Slate Money: "The Powerful and The Damned"
Date: February 6, 2021
Host: Felix Salmon with Emily Peck & Anna Shymansky
Guest: Lionel Barber (former editor, Financial Times)
Episode Overview
This episode features a wide-ranging interview with Lionel Barber, former editor of the Financial Times and author of The Powerful and the Damned: Private Diaries in Turbulent Times. The discussion centers on Barber’s experiences reporting from inside the global corridors of power, media ethics, the transformation of journalism, the nature of modern CEOs, power dynamics in politics and media, issues of diversity in newsrooms, central banking’s rising political profile, and Barber’s post-FT venture into The New European.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Navigating Power as a Journalist
- Devil’s Bargain of Access vs. Accountability
- Lionel Barber: “There’s always a bit of a devil’s bargain in dealing with sources, especially when they're sources in power ... this is the trade off between access and capture. ... You’re not friends with these people. ... My view was always put the reader first.” (02:32)
- On distinguishing between professional proximity and personal affinity:
- Barber emphasizes not being friends with his sources, with rare exceptions, and focuses on reader service above access. (04:35)
2. Media, Politics, and Influence
- Discussion of the uniquely intertwined media and political landscape in the UK compared to the US.
- Felix Salmon: Notes the friendship networks among British journalists/politicians (e.g., Cameron, Johnson) vs. the US separation. (03:44)
- Barber clarifies— with the notable exception of Mario Draghi— he maintains professional distance from powerful figures. (05:44)
3. The Financial Crisis and Editorial Blind Spots
- Barber reflects on whether proximity to central bankers and power influenced pre-crisis coverage.
- Lionel Barber: “A bigger mistake ... is if you’re so close to the central bankers, you look at the world as saving the financial system ... you’re not paying sufficient attention to the unintended consequences like asset inflation.” (06:13)
- On missed coverage before the financial crisis: “We did a very good job, but I could have done it more prominently.” (07:33)
4. Power of CEOs, Especially in Tech
- Explores how tech CEOs—Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Sundar Pichai—have become core power brokers.
- Felix Salmon: "CEOs are increasingly becoming the fourth branch of government ..." (09:55)
- Lionel Barber: “What I was describing... is how certain people running tech companies... [have] a mixture of their libertarian instincts and tone deafness... they’re beginning to understand... potential negative consequences.” (12:18)
- Comparison of banking CEOs pre-2008 (arrogant, hubristic) and tech CEOs (naive, tone-deaf). (13:41)
- “The tech CEOs ... just think they really are doing good.” (13:41)
5. Monopoly Power and Market Dominance
- Felix Salmon: Points out differences—banking CEOs competed, tech CEOs live off monopolies.
- Lionel Barber: “These de facto monopolies ... is a serious problem. The way Facebook gobbled up WhatsApp and Instagram ... was not challenged by regulators at all.” (16:07)
6. The Business of Journalism and Digital Transformation
- Barber takes pride in leading the FT’s digital transformation. Describes difficult decisions and commitment to profitability.
- Lionel Barber: “We preserved the newspaper, ... but we increasingly became a global subscription business. ... We doubled the paying readership to more than a million.” (17:21)
- Emily Peck: Jokes the FT’s paywall is stronger than Trump’s wall (18:32)
- On potential editorial skew: Barber insists they did real, ground-level reporting, not just covering elites; admits missing the pro-Brexit sentiment due to metropolitan and economic bias. (19:43)
7. The Profit Motive vs. Investing in Growth
- Debate over whether focus on profit limited FT’s growth compared to the tech mindset of embracing losses for market dominance.
- Felix Salmon: “You didn’t want to invest in growth, right?” (22:16)
- Lionel Barber: “We were owned by a public company... we had to meet budgets. ... The reason I didn't want to be editor of the loss-making FT was ... I could say fuck you to any commercial people who are trying to tell me what to do, because we were making money.” (24:49)
8. The Shifting Role of Newspapers
- The panel questions if newspaper endorsements still matter in a digital-first, fragmented environment.
- Lionel Barber: “Overall [endorsements] doesn’t matter at all. ... much more important to understand that it’s not a newspaper, it's a news organization. It’s digital now.” (27:20)
9. The New European and Anti-Brexit Journalism
- Barber’s new involvement: The New European, born from the Brexit debate; its future as Brexit is “settled” now. (29:32)
10. Central Bankers in Politics, Italy, and Draghi
- Mario Draghi as Italian PM—Barber lauds Draghi’s competence but outlines immense challenges.
