Slate Money Podcast Summary: The Professional Identity Edition

Date: March 12, 2016
Host: Felix Salmon (Fusion)
Guests: Cathy O’Neil (mathbabe.org), Stacey Vanek Smith (NPR’s Planet Money)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into three interconnected issues at the heart of business and finance:

1. The market for “citizenship by investment” in small nations like St. Kitts and Nevis
2. Why so few women are nominated to boards by activist investors
3. The complex relationship between professional identity, work culture, and personal fulfillment in white-collar jobs

The tone is lively, irreverent, and analytical, mixing first-hand reporting, data, and personal anecdotes.

1. Buying Citizenship: The Business Behind Second Passports

(Starts ~02:15)
Main discussion led by: Stacey Vanek Smith (Planet Money)

What’s Happening in St. Kitts and Nevis?

• St. Kitts and Nevis is a small Caribbean nation about an hour south of Puerto Rico.
• Facing the collapse of their sugar economy, they turned to “citizenship by investment.”
  • Donate $250,000 outright or invest $400,000 in local property for citizenship.
  • “It’s like a lollipop at the bank, provided you pass the background check.” — Stacey (04:03)
• The background check is minimal (“basically, that you are not a known criminal, although there have been some problems with that.” — Stacey, 04:20).

Who Buys In and Why?

• Not primarily for Americans — “Americans... do it for tax reasons because they don’t like paying taxes. But... the Americans... really, really, really hate people who renounce their American citizenship.” — Felix (06:10)
• Most buyers are wealthy Russians, Chinese, Indians, South Africans, and some Europeans seeking visa-free travel or to avoid taxes.
• No need to live there or even visit.

Impact on St. Kitts and Nevis

• The influx of cash led to a boom in luxury housing development.
  • “All these housing developments started going up... a lot of people didn’t come. So there are all these really fancy timeshares… but there are only 45,000 people in the whole country.” — Stacey (09:30)
  • Locals can’t afford most new units; many houses stand empty.
  • The boom creates construction jobs but drives inequality and disconnect in the local economy.
  • “You can’t get much more useless than an empty housing project...where no one was ever going to live.” — Cathy (11:18)

Notable Moment

• Discussion ties into global debates on “socially useless finance.” Felix references Adair Turner’s book labeling high-end housing developments for absentee owners as the epitome of “socially useless finance.” (10:45)

Comparison with the U.S.

• The U.S. has a similar EB-5 visa, which has been exploited by developers (including Donald Trump) to fast-track wealthy foreign buyers, sometimes with minimal vetting.
  • “So not much of a background check going on.” — Cathy (13:57)

Memorable Segment:

• The team jokes about how “easy” it is for the ultra-wealthy to buy their way into citizenship, while poor refugees face impossible odds.
  • “It’s not a short process and it’s certainly not a cheap process, but it’s also something which is entirely doable [for the rich].” — Felix (11:54)

2. Activist Investors and the Absence of Women on Boards

(Starts ~15:54)
Main discussion led by: Cathy O’Neil and Felix Salmon

Key Points:

• Women make up only about 19% of board members on average, but the figure drops drastically with activist investor-appointed seats.
  • “Top five activist investor firms: seven out of 174 nominees in the last five years are women.” — Cathy (18:36)
• Carl Icahn: 42 board nominees in five years, zero women.
• Activist investors look for quick, drastic changes, sending their “hand-picked men” to boards for short-term profit, not long-term diversity or value.
  • “The activist investor mindset is not a long-term investor mindset...For that you don’t need diversity.” — Felix (19:24)

Speculation and Theorizing

• Is it about a lack of qualified women, or something deeper?
  • “Women are actually less likely to be foot soldiers at that level...less likely to say, I’m willing to just say this one thing over and over again and only vote on that one issue.” — Cathy (21:05)
  • “Would a woman going in with a mission have a harder time executing the mission than a man would?” — Stacey (21:40)
  • Perceptions about toughness and negotiation skills may deter activist investors from choosing women.
• “The key words here being long term. The activist investor mindset is not a long term investor mindset.” — Felix (19:24)

Memorable Moment:

• Felix shares a nostalgic story about suggesting Cathy for the Goldman Sachs board in a past blog, sparking a discussion on the appearance (or lack thereof) of real diversity on boards. (24:26)

