Alexandra Steinacker-Clark: How a Personal Brand Creates Opportunities in Any Traditional Industry

Summary

Podcast Summary: Built in Public with Courtney Johnson

Guest: Alexandra Steinacker-Clark
Episode: How a Personal Brand Creates Opportunities in Any Traditional Industry
Date: June 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

Theme:
This episode delves into how building a personal brand can unlock opportunities—even in the most traditional and gatekept industries, such as the art world. Host Courtney Johnson sits down with Alexandra Steinacker-Clark, art historian, curator, podcaster, and author, to explore Alexandra’s unconventional journey of making herself visible in the conservative world of art, leveraging content, networking, and authenticity to break in and democratize industry knowledge for others.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Building a Brand in a Traditional Industry

• Industry Perception:
  Alexandra discusses the stigma of personal branding in fields like law, finance, medicine, academia, and especially the art world, which she and Courtney affectionately label “uppity.”
  • “I would argue that you are in the most... I don't even know the word. Uppity industry.” (03:26, Courtney)
• Early Steps:
  Alexandra started with a traditional academic route (studied art history, completed a master’s in cultural policy) but transitioned quickly to working part-time jobs to support herself in London, eventually landing at Sotheby’s.
• The Power of Networking:
  She landed opportunities by reaching out via email for a simple coffee, leveraging commonalities (nationality, background) to build rapport and unlock introductions inside prestigious organizations.
  • “[Cheat code] Go find the company you want to work for and find a person that... has something similar to you. It may be like five people. You might have to reach out to five or 10 before one says yes.” (05:24, Courtney)

2. The Value of Taking “Cheat Code” Jobs

• Big Name, Entry Position:
  Alexandra advocates for taking any job—even entry-level positions—at well-known institutions as a way to get a foot in the door, emphasizing transferable skills (customer service, diplomacy, handling pressure).
  • “You worked for Apple. Yeah... When I'm looking at CVs now, if I see someone...let's say they were a bartender... I think that I would like your work.” (07:57, Alexandra)
• Work Ethic:
  Her story of juggling studies, part-time jobs, and internships showcases the value of grit and work ethic.

3. From Industry Insider to Content Creator

• Launching a Podcast as a Brand Platform:
  The All About Art podcast began as a way to answer her own curiosity about what non-artist roles in the art world entail.

  • “I know that your question was about personal brand, and basically I'm telling this story because this is what was teaching me about the sector.” (08:35, Alexandra)
  • “My brand solidified as the person who investigates what it means to work in the arts, but not as an artist—as everyone else in the industry.” (11:18, Alexandra)

• “Oprah Effect”:
  Alexandra strategically shone a spotlight on other people's expertise, which built her own credibility by association—what Courtney calls the “Oprah effect.”

  • “Oprah didn’t get to be Oprah by talking about herself. Oprah got to be Oprah by shining the spotlight on other people’s interesting stories.” (11:45, Courtney)

4. Content Curation and Iterative Advice

• Curating Experts:
  Alexandra’s book, Working in Art, features interviews from both iconic leaders and emerging voices, offering accessible, actionable advice—demonstrating how curation can be as valuable as original content creation.
  • “It’s important to talk to someone who’s incredibly aspirational, but also to the people who are on the ground doing it now and who understand the struggles of now.” (14:21, Alexandra)
• Iterative Advice:
  The book covers many career paths (museums, auction houses, advising, content creation, etc.), encouraging readers to seek advice from both icons and those one or two steps ahead.
  • “You can't just go and look at Steve Jobs and what he did for all advice... you also got to find someone that's one step, two steps above me.” (14:45, Courtney)

5. Getting the Book Deal

• Proactive Outreach:
  Alexandra sent at least 20 cold messages/proposals to agencies and publishers, attended book fairs, and leveraged LinkedIn, ultimately connecting with an editor at Hachette.

  • “On LinkedIn... I ended up finding the managing editor of the publishing house that ended up taking my book on. And I messaged her...” (16:58, Alexandra)

• Tailoring the Pitch:
  She tailored each approach to align with each publisher’s focus, learning to seek organizational fit.

• The Power of Weak Ties and Feedback:
  Some “no’s” led to referrals or valuable feedback, not just rejection.

  • “Some people just never responded, some people were like, ‘This is really interesting, but it’s just not for us’... still a validation.” (21:49, Alexandra)

• Learning How to Pitch:
  Alexandra utilized DIY resources (“literally, like, how to write a book proposal in Google.”), mentorship from podcast guests, and community input to refine her proposal.

