A (2:30)

I'm. I'm pumped.

B (2:32)

Happy. Welcome to Austin.

A (2:33)

Yeah, I. I mean, crazy city. Been here a couple times, but every time I come, I'm like, everybody lives here.

B (2:39)

No, literally, the magic. Magic happens in Austin. So you have spent the last, like, eight years behind the scenes.

A (2:47)

Yeah. In the trenches, building Dan's. Dan Martel's personal brand.

B (2:52)

Now you're starting to step into building your own personal brand. And I want to talk a little bit about those frameworks, but before we get into that. 16. How. Tell me the origin story of this. How did you start working for a Dan at 16? He's like this, like, high schoolers coming to me.

A (3:08)

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's. It's pretty. It's a pretty wild story. But, you know, I grew up. My dad was an entrepreneur. He like, introduced me in a bunch of books growing up. And I know, you know, you read Rich at Poor dad. You read, Think and Grow rich. When you're 14, you start asking, what's a business? How do I get involved with this? And that's kind of how I fell into Dan's world. I started watching his YouTube videos when I was 14 years old. You know, he was getting maybe 500 views a video, so he was like a nobod at that time. And, you know, found out who his videographer was, applied to work with him, started working with his videographer at 16. And then at 18, that's when Dan took me on the team full time. So, yeah, it was crazy story of like, just liking something as a passion. Videography that, you know, I was snowboarding, filming my friends and making edits, and then turning that into a monetizable skill and then finding someone like Dan that I could actually, like, grow and, and pour into. But yeah, it was. It was a. It was a crazy journey. And looking back, like, people asked me, like, would you ever thought, like, no part of me had any idea that any of this was possible. Like, back then, TikTok wasn't even a thing. So, like, none of this social media stuff was the thought back then. I just really like making videos and I like who Dan was.

B (4:22)

You were like, studying for your math test, but also working on the side.

A (4:27)

I have this clear memory of me in class while the teacher's speaking. I have my laptop, my 2015 MacBook open on my lap editing videos. And I got caught, like, multiple times editing videos in class. And my teacher would have me close my laptop. I had to give it to her.

B (4:45)

No. Oh, my God. That's iconic.

A (4:48)

Oh, yeah. It's fun. It was fun. I was. Yeah, it was the fun memories, for sure.

B (4:53)

So I'm hearing two really interesting cheat codes. One, instead of going straight to Dan, you actually went to Dan's videographer.

A (4:59)

Yeah.

B (5:00)

So maybe for our audience, that's really pitching that person, because they want to write for them, they want to work with them in some way maybe to get around that. You can go to somebody that's already on their team, that might be their agency and independent consultant, and go that route. That's really smart.

A (5:14)

100. That's. That's a great observation. Yeah, I think I've seen people do that with me, and I think that's really smart. Like, you know, not going because they're getting bombarded, but they have, you know, a number two, number three, number four, that is, you know, around them all the time. And if you want to add value to them to get in the world, that's 100 doable.

B (5:32)

Right. If they land in Dan's inbox, it's. It's gonna. It's gonna go to Request or he's just gonna sell them on the offering. If they go to you, maybe you're hiring like a PA for a shoot or something. You could bring them on. You could start a relationship.

A (5:46)

Yeah.

B (5:47)

The second thing I'm hearing that's it's actually, this is a cheat code in my book. But you took something that was your hobby and you use that as work experience. So you said, hey, I actually have these snowboarding videos that I can show you. I think a lot of young people might think, oh, but my snowboarding videos aren't professional. They're not relevant. So, like, I can't use them on my LinkedIn. They can't go on your resume. But you said, no, fuck that. Like, this is actually extremely relevant. Check out my skills. And even though you didn't have formal work experience, you used your hobby adds that work experience.

A (6:19)

Yeah, yeah, 100%. I think that's something everybody can do is take what they like, their hobbies, and then figure out a way to monetize them. Because at the end, if you. If you wake up every day and all I do is going to. Is making videos, I'm going to be really happy. And if I'm not doing that, then I'm not Going to be happy. And I think a lot of people have that opportunity to. That's anything. Could be finding rocks. You can make tiktoks about finding rocks on the beach. Like, I've literally seen people make money from that. You could literally, you know, sell trinkets that you make. Like, there's unlimited ways for you to monetize your skill, and you just have to be creative.

B (6:53)

I had somebody come to me one time saying, like, courtney, I really want to work in social media, but I have. I have zero experience. And after talking to her for a few minutes, I found out that she made, like, highlight reels of her church's kickball team.

A (7:07)

And I was like, yeah.

B (7:08)

I was like, that's your experience?

A (7:10)

Yeah.

B (7:10)

She's like, well, but it doesn't count. It's not for a company. I was doing it for my friends. Like, no, it absolutely counts.

A (7:16)

Yeah.

B (7:16)

Anyways, go read my book Career Cheat Codes, and do the whole chapter. Go read it right now. All right. You've been around Dan for a long time. 8 years. He has a crazy, incredible mindset. What is the number one mindset shift that you've had from working with Dan?

A (7:32)

This is what Dan taught me. Everything you see around you has been created by somebody else in their mind first. And so if you can picture it in your mind, it's 100% possible. And I think. I didn't really. You hear that and you're like, yeah, sure. Like, yeah, right. You know, I was that guy, and I was extremely skeptical until I saw Dan over the last eight years. Think about stuff, take action, and then it becomes true. Think about stuff, take action, and then becomes true. And after, you know, 25 times that I see him do it, then I started doing it myself. And I'm like, you know, I want to get to 10k followers on. On Instagram. And I visualize it, take action, and it happens. I want to get to 20k followers. I get to 20k followers. I want to get to 30k. I get to 30k, and now I'm on my. On a mission to get to 100k, right. And that only happened because I had a thought in my mind, which is, how crazy would it be to just get to 100k followers with just my iPhone? Like, if. Would that be a crazy thing to do? And it was something I pictured in my mind first, and then I took action. And I think that's the biggest mindset shift that I had to go through, especially building the media company, which is something I've never done. By the way.

B (8:33)

Yeah.

