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- [00:00]
A
What's your mission?
- [00:01]
B
My mission? To enjoy life. The haters, everybody else, even your current self. Most people don't try the new business idea. Don't go. Say I love you first. Don't move to another city, mainly because of the ego risk, not because of the financial risk. If it's not catastrophic, you can always come back. You still have your health, you have your wits about you. You can come back. There's some romanticism in a very simple, quiet life. You know, playing your part, but that isn't me. Do you ever pass a homeless person on the street? They're like, yeah. I said, if it was 11 year old boy, would you have stopped? They said, yeah, that's kind of like how it is in life. Everybody's trying to help you, but once you're an adult and you're in an adult world, you're a competitor. I think I was so delusional at times that I didn't need courage because I swore I was going to be successful. Your life isn't a tool to build money. My message is all about intentional living.
- [00:52]
A
Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper. I'm your host, Queen Courtney Johnson and I am here to un gatekeep the gatekept. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy. Bill Perkins.
- [01:05]
B
Yes.
- [01:05]
A
Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper.
- [01:07]
B
Thanks for having me.
- [01:08]
A
So excited you're here. This is a podcast all about un gatekeeping the gatekeep. Because I feel like we have a lot of information that's kind of condensed at the top, condensed at just ultra successful people that doesn't always get trickled down. And it's my mission to make sure that all of this information is un gay kept so everybody has a chance at success.
- [01:32]
B
That's a good mission.
- [01:33]
A
Thank you. Thank you. So you're around a lot of millionaires, a lot of billionaires, a lot of ultra successful people. What do you feel like is the biggest cheat code that's gate kept at the top agency?
- [01:46]
B
Probably a sense of they can do it or they're willing to take the risk to do it and so they'll have an idea and they'll go execute on it. It doesn't mean the idea is definitely going to be successful, but they'll learn from that business, they'll hire the right people, they'll get people on the mission. That sense of agency to enroll people in their vision and execute on their. Enroll themselves on executing on their own vision is one of the things that I see constantly, and you've said before.
- [02:14]
A
That you can be as Successful, More successful than everyone else. If you just have speed, how do you feel? Like, speed relates to agency.
- [02:25]
B
You know, they don't sit around waiting for the universe to come save them. Right. Like, and so, you know, it's idea. Okay. They're already taking action. They're researching it. They're thinking about, who do I need to hire, who do I need to enroll to help me get this done. And so they're already moving at a pace faster than 90 something percent of other people because they lack that fear of failure. And so they're just moving. They're moving on that idea. It doesn't sit there as talk about, yeah, I had this idea two years ago. I had this idea one year ago that people, you know, if you've talked to your friends, they're like, yeah, I had this great idea. Whereas if they had a great idea and they truly thought it was great, they're executing on it.
- [03:08]
A
Yeah. Have you heard the Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson story where if he got a song idea, he had to write it down immediately or else the idea's ether, God would send it to Prince?
- [03:21]
B
No, I haven't heard that, but I. I could. I've heard the story about Prince trying to run him over. But, you know. Yes. Recently they were talking about, yeah, Prince tried to run him over after, I don't know, meeting James Brown at some event.
- [03:36]
A
Wow.
- [03:37]
B
This is, this is a funny story. This is a funny story. And I was just like, this can't be true. And they're like, no, I think Quincy Joan verified it. Like, yeah. Oh, yeah, Prince tried to run him over.
- [03:46]
A
Casual.
- [03:47]
B
Casual.
- [03:47]
A
That's not very collaborative of him.
- [03:49]
B
No, no, not very collaborative, but I get that there's people that keep notepads or diaries or, you know, just something to keep those ideas that they want to execute. They grid them out. This is the one I want to do. They've developed habits to help them with their execution, but the bottom line is that they move.
- [04:09]
A
Mm. Yeah. How many times has someone said, oh my gosh, that app was actually my idea five years ago, or I had an idea for that and that person is successful. Right. It's because they didn't actually take action on that.
- [04:22]
B
Yeah.
- [04:22]
A
With urgency.
- [04:23]
B
Yeah. And I think there's, you know, a lot of fear. You don't have to know everything. You just have to be able to enroll people to help you. You know, people that bring those people on board. Learn as much as you can to get that thing executed.
- [04:35]
A
Mm. A question I love to ask my guests is what Advice would you give. Would you give to others if you weren't afraid to hurt their feelings, but you're not afraid to hurt their feelings? So I. I want to know what the most unhinged advice you would give to our listeners who. Who are what I call toe dippers. So they're dipping their toe in their dream. They're dipping their toe in their business. They're dipping their toe in real estate. They're dipping their toe in whatever their thing might be content podcasting without going all in. So what brutal would you give to the toe dippers?
- [05:09]
B
Oh, wow. I'm trying to. Let me tone it down, because I've told friends this one off the swear words. You need some courage. You need courage. The reason why you don't give 100% of your effort is because you're afraid of failing. So if you do a mediocre job, you can always say, well, I only dipped my toe in it. So you lack courage. You're really being a p.
- [05:35]
A
You're being a pussy.
- [05:37]
B
Exactly. You're being. You're being a pussy, and you know it. And you can take the risk. You're fear. You're afraid of the judgment of yourself. You're afraid of the judgment of others. And you need courage.
- [05:48]
A
Yeah. So courage is what differentiates the people that are dipping their toes versus the people that are all in.