  • “YouTube. Love it. Literally, like, how to write a book proposal in Google. Watched a video, took notes.” (22:56, Alexandra)

6. The LinkedIn Advantage

• Why LinkedIn Works:
  Alexandra grew an audience of 26k+, even with minimal strategic optimization, just by consistently sharing content relevant to art careers—a perfect fit for the platform’s professional slant.
  • “On LinkedIn, less than 2% of people will post regularly... you’re in the top 1% of all of LinkedIn, without even having to make your post so perfect or strategic...” (28:58, Courtney)
• Consistency > Perfection:
  She emphasized the importance of just showing up, repurposing content, and not waiting for perfection.
  • “Done is better than perfect. Done is always better than perfect. Just get things out.” (30:38, Alexandra)

7. Sustainable Content Creation

• Choose Your Pace:
  Alexandra urges sustainable practices: produce what you can, for as long as you can, rather than burning out trying to emulate high-output influencers.

  • “If you pressure yourself to post every single day... you are going to be burning out within a month... do what you can, imperfectly, and do it for a long time.” (31:19, Alexandra)

• Iterative Growth:
  She adjusted her podcast output based on her current work/life balance, not on arbitrary external standards.

• Authenticity and Values:
  Focus on what matters most to you in content, whether it’s in-person connection, audio quality, or creativity, and tailor your process accordingly.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Transferable Skills:
  “When I see that someone has something like let's say they were a bartender, they worked at a pub, they worked at a restaurant, I'm like, I think that I would like your work.”
  — Alexandra Steinacker-Clark (07:57)

• On Industry Gatekeeping:
  “The art world is a really closed off, up industry. And so I had to learn the ropes first before I felt comfortable going off on my own and doing my own thing.”
  — Alexandra (10:35)

• On the “Oprah Effect”:
  “You didn’t start off with, here’s all of the information I know, I am this expert. You started off by shining a spotlight on other people and their stories, which I call the Oprah effect.”
  — Courtney (11:35)

• On Getting Unstuck:
  “Done is better than perfect. Done is always better than perfect. Just get things out.”
  — Alexandra (30:38)

• On Sustainable Growth:
  “If you pressure yourself to post every single day, twice a day, because you heard that this really successful influencer... does it twice a day... that is actually not going to allow you to do it sustainably, you are going to be burning out within a month...”
  — Alexandra (31:19)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:50] – Alexandra’s early career path and networking into Sotheby’s
• [06:41] – First-hand account of being in the room for the Banksy “Shredding” auction moment
• [08:35] – How varied work experience built her understanding of the art world
• [11:18] – Alexandra describes how her podcast and personal brand formed
• [11:45] – Courtney explains the “Oprah Effect”
• [14:21] – Balancing aspirational and accessible interviewees in Alexandra’s book and podcast
• [16:58] – The book deal process and the power of cold outreach on LinkedIn
• [22:56] – How she learned to write a book proposal (YouTube, mentorship)
• [26:02] – Why and how she started posting on LinkedIn
• [28:58] – Courtney on the value of consistency on LinkedIn
• [30:38] – Alexandra on the importance of “done is better than perfect”
• [31:19] – Advice on sustainable content creation and posting cadence
• [34:19] – How authenticity and personal values shape content

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Where to Find Alexandra

• Book:
  Working in Art (How to build a career in the Art World)—Available in UK (since April) and releasing in the US July 14, 2026

• Podcast:
  All About Art Podcast—Spotify, Apple, and all major platforms

• Online:
  Instagram: @alexandrasteinacker
  LinkedIn: Alexandra Steinacker-Clark

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Closing Reflections

This episode offers a roadmap for breaking the rules in conservative industries, showing how personal brands and content creation can democratize access and create new career pathways—even in closed-off sectors. Stand-out lessons include networking with intent, using “entry” jobs strategically, curating and borrowing credibility, and choosing sustainability over hustle.

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Perfect for anyone who wonders if their field is “too serious” for visibility—or who feels like an outsider trying to break in.

Transcript

[Courtney Johnson]

You have a pretty substantial following on LinkedIn. I have some artists, people that work in the art world that are like, LinkedIn isn't really for me, I'm a little hesitant. But you are proof that it can work.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

When I see that someone has something like let's say they were a bartender, they worked at a pub, they worked at a restaurant, I'm like, I think that I would like your work.

[Courtney Johnson]

If you're like, oh, if you've been a waitress, you're hardcore. Like, the hardest job I've ever had in my life was being a waitress. I'm an entrepreneur now. Much easier waitress. Horrible. So this is another great cheat code. Maybe you're taking kind of a sh tty job at a big name just to have that big name attached. Like, maybe you're even, I don't know, working at the Apple store as like a checkout person. But hey, you worked for Apple. On LinkedIn, less than 2% of people will post regularly, meaning one time per week. So the fact that you've posted at least one time per week for the past few years, you're in the top 1% of all of LinkedIn, which without even having to make your post so perfect or strategic or putting any strategy behind it at all.

[Podcast Narrator]

Welcome to Built in Public.

[Courtney Johnson]

I am your host, Courtney Johnson.