A (8:33)

Like, I was new to everything, but I had a vision for what was possible. And, you know, I wanted to make Dan bigger than any business influencer in the world. And he has been the fastest growing business influencer in the space since then. And I, you know, pictured it in my mind first, something I learned from Dan. And then as. As long as you execute, like, the timelines are irrelevant, like whether it takes 10, 20, 25 years for me to do this, I'm gonna do it. It's just, it has to be true in your mind first. And you have to hold that belief.

B (8:59)

You can literally do anything. And also getting to a hundred thousand followers using only your iPhone, There are tens of thousands of people, maybe even hundreds of thousands of people that have accomplished that.

A (9:08)

Oh, yeah.

B (9:09)

Like, you can see expanders all around you. And obviously, even if it's something that you've never seen anybody do before, you can still fudge do. Everything is a game, Everything is fake.

A (9:18)

Yeah. 100%.

B (9:19)

You can do whatever you want. You've been building Dan's personal brand. Now you're investing in your own personal brand.

A (9:26)

Yeah.

B (9:26)

Why did you decide to take that step?

A (9:29)

So there's two main reasons. The first one is regret minimization. I believe in the next five years, we're all going to see content. There's going to be one of two camps. The one one is there's everything's going to be AI. Nobody's going to care. The second one is there's going to be, just like in the groc store, an organic section where people go if they want to see organic content. So I think the best time to make content was five years ago. And the second best time is today. And I want to regret the amount of. I want to minimize the amount of regrets that I'm going to have in the future by doing that. The. The second reason is building characters within Dan's universe. So, you know, you. You've seen this with movies, right. In Disney, Pixar, you've seen this with the Avengers, where you have one main character. Let's say, like iron man in 2008 came out, everybody loved it. That's Dan. Right. But then you also have these side characters, Renee Warren, Dan's wife, myself. Right. That also create this universe, but teaching some similar frameworks, but attracting a completely different tam. Total addressable market. Right. Because Renee could make, you know, a video that's saying the exact same thing as Dan. Both are going to attract a different audience just because the way they look. Right. Rene is going to have 60, 40 audience female. Dan's gonna have 60, 40 mil. And just, that's just the way it is. And for me, like I'm gonna, I have a bunch of 20 year olds that follow me that don't follow Dan. Right. Because they relate to my story and my experience more. And so we want to create this, this universe of, of characters within, within our world so that we can actually expand, you know, beyond just like Dan's personal brand and also dearest the business.

B (11:00)

So to our audience, they're building their personal brands. They're like, all right, what is the first step for me to start to create that universe? Where would you recommend they start?

A (11:09)

I mean, I'm always like, just take action. I think I, I'll, I've been overthinking it for the past five years and you know, if you look at my phone, I recorded videos for the past five years on my phone that are, have never been posted by the way, just because I'm, you know, embarrassed of them. Obvious, honestly. But you know, I, I procrastinated it and I wish I would have started it sooner. So if, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, hey, I want to start making content, like literally pick up your phone, record a 30 second video using the hook, explain L3 teach framework and post it.

B (11:40)

Yeah. You would have been way further along in your follower journey had you posted those videos.

A (11:45)

Oh yeah.

B (11:45)

I find it to be way harder though for like videographers, photographers, anybody who's professional in the space, because you just know too much.

A (11:52)

Yeah.

B (11:52)

And you also, there's, you know, all of the layers of what makes something really good visually appealing. So it's a lot harder for someone like you to just post random ass content.

A (12:02)

Yeah. Informed pessimism. It's like all my hair, lights off, my key, lights off.

B (12:06)

It's like, yeah.

A (12:06)

That's why I honestly was on, went on the journey with like minimal production value as in like the lighting and the cameras and all that stuff. Because I wanted to create constraints that made it sustainable for me where I could like just do this and do it every day and not worry about the details. The only thing I have to worry about is the quality of my information, which honestly I think is all that matters as you know, this and everything else is relevant. And so yeah, that's, that was the big focus for me.

B (12:34)

So you created constriction for yourself in order for you to actually execute because if you had your whole setup, you would be thinking too much about the lighting and this and that. But now you're saying, I'm only using my iPhone. You've created this constriction that makes volume a lot easier.

A (12:49)

Oh yeah.

B (12:49)

And you kind of give yourself an out. You're like, well, the lighting wasn't great

A (12:52)

because I'm just using my iPhone. Sometimes I shoot like against the window and I'm like, man, the lighting looks so bad. But it's, it's, you know, I know I'm, I'm shooting myself in the foot in a way where it's like, yeah, my videos could maybe perform 10, 20% better if I had a actual quality mic where you could hear me clearly. But I'm willing to make that trade to just have the flexibility for now. Because that's the biggest thing is to get started, you have to reduce the amount of friction between you and doing the thing. And so me picking up my phone every day and recording a 60 second video is a lot easier than me sitting down in front of a camera and recording, you know, four or five 60 second videos and then sending that to my editor and the hard drives and SD cards, it's like, no, it's on my phone. Edit it on your phone, get it posted and just get momentum. Because then after that you can still work on anything above that. Right? But if you have the base and you put the reps in with the least amount of friction, then you're actually going to get better at making content. And that's, that's, that was the key too. It's like, yeah, I'm making it to, you know, reduce the amount of regrets that I have and also, you know, grow Dan's, you know, total audience size. But then it's also, I want to get better at making content because I believe on the other side of you picking up the phone and recording something, you're also going to become a better speaker, you know, you know, think better in meetings. And it's just a net positive. And so that was like the biggest revelation for me.

B (14:11)

Yeah, two things there. One, it's really crazy how many people come to me and they're like, what's better? This lighting or this lighting? Should I order this microphone or this microphone? It's like, none of that fucking matters if you don't post. You're right, it could get you 10 or 20% more views, but right now you're sitting at zero views. So it's 10 to 20% of zero. Still zero. Like, go post something even if it's not.