- [05:55]
B
Listen, when they. When they. When they go all in, you know, the reason why I know this is because I've recognized that in myself at times where, oh, if I don't really try, you know, I'm not really a failure. I didn't really fail, you know, and they don't. You don't have this fear of failure when you go all in. You're like, wow, I'm going to do my best, and this might go sideways, and I'm going to look like a clown to some people, even maybe to myself, etc. And that kind of, like, fear, that judgment and fear of failure, keeps them from just, like, really digging in and picking something and going for it. And once you lose that fear, you're like, I'm gonna go for it.
- [06:32]
A
Do you feel like you had a turning point in your life where you gained courage, or have you been delusional this whole time?
- [06:38]
B
Yeah, I've been pretty delusional. I think I was so delusional at times that I didn't need courage. Cause I swore I was gonna be successful. But there are definitely times where I was just like, okay, um, you know, there's this. It's either done or it's not. And how I feel about it doesn't really matter. Like, when I look back, I usually use a trick to look back on my life from a later stage in my life. Am I going to be happy that I went the pussy way? Or I actually, you know, just went for it. And so that usually gets me into that timeframe of like, it doesn't matter what you think or what your opinion or your friends think. It's will you be pleased with yourself in the future? It's either done or not done, attempted or not attempted. And that kind of gives me the impetus to go and do it. It's kind of like that pep talk I need or kind of that frame of reference I need to actually get me over that resistance, whatever it may be.
- [07:38]
A
So the cheat code here is to tune into your future self and almost asking them or tuning into their energy, am I proud of what I did? Did I get this done or not? And using that as a litm test to your courage.
- [07:52]
B
Yeah, I think, I think it's one cheat code, right? Like, I think minimizing future regret for is. Is a. Is a great subroutine to have. Right. And so when you're looking, when you're being honest about it, like you got weigh the variables correctly, it's like, am I going to be. Will my future self regret trying or not trying or. Or will it, you know, what. What will I regret the most? Right. Well, I look back at myself as a coward here. Should I make this attempt? What's really the worst that could happen here? And then I think your future self, because your future self is aligned with your goals and your aspirational goals can tell you, yeah, you should do this. You can have that little cheat code, that conversation with yourself to kind of get you over the hump.
- [08:39]
A
If you were starting over at say, 25 with 500 bucks in your pocket and nothing left, nothing else, what would you. What would your first move be?
- [08:49]
B
Make myself indispensable in a field at a low. Whatever position I could in a field that I wanted to be in, to start accumulating capital so that, you know, that's kind of what happened, is that I was a peon. Assistant. Assistant peon starting out. And I was a super slacker, like up until that point, super slacker. But being broke and not having that much of a social life really didn't jive with, you know what I mean? Like, didn't jive with my, you know, the life that I wanted. And I was like, okay. This is a time for me to really step it up. For me to, like, redefine what it means to be a clerk. Who cares? The best clerk in the world. But the people around you, you're kind of always on Interview. Always. You're an interview when you're hanging out with your friends and you meet somebody new, you're an interview for a date, or you're interviewed to be set up with another. Some people always looking for somebody to hire for something. They have a problem to solve, and it's always an HR problem. Right. It's like, I got this great idea. Yeah. I want to build this company. Yeah. Okay. Well, who's going to do it? You know, so you're always on Interview. And what I decided to do at that time was just really do my best to try and move up, acquire capital, make more money. Right. Like, I was. I was broke, and that is kind of what I would do. Again, it worked. You know, it allowed me to get into better networks and better pay and better opportunities, and then I can take bigger risks. And so that's kind of like the. The stairstep method to get there. Right.
- [10:31]
A
What was the first big risk that you took that really scared the shit out of you?
- [10:35]
B
I think the risks I've taken are kind of like the I love you first and relationship risks and, like, maybe getting married or getting engaged, that type of thing. I think financially, I think I tried to. I tried to. I tried and failed to develop an LNG importation and power project in El Salvador. I don't think it scared me, but it was like, this is. Oh, shit, this is pretty big. And if this goes sideways, which it did, I'm going to lose a significant amount of money. And so I did lose a significant amount of money, but that was pretty scary. But I've never been like, oh, I'm gonna die. Like, I have my health, you know?
- [11:12]
A
Yeah.
- [11:13]
B
I think the. Oh, risk, like, I went in a hot air balloon and I was scared to death because I was, like, holding on. My wrist was hurting by the time I got down. Right. It's not. It's not. You know, I have a friend, he says that, like, it's. He says it's so crazy you're willing to, like, go completely broke. But, like, anything remotely related to, like, injury in, like, heights, you know, like. Or, like, driving one of those ATVs without a roll cage, I was like, I'm not. I'm not driving over ATV without a roll cage. He's like, you're crazy. You Know, but it's like, if the risk isn't. If you're not. If it's not catastrophic, you can always come back, right? Like, if you're not going to die, you still have your health, you have your wits about you, you can come back.
- [11:51]
A
So this is your cheat code of dealing with, with failure. It's, as long as your health is here, as long as you have your health, you have your body, failure doesn't really fucking matter.