[Podcast Narrator]

I've been a full time content creator and a personal brand strategist for seven years and I really built my career

[Courtney Johnson]

sharing the process, not just the outcomes of personal brand. Built in Public is about what it

[Podcast Narrator]

actually looks like to build a brand, a business, and to build real leverage

[Courtney Johnson]

in the creator economy.

[Podcast Narrator]

We're talking strategy, systems, audience growth, monetization, and that uncomfortable middle ground between I have an idea and this is actually working. I'll be sharing what I'm testing, what's

[Courtney Johnson]

working, what's not, and I'm going to

[Podcast Narrator]

be bringing on people who are building their careers and companies out loud too. If you want honest conversations, practical insight and zero bs, you are in the right place. Let's build in public. Welcome back to Built in Public. Today's episode is a fun one because we're going somewhere. The show hasn't gone yet. Today I'm taking you inside one of the most famously gatekept industries on the entire planet, the art world. Alexandra is an art historian, curator, podcaster and now author. She started the All about art podcast in 2021 because even though she was working at Sotheby's and finishing her master's in Goldsmiths, she had no idea what working in the art world actually looked like. So she just started interviewing people. And her book, Working in Art, how to build a career in the Art World is being published this summer. Her personal brand is so unique. Her take on career is so unique, and there are so many applicable cheat codes that you can take into your own career. So here's what makes this conversation different. Alexandra didn't build her career by the traditional art world rules, which if, you

[Courtney Johnson]

know, kind of stuffy, kind of old

[Podcast Narrator]

school, but she did the opposite. She became visible, she built her personal brand, and she un gate kept the industry from the inside, treating her career the way a creator does. If you've ever thought your industry is too serious or polish or conservative for a personal brand, this episode is for you. Let's get into it.

[Courtney Johnson]

Welcome, Alexandra. Thank you.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Thank you for having me.

[Courtney Johnson]

I'm really excited you're here because with my audience, there is a fear, limiting belief that comes up a lot. And I think you're the perfect person to solve this problem. And that fear is, look, Courtney, I want to build my personal brand, but I am in a really traditional or conservative industry. Maybe it's law or finance or medicine or academia or art. And it's kind of looked down upon. It's kind of low brow to be building my personal brand. I would argue that you are in the most. I don't even know the word. Uppity industry.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

That's a fine word. Yeah, yeah, that's a fine word for it.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

And you've built a personal brand and as a young person, like, you didn't wait until you were had 40 years of experience and every single accolade you could possibly get. You started really young. So I want to understand first your process of building your personal brand in. In the art world.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, I think it started. It's such a good question because it actually makes you really self reflect on. On your journey. Right. And I think I started off in a more traditional route. And so I studied art history. So I have a degree in art history. I also have a master's degree in cultural policy. So I do have that academic background. And while I was doing my degrees, I started working part time. I started working because I had to, because I had to afford my place here in London, which is extortionate. It's more extortionate now. Back then I was still able to find something moderately affordable, but I had to get a job. And so I looked around, I started working as a barista, but then I actually got a job at Sotheby's auction house, which is one of the biggest auction houses in the world.

[Courtney Johnson]

And how did you land that job?

[Alexandra Steinacker]

I went for a coffee with someone who worked there because I'm. I'm American. Austrian. And I found another Austrian in the company. I emailed them and I said, I'm Austrian. I just moved to London. Can I please have a coffee with you? And I didn't ask her for anything other than advice. I just wanted advice from her. And I told her a little bit about me. I told her a little bit about what I wanted to do, what my goals were. She gave me advice. One of her pieces of advice was, well, you speak fluent English and fluent German, but that's not enough. You're gonna need to learn another language. Like, everyone speaks three languages. So just.

[Courtney Johnson]

And I was like, great advice. What language did you learn?

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Well, I also speak a bit of French now, and I also learned some Russian. Oh, cool. So, yeah, I. But the Russians, not. I can read Cyrillic and I can speak, you know, a little bit, but that's pretty much it. But I can speak English, German, and French.

[Courtney Johnson]

Ok, okay, so quick pause. So this is a great cheat code for audience to take away. Maybe find somebody at the company you want to work with that has a similar background. Hey, we're from the same country. We're from the same state. We went to the same university. It could even be like, we're a fan of the same sports team. Yeah. So you found something that was similar about this person, and this person probably saw you as a younger version of themselves. They would want to mentor you. So cheat code, solidify it in your brains. Y' all go find the company you want to work for and find a person that. That has something similar to you. And it. It may be like five people. You might have to reach out to five or 10 before one says yes. But I love that you did that. That's super cool. Yeah.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

And she gave me really good advice. But what she also did is she said, okay, I like you, and I'm going to recommend that you go speak to my colleague who is the head of client services. Now, client services at the auction house, it's not a specialist department for anyone who is not really familiar with the arts and with auction houses. Specialist departments deal with their area of art. And so a lot of people want to work in the contemporary art department because that' the glitz and the glamour is. And that's what you see on the news. That's where you see, you know, the Banksy selling for a million and then shredding through a frame. I don't know if you've heard of that story, but I was actually in the room for that.

