Slate Money Podcast: "The Doomed Youth Edition"

Date: December 24, 2016
Host: Felix Salmon
Co-hosts: Kathy O’Neill, Jordan Weissmann

Episode Overview

This episode of Slate Money tackles some of the bleakest—yet crucial—public policy and business stories of the week. The panel explores America's ongoing lead poisoning crisis, the realities lurking behind China’s much-lauded education system, and whether giant internet platforms like Facebook and Google have any responsibility for hate speech and terrorism. The tone is witty and candid, weaving statistics and policy debate with personal anecdotes and sharp commentary.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. America's Ongoing Lead Poisoning Crisis

[03:00–15:39]

• Reuters Investigation Findings:

  • Reuters revealed alarming rates of lead poisoning among children in certain US neighborhoods.
  • National incidence: 2.5%. Flint, MI (water crisis): 5%, with pockets over 11%.
  • Some areas—such as census tracts in St. Joseph, MO (up to 20%), Baltimore (25–40%), and Pennsylvania (49 tracts over 40%)—have rates far surpassing Flint.

• Historical Context & Progress:

  • Both the proportion of children with high lead and the level considered "elevated" have dropped over decades.
  • “One of the reasons why the world is a better place now is precisely because we have much less lead in our blood.” – Jordan Weissmann [06:33]

• Impact on Health and Behavior:

  • Lead exposure linked to lower IQ, difficulty focusing, mood swings, antisocial behavior, and violence.
  • Reference to studies: adolescent violence plummets 16–20 years after unleaded gasoline is adopted.
    • "One of my favorite pieces of science is...what happens to rates of adolescent violence...after they move to unleaded gasoline. And it just plunges every single time." – Jordan Weissmann [08:53]

• Source & Policy Challenges:

  • Problems arise not just from water, but from old paint, soil, and lingering industrial contamination.
  • Causality is hard to pinpoint; some governments underplay lead in water via skewed testing.
  • Legal efforts to hold paint companies liable have largely failed; few successful state lawsuits.
  • Problems are concentrated in poorer areas; wealthier people can afford remediation.

• Statistical Analysis & Policy Implications:

  • Felix describes using statistical models (with help from Rebecca Golden) to show that the pockets found by Reuters are not random—implying a real, actionable problem.
  • The panel argues that concentration of cases makes remediation more feasible than if the problem was uniform nationwide.

2. The Truth Behind China’s "Amazing" Education System

[15:40–25:19]

• PISA Test Results & Myth Busting:

  • Past international comparisons (PISA exams) cited only Shanghai, painting an unrealistically rosy picture.
  • When four provinces are included, China’s results fall: 10th in science, 6th in math, 27th in reading.

• Educational Inequality in China:

  • Sharp division between urban and rural education; "rural education is both inferior and expensive." – Kathy O’Neill [19:45]
  • Strict rules often keep children of migrants from getting city education.

• Rise of Online Education Startups:

  • Chinese startup VIP Kid connects American teachers to Chinese students for $21/class (72-class package: $1,500).
  • Demand comes from parents dissatisfied with local schools and who can afford outside help.
  • Discussion covers the boom in for-profit education/online tutoring—a sector mistrusted in the U.S., but sometimes filling gaps in countries lacking public infrastructure.

• Pedagogical Takeaways:

  • VIP Kid experiments suggest allowing students to pick their own teachers may lead to better outcomes—a lesson not yet adopted at the elementary level in the U.S.
  • “They seem to be finding that when kids can pick their own teachers, they do better.” – Felix Salmon [24:46]
  • The importance of parental involvement: Chinese parents invest money and oversight, in contrast to many online learners in America.
  • Scalability of this model is questioned: physical space, culture, and economic ability are limiting factors.

3. Are Platforms Like Facebook Complicit in Hate and Terror?

[25:24–37:24]

• Lawsuits Against Tech Giants:

  • Families of Orlando Pulse nightclub victims are suing Google, Facebook, and Twitter, alleging their platforms “aided and abetted” radicalization because of terrorist content.

• The Section 230 Debate:

  • Platforms are generally shielded from liability for user content by Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (CDA).
  • The lawsuit argues that pairing ISIS content with ads makes platforms “co-creators” of illegal content.

• Panel’s View:

  • Hosts express skepticism, noting platforms actively take down terrorist content.
  • Clear distinction is drawn:
    • Stormfront is legal but odious; ISIS is illegal and quickly removed [31:12–32:09].
  • Kathy and Felix argue there are unresolved, gray areas—regarding algorithms amplifying libel or hate and the evolving role of editorial discretion.

• Algorithmic Editorializing & Social Harm:

  • Algorithms now decide what millions see, which blurs the line between platform and publisher.
  • The panel debates whether platforms should bear more responsibility if their algorithms amplify direct harm (e.g., “straight up libel”).
  • “Things like Section 230 were premised on the idea of platforms not making editorial decisions. And now we have algorithms making editorial decisions.” – Felix Salmon [35:55]
  • No consensus on what new legal frameworks should look like; all agree it’s complex and that careless changes could stifle free speech.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Lead Poisoning:

  • “We are much more aware of how weird behavior among our children can be caused by a disease. We used to just say, oh, that's just a kid being a kid.” – Kathy O’Neill [07:44]
  • “The good news is that we now know how to do that. We know where to go to do that.” – Jordan Weissmann [15:39]

• On Chinese Education:

  • “The irony...is when we talk about the money here...if we in America aren’t going to teach, pay for good teachers, then the Chinese people will pick up the tab.” – Kathy O’Neill [19:45]
  • [On online education] “If you set a price of zero for these courses, then 99% of people taking the courses are going to drop out.” – Felix Salmon [22:46]

• On Platform Responsibility:

  • “You have algorithms making editorial decisions. And it's not as if algorithms are neutral. It's just automated editorializing.” – Felix Salmon [35:55]
  • “We have to figure out a way to hold them responsible without ruining everything.” – Kathy O’Neill [37:08]

Numbers Round

[37:24–41:28]

• Kathy’s number: "112" – Uber’s self-driving cars spent 112 total ‘car-days’ in San Francisco before being ordered off roads.
• Jordan’s number: "17" – In Uganda, providing free sanitary pads reduced girls’ absenteeism by 17%.
• Felix’s number: "40" – Oprah reportedly lost 40 pounds on Weight Watchers, temporarily boosting the company’s stock 14%.

Closing Banter & Memorable Moments

• On New Year's Resolutions:
  • "My New Year's resolution is to gain 10 pounds and start smoking." – Kathy O’Neill [42:42]
  • The hosts joke about the futility of diet companies and “blaming Trump” for post-election weight gain.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Lead Poisoning Crisis: 03:00–15:39
• Chinese Education Realities & VIP Kid: 15:40–25:19
• Tech Platforms & Legal Liability: 25:24–37:24
• Numbers Round: 37:24–41:28
• Closing Banter: 41:28–end

Summary

This episode traverses urgent, thorny questions about environment, education, and technology—offering sobering facts, debunking popular narratives, and debating the unresolved legal/ethical issues emerging in a digital world. Balancing sharp humor and rigorous analysis, the hosts leave listeners with a clearer—if not always more optimistic—view of what’s shaping the lives and prospects of modern youth.