- [12:02]
B
Yeah, I think, I think, like, particularly in the United States of America, you know, I was always like, I can always be a waiter or a garbage person or something, right? Like, so I'm not going to starve, right? Like, so what is the real financial risk here? Like, and I can always start from that base and then work my way up. I know how to live on, like, very little money, right? And I can save money. I can have another at bat, right? And so when I started young, you know, that's a lot of at bats, right? Like, you have a lot of at bats for the next 10, 15, 20 years. And so that, that freed me from, like, there's really not that much risk, right, except for ego risk, right. And so once you kind of, like, look at it that way, right? Like, you can, you can take some really big shots.
- [12:52]
A
Tell me about the ego risk, because I think that's probably what keeps people scared over the physical or financial risks.
- [12:59]
B
Yeah. I mean, my, my observation, myself, friends, people I see is that most people don't try the new business idea. Don't go say I love you first. Don't move to another city and start a new career or take a risk with another job or any other type of risk. Mainly because of the ego risk, not because of the financial risk. They're afraid of their parents or their friends saying, oh, you're an idiot, or looking like a fool to others, and particularly themselves, like, we're our own worst critics. Like, oh, I'm such an idiot. Why did I do this thing? Like, when it doesn't go right, right? But that, that's like saying, I'm such an idiot when you struck out at bat, but you're a.400 batter or a.300 batter, right? Like, you're not gonna, you're not gonna hit the ball every single time, right? And so that ego risk really paralyzes people a lot. Just the idea of, wait, what? I was making this, I took this risk and now I'm making less than my peers, right? And so that form of cowardice is the biggest one. And the Most paralyzing. The most paralyzing.
- [14:04]
A
Yeah. You've said before that you think that people secretly love failure more than. Than they love success because of their ego.
- [14:12]
B
Yeah, I think, I think, I say people, people like a success story, but they love a failure. And the reason why is because it validates their own cowardice. So you go out, you go start a podcast, but maybe one of your friends or one of your acquaintance, they also want to start a podcast. And so, yeah, they like it if you succeed, and this is great for you, et cetera. But if you fail, it validates their own cowardice that they didn't try. See, so and so went out and she left a good paying job, or she could have been climbing the corporate ladder, but she failed as a podcaster. Right. It validates them. And so people love that. They love to validate their own negative self talk, their own ego that keeps them small.
- [14:56]
A
If somebody's listening to this, being like, yo, Bill, I am recognizing that I do that in my life. What advice would you give them to start to pull out of that mindset?
- [15:06]
B
Oh, wow. I don't know if I have the best advice, but I tend to look. Think about the end. I think about death a lot. And I think about, like, what do I want my ride to look like? Like what? My ride from each period of my life, you know, these next five years, ten years after that, and so on. And when I look back on it and I'm on my deathbed just thinking about my life and the path I've taken, what am I most proud of? Am I proud that I, like, didn't have this attempt or I was a coward and I sit back and I was played small, or do I want to hit the grave with scars, Emotional scars, financial scars, you know, a couple scuffs on the arm, but not dying. You know what I mean? You know, that type of thing. And I was like, that is a ride I want. And so I try and stay true to that and not, you know, waste that one ride, you know, looking back. So I think that fear of wasting my life and not having the most adventurous life is kind of what drives me and gets me over those, like, wow, you know, so do you think you're mo.
- [16:13]
A
You're motivated by fear? Like, fear of. Not fear of who you could. Could have been at the end of your life?
- [16:18]
B
I think it's. I think it's a combination of a fear of wasting my life and also when I have the most fulfilling life possible. So there, there's definitely some Fear in there, like, oh my gosh, I don't want to waste my life, I don't want to waste this time. I don't waste these moments. I don't want, you know, if I was 20, I don't want to waste my 20s, 30s, whatever period that is. But also like, I want to have the most exciting ride possible. Right. I don't want to, I don't want this, I don't want the safe life. I mean some people do. Like that's fine. There's some romanticism in a very simple, quiet life, you know, playing your part, but that isn't me.
- [16:55]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:56]
B
And that isn't most people who want to go out and try and be an entrepreneur. But it's kind of like holding back.
- [17:02]
A
Yeah. Do you feel like, do you think that underneath the playing safe though there's a desire? I don't think anybody actually wants a full time job. Maybe they do. Maybe we're just delusional.
- [17:14]
B
I don't know. I think I, I do think there are all types of people and all types of people make the world go round. And it's pretty hard for me to put myself in that. But I know that people have had a joyous life with the routines that they have and the structure that it has and the networks and the connections that they have. Add that, doing that. But there are also people with like, ideas and wanting to have a bigger impact and wanting to play a little bit bigger and wanting to take risks, but constrained by the judgment of other others, including themselves.
- [17:48]
A
So reflecting on death, do you think that this is just a innate part of who you are and your consciousness? Or is this something that you have a ritual or routine around?
- [17:58]
B
I think when I was younger and I was trying to make a bunch of money, I, I had many thoughts about like, what is it all for? And you know, when you're between 20 and 25 and a male, you know what it's for? It's for the women. It's for, it's for the women, you know what I mean? It's for the girls in the party. And, and I remember thinking, you know, working downtown Manhattan on, on in the World Trade center, you know, there's just, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a multi millionaire.
- [18:29]
A
Right.