A (14:34)

And sometimes the videos that are the lowest production value, even in like some other creators will be the ones that pop off the most. Like I was looking at, you know, your amazing content and the one that popped off the most in the last two weeks was the one where you had a green screen set up, where you're literally just with your phone and you're talking about stuff behind you and it's super organic and people feel the authenticity and that's why that performed better than everything else. Right. And so I think people overthink it. And yeah, you'll, you'll learn a lot more by doing than thinking about doing. And so just, just pick up the phone and post.

B (15:05)

And you're also. The second thing you were saying is to give yourself a constraint and a timeline. So you're. You gave yourself a constraint. Only on my phone and a timeline. Are you saying or. It's not a timeline, it's a, it's a goal.

A (15:15)

I'm getting to 100k and the timeline was 90 days and I did 90 days and I got to 30k. But guess what? Like that doesn't change anything. I'm going to show up.

B (15:24)

Yeah, so. So for our audience listening, you could do. I'm going to do a carousel every day for 30 days. I'm going to do a tweet or an Instagram story or whatever. Like start where you're going to be consistent because consistency matters more than anything else. So was there. I just love hearing people's wins from building a personal brand. And you've seen all of Dan's wins over the last eight years. You've seen media opportunities and book sales and money and growth and all of that. But for you, since you've committ to building your personal brand, what wins have you seen in your own life?

A (15:58)

Well, I think, you know, obviously the reason why I'm in Austin right now, got invited to speak in front of 500 people, which is something I've never done. You know, I've spoken on stage in front of hundreds of people, never 500. I think that was pretty cool. I think podcast opportunities, right? Getting connected, really cool people like you. If I had to like distill it down to one thing, I'd say building my personal brand 100% helped me train my team better. And I think that's what that was like. The biggest side effect that I did not expect and the biggest win that I did not expect is that all the content that I now make, because I make content about making content, is now my training material for my team. So my team of 15 people on my media team now get to just watch my videos and learn. Watch my videos and learn. And whenever I onboard a new team member, I can put together a library of videos and just have them watch those videos and we're on the same page. And I think that was the biggest. Like, yeah, the audience. Yeah, the connections. And that's all fun for me, but for other people, they get to grow on the other side of, you know, obviously watching my content, but then implementing it in real time inside the company. So I thought that was really cool. Is like, it's. I'm creating a training SOP through my actual content. And it was. That was like a revelation. Revelation that I had literally two weeks ago where I'm like, my. My team's getting better because I'm posting content and that's cool as fuck.

B (17:17)

That's so cool. Well, you're being a leader. I. I love what you said about speaking. You said creating videos is helping you in your public speaking, in your communication, in meetings. Like, putting in those reps is really helpful. And I hear a lot of people saying, oh, like, I don't want to be some influencer just making videos, blah, blah, blah. It really has a lot of depth in benefits. Like, truly, truly, truly. Being able to pick up the phone and record a video comfortably will serve you so much in life. Whether that is sending a video to your team because you're leading a team, whether that be pitching yourself, whether that be giving a presentation or speaking. But I just love that you bring it up, because I don't think we've talked about that on the podcast before. But creating videos every day really helps your public speaking, your communication skills, your writing skills, all of it, 100%.

A (18:10)

And I've even seen it, like, in the last eight years working for Dan. Like, people forget that Dan was a technical software guy. He built software companies. And he'll say this to you first, like, he was a nerd. He was an introvert. He didn't like speaking in front of big groups. And through his journey of creating content over the last 12, 14 years, because he was making content before I met him, he became what I think is one of the best public speakers in today's modern age just by literally picking up his phone and recording.

B (18:37)

Yeah, it's repetition. It's like, oh, well, I'm bad at guitar. I'm bad at guitar because I've never picked up a guitar, right? If I went to guitar lessons every single day for three years, I would. I'd be great at guitar. So I think we get to give ourselves permission to be bad at something at first. You're gonna suck at it when you're starting to build your personal brand. Or maybe you've already built your personal brand. Now you're starting to do videos, you're starting to talk on camera. It's gonna suck at first, and that's okay. It's so embarrassing because it's like you're learning guitar in public in front of thousands of people.

A (19:09)

Everybody has to see it, and everybody sees it.

B (19:11)

You can't really hide, but it's such a valuable skill. What's been the hardest part about your own personal brand journey?

A (19:20)

If I had to distill it down to one thing, the hardest part of building my personal brand has definitely been coming up with new content ideas. Because I'm 90 days in, so let's say I have like 30% overlap. That means I have 60 unique concepts, right? Do I have more than 60 unique concepts that I teach my team? I don't know, like maybe 75, maybe a hundred. So I'm trying to figure out the next phase of my personal brand, which is like, how do I actually innovate on my current content? Because up to these 90 days, basically all my content was just taking my internal sops and packaging them for the public. And that's really good, by the way, if you're listening.

B (19:54)

Yeah, I'm gonna steal that, bring that

A (19:55)

to it, do that. It gets you really good results. But now it's like, I've almost talked about everything. What's the second phase? Right. And I think I have to figure out, you know, what kind of format do I want to. Want to do? Long term, that might be a repeatable format because I currently don't really have one except for like, you know, the fact that I record with my phone. But the information that I share is net new every single time. Or figuring out how do I hit the same, you know, 60 concepts from different angles? And I think that's going to be the next challenge. That's probably the hardest part is ideation, which is if I had to distill any content organization's problems down to one thing, it's ideation. It's what are you talking about? It's what topics and then how do you talk about those topics? And that's also my problem, which is funny that I'm the content guy and I have a hard time coming up with content ideas.

B (20:41)

Well, that's definitely the hardest part because that's where the creativity art really comes in where, I mean, obviously production and videography is quite an art too, but you get to a point where it's repeatable and you have the framework that's repeatable. Ideation takes some. Takes some magic.

A (20:55)

Oh, yeah.

B (20:56)

But honestly, I mean, my advice to you would just be just keep saying the same thing. I don't know, I just say the same, like three things over and over. All my podcasts are saying the same thing. All my posts are saying the same thing. I still post about other random just because it's fun. But yeah, I see no problem.

A (21:12)

I think that's the advice I needed to hear.

B (21:14)

Yeah. Repeat yourself.

