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The government runs out of money next Tuesday. Trump’s threatened “mass firings” if it shuts down. Earlier this year, Democrats played ball. But now, one Democratic Senator explains why he’s approaching things differently.

Guest: Chris Van Hollen, Democratic Senator from Maryland.

This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock exclusive episodes of What Next —you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the What Next show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen.

Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, Ethan Oberman, and Rob Gunther.