[Podcast Narrator]

Really?

[Courtney Johnson]

Oh, my gosh. How was that?

[Alexandra Steinacker]

It was amazing. Well, I didn't know what was happening. All of a sudden an alarm started going off and everyone rushed to the painting. And then I was just like, everyone back. Like, this is a fire hazard. Like, we just didn't know what was going on. It was very unexpected. So actually it was a lot more hectic. And then you see it and you're like, oh, my God. What just happened? Was this planned? Is this a stunt? You know, what sort of thing is this? So it was. It was a really interesting experience, but I. I ended up getting an interview with the head of client services. And that just meant that I was on the reception and during sales, I was in the room, you know, checking tickets, showing people to their seat, which is how I was in the room for the Banksy shredding. But it was my foot in the door. That was really my foot in the door. Because then I ended up from there meeting people who worked at galleries. So I got an internship. I had it on my cv. So when I went to go apply for other internships, they saw a really big name. They saw that I already had been gaining experience at a really big auction house, so I was a more attractive candidate for people.

[Courtney Johnson]

So this is another great cheat code. Maybe you're taking kind of a shit job at a Big Name just to have that big name attached to.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

Like, maybe you're even, I don't know, working at the Apple Store as like a checkout person. But, hey, you worked for Apple.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

You worked for Apple. Yeah. And I think, like, it also, when I'm looking at CVS now, if I see someone, I actually hired someone who worked at the Apple Store.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yes.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Because I knew that they were versing customer service. I knew that they knew what it means to actually work and to have to clock in and clock out at a certain time. That's not a given these days when you're hiring young talent. And so when I see that someone has something like, let's say they were a bartender, they worked at a pub, they worked at a restaurant. I'm like, I think that I would like your work.

[Courtney Johnson]

Work. If you're like a. If you've been a waitress, you're hardcore. Like, the hardest job I've ever had in my life was being a waitress. I'm an entrepreneur now. Much easier waitress. Horrible.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, it's not very fun. It's not very fun. And you really have to know how to work when you do these things. And you have to know how to deal with tricky situations, tricky customers, all of that. And you have to learn how to be diplomatic. I mean, I think that it's those sort of things people forget. Like looking at these transferable skills is really valuable. But when I had that on my cv, it was really positive. I then also really grafted, right? I was going to university and then I was working at the auction house. And I was doing that part time. No one else was really working part time like I was. And so I was juggling a full time uni career and working. And then in my first year, after my first year at uni, during the summer, I did two internships. The way that I did that was as I was doing my final exams. I had just started my first internship, so I had to take a day off of my internship to go sit my final exams. And then I had a weekend in between internships. I flew to Austria because that's where my second internship was. And then I started working on that Monday. So I really went into it from uni and then went into it like one after the other, boom, boom, boom. I didn't have a summer, but when I was entering into my second year, I had worked at a world class gallery, a smaller gallery, and an auction house all after my first year at university. And so I started to really build my expertise in the field. And I know that your question was about personal brand, and basically I'm telling this story because this is what was teaching me about the sector, because I had had no exposure to the sector prior and world is a really closed off up industry. And so I had to learn the ropes first before I felt comfortable going off on my own and doing my own thing. And the way that I learned the ropes was through gaining these experiences. But only then was I able to discern what my question was. And that question is, what helped me build that brand? Because my mission became to answer that question and what ended up solidifying out of, you know, doing the projects that I do. I'm kind of skipping a few steps here in my career story, but I ended up starting a podcast. Through the podcast, I ended up meeting people. The questions that I was asking on the podcast became what the brand was because I naturally gravitated towards asking people, well, but what is it that you do every day? What does it mean to be a curator though? Because people think it means hanging art on walls and giving nice tours. And what is it? Oh, there's shipping involved. You feel like a switchboard between you and 10 other teams in your industry. Oh. You have to deal with artists and their moods.

[Courtney Johnson]

Oh.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Like, you learn so much about what people do. And that's how my brand solidified as the person who investigates what it means to work in the arts, but not as an artist as everyone else in the industry. There's nothing else out there that really explores that.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah, it's really cool because you didn't

[Courtney Johnson]

start off with, here's all of the information. I know I am this expert. You started off by shining a spotlight on other people and their stories, which I call the Oprah effect.

[Podcast Narrator]

Right.