A (21:15)

Yeah. Whenever. When I look at what I, you know, Dan talks about the same 10 things, 15 things. Gary Vee talks about the same five things. Like the top creators are. It's almost hilarious. There's almost a correlation between how big the creator is and how many. How not many things are talking about.

B (21:32)

Right.

A (21:33)

Gary V is one of the biggest content creators in the world, and he literally talks about five things.

B (21:37)

Yeah.

A (21:37)

And then the more you scale down and see, the second biggest creators, they talk about a broader scheme of things, which is kind of interesting.

B (21:44)

I think it's because when people start out, they. They test the waters, they talk about everything that's interesting, they look at the data, they refine their messaging, and then their messaging distills down to like a couple of things. But I'm all about repeating myself. Also, you have to repeat yourself so much for the audience to actually implement behavior change.

A (22:02)

Like, yeah.

B (22:03)

How many times do people say, wear sunscreen daily? And like, did you put on sunscreen today?

A (22:08)

Nope.

B (22:08)

Okay, well, there we go. Have you heard that message?

A (22:11)

Yeah, too many times.

B (22:13)

I mean, you live in a not super sunny place.

A (22:15)

Yeah. I mean, Canada's pretty, pretty cold.

B (22:17)

You are in Texas today in a sunny day. Or like, I don't know, people, you know, I, I have fitness instructors that come, that come to my program and they say, like, Courtney, how often can I tell people to, like, eat healthy? I'm like, well, are. Are. Look outside in the world. Are people eating healthy? No. Okay, well, keep saying it. Keep saying it over and over and over.

A (22:38)

Yeah.

B (22:39)

Okay, I want to talk about your H E I T framework. This framework has literally produced hundreds of millions into the billions of views.

A (22:48)

We've gotten over 3 billion views with that framework.

B (22:50)

Wow. Okay, explain.

A (22:52)

Yeah. So we get over 200 million views a month across all platforms using this simple framework. And it's the high framework. Right. Hook, Explain, illustrate, teach. And the Hook is all about giving context for what's being said in the video, providing a contrarian take and then creating an open loop. And you can create an open loop using unique mechanisms, which is basically naming things, which I just did, by the way, saying the hype framework, wink, wink, and also sharing a roadmap. So if you watch any of my videos, you know, my YouTube or not my YouTube videos, but all my Instagram videos, any of Dan's YouTube videos, we always share a roadmap, like showing the viewer journey. And it could be like five steps, six steps, seven steps, but you basically show them what is coming up in the video. So that's the hook. Then you go into the explain. You just explain the concept a little bit more to make the viewer kind of lean in and then you illustrate it, right? And illustration could be an analogy, a story, it could be an example, but something that connects the unknown concept to something that's known. So connecting like, you know, the high framework, I could use a story about, you know, the time where I didn't have a framework. And then I figured out this framework with Dan and then we started getting results where I was just like putting the, you know, clicking on, on the camera and then we record a video and then we wouldn't really get results. And I was asking myself why. And then I went and scanned, you know, the top hundred videos on Dan's platform and I realized they kind of follow the same, same journey, which is hook, explain, illustrate, teach. So that's an example of an illustration. I'm telling a story. I could also use an analogy, right? Comparing it to something else. Making content is kind of. Making content without a framework is kind of like trying to put a puzzle together without the picture on the box, right? I'm connecting it to something that's known by and sharing something that's unknown. And then the last part is just teaching. And the teach part, I think people try to overcomplicate it and share like six things, seven things, nine things, which is all good. But at the end of the day, if you can share one clear, actionable step that your viewer can now take and get them results, like you said earlier, or what I call it, Ria, you know, results in advance, that is how you're going to get people to actually follow you for a long time and honestly create a cult like following where most of my followers are engaging with all my content because all the stuff that I share, I have the last part, which is teach. I give them one clear, actionable step that they can now take and implement their business or their life or their, you know, content journey and they're going to get results whether, you know, they pay me a dollar or not.

B (25:13)

Right.

A (25:14)

So that's, that's the height framework.

B (25:15)

Let's, let's create a post right now using the height framework. Give me like a health, a healthy habit you have in your life.

A (25:21)

Yes. I mean, I walk every day.

B (25:24)

Okay. So can you give me a height framework about getting 10k steps?

A (25:27)

Yeah. So I would give context. Contrary. Take create an open loop. So if you're walking less than 2,000 steps in a day, you're going to die from a heart attack. That's contrarian. Take creates an open loop, gives context for the viewer. I'm going to explain a little bit. If, if you're a young, healthy adult, you should be walking anywhere between 10,000 to 15,000 steps a day on a minimum. That's just explaining it. Then I go into illustrating it. That's where I share a study or an example. I'm like, you know, Harvard study shows that XYZ steps reduces your heart risk by 75% or whatever. I could share that. And then I'm going to give the teach, which is literally just repeating. So if you're watching this and you're not watching, you're not, you know, taking 10k steps a day, just go into your health app on your Apple phone and look at how many steps you took that day and try to increase that number to 10 to 15,000 per day today. That's it.

B (26:19)

Easy peasy.

A (26:20)

Yeah, it's as easy as that.

B (26:23)

So good. Yeah, I think that's like, just very actionable for our audience. Like as we're scripting this, maybe using Chat, GPT or CLAUDE to help script, give them this framework and outline and, and see how some of your existing posts can be improved. Because you can go back, see what's working well and go recreate some of your existing posts using the height framework.

A (26:42)

100.

B (26:43)

That's great and great example with the 10k steps. You did that so far.

A (26:47)

I hope, I hope that landed for people.

B (26:48)

So now you gotta go make that video. Yeah, yeah, I think that's. Yeah, you could be like, no, no, no, I'm telling you guys, like, go check your steps right now, come back, comment on this video like you're satisfied and like expose yourself.

A (27:02)

Yeah.

B (27:03)

And people would be like, okay, CCN fit. Tell me about the CCN fit.

