed by a vote of 417 to 1…unanimously approved in the Senate.” — Emily Peck [03:19]
  • This has direct trade war implications, possibly prolonging US-China tensions.
• Corporate Sentiment:
  • Corporations (especially with UK ties) see Hong Kong as a fading financial center.
  • “Every conversation I have with businesses in the UK about Hong Kong ends with someone saying, I mean, it’s over…” — Janine Gibson [05:14]
  • Alternatives cited: Tokyo, Singapore.
• Broader Themes:
  • Discussion shifts to the global retreat from internationalism and the parallel “over” narrative for London due to Brexit.
  • “There’s this significant pushback on globalization, which I think will give more strength to authoritarians.” — Anna Szymanski [11:03]
• Root Issues Remain:
  • Worsening income inequality and housing issues.
  • “There aren’t any good answers of what’s going to happen to the people in Hong Kong…” — Anna Szymanski [08:40]
• Simple Slogans vs Complex Realities:
  • Simplicity of political slogans (“Take Back Control”) proving effective against the backdrop of complex economic and geopolitical shifts.

2. Taylor Swift vs. Private Equity: The Battle for Her Masters

[12:35 – 21:18]

Key Discussion Points

• The Master Recordings Dispute:
  • Taylor Swift does not own her first six albums’ master recordings; they’re owned by Big Machine, now controlled by Scooter Braun (her “arch enemy”) and backed by Carlyle Group.
  • “She did not own Big Machine. Her dad owned a small chunk... the guy who did own it sold it to Scooter Braun…” — Felix Salmon [13:00]
• Behind-the-Scenes Drama:
  • Janine claims to have heard from financiers that Swift was initially approached to buy her catalog and turned it down.
  • “I'm not going on the record. It was backstage at a gig...” — Janine Gibson [13:47]
• Artists’ Rights:
  • General consensus that artists should own their own work, but also recognition of complex contracts and industry economics.
  • “Almost all artists do not own their masters.” — Anna Szymanski [15:05]
  • “Taylor stands up and says, ‘this is really bad and artists should own the intellectual copyright to their work.’… It's not really for her. She's doing it for other people.” — Janine Gibson [17:10]
• Private Equity as the Villain:
  • The optics of Carlyle (PE giant) being on the wrong side of a beloved pop star.
  • Elizabeth Warren and AOC side with Swift, turning it into a populist cause.
• Swift’s Leverage:
  • Threats to re-record her catalog as a form of counter-attack — but is it real?
  • “I think it’s a threat. I don’t think she’s going to spend her time re-recording…” — Emily Peck [18:53]
• Memorable Quotes:
  • “Taylor Swift is an incredibly volatile asset.” — Anna Szymanski [19:54]
  • “If you are buying a stake in something and its primary way of generating cash is this incredibly volatile asset…” — Anna Szymanski [19:16]

3. Kylie Jenner & the Economics of Influencer Brands

[21:12 – 25:18]

Key Discussion Points

• Big Deals, Big Risks:
  • Coty bought 51% of Kylie Cosmetics for $600M, valuing it at $1.2B.
  • “If there’s any asset more volatile than 29-year-old Taylor Swift, it’s surely 21-year-old Kylie Jenner.” — Felix Salmon [20:29]
  • Consensus that Kylie is cashing out at the peak, while Coty overpays for a highly uncertain long-term asset.
• Influencer Brand Power:
  • Kylie’s business built on Instagram, direct-to-fan appeal, bypassing legacy beauty brands.
  • “Instagram was completely the way to do it. And it went through the hearts and minds of teens and the pocketbooks of their parents.” — Janine Gibson [23:05]
• Brand Ownership Realities:
  • Discussion of famous founders losing control (Helmut Lang, Jill Sander, Jo Malone), contrasted with Kylie’s approach (only selling part, retaining control).
  • “It will be interesting... because unlike some of these other names, this brand… was designed with these literal images of herself she’s putting out constantly.” — Anna Szymanski [24:33]
• Celebrity Leverage in 2019:
  • Both Swift and Jenner represent new forms of economic and cultural power — using their massive followings to directly influence business negotiations and brand value.
  • “She was able to go out on social media, talk directly to her fans and use that as leverage in a licensing dispute.” — Emily Peck [24:55]

