Slate Money — "The Correct Opinion on 50-Year Mortgages"

Date: November 15, 2025

Host: Felix Salmon (Bloomberg)
Panelists: Elizabeth Spiers (NYT), Emily Peck (Axios)

Episode Overview

This week’s episode dives into the heated topic of 50-year mortgages in America, unpacks why this seemingly technical financial product has provoked such a visceral reaction (especially among conservatives), and examines the implications for housing affordability and American attitudes toward debt. The hosts also discuss a new FTC antitrust investigation into proxy advisory firms ISS and Glass Lewis, and close with a curious story about Robinhood and Gopuff teaming up to deliver actual bags of cash to customers. The show finishes with a numbers round and some lighthearted talk about pockets in women’s clothing.

Main Segment: The Debate Over 50-Year Mortgages

Key Discussion Points and Insights

[02:03]

• Felix Salmon introduces the topic, noting "everyone has an opinion on 50-year mortgages" and teases his "correct opinion."
• The panel considers why the idea of a 50-year mortgage is so enraging to many Americans.
  • Elizabeth Spiers [03:31]:

    "The idea that you might die before you actually own [a house] outright is horrifying... just the idea of being in debt forever really horrifies people, even if it's a reasonable proposition overall."

[04:16]

• Felix explains the practical reality:
  • Few people actually keep a mortgage for 30 years; median homeownership lasts 7 years.
  • The notion of "paying down" a 30-year mortgage until it's gone "is something that has always been just a tiny... maybe 1 or 2% of homeowners have ever done that."
• Emily Peck [05:22]:
  • Points out senior citizens' mortgage debt is rising.
  • Cites Urban Institute data: in 1995, 5% of homeowners over 75 had mortgage debt; by 2025, it's 30%, with many owing six figures.

[06:30]

• Discussion of debt stigma:
  • In the U.S., "debt is really stigmatized and the only kind of debt that isn't stigmatized is mortgage debt," says Elizabeth.
  • Felix and Emily push back on whether student loan debt is really seen as irresponsible.

[07:11]

• Emily recounts the bizarre political origins of the current 50-year mortgage kerfuffle:
  • Fannie/Freddie Mac regulator Bill Pulte brought a poster to Mar-a-Lago comparing FDR with the 30-year mortgage to Trump with the 50-year mortgage.
  • Trump promoted the 50-year mortgage idea on social media, but "no one liked this idea really."
  • Virtually all political and economic factions are against it: "MAGA hated it... Economists hated it... Policy types hated it" ([07:39]).
  • The lack of legal groundwork (i.e., not conforming loans) means such mortgages would require an act of Congress — "really zero appetite within Congress for doing this."

[09:09]

• Felix explains technicalities:
  • Fannie/Freddie can only buy "conforming" mortgages; 50-year terms are not conforming, so this literally can't happen via executive action.
  • Core economic logic: Longer mortgages reduce monthly payments, which doesn't make homes more affordable but rather "just means that house prices go up and the mortgage payments stay the same." ([10:28])

[11:38]

• The deeper issue:
  • 50-year mortgages "literally solve zero problems" ([11:57], Emily).
  • The real issue is "not enough affordable homes"; increasing demand without increasing supply just raises prices.

[12:26]

• Context from history:
  • FDR didn't just invent the 30-year mortgage, he made a "big push to build and build and build tons and tons of houses."
  • If a 50-year mortgage were paired with massive new home construction, "that would be amazing and could actually be really interesting. But just like doing this on its own, probably not." ([13:19], Emily)

[14:16]

• Felix’s "actual good reason" against 50-year mortgages:

  • The 30-year mortgage serves as "the number one most popular forced savings vehicle in America."

  • With a 50-year mortgage, after 30 years "the amount of equity that you've built up is tiny... because in the first 25 years of that mortgage it's basically all just interest payments."

  • This undermines middle-class wealth-building.