A (27:07)

Yeah, so I believe, you know, a lot of people focus on camera gear, hooks, stories, analogies, all those are important. You know, everything's important when it comes to creating content. But if I had to like distill it down to the most important thing, the tip of the pyramid would be topic. And whenever people ask me, they're like, well, how do I know if I'm picking the right topics? I always tell them, you know, your topic should follow the CCN fit, which is core casual new audience fit. And I didn't invent this. You know, Patty Galloway, Mr. B's creative director, kind of coined the term, but it's basically this concept of making every single piece of content appeal to. And picture a Venn diagram, right? Three parts. Your appeal to your core casual and new audience. So the people that buy from you, your core audience, you know, the people that watch and buy from you, your casual audience, the people that don't necessarily buy from you yet, but they're getting nurtured, they're watching your stuff. And then your new audience, the people I've never seen your face before. And what that's going to do is it's going to allow you to make videos that get views, go viral because it appeals to, you know, broad tam, but then also serve your core audience because you're keeping them in mind. And I think a lot of people get away from making content for their core audience because they think, you know, I want to get views or the opposite. They only make content for their core audience because they want to go deeper and niche down and then they don't get views. But what I'm saying is you can do both. And an example of that, I'm going to give a really clear example, illustrating the point, wink wink is if we make a video about meeting some of the biggest time waster in any company, in any of Dan's videos, that topic meetings being a time waster in a company resonates with our core casual and new audience because the core audience, the entrepreneur, runs a lot of meetings. And they also know like, yes, sometimes most meetings are waste of time. The casual audience, the people that maybe aren't entrepreneurs yet, but they are on meetings and they understand that they're a waste of time that pisses them off. So they're in the comments, little rage bait going on. And then the new audience, you know, the people, I've never seen Dan's face before, they understand how meetings are the biggest waste of time in a company, right? And so that one topic is hitting all three core customers or core viewers. And then the core audience is getting the, is getting the learning they're Getting the teach. Right. Because at the end of the video, Dan shares like, so instead of, you know, running a lot of meetings, you should have a really clear strategy for how to get there, have really clear owners for certain KPIs, and have a scorecard to track those KPIs every single week. And you're not going to have to run 15 meetings in a week. Right. And so we're picking a broad topic, which is meetings, but we're making it very, very actionable to our core audience. But then also it. It applies to our casual and new audience at the same time.

B (29:40)

It's really interesting to me that you're doing that in one video rather than having, like, separate videos for these separate audiences.

A (29:46)

Yes, sometimes. So that's. So those. Those videos are. Most are videos. Then it's like, I also make videos and sometimes I don't want to go into too much nuance because then people are, you know, overwhelmed and they're not going to take action. But yes, that's 75 of our videos. Right. The other 25 is what I call deep content. So that's wide content. Then our deep content is just for our core audience. So you'll see, you'll literally, if you go on Dan's YouTube channel right now, you'll see a video that has 500,000 views, 500,000 views, 400,000 views, and then a hundred thousand views. Right. Was that video a flop? A lot of people would say yes. But if you look at the topic of most of those videos that get 100,000 views on Dan's YouTube, there are topics that are aimed just towards our core audience. Right. An example of that is how to become a top 1% leader. Right. How to, how to manage your time as a CEO, how to invest your money. Like the top 1%. Those topics, you know, might not necessarily hit, you know, all our ccn, the casual new audience, but they're very deep and they hit our coral audience. They hit our. The people that buy from us. Right. And those videos nurture the most. And I'm not saying like, just do, you know, highest ECM fit content. What I am saying is, like, most of your content should be that, but then make. Also make some content that's just for your core audience because that's how you're going to get people move down the funnel and monetize.

B (31:07)

Yeah, I'm sure those are much higher converting.

A (31:09)

Yeah.

B (31:09)

Because they're like, all right, Dan's cool. But now what the fuck are you about? Like, do you. Are you really Gonna help me in my leadership and running a business, whatever. And that's.

A (31:18)

But here, yeah, here's the key. And like how to run a business, how to build a business that runs itself is another example. The key here is like, if we just made those videos, like how to invest your money, how to run a business, like the top 1%, how to go from a million to 10 million, all like very deep, you know, pieces of content. If we just made those and didn't make any of the other videos that got eyeballs, those three videos would get 500 views, you know, a thousand views, 1500 views. They want to get 100k, 150k, 90k. Right. But it's because we're casting a wide net and then from that net we're able to go pick the right fish.

B (31:52)

Yeah, yeah, it's, I mean, obviously like the amount of people that have meetings, like 3 billion people have meetings. But like, I don't know, 10 million people are CEOs, so it's just a much smaller audience. Um, but that's, I, I think that's really great because you can address both of them. And I do have a lot of listeners and commenters that ask that question. Well, you know, I have such a niche audience. Like what do I. Do I have such a niche audience? How do I. You can still monetize, you can still have a strong personal brand with the niche audience. But I like that even if the niche audience is business owners, CEOs, you're obviously, if you're working with Dan, you're making a certain amount of money in order to make that investment. You, you still can speak to both because, yeah, there's also different offers. Like anybody can buy like a $10 book.

A (32:35)

Yeah, yeah, literally. Yeah. And then I think if you set up your business that you have, you know, a low ticket offer, a mid ticket offer and then a partnership offer or like a high, higher ticket offer, I think that's the best way that you can kind of hit on all tams because yeah, you're not going to really make money on any low ticket offer unless you have like really high volume. And yeah, if, even if you don't have a way to serve them, that's totally fine too.

B (32:56)

Yeah, totally. I use the example of my, my partner Lucas all the time in this podcast because he has an extremely niche pod. Like his audience, he addresses like Spanish speaking vascular surgeons. There's like 400 Spanish speaking vascular surgeons in the world. Like, it's really small, but he has like 200 podcast listeners and his brand deals are bigger than mine. Let's go with like 200 followers.

A (33:20)

Yeah. The quality is so high it's crazy.

B (33:22)

I'll. I see his brand building like, damn it. Like, yeah, I gotta catch up to you so you can you really high, high conversion and, and, and great partnerships and everything with a small audience. Y. I'm curious if you have felt like your judgment as a human and like in your own self development has improved through your content. Like, do you think content creation has improved your judgment in other parts of life?

A (33:47)

Oh, 100%.

B (33:48)

Yeah. How so?