A Real Quote from Bloomberg:

• “To be sure, activists usually seek board nominees with particular business experience...” mocked by the panel as circular justification for the status quo. (23:05)

Broader Implications:

• Diversity isn’t just about gender; it’s tied to diversity of opinion, which boards often resist for stability.
  • “Diversity isn’t just whether it’s female or male...diversity of opinion is something that a lot of boards are actually really afraid of. And it is represented...by diversity of gender.” — Cathy (25:24)

3. Professional Identity: Why Do We (White-Collar Workers) Like Work So Much?

(Starts ~28:59)
Main discussion led by: Felix Salmon and Cathy O’Neil

Based on Ryan Avent’s Essay in the Economist

• Avent argued he enjoys his “professional life” — being in the office, with co-workers, is central to his personal fulfillment.
  • “All of this being in the office, talking to my colleagues, is actually so much a part of my identity and so part of what makes me fulfilled on a personal level that I enjoy working.” — Felix paraphrasing Avent (29:49).
• Elite professionals work 60-80 hours/week, not because they have to, but because they like it.

Structural and Cultural Explanations

• White-collar competition (law, tech, finance) is “winner take all”; doing better means working harder and more hours (30:24).
• John Maynard Keynes’s prediction that we’d all work 15 hours/week by now proved wrong — now the rich work the longest hours.
  • “The rich are working way more than the poor...Is that some weird aberration, or are we moving to a Star Trek-style utopian future where work and leisure are the same thing?” — Felix (31:02)

The Pleasures and Pitfalls of Workaholism

• There’s “something zen” about the single focus of work, which can make life simpler, even relaxing (!) — Stacey (32:15).
• Outsourcing home life (childcare, chores) enables the work-centric model; this isn’t new but used to be reserved for “academic or scholarly men.” — Cathy (33:24).

Social Consequences

• Professional relationships substitute for neighborhood/community ties. People spend more time and form deeper bonds with colleagues.
• “It creates homogeneity...you talk to your colleagues who make around the same amount of money...and then you can compete very, very specifically with that.” — Cathy (37:03).

A Critical Note

• What about those who don’t enjoy work or have no access to rewarding jobs?
  • “If countries and economies are run by the elite and the elite actually don’t mind working so much, does that mean that they set things up for the benefit of the people who don’t mind working?” — Felix (34:24)

Personal Reflections

• Cathy speaks about finding a way out of the “rat race” as an independent consultant and the social discomfort of lacking a traditional professional identity (35:02).

4. Numbers Round

(Starts ~39:54)

• Cathy: $33 billion — Amount of money in “forgotten” or unclaimed bank accounts in the U.S.
• Stacey: $1 — Symbolizes both the return of the dollar breakfast menu at Taco Bell and the idea that “you can get a meal for $1” (42:34).
• Felix: $15.6 trillion — Total household and nonprofit income in the U.S. (Q4 2015), all-time high. $86.8 trillion net worth for households and nonprofits (44:21).

Memorable/Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “It’s like a lollipop at the bank, provided you pass the background check.” — Stacey (04:03)
• “You can’t get much more useless than an empty housing project in the island where no one was ever going to live there, right?” — Cathy (11:18)
• “Women just don’t think in a single track. I think women actually have nuanced perspectives.” — Cathy (21:54)
• “The activist investor mindset is not a long term investor mindset.” — Felix (19:24)
• “All of this being in the office, talking to my colleagues, is actually so much a part of my identity and so part of what makes me fulfilled on a personal level that I enjoy working.” — Felix paraphrasing Ryan Avent (29:49)

Key Timestamps for Segments

• 01:15 — Intro and guest introductions
• 02:15 — St. Kitts and Nevis citizenship segment begins
• 15:54 — Women & activist investor boards
• 28:59 — Work, identity, and professional fulfillment
• 39:54 — Numbers round

Final Thoughts

This episode of Slate Money uses wit and deep subject knowledge to connect seemingly disparate business stories — offshoring of citizenship, gender and power in corporate governance, and the modern white-collar obsession with work — revealing how economics shapes identity, opportunity, and social norms. The hosts challenge each other and draw on research, real stories, and a healthy dose of skepticism.

Listeners walk away with insight into the structural forces shaping global finance, workplace norms, and the limits of individual agency in systems built for the already-powerful.