[Courtney Johnson]

Oprah didn't get to be Oprah by talking about herself. Oprah got to be Oprah by shining the spotlight on other people's interesting stories. And through the questions that she asked, through the framing and positioning, that's what built her personal brand. And you're kind of doing the Oprah approach. And so for anybody listening to this, that's like, maybe you don't want to make it all about you, or maybe you don't have that 20 years of experience. Not that you need that to start a personal brand, but you might feel like you need to. You can shine the spotlight on other people, interview other people, and that could be a podcast, that could also be a substack, that could be a one minute TikTok series that you do every single week. But that was a really interesting choice for your personal brand because you're also borrowing the brand affinity of all of these notable people in the industry that are now associated with you and developing relationships. Relationships with all of them.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, absolutely. I think that that was really how it started to take off because I started off by interviewing my peers just to talk about what they're doing and to give them a little bit of a spotlight and to work together on projects. I. E. Work together on episodes. And then after, like, within the first year, for the anniversary episode, I sat down with a museum director and I was like, man, how did I get to this point? And I was asking her about what she believed, you know, what her career was like, and how she progressed to being a muse director and what she believed someone now would need to do in order to, you know, embark on a leadership, like getting a leadership position or leading an institution one day. And so I found it incredibly interesting and such a privilege to be able to speak to someone who is at the top of their industry and leading a world Class museum. I was like, how have I gotten here? And it just kind of went from there. It really just snowballed from there. And now what I try to do is, of course, I tried to get people on the podcast who are really well known or like, also in the book, people that others really want to hear from. For example, in the book, I interviewed a gallerist. His name is Tadeus Ro Pak. And for anyone who's in the arts who's listening to this, they will know who he is and what his gallery is. But for anyone outside of the art world, perhaps because the arts is still quite niche, perhaps not. But for context, he has been running a gallery for around 40 years, and he is one of the most successful gallerists of our time. And he has an epic program. He represents amazing artists, and he's just someone to really look up to. And I have him in my book. But at the same time, in the chapter on working in a gallery or building a career in a gallery, I also interview someone who's had her gallery for four years or five years because I think that it's important to talk to someone who's incredibly aspirational, but also to the people who are on the ground doing it now and who understand the struggles of now.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

I had a mentor one time tell me to take advice iteratively, meaning I can't just go and look at Steve Job and what he did for all advice.

[Podcast Narrator]

Right.

[Courtney Johnson]

I also got to find someone that's one step, two steps above me. And so that's kind of what you've done with this book and with your podcast, too. It's people who have been in the game for a long time and people who are at an accessible point where you're like, I can take this next step. And I think the book is really interesting, too, because it's not all created content. It's a lot of curated content. It's a lot of interviews that you did with other people and other people's perspective. And again, I think that really can show our audience that you don't have to come up with all of it yourself. You didn't come up with all of the. Every single one of the career lessons. You were curating that from other people. When did you make that decision?

[Alexandra Steinacker]

I think for me, it was always quite clear that I would do it that way, because I know what I don't know. Yeah. And I have been trying so hard over the last five years of running the All About Our podcast that I've been trying to find These answers to, okay, but what is it that you actually do? And so putting this book together, I knew I wanted to ask the questions, I wanted to ask, hopefully the right questions. I wanted to pull out the lessons and I wanted to do the storytelling. But I needed the people who were actually on the ground doing the work to give me those lessons and to teach me what they know. Because there's no way that I would have been able to look at all of these different areas in the arts. Because for context, my book, each chapter is a different art career. So we have working in museums, working in auction houses, working as a curator, working in galleries, which are kind of the four most well known areas that you can work in when you study art history or when you want to enter into the arts professionally. However, there are a total of 14 chapters. So what are the other careers? Working as an art lawyer, working as an art writer, working as an art advisor, working as a studio manager. What does that mean? As an art handler, working in art. Content creation is even one of the chapters that I brought in. So I am trying to show people that there is a plethora of opportunity within the arts and cultural sector if you know where to look. But no one talks about that enough and you don't know who to ask. And so I thought, well, who better to ask than the people actually doing it?

[Courtney Johnson]

And you're published. Like you're a book deal, official published. How did you get the book deal?

[Alexandra Steinacker]