A (33:50)

I think by creating content and trying to find things that have, have, you know, obviously there's CCN fit, but I have another framework that I think about whenever I'm trying to pick topics that resonate with my audience. And it's demand, fit, interest. So like the fit is the same part. Does that fit with my audience? But you know, does it have demand with the market? And does it. Do I. Am I interested in it? Right? Interest? Do I generally want to talk about this topic? And I think being in touch with demand in the market has definitely made me a better person of judgment in my life because I know what people want, right? I know that people want views and followers. They don't want, you know, comments and shares. And so being in touch with like the psychology of the human around you, I think 100 make you a better person of judgment. And I've definitely seen that happen in my life where it's like anytime that I'm working on anything or even, you know, packaging a YouTube video, I'm always asking myself, you know, what does the viewer really want more? Right? And I think if you can know that answer in any realm of life, not just content, what does this person want of this out of this partnership? Right? What does this person want out of this relationship? I think you can get a lot closer to being in touch with, you know, spirit or whatever you want to call it, and you'll be able to. To make, you know, better judgment calls in all realms of life, literally.

B (35:11)

Consecration is a spiritual journey.

A (35:13)

Oh yeah.

B (35:14)

It is a, I think, creation of any art form, but it's truly, truly an art form.

A (35:18)

100.

B (35:19)

What makes somebody trust a creator and keep coming back to that creator?

A (35:24)

A couple things I think if I had to distill what builds trust down to one single thing, it's your competence and your intention, right? It's like, do you know how to do the thing and can I trust you to actually teach me and you know, be integral and I think a lot of people are really good at the first, but not really good at the second. A lot of people can show competence. Here's how to, you know, scale from zero to million. But are you going to scam me when I send you money? You know what I mean? And I think a lot of people under index, and I love that, you know, some content creators are creating more content about this. Just, you know, one of my really good mentors, Caleb Ralston, talks about optimizing for trust, not views. And I think it's 100% true. Like, you want to build trust with your audience by showing that you're an integral person. Right. That you are a person of, of good judgment and somebody that won't, you know, take your money and run. And I think in, in a world where nobody is an info product newbie and everybody's gotten burned in the past, right. Where they bought a course and they got scammed, I think people are being extremely wary of buying stuff online. And I think it's even more important than five years ago to be a trustworthy person online. So I think if you, if I had to focus on one thing, it'd be those two things, like showing competence in your content and then that you're actually a good person.

B (36:42)

Yeah. I mean, I think having an easy low ticket that people can go and develop that trust with you is just, it's such an easy win.

A (36:50)

Yeah.

B (36:50)

If somebody gives you $5, $10, $50, they're way more likely to buy your real offer 100%. And in that, like, they're trusting you with their money now or just even like a freebie now, trusting you with their email, even like watching content. They. Content's not free. We think, oh, I'm putting out all this free information. It's not free. It's costing them 30 seconds of their time, a minute of their time, an hour of time to listen. And if they're not getting something out of it, if they're not learning something, if they're not taking something that they can then implement and get an ROI from, they're not going to trust you.

A (37:23)

No. Yeah. And they won't come back and watch the next thing, right?

B (37:26)

No, it's.

A (37:27)

Yeah, it is. I love that you mentioned the email stuff too, because it's like, yeah, 100%. Like, I, I have this belief that like, like all your CTA should be freebies and like, you should, you know, give in public, asking private, and, and that, I think, is a 100, a trust builder. It's like hey, I'm gonna give you a way to contact me, which is my email, and now you own my contact. And, and you know, if you honor that trust and you don't spam them with 18 emails in the first week, I think you'll start to build a really good brand.

B (37:52)

Okay. Give in public. Ask in private.

A (37:57)

Yeah.

B (37:58)

Okay, so you guys aren't doing any, like, direct sales publicly.

A (38:03)

If, if, if the naked eye looked at most of Dan's content, they would be a little bit confused if he sells anything at all. And I think that's a little bit by design. And you know, we reserve our, the right to change our mind in a way, but I think it's a really strong way to come into a market and just, I mean, give away every, Give away everything for free. Like, honestly, like all Dan's content is all his internal SOPs, and all we sell is coaching implementation. So it's not like, you know, any, anybody can't get results from just, you know, looking at Dan's content. But I, you know, truly believe that. I think most content creators would be. Have a better time building a strong brand if they just gave away as much as they could in public. And then when somebody expects you to ask, they just give more and then they ask in private. I think that is a really good way to build a strong brand.

B (38:53)

That's amazing. Yeah. Gary Vee says give a radical amount of value away for free. And I think that's incredible. Yeah, I mean, it's the same with my content. Like, people are like, oh, I can't afford to do level up on LinkedIn or to join your program or whatever. I'm like, you don't. You can just go listen to all my podcast episodes.

A (39:09)

It's all there.

B (39:10)

Go watch all my videos, read all my LinkedIn posts, and you'll find everything. You're not paying for the information. The information is publicly available. In fact, you can find all this information on ChatGPT on Google. But it's the implementation and obviously the coaching, the getting out of the stories that are keeping you from implementing. And I really think this is the future of monetizing personal brand. No one gives a fuck about the information. You know, it's all about implementation. Like my, my main offer. I tell people, like, here's your post idea for the day and we just, I'll, I'll go on mute for an hour. And they just write. But I'm holding the space for them to actually do it.

A (39:50)

Yeah.

B (39:50)

Because if, if free content worked for behavior for massive Behavior change. They, they wouldn't even be looking at your program.

A (39:58)

Oh, no. Everybody would be millionaires by now.

B (40:00)

Exactly, exactly. And also what's, what's interesting about this is people are paying for the, the time constriction or time acceleration to where, yes, I could go watch every single video Dan has ever done. But if I jump in the community, I'm now getting my questions asked directly. It's a more optimized signal to noise. I'm, I'm getting, I'm understanding it way faster and the timeline is collapsing.

A (40:27)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great.

B (40:30)

What do you see as the future of personal brand?

