Slate Money – "Toby for Prime Minister"

Episode Date: July 27, 2019
Host: Felix Salmon (A), joined by Emily Peck (B) and Anna Szymanski (C)
Main Theme:
A lively roundtable on three pressing business/political topics: Facebook’s landmark FTC fine and its implications, the rise of Boris Johnson as UK Prime Minister with Brexit looming, and a surprisingly fraught exposé on the real safety of safety deposit boxes. Plus, memorable banter and the occasional cameo from Toby the studio dog.

Episode Overview

This episode of Slate Money focuses on three main stories:

• The record-setting $5 billion FTC fine imposed on Facebook
• Boris Johnson becoming the UK Prime Minister, the parallels with Trump, and the unstoppable uncertainty of Brexit
• A deeper look into the pitfalls and myths around safety deposit boxes in banks

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The $5 Billion Facebook FTC Fine

[00:47 – 15:00]

• The Size and Significance of the Fine
  • Emily (C): “$5 billion.”
  • Is $5 billion big or small? Depends on perspective—huge for the FTC, relatively small for Facebook’s bottom line.
  • Anna (B): “It's a fine and it's a tougher fine than most people expected before the FTC came out. And it's also just in terms of size, maybe not in terms of how much it constrains what Facebook does going forward.” [02:00]
  • Comparison: Larger than Facebook's acquisition of Instagram, and the largest FTC-levied tech fine by far.
• FTC Negotiations and Zuckerberg’s Responsibility
  • Facebook aggressively fought against moves to hold Mark Zuckerberg personally responsible.
  • A privacy oversight committee was created, but its efficacy is questioned.
    • Anna (B): “It's kind of like an audit committee ... somewhat similar to what they've tried to do with the regulation of financial institutions in terms of auditing rules, kind of like Sarbanes–Oxley.” [03:44]
    • Emily (C): “It’s kind of weak sauce.” [04:12]
• Political Split and the Limits of U.S. Regulation
  • FTC’s split decision: 3 Republicans for the deal, 2 Democrats against (wanted to go to court).
  • Anna (B): “Currently the laws related to tech just aren't great. That's part of the problem.” [05:40]
• The Blurry Line of Tech Accountability
  • Anna notes Zuckerberg will now have to sign off on the privacy committee’s statements; theoretically increasing personal liability.
  • Emily recalls Facebook using phone numbers from 2FA for targeted ads as a textbook “deceptive practice.” [06:55]
• The Antitrust Debate and Calls for New Legislation
  • DOJ opening broader reviews into tech giants, but panel is skeptical of anything meaningful arising from it.
    • Emily (C): “It’s all bark and no bite.” [09:10]
    • Anna (B): Both Democrats and Republicans are motivated—but will they ever actually pass legislation?
    • Felix (A): “If you wanted to make something illegal, you can just make it illegal.” [10:35] (on Congress’s responsibility)
• Public Trust and the Feeling of Futility
  • Stat cited: 60% of Americans don’t trust Facebook at all.
    • Emily (C): “You need people to trust that company, otherwise the whole thing falls apart.” [12:28]
  • Felix (A): Even if you don’t use Facebook, odds are it still knows about you and monetizes your data. [12:57]
  • “This is not in any way a problem that either can or should be addressed by individual actions.” [14:31]

2. Boris Johnson Becomes UK Prime Minister & Brexit Chronicles

[15:31 – 28:56]

• The Boris Phenomenon
  • Felix (A): “I'm not quite sure what to say about Boris Johnson, to be honest.” [15:41]
  • Panel discusses the similarities and differences between Johnson and Trump—humorously noting they share “bottomless wells of self-confidence” and eccentric hairstyles.
  • Quirky fact: Boris Johnson was born in New York City and had to renounce American citizenship during his political ascent.
  • Boris portrayed as “a figure basically without principle.” [18:29]
    • Anna (B): “He does seem to be this figure basically without principle … but then I also wonder if there's some way that maybe it could actually allow him to actually get some type of deal through. … He’s not going to care about going back on his word because that’s all he ever does.” [18:29]
• The Brexit Puzzle—Still Unsolved
  • Johnson is “charged with actually delivering this Brexit that he campaigned for that 52% voted for … and has said very clearly he wants to go out of the EU on October 31, which, of course, is Halloween. … That's honestly terrifying.” [19:01]
  • Impact on business: Cheddar exports as a metonym (“A £500 block of cheddar becomes £1,200 overnight”), generalized to every British export sector. [20:43]
  • Parliament deadlock: No Brexit plan commands a majority; possible vote of no confidence in Boris could trigger a new election.
  • Unpredictability reigns: “We have literally less vision into the future of Brexit now than we did three hours after the referendum.” [22:46]
  • Severe impact: “There's been just a massive lack of inward investment into the UK for obvious reasons. … You will still have had such a hit to the economy for all of these years of lack of investment, lack of consumption that you just can't easily make up.” [22:58]
• Leadership Issues & Democratic Shortcomings
  • The undemocratic path: Conservative Party voters (just 0.2% of the UK) decided on the Prime Minister.
    • Felix (A): “It was a tiny, tiny vote. … This incredibly rabidly pro Brexit constituency, which is tiny, gets to choose the prime minister and … determine the entire approach.” [26:06]
  • Humorous respite: Toby the dog, present in the studio, is nominated as a superior choice for Prime Minister.
    • Felix (A): “The best prime minister that I can think of right now would be Toby. The dog who’s in the studio with us. Yes. Toby, you would make a great … much better prime minister than Boris Johnson. Better hair, well done.” [28:16]