  • Felix Salmon [16:24]:

    "A lot of people pay off mortgages who don't save anything for retirement. And if you switch that to 50 years, then that part of American wealth building for the middle classes just goes away."

[17:21]

• Emily: Older homeowners have a lot of wealth "locked up" in their homes, but can't unlock it easily due to high prices, rate lock, and moving friction.
  • Felix: The real reason is "people feel locked into their mortgages", especially with low fixed rates.

[18:44]

• Emily mentions the emerging idea of portable and assumable mortgages as possible solutions for market liquidity.
  • Felix: Hard to execute — portable mortgages create risk for banks, likely requiring higher rates.

[19:50]

• Skepticism about complex financial products as solutions: "no one really trusts financial wizardry as a solution to the housing problem" (Felix).

[20:27]

• Elizabeth: The backlash shows that "when people are struggling financially, that will cause backlash even among some of the more diehard [Trump] supporters."

[21:02]

• Emily: The surprising part is just how much "mortgage and housing policy is actually interesting to normal regular people."

Notable Quotes

• Elizabeth [03:31]:
  "The idea that you might die before you actually own it outright is horrifying to people."
• Felix [04:16]:
  "The idea of... staying in your house and never moving and slowly paying it off over 30 years... that is... maybe 1 or 2% of homeowners have ever done that."
• Emily [05:22]:
  "The share of homeowners 75 or older with mortgage debt, 30%. In 1995, it was 5%."
• Felix [09:09]:
  "If the mortgage payments go down because you have this newfangled mortgage, then what that does is it basically just means that house prices go up and the mortgage payments stay the same."
• Felix [16:24]:
  "The 30-year mortgage has become the number one most popular forced savings vehicle in America... With a 50-year mortgage... at the end of the 30 years the amount of equity that you've built up is tiny."
• Emily [13:19]:
  "If President Trump and his policy experts... could come up with theoretically a plan to unveil a 50 year mortgage in conjunction with a huge construction push... that would be amazing and could actually be really interesting. But just like doing this on its own, probably not."

Segment 2: FTC Investigates ISS and Glass Lewis

[23:11]

• Wall Street Journal reports the FTC is looking at antitrust issues related to ISS and Glass Lewis, which dominate the shareholder proxy advisory market.
• Felix explains the context and why this matters:
  • Shareholders are too small/dispersed to vote on all governance issues themselves, so rely on proxy advisors.
  • This has yielded a duopoly.
• Elizabeth [25:46]:

  "I do not understand the antitrust case here, though. It's not like they have some kind of structural stranglehold on the market and that new entrants can't come in."

• Felix counters: antitrust is about market share/monopoly, not just barriers to entry.

[27:00]

• Proxy advisors act as one of the few checks on runaway executive pay, which "is the one realistic brake on ever-spiraling executive pay."
• BlackRock, Vanguard, and other giants can do their own voting, but the rest rely on ISS/Glass Lewis.
• Glass Lewis is shifting to paid/personalized recommendations by 2027.

[29:02]

• Panel agrees: it's hard to compete with entrenched duopolists, given the scale and complexity of public company governance.

[30:10]

• Felix: In reality, "99% of votes go the way that management want them to go... So what are we worried about? Even Elon got his trillion-dollar pay package."

[33:09]

• Discussion of how this relates to broader debates on shareholder and worker power.

[33:40]

• Felix: "I would much rather live in a world where the United States was a democracy and that the candidate who got the most votes became president, rather than this bizarre, dumb Electoral College thing."

Segment 3: Robinhood, Gopuff, and Cash Delivery

[38:21]

• Robinhood partners with Gopuff to let cash be delivered to customers’ doors for a fee.
• Felix explains this is, in part, Robinhood imitating services offered to the ultra-wealthy by private banks.
  • "Rather than having a private banker... they're just getting, like, a Gopuff guy."
• Jokes about the obvious illicit (or at least fringe) use cases:
  • Emily [39:17]:

    "What if you need drugs, illegal drugs to be delivered to your apartment? You need cash."