A (40:32)

I mean, it's, it's a scary future and it's a big reason why I started my personal brand because I wanted to get ahead of the curve. I think there's going to be a lot of AI and I don't know what that's going to look like. Like I said at the start of the pod, there's two outcomes. One is everything's AI, Nobody cares. The other one is everyone cares. And, you know, AI is somewhat suppressed and we have like the organic section that everybody goes into. That's more on the technical side. I think the, the, that's like the pessimistic side. The optimistic side is I think, think there's a lot of money right now being sucked away from traditional education. And you're seeing this with like college tuitions going down. And you can say what you want about that. I think that's a great thing.

B (41:15)

Did you go to college?

A (41:16)

I went to college for three weeks and I dropped out.

B (41:18)

So you don't seem like you went to college.

A (41:20)

You're like, that's the thing.

B (41:21)

That would have been like, that would have been such a waste of time.

A (41:24)

Yeah. The same four years that all my friends went to college, I was able to build the fastest growing personal brand.

B (41:29)

So it's like, that's college.

A (41:31)

Yeah, it's.

B (41:33)

What would you go to college for? Like marketing.

A (41:35)

I was, I was in there for business for three weeks and I'm like, I'm going to learn more doing business than learning about business. Yeah.

B (41:40)

Yeah. Instead of paying $100,000 to get an MBA, like working for Dan Martel, you would get. You're getting an MBA in like six months.

A (41:48)

Oh, yeah. Oh, literally. Yeah. I was, I knew more than my peers by the second. Yeah. Their second semester.

B (41:53)

I am so anti mba. It's so silly because all of these professors, like, have not actually started businesses.

A (41:59)

No.

B (41:59)

They just like theorize about business.

A (42:01)

It's so silly and they like it anyways. There's a lot of reasons why that doesn't work, like it or not. Yeah, there's, there's money getting pulled out of the traditional education system and I think it's going to move to the non traditional education system even more over the next, you know, five to six years. You've already seen this, right? Coaches used to not be a thing. Like literally 15 years ago you had like business coaches, but they were like super niche. Helped you with like one thing and you had like McKenzie with the consultants. We didn't really have like the ecosystem that we have today and I think that's even going to get bigger. Like I think the creator economy and the, you know, consulting economy over the next 5 to 10 years is going to 10x and I think that's the biggest opportunity that everybody listening to this could hop onto.

B (42:41)

Yeah, what I think is amazing about Personal brand is you can put yourself out there, you can share your art, your story, your business, your passion in ways that were completely inaccessible 10, 15, 20 years ago. Like you, you had to have a degree, you had to have a publisher, you had to have a movie studio. Like you had to have so go through so many gatekeepers to share the thing that you love. And now is truly the first time in all of human history anybody can do it with zero dollars. The, the, the gate, the gatekeeper. It's not a person, it's not a media company, it's not the platforms, it's not the money. It's literally your own fucking psyche of getting over the cringe. Have you felt the cringe?

A (43:24)

Oh yeah, 100. And it's funny because I posted Tik Tok videos in 2022. So I like kind of got over it because, you know, your friends like send you videos and like they would do like funny edits and stuff and like make fun of you. So I kind of went through that. But yeah, I think everybody listening, you know, obviously you're going to have a period of time where you're like, dude, I literally look like an idiot. But after you get over that hump of like, you know, being awkward on camera or like being nervous or whatever on the other side of you being able to be authentic, you know, even if a camera is recording or not. I think that's more interesting than anything else because when you get to be yourself on camera, then anything is possible. You could, you know, you know, the four Cs leverage, right? Content, code, collaboration and capital. Content is, you know, probably I think the most leverageable asset when it comes to getting impact. And so if you can turn on a camera and just be authentic and speak, you could be speaking to a room of one person, thousand people, 10,000 people, a million people. And you're gonna impact a ton of lives. So, yeah, just get over the cringe and, and just do it. Like, I don't know, I don't know what to tell people because I had those same beliefs and I, I had to go through years of like, thinking about it, doing it to actually move forward. But yeah, on the other side of you just taking action and doing the thing that's scary at first, you will 100% get to a place where it's easy.

B (44:42)

Those friends that like, made funny edits and kind of teased you, are they asking you for advice now?

A (44:47)

Oh, yeah.

B (44:48)

Yeah.

A (44:49)

Love you guys.

B (44:50)

They're like, hey,

A (44:53)

oh yeah, hey, how

B (44:54)

are you living this life?

A (44:56)

So, like, I get it like crabs in a bucket, right? If you, if one crabs getting out, you want to pull it down. And that's just human nature. And, you know, I was guilty of being that person when I was younger too, so I'm not. I don't blame them for being that person. But yeah, it is, it is funny. I think it's part of life. Like, like, I think everybody would be successful if it wasn't for that. And I think part of, you know, being an entrepreneur and being somebody that pushes the envelope is being that person that just, you know, says the norm. I'm gonna go try something. And on the other side of that, you create something magical.

B (45:25)

Do you think it's harder putting yourself out there being Canadian? I don't know anything about being Canadian, but I get so many messages like, I'm not from America and so we're not as bold as you guys are in the States.

A (45:38)

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, you know, stereotypes about Canadians, but I think we're definitely a little bit too nice sometimes. And we're definitely, you know, a lot, a lot of Canadians live in a tight knit community, smaller towns, whatever you want to call it, and we don't think as global as the US Right. Like, I love America and I love the American dream and I love, you know, all my American friends. And I wish that we had that in Canada where, where it's like we're literally the number one country, right? Like, you guys are really, like, we're number one and we can do anything American. And in Canada it's like, we're really nice and that's about it. You know what I mean? And, like, yeah, good.

B (46:11)

Hockey.

A (46:12)

Yeah, good. Good at hockey. Well, we got silver this time, so I'm a little upset about that.

B (46:16)

That's okay.

A (46:16)

Yeah.

B (46:17)

America's number one. So the. The culture is a little bit different to where maybe it's not the norm to be as out there as. As other people.

A (46:28)

Think globally. Like, I. I think globally, meaning, like,

B (46:33)

your clients could be global. You can speak globally. Okay.