- [18:29]
B
Or, and so, but they were older and I, I thought, wow, it's kind of lost on them. Like wanna do buy a nicer car to drive their kids to school. Like I couldn't see the purpose of the money because I was just a young Dumb kid at the time. But I, I, I was thinking about like, why am I here? Why do I want to make this money? What are the things I want out of life? Right? What kind of, what kind of ride do I want? You know, at the time I was heavily advertised to, to have it my life look like a rap video. Right. Like my life is gonna be like a rap video when I make it, you know, so, but, but you know, as you mature, you get more in touch with what you really want and what wasn't advertised to you. And you realize, okay, this is a ride I want. These are the things I want to accomplish. These are the things that fulfill me. And you discover the things you know. Life is about discovery. You don't know shit when you're 21. You never know shit. You just keep learning more. And I knew that I would be discovering things that I liked and I just wanted to have the resources to fully pursue them and sometimes risk all my resources to pursue some of these opportunities.
- [19:44]
A
Yeah. And be okay with that failure.
- [19:46]
B
Yeah. I realized that the most fun I've had was correlated with the quality of my relationships and the doing something versus the amount of wealth that I had.
- [20:01]
A
Is there any of the moments that come to mind, is it the most fulfilling?
- [20:04]
B
Um, I think early 20s when I was like becoming a trader and getting wealthy and getting hired without a resume and, and, and the successes and failures of trading and feeling like I was accomplishing my goals at the time and learning at the same time and you know, meeting all types of like minded people in that, in the industry and, and the friends. It was just like, it was an amazing time. All the way, all the way from the beginning when I was like broke and had to drive a limo at night to, to make men's meat. Those are just great times. It was just a lot of fun. So there was, there was a lot of purpose and a lot of connection and a lot of good, great relationships and it was just, it was just a great time. And I was like, wow, I had, I had a blast, you know, an absolute blast of a life. Busted.
- [20:55]
A
So, yeah, you have a lot of strong relationships in your life. Do you have any relationship cheat codes?
- [21:03]
B
Wow. I guess my biggest relationship cheat code is integrity and vulnerability. Those two together. If you're going to have a relationship, someone, you know, I tend to shy away from having too many people knowing because it starts to degrade the quality of your closer relationships. Like we're human beings, we don't have infinite capacity like an LLM. Right. Like can't remember everybody's name. Can't. Can't have a quality relationship. And a lot of these relationships that are not like vulnerable and very vulnerable and high integrity, there's just less value. I provide less value. If I'm going to be your friend, I'm going to provide value to you. I can't provide value to you unless one, I have integrity and two, I'm vulnerable with you. Right. And if we're just going to have a surface level conversation, you can have that with anybody. Yeah, you have that with a chatbot. You can. You don't need me. Right. But if you want a real conversation, then my unique perspective, the thousands and thousands of failures I've had, I can bring them to bear and give you some value. Like, hey, look at all the mistakes I make. You don't have to make these mistakes, right. You can learn from these lessons and we can get to know each other and vice versa. And so I think like, to having a quality relationship, those two are very important.
- [22:17]
A
Do you think picking your partner is a financial slash business decision?
- [22:25]
B
How about this? It's not a financial slash business decision, but it will be the biggest financial slash business decision you'll make of your life. So in a way it is, right? Like that's like. Well, it is, isn't it? I think the. Things that you're picking for apply to business relationships, right? But they're not like, oh, you're a great coder and you can write great code. So I want to sleep with you and only you for the rest of my life. You. That's not going to cut it, right? Like you're going to, you know, like that. That's not. You're going to select for like the same things. Integrity, vulnerability, fun, you know, you know, like minded interests, things like that, right. I think the table stakes, at least for a heterosexual relationship is that this person has a penis and this person has a vagina, right? So like there's going. That's like a table stakes, right? Like we always avoid that. Like people like what? You know, like what are you wishing a part. It's like, oh, they're kind and they're smart. It's like has a penis. You know what I mean? Like, you know that type of thing, right. And you know that, that type of compa. Compatibility, chemistry, same kind of range. Those things matter a lot. Yeah.
- [23:48]
A
Yeah. Okay. Couple of cheat codes that I want to talk about.
- [23:53]
B
Okay.
- [23:54]
A
One, the higher the risk tolerance, the lower the ego. Tell me more.
- [24:01]
B
You. When you're taking risky Bets you're. You're or. Or you're going out and you're trying risky endeavors. Generally you're trying something that no one has ever tried before or has tried and failed. Right. Or people shy away from because, like, you're crazy. Right? And the, the more you step out there, the bigger your goal. I want to change the world. I want to. I want to use do reusable rockets. I want to. You know what I mean? I want to create a different type of social network or whatever it is. A new. A new paradigm shift in anything. The more you will be judged as like a lunatic, improbable, a waste of time, maybe an idiot when you fail. And I think people who do that have to have a lower ego and just be focused on mission. Like the mission matters more than their ego. And so I think if you have a very, very strong ego or very, you know, you, you, you can, you can be successful with a strong ego. But like, I, I think you will be confined or limited.
- [25:07]
A
What's your mission?
- [25:08]
B
My mission? To enjoy life, to enjoy the ride. You know, that is my mission.
- [25:15]
A
Why did you move to Austin?
- [25:18]
B
I love Austin. Has water. It has, it has great intellectual firepower. It's very welcoming across all spectrums. And whether it be intelligence, money, coolness, etcetera, Nobody big times you here, you know, so it has that kind of weird vibe. Like you just find different people mixing together, and that's very, very awesome. It has that Southern hospitality with, you know, the creative. The creativeness of California, the, the. The wealth of anywhere, you know, of Connecticut, the intellectual firepower of a New York or a Boston, you know, it's all here.