I actually put together a proposal. So I, I think a lot of people were approached for their deals, like people who I've talked to, people with larger audiences. I really grafted for mine. I put together a book proposal and I sent it out to a bunch of different, both agencies. Because for the big publishing houses, you can't submit unsolicited proposals. You need to actually have an agent submit it for you. So I sent the proposal out to agencies hoping to gain representation, but then I also sent it out smaller publishing houses or publishing houses that take those submissions. And I also was a bit cheeky. And I know that you often talk about LinkedIn, so this is a really good story for that. But I, for some reason have quite a large audience on LinkedIn. And I think it's because the work that I do references careers and careers in the art world, so it fits that platform really, really well. And on LinkedIn, I ended up finding the, like, managing editor of the publishing house that ended up taking my book on. And I messaged her and I was like, he, I know you don't take unsolicited submissions. But this is me. This is my book. Like, literally, it had to be within a sentence because it was one of those message requests where you could include a note. So it has a limit, a character limit. And so I tried to distill it as best I could. Like, can I please send you my. My proposal? Like, this is who I am. And she didn't get back to me, and I had kind of forgotten that I had sent that message. And then, like, five months later, she was like, oh, my God, I'm so bad at my LinkedIn messages. But, yeah, send it over. Here's my email address. And at that point, I had been in a couple of conversations about book deals. I had a little bit of interest here and there. Still didn't have an agent. And mind you, this person is part of a publishing house that is a subsidiary of one of the big five. So, like, there's Hachette, there's Penguin, there's Thames and Hudson. There's, like, these big publishing houses, and Hachette is mine. And so, yeah, they really don't take unsolicited submissions, but they took mine. And so I sent it via email. And they were like, this is really up our alley. This is really what we're looking for. And then they sent me a deal form. And from that point, I then had to get an agent because I don't know how to read a book deal form. Like, yeah, it's not like a normal contract. I thought I could handle it on my own. I don't know what I'm looking at here. But one. One thing I will say on that is what I learned from that process is when you're approaching publishers, and I guess this is the lesson with anything. If you're an artist approaching a gallery, if you are a curator wanting to work with an institution, if you're someone who's not at all in the arts and you want to work in a certain industry at a certain company, you need to make sure that that aligns with the work that you actually want to do. Because I approached. I think I approached, like, an academic publisher. And they were really lovely, but they were like, hey, this is not really what. What we publish. Like, it's really interesting, but, like, you might be better off with these publishing houses because that's what they like to publish. That's what they know. And so learning from that experience to be like, oh, right, okay, so it's not just because it's a nice publishing house, obviously, and because they do art Books that they're going to do. My art book, very specifically looking at how to's and careers and supporting podcasts. That's what my publisher has done in the past, and that's why I was such a perfect fit for this one. So it's sort of finding your. The right place for you and your work that really reflected how eager they were to then work with me.

[Courtney Johnson]

And how many LinkedIn messages or cold outreaches do you think you sent to get that one? Yes.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

At least 20. Yeah, at least 20 to different agencies and publishing houses. And I also went to, like, book fairs and tried to introduce myself and ask if they take submissions. I tried to ask if they would be interested, but some of it wasn't the right fit for me either because some of the smaller ones, you, you as a, as an author need to contribute to, like, the production costs. And that I didn't want to do. I was like, I can't afford to do that. I don't want to do that. I. That I need to be traditionally published because I need the publishing house to take care of that and the distribution and all of that. I don't want to have to graft to do that as well, because you have to graph to do your own marketing when you publish a book. It's just the way that it is. So, yeah, I really wanted to be traditionally published, and so that's why I said no to some of the other ones and went with. Went with Hachette.

[Courtney Johnson]

That's really cool. Okay, interesting. So about 20 submissions or cold outreaches or introductions. And even though a lot of them said no, what I'm hearing is some of them maybe gave you a piece of advice or pointed you in the right direction. Almost like the next clue into getting to that goal.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And people were. Some people just never responded. Some people were like, oh, this is really interesting, but it's just not for us. Which felt good in a way, because even though they said it's not for us, they still said like, oh, but we think this is a good idea and maybe try this publishing house. Or it was still a validation of like a response of them saying, it's good. They don't have to tell me that. You know what I mean? They could just not respond or say, no, this isn't for us. So that was really nice too. It. It goes a long way to receive that sort of feedback.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

And it's important to realize, like, it.

[Podcast Narrator]

You're right.

[Courtney Johnson]

Everybody has different things that they're looking for. My publisher Does a lot of influencer cookbooks. And it just happened to be a year that they were doing. They were looking for an influencer career book and other influencer career books. There are some publishers that, you know, work on certain topics, and maybe the next year, they just don't have a beat to cover for that topic. And it might work a year from now or something, but I think that's really, really cool. And how did you know how to make a proposal?

[Alexandra Steinacker]

I YouTube. YouTube, love it. Literally, like, how to write a book proposal in Google. Watched a video, took notes. I found this website. I can find it. I don't know the name of the website now, but it's something. It's something along like the lines of, you know, how to put together your proposal, how to publish a book. And I took those steps. And then very importantly, this is kind of how connections in the podcast all comes full circle. I had interviewed an author on my podcast. His name is Mark Crystal. And he wrote this book on this artist named Pauline Boddy. And Mark came on the pod. I loved interviewing him. I asked him about the process of the book. This was before I even intended on writing my own book. Mark and I stayed in touch. We enjoyed each other's company. And I ended up messaging him and saying, hey, Mark, I have this idea, and do you think this would be good? And I gave him two ideas. One was a fiction novel, and one was working in art. And back then I called it all about art careers because my podcast is all about art. And he said that the fiction novel I can work on in the background if I want to, but I should pub. I should really try and put together a proposal for the nonfiction. And so I googled and I did all that. And I put together the proposal and. And I sent it to him and I said, can you please? I mean, he did offer his help as well, but it was basically the sentiment of, I will help you put together the best proposal possible and then give you advice and we can send it off. And so he was really, really helpful and instrumental in putting together a proposal that was really high quality. He told me what to take out, what to keep in. He kind of told me to rephrase certain things, do certain things differently. And that is what made it as high quality as it was, I think. And because of his advice and his mentorship, that's what I think really helped bring it to the next level. So I will be forever grateful for him. He's also in the acknowledgments of my book because having someone who looks at younger talent and thinks, okay, this person has potential, I'm going to help guide them. You know, of no, of no cost to me. It was only of cost to his own time and energy to help guide me through that process. And so, yeah, that was really instrumental too.