A (46:35)

Yeah. Like, a lot of my Canadian friends have only Canadian clients and only, you know, take from the Canadian economy. And they never think to, like, get on a plane and go sell to someone in New York. And I think America is a beautiful place where you guys think, you know, within America, you guys have a huge economy, but then it's also, like, whenever you guys scale it in America, you're like, all right, I'm taking this to Europe. Australia. You guys just think globally first. And that's not something that comes naturally to a Canadian where it's like. Like, I want to be the biggest in Canada or I want to, you know, start a Canadian business. But it's like, I wish, you know, I wish we had a little bit more of that global expansion mindset.

B (47:12)

You're gonna make so much more money. I tell people all the time, like, if you're not from the States, just put, like, a random city in the states in your LinkedIn. You'll start getting clients there. Like, you live in Chicago or something. It doesn't matter if you do or not. You're not gonna go in their office, but you'll get a client. Every time you say Canadian business, I just think of Nathan Fielder.

A (47:31)

Yeah,

B (47:34)

the reference maybe is too old for you.

A (47:38)

I think so, Yeah. I feel bad. Everybody listening is gonna be like, oh, this guy's.

B (47:41)

There's this TV show, and the guy starts it by saying, like, I graduated from the top business school in Canada.

A (47:48)

What's the TV show name?

B (47:49)

Nathan for you?

A (47:50)

Oh, that's the name of the show. I'm gonna look it up.

B (47:52)

It's really funny. It's like, this guy seen it.

A (47:54)

I've probably seen it.

B (47:54)

Yeah. This guy goes and improves businesses, but in, like, really stupid ways who, like, bring in, like, strippers to a younger child.

A (48:02)

I gotta watch this show. It's like the Apprentice, but, like. It's like the Apprentice, but, like, worse. It's like bar rescue. But he actually makes it worse.

B (48:10)

Exactly. No, actually. But it improves just through something really stupid. It's really, really funny. Anyways, you should. You should Go watch it. Finally, last question. So somebody's walking away from this podcast. They're implementing one thing into their personal brand building strategy. What is that one thing? Besides following you, of course.

A (48:30)

Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say that you, you buried the lead, but yeah, follow me, follow my frameworks. And if I had to distill it down to one simple framework, it's hook, explain, L straight, teach. And if you, if anybody listening wants like my custom GPT to help them, like structure these. Cause I, you can literally put your topic in and I'll spit out like 25 validated ideas.

B (48:48)

Texting you right now.

A (48:49)

Yeah, just custom GPT. Yeah. Well, message me the word. I think it's like topic. And then message me topic, Courtney, because I'll know that they came from your podcast and I'll send over the link to the custom GPT again. You just drop like your niche in and it gives you, it gives you like 25 validated topics and just start ripping like on the other side of you, like having those ideas and you have like your hook. You have your explanation, you have your illustration, you have your lesson. Just practice doing the dance. And in that doing the dance, you will learn more than, you know. Looking, watching another podcast, you know, looking at another video, watching another career do a thing. Because I do think, you know, once you do it, you understand it more than just listening to me talk about doing it. And that, that was 100 true for me. Like, I was listening to all these, like, you know, creators on like, here's how to create content. Here's a hook. Here's the thing. Until I actually did it, I tested it and then I created my own frameworks because I'm like, oh, you know, this works for like most people, but not, you know, this type of person. And then I kind of distilled it. Distilled, distill it. So, yeah, I think everybody listening could go do the hook, explain, L straight, teach, or at least shoot a video on your phone, post it. Even if you don't want to follow my framework, that's totally fine. But yeah, just take action.

B (49:56)

Yeah, don't go to business school. Create a business. Don't overthink content. Watch everyone's content. Just go make content and you'll learn. But it's actually really important. What you said that some things don't work for everyone. Like, that is so true. Depending on your country, your culture, your industry, your topic, some things do. There's many things that are not universal. So every single tip that you're getting Go test it out on yourself. Go make that same format or video or whatever 10 times. If you try 10 different things every single day, you're gonna have so much volume that's gonna tell you exactly what works for you or your audience. It's truly so different for everyone. So test out what works for you. Oh my God, it's like so annoying. People like, what time of day do I post? I'm like, just go fucking post 100 times and your analytics will tell you.

A (50:42)

Yeah, you'll see one. Anyways, I love that question because it's literally like the, the most. Like, it's, it's whenever people are most active and it's like it's different for every single creator.

B (50:52)

No, and different for your time zone and different for. I call those procrastination questions because usually people don't actually want an answer.

A (50:59)

No. Yeah. They're like, they just want to hear that it's not what they want and exactly not do it.

B (51:04)

Like, oh man. Okay. I. I don't know if the screen can see this, but I. I've set topic.

A (51:09)

Topic. Courtney. Yeah, I should. I'll set up the Many chat automation and it'll. It'll send it over.

B (51:13)

Okay. I'm just gonna write topic because. No, maybe we're gonna fix your Many Chat. Many Chat's a sponsor. We love them.

A (51:22)

Let's go.

B (51:23)

Okay, Sam, where can everybody find you?

A (51:25)

Yeah, Sam dogged it on Instagram. Yeah, I've got a ton of podcasts on YouTube too. Yeah. Looking forward to listening, you know, reading your DMs and get giving a lot more value.

B (51:37)

I love it. Amazing. And also we're all gonna go and use all your videos as our SOP piece.

A (51:42)

Heck yeah. Appreciate it. Appreciate it.

B (51:44)

Well, thank you so much, Sam.

A (51:45)

I appreciate. Courtney, you asked the best questions. I appreciate you love it.

B (51:49)

I do have an ask for you guys before we go. If this podcast has benefited you in any way, if you have gotten a tip that you've really loved and you've implemented it, if it's given you some sort of inspiration, if it's given you some sort of motivation or clarity, my ask is that you leave a five star review. I would appreciate it so much. It helps spread the message, it really helps the show grow, and it helps more people get access to this information. My deepest desire is on gatekeeping. Shit. I want to un gatekeep information. So anybody that desires to build a personal brand, to build a business, to create this success in their life and to live their dream, I want them to have all of the information. And I don't hold shit back on the show. Okay, we are not holding shit back. So in order to get this message to more people, in order to get these resources and tips for to more people, your reviews go a long way. I appreciate you so much. Thank you.