- [26:04]
A
Austin is one of the best cities.
- [26:06]
B
It's got so many different vibes and so many different micro vibes, and everybody's just kind of like, welcome.
- [26:11]
A
Do you. You're not from Texas, right?
- [26:12]
B
No.
- [26:13]
A
Do you consider yourself a Texan now?
- [26:14]
B
Yeah.
- [26:15]
A
You're so Texas. You're not wearing boots, though?
- [26:17]
B
No, I'm not wearing boots. I'm wearing my simx custom K of them.
- [26:22]
A
You're so Texan. You give Texan.
- [26:24]
B
Yeah.
- [26:24]
A
Okay, next cheat code. Do not give a. What other people think. Listen to your dreams only as your compass.
- [26:31]
B
Yeah, I think this is the. Goes back to, you know, a similar theme of nobody's coming to save you. Nobody's going to come and give you like, the great life and be like, pat you on the back and guide you. You have to do it and you have to decide what success means to you, what your mission is what your priority stack is, and then you have to follow it, and then that's it. Fuck the haters. Fuck everybody else. Even fuck your current self. Like, a lot of times, like, people think it's external. Like, oh, fuck that guy. No, it's you. A lot of time, it's you doubting yourself, talking shit to yourself, saying you can't do it. Fuck that guy.
- [27:10]
A
Wow.
- [27:11]
B
Fuck that guy. Yeah, a lot of times I have to say that to myself, oh, man, fuck you. You don't know what you're talking about. Just mission first. Mission first.
- [27:18]
A
You know, follow the dream. Yeah, follow the dream, and everything follows.
- [27:21]
B
And sometimes, even on your priority stack, like, sometimes, like, I'm out of line or I'm being angry about something, or I'm just being a baby about something. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Get on mission.
- [27:31]
A
What do your personal upgrades look like? Like, is that a state of chaos? Is that like, you're. You're somatically feeling, like, how does that upgrade look like, besides saying fuck you to my current self?
- [27:43]
B
Well, like, a lot of times I have to. Let's say I'm in an argument about something, and I'm just out of line. I'm. I'm. I'm steaming, right? I'm steaming. I'm definitely right. And then I have to go to my private stack to, like, do you want to be right, or do you mean we loved? What are your vows? Like, what do you. What is your stack here? What are you trying to accomplish here? Oh, is this your priority stack? Then shut the fuck up. What are you complaining about? Get on mission. And I'm like, oh, shit, I got to get on mission. I'm sorry. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not on mission. This is the number one priority, right?
- [28:12]
A
Yeah.
- [28:13]
B
Or, you know, and I think that's. You know, a lot of people use it in the workout sense. It's like, it's either done or not done. Nobody cares if it hurts or it makes you tired, your feet hurt, or whatever. You either do it or you don't. The adjectives don't matter.
- [28:26]
A
How do you implement that with your kids? Like, I'm sure your kids have some really great excuses about why they don't do their homework.
- [28:32]
B
I mean, that's kind of Achilles heel. Like, kids are like, oh, but they're my kids and their daughters. They get to do whatever you want.
- [28:40]
A
You're like, what's your mission?
- [28:41]
B
Yeah, it's like, get on mission. You know, I think they will have a Similar journey as mine, I think. You know, one of the things about being young is that everybody's rooting for you and there's tons of resources dedicated to your success. Most of them you won't take advantage of. The colleges, the free this, the free tutoring, the college counseling, all everybody, the like, the coaching, it's just there, they're just everybody's rooting for you. And then when you graduate, you're just another person in the job market. Figure it out, son. You know what I mean? It starts to drop exponentially. And you know, it was funny because somebody was talk say really, is it that way? They were, I was talking to a college student, I said, do you ever post pass a homeless person on the street? And like, yeah. I said, if it was 11 year old boy, would you have stopped? They said, yeah, that's kind of like how it is in life. Everybody's trying to help you, but once you're an adult and you're in an adult world, you're a competitor. Yeah, I take advantage of that. While you're young, it starts going down real fast.
- [29:41]
A
Well, you have to find your own resources. And something I find interesting, an interesting disconnect that, that's very gatekept, is the fact that you have to spend a lot of money to get in the right rooms to get coaching. Personal development, self development, business development. And not everybody understands that that's not just a nice to have, that's a requirement. So for our listeners that maybe haven't, you know, since college, going to the tutoring or the, the counselor or whatever, have not invested in any sort of personal development coaching, what advice would you give to them?
- [30:14]
B
One thing I've noticed, like I, I used to have to read books, right. Like people think and grow rich and, and you know, people would have, this is how this person made it. Now every person who's been successful, they'll go on podcasts. So like yours, right? Like, and they have, they just spill the beans. Yeah, right. They will spill the beans. And I think you can search, search out these podcasts and listen to whoever it is in whatever field, whether it's microchips, retail porno, it doesn't matter. They're on a podcast talking about exactly how they did it. Right. It's in the record. And so, you know, like you said, no one's coming to save you. You're gonna have to seek them out. You know, and then sometimes like there's jobs that will like pay for you to go take a continuing education class. Sorry, they will you know, they'll pay for this. They'll. They'll do that. There's meetup groups. There's all types of stuff that is out there, especially. Especially in large cities. I mean, it's just absurd.