[Courtney Johnson]

So cool.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah. I mean, I think this goes back

[Courtney Johnson]

to building a personal brand. One of the best benefits is the way your network expands. Yeah. Because you gave him a platform and he was able to share a little bit of his story or get content from that. Whatever his goal of being on the podcast was. Oh, my God. Like, I cannot emphasize enough creating content. The relationships that will come out of it are incredible. So I want to talk about LinkedIn. You have a pretty substantial following on LinkedIn. You post on LinkedIn. What made you start posting on LinkedIn? Because I have some artists, people that work in the art world that are like, LinkedIn isn't really for me. I'm a little hesitant. But you are proof that it's. It can work.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

I know. I. I honestly have no idea why I started posting on LinkedIn. I remember in one of those first internships I did during, like right after my first year, I was speaking to someone who worked at the gallery and she said, and mind you, this is in Austria and there are two different platforms. There's LinkedIn and there's Zing. And I think I have a really old Zing profile. I think I need to go on and actually delete that because that's. But that was just more popular in the German speaking realm. And she told me, like, have those two profiles, but LinkedIn is really good. And so that's when I started LinkedIn and two years later is when I started the podcast. And so when I started the podcast, I just started to post on my platforms. This was when Tick tock wasn't really a thing yet. And so I was posting on Instagram and then I just started posting on LinkedIn as well and kind of copying what I was doing on Instagram and putting that out there. And then I was really active on Clubhouse.

[Courtney Johnson]

This was during, like Throwback. I miss Clubhouse.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

The depths of COVID Like, if I hear that, the sound of like, like I get. I actually get like heart palpitations and. Yeah, rough times, rough times. But I started posting on LinkedIn and then I just. This, I think this is where it's a very odd thing. Right place, right time. But truly it was the right platform for my content because I was posting about careers. And so it was really directly related to what that whole entire platform was built on. Whereas I think Instagra, yeah, it's really great. And I definitely see more returns from Instagram in terms of my network and connections, but in terms of like the following and my reach and my engagement, LinkedIn has been amazing. And then I just, I think the switch really Happened is when LinkedIn brought out that I guess, program at the time, but now it's basically, you can choose if your account is a normal account or if it's an account that can have a following. And I did the switch right away. I took that opportunity and I was like, yeah, I want to do this. Like, this is how I want to be presenting myself on LinkedIn. And that's when I started to gain a following because they brought in that feature and I utilized that feature and then we continued from there. And so that's, that's how that happened. I just kept posting and it just kept growing. I've been stagnating a little bit around like 26, 27k, but I have to actually be very upfront and say I'm not very good with a LinkedIn strategy. It's just been that my content has fit the platform so well. I think if I now, now maybe this is my prompt, maybe I need to hold myself accountable here, that I need to develop a more strategic approach and a more thought through strategy for how I actually want to be presenting myself on the platform.

[Podcast Narrator]

Yeah, LinkedIn is a platform where you

[Courtney Johnson]

don't have to be amazing at content. Like you're saying, you're just kind of like repurposing the post or, oh, we have a new podcast episode out. It's just doing it because on LinkedIn, less than 2% of people will post regularly, meaning one time per week. So the fact that you've posted at least one time per week for the past few years, you're in the top 1% of all of LinkedIn without even having to make your post so perfect or strategic or putting any strategy behind it at all.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, yeah. Oops. But I, but I think if I did, then it would, it would definitely grow. But sometimes I just, you know, I'm focusing on Instagram and then I also have to focus on everything else that I do. Like, I am not a full time content creator. I, it's basically kind of a side effect of what I do. I, what I post on social media is a reflection of the work that I do outside of social media.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's also, you don't have to like, you don't have to be on every platform. You don't have to be optimizing every platform. I think that's actually a bad idea unless you have a team that's doing it for you. Like, like, you know, your main platform, you know what you're focused on and yes, repurpose to other platforms. But you don't, you don't have to do that.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, I think I'm really bad at TikTok. Like, I, I, I just like put the, some of the videos up that I put on Instagram and if I remember, I put them on TikTok. But other than that, I'm basically a ghost on there.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's just a testament to it. It can be done imperfectly. Like, you don't need to invest, I don't know, tens of thousands of dollars a month and have like a team and have it be perfect and have, like to post five times a day. Like you can actually create some sort of platform where you post at the level that's comfortable to you and you're still going to be doing it more than other people and you're still going to get ahead of everyone else.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah. One of my biggest things that I always tell people is done is better than perfect. Done is always better than perfect. Just get things out. It's okay if you have an idea, if you want to approach it, the only way that you're going to make it, quote unquote, perfect, which it never really will be, but the only way you're going to get closer is if you actually do it and you learn in real time because everything is fine in theory. You can think something's going to work really well and then it doesn't, and it's because you haven't actually implemented it or tried it out. So doing it first is sometimes I think the best way to actually learn and grow.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, I love that. I think that's amazing. Okay. What advice would you give to others wanting to start their personal brand?