3. Safety Deposit Boxes: Not as Safe as You Think

[28:56 – 35:36]

• Common Misconceptions
  • Felix (A): “If you want to keep your money safe, you go to a bank … and your money is completely safe. … And then they have these huge, massive safes … But it turns out that banks … [mess] this up all the time. … You basically have no recourse.” [29:04]
• Not Insured, Not Secure
  • Anna (B): “It will tell you … the contents are not covered in the same way that your cash in the bank is covered. It's not FDIC insured.” [30:19]
  • Even valuable items aren’t automatically insured; you need to purchase insurance yourself.
• Tales of Massive Losses and Bank Negligence
  • Example: Multiple tales where bank mix-ups (especially during mergers) have resulted in lost valuables, e.g., “they drilled the wrong box number 105.” [31:29]
  • Wells Fargo named as repeat offender.
    • Emily (C): “We should also add that the bank that screwed this up and emptied the wrong box is of course, of course Wells Fargo.” [32:24]
• Contracts & Accountability
  • Banks’ contracts often limit liability to tiny sums (e.g., two years’ rent, $10), even for huge losses.
    • Anna (B): “The banks would say, well, but you signed a contract that said we only owe you something, like $10…” [33:05]
  • Sometimes customers are locked into new contracts they never signed.
• If Not Deposit Boxes, Then What?
  • Anna (B): “There are private vault companies that…do offer more protections.” [33:55]
• Cultural & Theatrical Nostalgia
  • The panel reminisces about the cinematic role of safety deposit boxes, but agree the risk now outweighs the drama.

4. Numbers Round & Noteworthy Moments

[35:38 – 40:23]

• Anna’s Number: 4.57 million — the sum a crypto entrepreneur paid for lunch with Warren Buffett, only to cancel amidst rumors of Chinese government interference. [35:38]
• Felix’s Number: $125 — compensation he expects from Equifax due to their data breach; most listeners likely eligible. [36:54]
• Emily’s Number: $185,000 — funds a former Ernst & Young partner has to pay in arbitration costs litigating her sexual harassment suit due to a forced arbitration clause. [38:08]
  • Emily (C): “Companies love to say that arbitration is cheaper than a lawsuit, but this kind of belies that argument.” [39:06]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Corporate Accountability:
  Felix (A): “If you wanted to make something illegal, you can just make it illegal.” [10:35]
• On Facebook Data:
  Felix (A): “Even if you have not signed up for an account in your life ... Facebook is still targeting ads at you.” [12:57]
• On Boris Johnson’s Ideology:
  Felix (A): “He does have a certain knack at sort of wordsmithing ... he doesn't have an ideology. ... If it wasn’t for that decision, Brexit would not have won.” [19:01]
• On Parliamentary Democracy:
  Felix (A): “The oldest democracy in the world ... the Prime Minister was elected by a vote of 160,000 Conservative Party members.” [26:06]
• On Safety Deposit Boxes:
  Anna (B): “They really just probably shouldn’t have them anymore.” [34:26]
• On Nostalgia:
  Felix (A): “If safety deposit boxes went away, imagine what it would do to movies. The harm. Exactly. To Hollywood.” [35:02]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:47 — Facebook’s $5 billion fine debated
• 05:12 — The political split in the FTC’s approach
• 10:17 — Can US antitrust law keep up, or is new legislation needed?
• 12:28 — Public trust metrics for Facebook, Google, Amazon
• 15:41 — Boris Johnson as UK Prime Minister
• 19:01 — What Boris Johnson’s leadership means for Brexit
• 22:58 — Brexit’s chilling effect on the UK economy
• 26:06 — The democratic deficit in Boris Johnson’s selection
• 28:16 — “Toby for Prime Minister!”
• 29:04 — Safety deposit boxes: myth vs. reality
• 31:29 — How massive losses happen in safety deposit boxes
• 35:38 — Numbers Round: crypto lunches, Equifax payments, arbitration woes
• 38:08 — Emily’s story on forced arbitration & its real cost

Conclusion

This episode weaves together the dry world of finance, political absurdity, and banking nostalgia with sharp insights and humor. The panel is united in their skepticism toward big tech’s self-regulation, alarmed by the performative chaos of Brexit, and surprisingly passionate about the myth of the safe deposit box. Listeners come away with a more skeptical, better-informed, and happier appreciation for the value of a good studio dog—and may be double-checking their valuables at their local bank.

For more resources:

• Tony Rom’s Washington Post article on the Facebook fine
• New York Times’ story on safety deposit box failures
• Anna’s and Emily’s referenced articles (links on the show page)

Next Episode: Tune in for a promised segment on the European Central Bank and answers to listener questions.