4. TikTok: The Only Good Social Network?

[25:18 – 31:36]

Key Discussion Points

• Addictiveness & Global Reach:
  • TikTok described as “crack cocaine” of apps; over 700M users globally, 80M in U.S.
  • “I have fallen down TikTok holes and suddenly realized I've managed to spend like two hours looking at TikToks…” — Felix Salmon [26:04]
• Chinese Ownership & Regulation:
  • Growing controversy over Chinese corporate parent ByteDance, with the company pushing back against U.S. security concerns.
  • “There were 75 moderators in the UK and another however many hundred in America and Germany and France… Everyone should stop worrying about the content...” — Janine Gibson [26:18]
• Censorship & Data Privacy Concerns:
  • Opaque content-moderation policies, especially around political issues like Hong Kong protests.
  • “Mark Zuckerberg was saying that TikTok was censoring the Hong Kong protests. I don't know if that's true or not.” — Anna Szymanski [27:30]
• Ownership and Potential U.S. Crackdown:
  • TikTok may fall afoul of CFIUS (Committee on Foreign Investment in US), which previously forced a Chinese company to sell Grindr.
  • “It is entirely possible — I would go so far as to say probable — that CFIUS will go along to ByteDance and say, you have to sell TikTok.” — Felix Salmon [31:00]
  • ByteDance could profit hugely: “They just get to, you know, be the victims here and walk away with $70 billion.” — Felix Salmon [31:10]
• The Teen Factor:
  • TikTok shades age restrictions (“My son is 11… everyone has TikTok in his class… The age thing is a lie.” — Emily Peck [27:16])
• Broader Context:
  • The episode circles back to recurring questions of tech power, national security, and how governments and corporations respond to social media’s rapid evolution.

5. Numbers Round

[31:40 – End]

• $700 — The weekly amount Park Slope Food Co-op spends on plastic bags (Janine Gibson) [31:51]
• 3 vs 6 months — The difference in paid family leave policies among US Democratic candidates: Amy Klobuchar (3) and Kamala Harris (6) (Emily Peck) [33:30]
• $26 billion — Amount Charles Schwab is reportedly willing to pay for TD Ameritrade (Felix Salmon) [34:18]
• $0.77 — Price on the Ecuadorian 2028 government bond, a record low (Anna Szymanski) [35:03]

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

“This significant pushback on globalization… will give more strength to authoritarians.”
— Anna Szymanski [11:03]

“Simplicity of political slogans—‘Take Back Control’—proving effective against the backdrop of complex global realities.”
— Janine Gibson [11:14]

“Taylor Swift is an incredibly volatile asset.”
— Anna Szymanski [19:54]

“If there’s any asset more volatile than 29-year-old Taylor Swift, it’s surely 21-year-old Kylie Jenner.”
— Felix Salmon [20:29]

“Instagram was completely the way to do it. And it went through the hearts and minds of teens and the pocketbooks of their parents.”
— Janine Gibson [23:05]

“I have fallen down TikTok holes and suddenly realized I’ve managed to spend like two hours looking at TikToks…”
— Felix Salmon [26:04]

Episode Tone

The show is chatty, irreverent, and incisive — combining expert financial and journalistic analysis with wit. At times, playful (debating “hummus wars” at Park Slope Food Co-op); sometimes urgent (discussing the future of Hong Kong and the rise of authoritarian regimes).

Recommended Segment Timestamps

• Hong Kong protests: [02:00 – 12:35]
• Taylor Swift and her music catalog: [12:35 – 21:18]
• Kylie Jenner, influencer economics: [21:12 – 25:18]
• TikTok, China & tech fear: [25:18 – 31:36]
• Numbers round (Park Slope, paid leave, Schwab/TD Ameritrade, Ecuador bonds): [31:40 – End]

This episode is particularly rewarding for listeners interested in the intersection of pop culture, technology, and global business. It explores how the volatility of celebrity can disrupt not just music or beauty but even serious investment and geopolitics — all tinged with the hosts’ trademark humor.