[40:26]

• Elizabeth wonders about logistics and security for Gopuff drivers.
• Emily concedes: "I think this is a cool idea, because it's annoying to get cash now.... I like the idea..."

[43:39]

• Felix counters that this is an edge-case product, and maybe the pain of discovering your card is expired is actually a helpful prompt.

Numbers Round and Closing [46:39]

• Emily's Number:

  • 19.8%: average tip at bars at 2am — the later and drunker, the higher the tip.

• Felix's Number:

  • 20%: share of billionaires who own controlling stakes in sports teams (up from 6% in 2022).

• Elizabeth's Number:

  • $229.95: price of an Issey Miyake iPhone pocket — "just a sling for your iPhone," inspired by an unrealized Jobs/Miyake collaboration.

Closing Banter

Lighthearted discussion about the lack of pockets in women’s clothing, leading to jokes about fake pockets and fashion bias.

Notable Quotes

• Elizabeth [03:31]: "The idea that you might die before you actually own it outright is horrifying to people."
• Felix [09:09]: "If the mortgage payments go down... that just means that house prices go up and the mortgage payments stay the same."
• Emily [19:21]: (on portable mortgages) "You leave the house with your mortgage in a little suitcase with you so you can use it to buy another house..."
• Felix [16:24]: "A lot of people pay off mortgages who don't save anything for retirement. And if you switch that to 50 years, then that part of American wealth building for the middle classes just goes away."
• Felix [10:28]: "People always choose the mortgage that results in the lowest monthly payment they can find. And that's always their longest mortgage."
• Emily [43:17]: "Sometimes, you know, I live sort of in a remote, ish area, so going to the ATM, you often have to, like, go out of your way ... so it would be good to have cash delivered."
• Felix [30:10]: "99% of votes go the way that management want them to go... even Elon got his trillion dollar pay package."

Noteworthy Timestamps

• 03:31: Elizabeth on the horror of debt-without-end
• 05:22: Emily on elderly mortgage debt data
• 07:39: Universal dislike of the 50-year mortgage idea
• 09:09: Felix on why longer mortgages push up house prices
• 13:19: Emily on history/context (FDR parallel)
• 16:24: Felix on the 30-year mortgage as forced savings
• 19:21: Emily on portable/assumable mortgages
• 23:11: FTC’s investigation of ISS/Glass Lewis explained
• 27:00: The role of proxy advisors in executive pay checks
• 30:10: Reality check—shareholders rarely have power
• 38:21: Robinhood, Gopuff, and cash delivery
• 43:17: Emily's defense of cash delivery for rural/remote areas
• 46:41: Numbers round (tips, billionaires, and iPhone pockets)
• 49:06: Banter on clothing pockets and gender bias

Tone and Style

The panel’s style is breezy, irreverent, and filled with skeptical humor about both policy fads and financial products. They maintain a frank, conversational tone while providing sharp economic analysis, peppered with self-deprecation and pop culture jokes ("illegal weed in a bag of cash", "Trump is never gonna read but will respond to a crayon picture").

Summary Takeaways

• 50-year mortgages are widely seen as a political stunt that would help neither homebuyers nor the housing market, serving mainly to inflate home prices and perpetuate debt. The reality of American homeownership (short duration, refinancing, moving) obviates the value of extreme mortgage terms.
• Proxy advisory duopoly is under antitrust scrutiny, though the "problem" is fuzzy given most power still rests with company management.
• Robinhood cash delivery is more a gimmick than an innovation, with amusing parallels to rich people's bank services — but also possible real-world value for those with limited access to cash.
• Cultural and practical issues (like pockets in women's clothes) are worthy of just as much passion and analysis as policy vaporware!

For Further Listening

If you enjoyed this episode’s focus on household finance policy and the economics of everyday life, check out previous installments featuring topics like “housing shortages,” “interest rates,” and “personal finance culture wars.”