Slate Money: "The Land of Somewhat Normal"

Date: January 16, 2021
Host: Felix Salmon (Axios)
Co-hosts: Anna Szymanski (Rakingviews), Emily Peck (HuffPost)
Guest: Cathy O’Neil (author, mathematician, data scientist)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the rapidly shifting terrain of U.S. business, politics, and technology in the wake of the 2020 election. The panel analyzes Joe Biden’s sweeping $1.9 trillion economic stimulus proposal, the dramatic increase in political interventions by major corporations and CEOs, data insecurity from Parler and “internet of things” sex toy hacks, and the changing ideological landscape in Washington and Wall Street since 2016. Key themes are a return to “somewhat normal,” what genuinely counts as progress, anxieties over authoritarian tech power, and the hidden risks of digital life.

Key Discussion Points

1. Biden’s $1.9 Trillion Stimulus Proposal (01:00–15:43)

• Scope & Messaging:
  Biden’s proposed package is notably vast—akin to a “liberal’s dream,” touching public health, education, families, and workers.

  • Emily Peck: “It’s a $1.9 trillion package... It’s a message. The first message is: you can’t rescue the economy if you don’t stem this awful pandemic. So there’s lots of money to do that.” (01:57)
  • Includes funding for vaccine distribution, reopening schools, paid leave, child care rescue, and a $15 minimum wage.
  • Moves to end the tipped and subminimum wage for disabled workers.

• Decoupling Spending from Tax Increases:
  Felix Salmon: “There’s no pay for in this at all... It divorces the taxing and the spending… let’s just do the spending we need to do, and then if we need to raise taxes for whatever reason… we can do that in a separate bill.” (04:07)

• Political Realities and Possibilities:

  • The Democratic Senate majority after Georgia unlocked boldness.
  • The U.S. Chamber of Commerce endorsed the plan surprisingly quickly—signaling changing business attitudes.
  • Possible moderate Republican or Democratic opposition could shrink or even expand the final bill.

• Return to “Somewhat Normal”:
  Whole panel notes the contrast to Trump’s chaotic and incoherent pandemic response.

  • Emily Peck: “Just seeing a coherent plan... was really mind blowing to me.” (08:15)
  • Felix Salmon: “This is basically the Biden administration paying off the debts of the Trump administration. They’re coming in and paying off the credit card bill, basically cleaning up the mess.” (10:06)
  • Anna Szymanski: “It’s a return to normalcy, right?... we’ve existed in this Trump world for so long that really obvious things seem somewhat like, oh wow, we actually have a real plan.” (10:20)

• Norms and Progress:
  Cathy O’Neil: Emphasizes relief at regaining “norms,” but cautions about future frustrations with moderate politics and the limits of leftward policies.

  • “It’s good because he’s within our norm group. But it’s going to be just so frustrating but not scary and chaotic and actually existentially threatening. So that’s good.” (12:08)
  • Notes Biden’s economics are much further left than Obama-era moderates, citing a leftward shift among Democratic economists.

• Concerns Over Inflation and Scale:
  Felix contrasts the modern moment to the past, dismissing Larry Summers’ worries:

  • “No government has ever done this kind of thing... If it means more inflation, I’m like, bring it. We need more inflation.” (14:08)

  • Emily Peck: “This is also kind of like a do-over for the way that they didn’t go big in the Great Recession… Don’t F this up again. Like, we don’t want to go through ten years of a sluggish recovery again. Go big.” (15:18)

2. The New Political Power of CEOs and Corporations (15:43–27:27)

• Emergence of the “Fourth Branch”:
  Felix Salmon: Observes CEOs (notably of Twitter and Facebook) have acted faster and more decisively against Trump than Congress.

  • “It’s CEOs… having more power than Congress to censure Donald Trump… and flexing political money muscles in very explicit ways.” (15:45)

• Corporate Money vs. Democracy:
  Cathy O’Neil: Suggests business pressure—more than voter opinion—moved Mitch McConnell on impeachment and dried up GOP funding:

  • “We’re literally saying… never mind the democratic masses, we need the money.” (17:32)

  Emily Peck: Skeptical of sudden corporate courage:

  • “Congrats. You’re so brave, CEOs of America… It is really disturbing that it’s not the people who have the power to censure Trump. It’s like companies Whispering to Mitch McConnell: We won’t give you money anymore.” (19:43)

• Limits and Dangers of Corporate Activism:

  • It’s anti-democratic; decisions on banning Trump or cutting donations are made by a few unaccountable people.
  • “Companies aren’t democracies… they can be a lot more nimble.” (Anna Szymanski, 18:45)
  • Corporate shifts (e.g., suspending donations to anti-certification Republicans) may be temporary, not a lasting change.
  • Longer-term, the Republican coalition appears split: “The Republican Party can no longer really encompass both of those. It can no longer encompass the corporate donors and the Trumpists.” (Felix, 22:45)

• Uncharted Political Territory:

  • Panel wonders about the future of the “business party” as corporations find little alignment with Trumpism, but also no clear home in Democratic circles primarily focused on taxation and regulation.