- [31:21]
A
How much money do you think you've spent on coaches, personal development in your lifetime?
- [31:27]
B
That's a really good question. Couple hundred, at least. A couple hundred?
- [31:33]
A
Yeah.
- [31:34]
B
A couple hundred.
- [31:35]
A
I think it depends on what you categorize. Yeah, too, probably.
- [31:39]
B
Yeah. Like, if you. In time, like, I went through this emotional intelligence class called Choice, which our mutual friend Chris Lee was my breakthrough trainer, and that wasn't really that expensive. Except for it hurt. It fucking hurt. But it was. It was transformative, Right. It was an unlock. It was a complete unlock and an unleashing. And so I don't think it has to be that expensive. Right. To get the big, giant gains. It will be expensive in terms of the amount of pain you will have to go through in order to change. I mean, rapid change is painful, right? Like, if you're like, I don't know, 40 pounds overweight and you're like, I want to lose this amount of weight in six months, it's going to hurt. It's going to hurt a lot. You know what I mean? You say five years, it's like, okay, it's not going to hurt that much. Right. And so rapid change is very painful.
- [32:35]
A
Yeah. I just interviewed Chris on the podcast, so for all of our listeners, like, oh, I want to learn more. Just go to the Chris Lee episode and you'll learn all about.
- [32:43]
B
He's great.
- [32:44]
A
All about it. He's so great. Yeah. I mean, really, the cheat code from that process is feedback. It's being able to receive feedback from mentors, from people around you, rather than, you know, getting on the wrong trajectory. Right. If the rocket ship is 1% off, you're ending up on Mars, not the moon.
- [33:01]
B
I thought that. Yeah. I think, you know, when people ask me, you don't want to spoil the movie. It's radical accountability.
- [33:08]
A
Right.
- [33:08]
B
At a religious level. Yeah, Literally, it's like a level sometimes, even now, I can't accept it. Like, I'm just like, no, I can't be. It can't be me. Isn't me. Yeah, it is. Holy shit, it is me again. You know, I mean, like, it's just me. It's. It's just radical, radical, radical accountability for your life, for your actions, how you feel, how you react to things, et cetera, and recognizing the power that you have. The. The ability to Rewire. The way you react to these situations does not have to be the way you historically reacted to them.
- [33:36]
A
How old were you when you did that?
- [33:38]
B
I think I was 43.
- [33:40]
A
Okay, so it was like in. In your journey, you were already.
- [33:44]
B
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a much need. I wish I did it much younger.
- [33:47]
A
Yeah, same, same. Okay, next cheat code. Spend when the memory value is the highest, not when the balance sheet looks best. That one's a little scary for me to accept.
- [33:59]
B
Yeah, I think I would, you know, crystallize that in that each period of your life has certain activities, according to whoever you are, that belong in that period of your life. They don't transfer well to the next period. And so, you know, if going camping with your girlfriends in, I don't know, Montana is a now time, not later, when you have kids and you can't do it and you can't schedule it or whatever is going on, and that might be, you know, thinking, oh, I'm going to have more money to go camping. It'd be better to take a cheaper camping trip now with your girlfriends. That's going to happen. That's going to pay you the memory dividends throughout the rest of your life than to not do it. Because those things don't necessarily transfer well to the next period in your life or ever at all.
- [34:49]
A
Do you think everyone should have a partying phase?
- [34:52]
B
I think the party should last your whole life. The type of parties are different. You know, my glow stick days, they're kind of all the way down. My party's like, hey, we're going to a party in a museum and we're gonna go art bar hopping and vibe out and listen to music. Those are still going. Right. So the type of partying you do changes, right? The staying up till 4am then popping up and then going to work. I can't do that anymore. I just. I don't know. Yeah, you know, in your 20s, you can do that. I'm like these kids, you know, but so I think there's not a. There's an intense physical partying phase and a different type of partying phase in your life because you have this thing called this organic spacesuit that we wear that deteriorates over time, that kind of is this forcing function on what activities you can do and can't do. And so just recognize that if you're the type of person that ever wants to go raging and raving in your life, it's probably on the younger end of the spectrum, not at 86 or 76. You're probably like, you know, asleep at 9 and the party start going, you know, until the party doesn't really get going till 2am Is there anything that.
- [36:04]
A
You regret not doing when you were younger?
- [36:06]
B
Yeah, I think I wish I was off autopilot and really in touch with the things that I wanted to do that, that were more me and not marketing to me. And so I wish I traveled more with friends and trips and arrange more fun things for us to get together and connect instead of just doing the, the cookie cutter life. There were a lot of cookie cutter things I did.
- [36:34]
A
Like what?
- [36:36]
B
Like, as I started making money, I started going out to clubs and doing things like that. And there's, there's a time for that, right? They're, they're not, they're. They're not. I'm like, I don't want to bash that completely. But that was it when I could have, like, arranged all kinds of, like, game nights and let's go traveling here and let's all save up our money and go to Miami or go to. Or go to Paris or go to Vietnam or go wherever. Like, those are things that I could have done when I had a lot of time or the energy, you know, during my free time to have a more adventurous, youthful life than kind of like the cookie cutter. Like, oh, Friday night, we go here, we do this, we do that, whatever. I'm not saying I didn't have a good time, but it wasn't. I didn't top grade my experience.
