Slate Money – "The Optimism Edition"

Release Date: November 26, 2016
Host: Felix Salmon (Fusion)
Panelists: Cathy O’Neil (author, Weapons of Math Destruction), Jordan Weissman (Slate), Laura Arnold (Co-founder, Laura and John Arnold Foundation)

Episode Overview

This special "Optimism Edition" of Slate Money takes place around Thanksgiving and focuses on philanthropy: what it can—and should—be doing to improve society, especially in the wake of Donald Trump's election. The episode features an in-depth conversation with Laura Arnold, a leading philanthropist, about systemic change, criminal justice reform, data-driven interventions, surveillance and civil liberties, and the challenged role of philanthropy in politically uncertain times. Throughout, the hosts bring skepticism, tough questions, and moments of genuine hope.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Tone: Seeking Optimism in a Difficult Year

• The panel reflects on the need for hope amidst a "brutal year," with the Thanksgiving tradition inspiring a focus on giving and philanthropy.
• Felix Salmon jokes about dubbing it the "No Surrender Edition" in tribute to Bruce Springsteen (00:08).

2. Laura Arnold’s Philanthropic Mission and Approach

(01:56 – 03:17)

• Laura Arnold describes the mission: systemic change targeting "systems that are not functioning optimally for society."
• The foundation’s areas of work include: criminal justice, research integrity, education, healthcare, democracy, public finance, pensions.
• Quote: "We are in the business of changing the country, saving the world, making people's lives better. We do that through systemic change." – Laura Arnold (02:22)

3. Criminal Justice Reform: The Problem with Pretrial Detention

(04:07 – 11:56)

• Kathy O’Neil asks about the foundation’s work with Anne Milgram on pretrial detention reform.
• Laura Arnold discusses structural injustice:
  • "The vast majority of those people are nonviolent offenders who are only there because they can't make bail." (09:14)
  • Pretrial phase is unjust—many are incarcerated simply for being unable to pay even a small bail.
  • Racial and economic inequities compound at each stage.
• The foundation responds by developing a data-driven risk assessment tool to inform judicial decisions on pretrial release.

4. Algorithms, Data, and Transparency in Criminal Justice

(11:56 – 18:09)

• Jordan Weissman: How do you ensure these models don't perpetuate bias? How do you know when an algorithm is working?
• Arnold: Emphasizes need for transparency and plans to make data and algorithms available.
• O’Neil pushes for audits, meta-analyses, and public accountability: "The problem is the lack of accountability." (15:41)
• Laura Arnold acknowledges regulatory complexity and privacy concerns but commits to anonymized data sharing and external audits.

"We are, we are in the business of making people's lives better, and we want nothing more than collaboration from anybody." – Laura Arnold (17:21)

• O’Neil suggests using evidence of algorithmic racial bias as an opportunity to discover causal factors and interventions, not just as a condemnation (18:09).

5. Accountability and the Limits of Philanthropy

(19:34 – 21:49)

• Discussion on whether private foundations like Arnold’s have too much power without public accountability.
• Arnold disagrees that they impose top-down solutions: "We do not go into any jurisdiction where we're not asked to enter. We have a 200 person waiting list..." (20:56)
• Foundation sees itself as a resource, not a ruler.

6. Surveillance Philanthropy: The Baltimore ‘Persistent Surveillance Systems’ Pilot

(21:49 – 35:10)

• The foundation funded a plane with cameras to record Baltimore from above to help solve violent crimes (Persistent Surveillance Systems).
• Civil liberties were a major concern—the project was implemented with little public consultation.
• Arnold: The intention was to pilot, not impose; community decision is vital but acknowledges public debate is necessary.
• O’Neil: Raises the core issue of who defines “success”—benefits are measured but costs to privacy and freedom are less quantifiable (30:50).
• Arnold: Ultimately, the adoption of such technology should be a product of public debate and democratic decision-making, not unilateral philanthropic power.

"It is not my role to make that value judgment for any community. I view my role as providing the option." – Laura Arnold (30:50)

• Felix draws an analogy between options inherent in finance (Arnold’s family background) and options in surveillance—whereby new options always expand, rarely retract (31:52).
• O’Neil and Salmon stress that data and “objective” discussions cannot wholly capture the cost to lived experience and civil liberty (34:49).

7. Philanthropy in the Era of Trump: Resistance, Continuity, and Civil Society

(35:57 – 44:12)

• Felix asks how philanthropy should change in a more hostile political environment.
• Arnold: Must keep working for progress, even if it means coalition-building “with people we don't like.” (37:05)

"We need to move forward even in light of individuals who we find distasteful, dishonorable, deplorable." – Laura Arnold (37:05)

• The hosts discuss how personal giving has shifted—listeners are donating more to ACLU, Planned Parenthood, and advocacy groups.
• Jordan Weissman: Should philanthropy focus more on less-quantifiable goals like civil society and resilience?
• Arnold: Her foundation’s core mission remains data-driven systemic change, but she personally supports civil society orgs; emphasizes the importance of checks and balances like the ACLU.

8. Action Beyond Donations: Empowering Organizers and Responding to Crisis

(44:12 – 46:11)

• O’Neil proposes “work apps” – crowd-powered digital platforms for reproductive rights, immigration defense, etc., connecting those in need with those who can help (housing, money, legal aid).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "[Philanthropy is] an opportunity the individual has to express his meaningful choice over the direction in which our society will progress." – Listener email quoting George Kirstein, read by Jordan (48:06)
• "I gave money to Planned Parenthood in honor of Mike Pence and had the donation certificate sent to the Governor's Mansion in Indiana." – Listener Carol, via Jordan (48:05)
• Discussing the gap between philanthropy and the welfare state: "I hope no one out there is thinking that...we shouldn't also be fighting to maintain what the government does for the poor and the needy." – Jordan (48:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|---------------| | Panel Introductions, Theme for Optimism | 00:08 – 01:56 | | Laura Arnold lays out foundation strategy | 02:01 – 03:17 | | Criminal justice reform discussion begins | 04:07 | | Problems with pretrial detention and bail | 05:12 – 09:45 | | Data, algorithms, and transparency | 11:56 – 18:09 | | Foundation accountability debate | 19:34 – 21:49 | | Baltimore surveillance pilot controversy | 21:49 – 35:10 | | Civil liberties and philanthropic choices | 25:16 – 35:10 | | Philanthropy post-election, activist energy | 35:57 – 44:12 | | Suggestions for activism apps | 44:12 – 46:11 | | Listener feedback & philanthropy as activism | 39:25 – 44:12, 48:05 – 48:59 | | Numbers round (bail, censorship, Brexit cost) | 46:24 – 49:43 |

Tone & Style

The conversation is earnest, probing, and occasionally contentious, with Felix mediating between Laura Arnold’s optimism, Jordan’s skepticism, and Cathy’s technical criticality. The language is direct and informal—full of expert knowledge but grounded in accessible examples and real listener concerns.

For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode offers an illuminating look at how philanthropy aims to change failing systems, grapples with the unintended effects of data and technology, and must navigate legitimacy and democracy in tense political times. You'll hear real debates on accountability, surveillance, racial justice, the limitations and possibilities of giving, and how individual and institutional actions interlock to form civil society.

Standout Moment

"We need to move forward even in light of individuals who we find distasteful, dishonorable, deplorable. Right. We need to move forward." – Laura Arnold (37:05)

This encapsulates the episode’s underlying message: that optimism isn't naïve, but a form of determined engagement—even (and especially) in anxious times.