[Alexandra Steinacker]

I think that, and you and I touched on this a little bit, is being sustainable about it. Because if you are going to want to be posting even if it's, you know, once a week, that's still how you can get, like garner that growth. But if you pressure yourself to post every single day, twice a day, because you heard that this really successful influencer with a million followers does it twice a day, and so you need to emulate that, that that is actually not going to allow you to do it sustainably, you are going to be Burning out within a month, because you haven't actually worked your way there. And I think it also ties into what you were saying about kind of getting advice iteratively thinking about growing in iterations. Because you can't jump from 0 followers to 300,000, you won't know how to deal with that audience. So why would you treat your own content production that way? I think it's important to do what you can do imperfectly at various times, however you can, and do it for a long time. Because I would rather see someone stick with something for five years, like I did with the podcast. But when I was working full time, I could only produce one episode a month. And then when I went freelance because I got the book deal, I started producing it once a week. And I was like. Like, I can't sustain this. This is actually miserable. I don't even have the ideas. I don't have enough creative. Like, I don't have enough time to be creative. I'm just churning out episodes. And then I was like, okay, the sweet spot as a freelancer is twice a month.

[Courtney Johnson]

Love it.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

So that's when I produce the episodes. But I think people pressure themselves. Like, I need video, and I need to do it once a week. And it needs to be. Like, I need to have, like, an

[Courtney Johnson]

hour and a half and an hour

[Alexandra Steinacker]

and a half, and it needs to be.

[Courtney Johnson]

Oh, my gosh. Have to be in person. Like, you don't. You actually don't have to do any of that.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

You don't have to do any of that. Like, if you just do things over zoom and you put out an episode once a month, that's fine. You don't need the expensive mics. I mean, gosh, I got my first mic on Amazon for 20 bucks. Mind you, it was. That wasn't a very good mic. But the good mics that I have that I still have today, I got for about 80 bucks on Amazon, and I schlepped them around to people's apartments and was like, can I interview you? Yeah. Cool. Okay, let's sit down. And I am a purist when it comes to doing it in person. I love doing an episode in person because I feel like you have a really good connection when you do it in person, but you don't need it. You really don't. So doing it sustainably and doing it at a pace that will allow you to do it for a long time, that would be my piece of advice for anyone who's building a brand.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. And understand what you value. So what you're saying is like you really value in person, but the microphone doesn't have to be be $3,000. Yeah. Personally I really. Or for somebody else, it might be they really value the audio quality. They don't really value being in person. For me, I really value the creativity of the episodes. But they could be in person, they could be remote. So I love that. I think that's super, super important.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, everyone has their own sort of, I guess and that. But that's what makes podcasts different from one another, you know, that's what makes everyone else's project very different. And you'll find your audience that way when you're staying authentic to what, what you need to be doing and what you want to put out there.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. That's so beautiful. Well, I feel like we got so many good cheat codes for our audience about personal brand building, publishing, a book career. So where can my audience find you? Read your book, listen to your podcast.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Yeah, I mean my book is out in the UK and it's already been out since April 9th and so that can be found in bookstores and online. But it's also coming out in the US on July 14th. Yay. Exciting. So international girly. And I am mostly active on Instagram and LinkedIn, so you can find me at Alexandra Steinacker or the All About Art podcast as well on Spotify, Apple or wherever else you get your podcasts. Which is the classic line.

[Courtney Johnson]

Exactly. Well, thank you so much for coming on. This is so great.

[Alexandra Steinacker]

Thank you for having me.

[Courtney Johnson]

I do have an ask for you guys before we go. If this podcast has benefited you in any way, if you have gotten a tip that you've really loved and you've implemented it, if it's given you some sort of inspiration, if it's given you some sort of motivation or, or clarity, my ask is that you leave a five star review. I would appreciate it so much. It helps spread the message, it really helps the show grow, and it helps more people get access to this information. My deepest desire is on gatekeeping. Shit. I want to un gatekeep information. So anybody that desires to build a personal brand, to build a business, to create this success in their life and to live their dream, I want them to have all of the information and I don't hold shit back on the show. Okay, we are not holding back. So in order to get this message to more people, in order to get these resources and tips to more people, your reviews go a long way. I appreciate you so much. Thank you.