- [37:20]
A
So in order to minimize our regrets, we want to take inventory of what we actually desire versus what society is giving us to desire. Do you have a way to break that down or how?
- [37:31]
B
That is the hardest part. I talk about this and people are like, well, how do you do that? Like, I'll leave that silent. You guys go figure it out, you know, nobody's going to save you. I think it takes a lot of introspection and a lot of, like, quiet time alone. It's not something that you can sit down. At least I haven't been able to sit down in an hour or two hours and figure it out completely. I think you keep coming back to it and then you keep pulling on those strings. Like, okay, what is it? I like. Okay, I like hanging out with my friends. Okay, what specific friends you like? I like hanging out with these. I like meeting new people. What type of new people do you like, hang out? Okay, what kind of activities do you like to do? What would be fun? What would you. What would drive that? You Know what activities do you like to do and connect with people and then really working on that and be like, okay, what fits? Right? I think I would have had a. Just asking those questions in that way and thinking about that. I would have had a much more adventurous, fun. Many more memory dividends from my 20s than the way I did it.
- [38:30]
A
What memory dividends are you creating in this decade of your life?
- [38:34]
B
Well, I'm having a kid, so that's just like infinite bucket of your dividends. Usually. Like, I like socializing, playing games with friends, wake surfing kind of fun.
- [38:44]
A
Would you have a favorite game?
- [38:45]
B
Werewolves.
- [38:47]
A
Is this a board game?
- [38:48]
B
It's a social game. You can play up to like 20 people.
- [38:51]
A
Like with cards.
- [38:53]
B
There are cards that come with the game, but they're roles you play.
- [38:56]
A
Okay, I'm gonna Google this later.
- [38:59]
B
You're gonna have to Google this later. But it's a great game, a great, great, great game. Anybody can play. And the more you play, the deeper the game gets. But it forces people to socialize and analyze afterwards. And it's just a great, fun game to play. I like wake surfing. You know, I think traveling to places that challenge my worldview with people I love and connecting with new people or new ideas is my favorite thing. And so I usually design activities around that.
- [39:31]
A
What's been the most challenging place you've, you've visited or challenging to your worldview?
- [39:36]
B
Japan, by far. It's a modern city. That is culture is completely different than any place you go. I think nowadays it wasn't always this way. If you go to Europe, there's like kind of this Americanization, Westernization of Europe. So it's kind of hard to go to a place and get a truly authentic cultural experience of that culture, right? Like, you know, you go into Paris place and they're playing hip hop, right? Like, you don't hear like French songs unless you go deep in the countryside, etc. All over. But Japan is, it's Japanese and they're, they're very much. There was a survey done once where they asked the youth of Japan what was the biggest threat to Japan. And they said individual individualism.
- [40:28]
A
Wow.
- [40:28]
B
That was the biggest threat. So Japan is very much about the Japanese, the culture, what you can contribute. They think longitudinally, generations and generations and generations, right. I went through a tour around Kyushu in Japan on a train, and we were talking to one of like a fifth generation rice winemaker. And they're like, my life is to bring forward this skill to the next generation. Like, I, I just, it just like blew my mind. I was like, your life is to bring forward this skill to the next, to your kids and then so on. And I was just like 16th generation pottery makers and they're, and I just couldn't even, it just broke my brain for a little bit.
- [41:18]
A
That's wild. Well, I'll add Japan to my.
- [41:20]
B
Japan is the most amazing place.
- [41:23]
A
I'll go there just for you.
- [41:24]
B
Yeah.
- [41:24]
A
Is there anywhere you visited where you're like, fuck that, I'm not going back. That kind of sucked.
- [41:32]
B
No, I don't think so. Not like it. I'm trying to think where I've been. Like, I don't, I don't, I'm not down. I hated it. There's no place like I hated. You know, it was a different experience. Right. Like you've gone to places and it's a lux experience. You've gone to places like, okay, this is a new nitty gritty experience. Right. But it wasn't like, oh, I would never go back.
- [41:59]
A
Yeah.
- [41:59]
B
Right.
- [42:00]
A
Okay, well, I'm going to Japan.
- [42:02]
B
Japan is by far mind blown.
- [42:05]
A
Love it. Okay, next cheat code. People feel people fear running out of money rather more. Let me say that again. People fear running out of money more than they fear wasting their life.
- [42:18]
B
Yeah, I, I find that to be true.
- [42:20]
A
Mm. So they're holding so tight to money that they not actually living their life.
- [42:26]
B
I, I, I like you have, let's call it 86 years on the planet. Maybe technology gets a little bit longer, but like your last decade, you don't. That's it, that's all you got is your time and you don't want to fuck up the ride. And people are like, oh, I don't wanna fuck up like the amount of money I have in my bank account when I die. And it's just seems to me irrational. Where money is a tool to build a life, your life isn't a tool to build money. And so the fear, if I was going to fear anything is to wasting my life.
- [42:58]
A
Yeah. You have another cheat code that says you don't retire on money, you retire on memories.