3. Parler Hack, Digital Security, and Internet of Things (28:07–37:38)

• Parler’s Collapse:

  • Cathy O’Neil: “Parler is the alternative social media platform for Nazis… a lot of the planning of the riot happened on Parler and then they got shut down.” (28:38)
  • Parler’s atrocious security allowed hackers to create admin accounts and mass-download all user data—including “deleted” content and drivers’ licenses.

• Internet of Things (IoT) Sex Toy Hack:

  • Cathy’s mom, a computer science professor, explained how bad coding in a connected male chastity belt allowed hackers to take control.
  • Hackers sent the message: “Your cock is mine now,” and demanded a bitcoin ransom. (32:40)
  • Mostly the locked devices were not in use, so the threat was more theoretical than practical.

• Common Lessons:

  • Security is often neglected by developers, and average users have no real way to judge the safety of apps, platforms, or devices.

  • Felix Salmon: “If you’re a user of social media apps or chastity belts or anything that is connected to the Internet, you do not have the ability… to work out whether what you’re using is secure or not. So there’s so much that you just wind up taking on trust.” (34:38)

  • Cathy suggests a business model for independent infosec testing, but recognizes limitations due to rapid evolution and varying threats (e.g., NSA vs. hackers).

  • Anna Szymanski: “Maybe don’t be an early adopter…” (36:49)

  • Cathy O’Neil: (On connected sex toys) “Internet of Things sex toys are worth the risk… still safer than an actual man.” (36:57)

4. Numbers Round (37:38–44:09)

1. Cathy O’Neil — 74%

• UT Austin computer science used an algorithm to cut the time spent reviewing grad applications by 74%; the concern: it automated existing biases rather than removing them. (37:41)
  • “How much time can we save by making a computer do this biased, racist, sexist thing?” (38:16)

2. Anna Szymanski — 66%

• The average annual pre-fee return of Renaissance Technologies’ Medallion Fund, 1988–2018, highlighting the scale of private market profits that fund projects like Parler and political influence.
  • “The story of Renaissance Technologies is fascinating...” (40:04)
  • Note: outside (non-employee) investors lost money, especially in 2020.

3. Felix Salmon — $12.1 billion

• JPMorgan's Q4 2020 profit: the largest ever for a bank, with a 40% profit margin.
  • “It is more profitable than Facebook, which is meant to just be an algorithm that throws off money.” (43:01)

4. Emily Peck — $3,000/month

• Amount the Secret Service paid monthly to rent a studio apartment toilet so agents guarding Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner could use the bathroom.
  • “They basically rented a toilet… so far spent over, I think $140,000…” (44:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Felix Salmon (on Biden’s package): “This is every liberal’s wet dream, right?” (05:18)
• Cathy O’Neil (on tech company bans): “We’re literally saying… never mind the democratic masses, we need the money.” (17:32)
• Emily Peck (on CEOs standing up to Trump): “Congrats. You’re so brave, CEOs of America.” (19:43)
• Cathy O’Neil (on IoT chastity belt hack): “That hacker… took control of people’s chastity belts, literally sent them the message, your cock is mine now.” (32:40)
• Anna Szymanski (on reopening schools): “This is kind of like a backdoor small business rescue… absolutely crucial to the function of the economy.” (01:52)
• Cathy O’Neil (on algorithms): “They just said, oh, we’ve done this so many years and it’s so time consuming. Let’s just automate this.” (38:16)

Important Timestamps

• 01:00 – Biden’s $1.9 trillion stimulus: structure, priorities, and message
• 04:00 – Decoupling spending and taxes: economic orthodoxy shifts
• 10:06 – “Cleaning up the mess”: Biden as post-crisis janitor for Trump
• 12:21 – Norms, frustration, and the changing center
• 14:08 – Economic leftward turn and Larry Summers as a villain
• 15:43 – CEO and corporate political activism, big tech’s power
• 17:32 – Corporate money is more decisive than public will
• 28:38 – Parler hack: timeline, technical failings, aftermath
• 32:27 – Hacked chastity belt: technical explanation, comic/ridiculous details
• 34:38 – Consumer trust and the impossibility of individual security analysis
• 37:38 – Numbers round (automation in academia, hedge fund returns, record bank profits, and Secret Service bathroom rental)

Tone & Style

The panel is conversational, witty, and at times playful—even when delving into dark or absurd corners of business and technology. There is room for both skepticism and optimism: the excitement about a rational government response is balanced with deep worries about systemic corporate power and digital vulnerabilities. The show’s mix of “normalcy” and “strange times” underscores their subtitle: welcome to the land of somewhat normal.