- Lionel Barber: “He has an enormously difficult task because he doesn’t come out of the political arena. ... If he can do 60 or 70% of [the reforms], he will be hero of Italy. And I would give him even chances.” (30:49)
- Broader theme: technocrat/central banker ascendance amidst political distrust.
- Barber: “It says something about the moral authority of our politicians, that the technocrats, the central bankers, are seen as the sort of potential saviors.” (33:57)
11. Quantitative Easing and Economic Policy
- Central bankers’ growing policy scope; fiscal vs. monetary power.
- “We’ve just got addicted to easy money ... to keep everything afloat.” (34:36)
12. Diversity and Culture at the FT and in Journalism
- Tackling the “alpha male problem,” improving gender and other diversity. (36:44)
- Lionel Barber: “I made a commitment ... that the top leadership of the FT would be 50/50 on gender balance by 2022... and we have. ... Now there’s actually more AMEs ... who are women than men. ... Did we seriously diversify? Did we actually crack the gender gap? You bet.” (36:44, 38:14)
- On why diversity matters:
- “Otherwise you’re looking at the world through a narrow prism.” (39:44)
- Emphasis on management, mentorship, and encouraging confidence. (41:42)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Mario Draghi:
“Probably the only person that I felt a real affinity to ... was Mario Draghi, who is the President of the European Central Bank. ... I did respect him enormously. I thought he was doing really a historical role and he helped not quite single handedly save the euro...”
— Lionel Barber (04:35) -
On Telling Off Powerful People:
“Yes, I used [Steve Schwarzman] as a source, I talked to him, but I also told him to fuck off in Davos, so I couldn't have been that chummy. And that's in the book.”
— Lionel Barber (08:24) -
On Tech vs. Bank CEOs:
“The tech CEOs ... just think they really are doing good. ... It’s genuinely shocking that they didn’t wake up earlier to ... the consequences of what was going on [at Facebook].”
— Lionel Barber (13:41) -
On The FT’s Paywall:
“Your paywall is relentless. It’s very strong. If Donald Trump wanted to build a wall, ... he should have come to you guys.”
— Emily Peck (18:32) -
On Profitability and Editorial Independence:
“One of the reasons I didn't want to be the editor of the loss-making FT was because I could say fuck you to any commercial people... because we were making money.”
— Lionel Barber (25:02) -
On Diversity:
“It's really important ... to have a diverse set of views around the table, people from different backgrounds... The best news organizations are going to be alive and alert to different points of view.”
— Lionel Barber (39:44)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Introduction & Book Context: 00:10-01:48
- Devil’s Bargain: Access and Reporting: 01:48-03:44
- Media & Politics in UK vs. US: 03:44-05:44
- Financial Crisis Coverage: 06:13-07:33
- Populism, Brexit, and Powerful Men: 07:33-09:14
- CEOs as Power Centers & Monopoly Worries: 09:55-16:07
- Digital Journalism and FT Transformation: 16:55-18:32
- Paywall and Elitism in Journalism: 18:32-19:43
- Profit Motive vs. Investment in News: 21:26-27:20
- The New European & Brexit: 29:32-30:33
- Mario Draghi & Central Banker Politicians: 30:49-33:57
- Quantitative Easing & Economic Policy: 34:36-35:05
- Diversity and Newsroom Change: 36:44-41:42
- Numbers Round (FT Journalist Numbers, NYT & The Child Check Proposal): 41:52-45:10
- Farewell Announcement for Anna Shymansky: 46:19-47:06
Tone & Style
The episode balances sharp wit (notably in the jabs about the FT’s paywall and telling billionaires off) with thoughtful, introspective analysis on power, editorial ethics, and institutional reform. Lionel Barber is candid and punctuates his points with well-told anecdotes, pragmatic optimism, and a keen sense of journalistic duty. The hosts maintain a lively and sometimes combative but always engaging atmosphere.
Summary Takeaway
"The Powerful and The Damned" provides a rare, candid look behind the scenes at the intersection of journalism, business, and global politics. Lionel Barber’s stories and reflections offer valuable lessons in editorial ethics, leadership, navigating relationships with powerful figures, and adapting to the digital era—while confronting persistent challenges in diversity and the evolving power structures of both media and economics.