- [43:03]
B
Yeah. That I truly believe for most people, those who are at the survival level, et cetera, and even people today, when friends get together, most of the conversation, most of their fulfillment, most of their self concept is discussing or things that have happened, not that things are going to happen. And so the older you get, the more when you gather with your friends, the conversations about things that have happened. Remember this, remember that. Remember this when you're in your 70s or when your body is no longer able to do the adventurous things you want to do, or it's even a pain in the ass to drive 30 minutes to go visit your friends. And you're maybe in your community most of your self concept, your joy, what you're consuming each day is the memories that you once that you've had. You've ever go visit your grandmother or your parents? It's like, like, what do you talk about? You don't talk about the skyscraper they're going to build or the business they're going to build. They talk about events that have happened and that brings them joy and, and nourishment to their soul and that's what they're retired on.
- [44:21]
A
Yeah, you got to build your bank of memories.
- [44:24]
B
You got to build, you know, those, those memories, they pay dividends for years and years and years. And at the end of the day, you will be the summation of all those experiences and all those memories. Your body will no longer be able to move throughout space time the way it once did. And you'll be confined to a very small area, smaller and smaller and smaller until it's your deathbed.
- [44:48]
A
Ooh, that's powerful.
- [44:49]
B
I mean, that's the way, that's just the way it be. You start very confined in a crib. You can't move. It expands and then it shrinks again.
- [44:58]
A
Yeah, well, hopefully we get extra years because we're living longer.
- [45:01]
B
Technology can change all this and be like, Bill, fuck you, Bill. Yeah, what if I'm on the new new. I'm on the new 10.
- [45:06]
A
What if Brian Johnson is right and we actually can live forever? And he's gonna be like, see Bill.
- [45:10]
B
I told you that would be, that would be amazing if you can. But there will be loved ones and experiences that belong in this time period. Yeah, I miss the time period with no cell phones.
- [45:21]
A
Really?
- [45:21]
B
Yeah.
- [45:22]
A
You can create.
- [45:23]
B
I mean, but I mean you can't, you can't have everybody without their cell phone. That, that, that error is gone.
- [45:28]
A
Yeah. Maybe you can like reincarnate into a new dimension that doesn't have fun.
- [45:32]
B
We're going beyond my, beyond my normal planning.
- [45:36]
A
I know. Do you think people could go too far in the other direction though? Like I imagine some people might be listening to this and be like, woohoo, Bill's telling me I don't need to make money and I should just go travel all the time.
- [45:46]
B
That's exactly not what I'm saying. Exactly not what I'm saying. If you're taking that message, you're not listening carefully. I'm saying that you should be intentional about your life and that your time is all you have to do, and that your wealth, your health, and your time are tools for you to build your own fulfillment, and you should take that seriously. And so if you're sitting around like, I'm going to hoard money and I'm going to build money, and I'm have a bunch of money when I'm 80, then you, you, you missed the plot. You missed the plot. And so how much money that is, depending on where you live, et cetera, your life, your own values, you know, what, what, what fulfills you, that that's going to be different for each person. But, but my message is all about. Let me say it again. My message is all about intentional living.
- [46:32]
A
Yeah. That's so powerful. Well, to wrap up, you said that your vision, your dream is to just live an amazing life, create great memories, connect with people. What's your vision for the world? What's your dream for the world?
- [46:46]
B
I mean, peace would be one thing, but everybody says peace. I think that people have a more fulfilling life. I would like them to have the most fulfilling life possible for them in their circumstances. Right. And so for each person, with each value system, that's going to be different. You know what I mean? I, I don't, I don't judge. If it's hookers and blow, I hope you have the most hookers and blow. You know what I mean? Like, if, if it's connecting with family members, et cetera, like, I, I want you to think intentionally, like, okay, how am I going to have the most connection? How am I going to have the most memories? How am I going to go build this? If it's, if it's charitable guilt, fixing some issue in the charity world, then I hope you had the most impact that you possibly could in that field. And so what I want people to do is kind of like, get off autopilot, think about what they really want in each stage of their life, and actually do it.
- [47:41]
A
So your dream is that everybody lives their dreams?
- [47:44]
B
Yeah, pretty much.
- [47:45]
A
Yeah.
- [47:45]
B
I don't know if you get all your dreams, but, like, you will have such a. More, such a more adventurous, fulfilling life if you go out intentionally and try and make it happen, whether you fail or not.
- [47:58]
A
Yeah. More fun. It's more fun.
- [48:01]
B
It'd be a great ride.
- [48:02]
A
So beautiful. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where can everybody find you and connect with you?
- [48:07]
B
Oh, dear. And your book, My book, Die with Zero. Is. It's everywhere. I think every. Pretty much everywhere. You can get it on all the major bookstore outlets or your local bookstore. There's also, if you don't like reading, there's My Voice, if you like my voice. But you miss out on the charts and I don't know, I'm around. I'm in the Twitter Streets. I'm BP22 at Twitter. I'm on Instagram, Bill Perkins. But I'm pretty much just wake surfing, hanging out. I'm not trying to be the guy. I don't want to be the guy. You know, a lot of people, like, you know, you ask, like, why don't do podcasts? And it's like, I wanted to put this message out and I wanted people to get value out of it because I wrote the book to save my own life first, and then I thought that other people can get value out of it, but I don't want to be the guy. Like, I don't want to be like, I'm the die with zero guy. I'd rather other people just take it and go live their life because I don't want to be the book. I want to live the book.
- [49:04]
A
Yeah. That's so beautiful. Well, you just influenced 30,000, mainly Gen Z new audience of your message.
- [49:11]
B
Get at it. Gen Z. Love it.
- [49:12]
A
Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Bill. This is so great.
- [49:15]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [49:16]
A
Yay.