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Built in Public
How to Build a Personal Brand That Makes Money BEFORE You Feel Ready, with Ruffin Mitchener
00:47:00
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- [00:00]
A
I think building anything, you just have to live through that cringe. And it might be a few years of cringe. That's okay because it opens up these like epic opportunities. But you just have to kind of be like, I don't really care what the haters think.
- [00:11]
B
It's also like, do you want to work at Deloitte forever? If somebody wants to work for me, I'm Googling them. If they have no digital footprint, I'm completely ignoring them. Like, I feel like, who's that?
- [00:20]
A
Totally. It's like the new version of the resume. My first post that went viral was talking about spending like $200,000 on an MBA at UCLA just to be in like a totally virtual experience. That's like absurd, but also like, I
- [00:34]
B
was actually talking to Stanford graduate students last week. But it's crazy because these are people that are like 30, under 30, they raised millions of dollars, are doing the craziest research, and they feel not qualified enough. They're like, well, when I finish my PhD, then I'll start posting. The truth is, if you wait until you feel confident, like you feel like I'm finally qualified, you'll be waiting forever. Welcome to Built In Public. I am your host, Courtney Johnson. I've been a full time content creator and a personal brand strategist for seven years. And I really built my career sharing process. Not just the outcomes of personal brand Built In Public is about what it actually looks like to build a brand, a business, and to build real leverage in the creator economy. We're talking strategy, systems, audience growth, monetization, and that uncomfortable middle ground between. I have an idea and this is actually working. I'll be sharing what I'm testing, what's working, what's not, and I'm going to be bringing on people who are building their careers and companies out loud too. If you want honest conversations, practical insight and zero bs, you are in the right place. Let's build in public. Ruffin, welcome. Hi.
- [01:38]
A
Thanks for having me.
- [01:39]
B
I'm so happy to be here in LA and to chat with you.
- [01:43]
A
So excited. I mean, I know. I feel like the last time I saw you was in Austin, south by Southwest, like two, three years ago in the early days of our content journeys.
- [01:52]
B
And now we're like technically co workers. Can we call ourselves coworkers?
- [01:55]
A
We are. I think the Smooth team would be very excited to hear that.
- [02:00]
B
Yeah. We have the same brand agency.
- [02:03]
A
Yes.
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B
It's been great.
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A
And I'm a new mom. And you're about to be.
- [02:06]
B
I know.
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A
And our due Dates are days apart, which is crazy.
- [02:10]
B
It's absolutely crazy. Like, pregnancy as an entrepreneur is a wild fucking ride.
- [02:16]
A
It's a wild ride. But I feel like there's benefits of being an entrepreneur, at least that I found being a type B person. Like, I feel like you have to do that as a parent because you kind of just like, take things as they come and you just have to figure it out.
- [02:29]
B
Yeah.
- [02:30]
A
On the fly. And that's kind of the energy I've put towards motherhood.
- [02:34]
B
I also feel like with entrepreneurship, you're just, like, cut down so much and you fail so much and you face rejection so much and you come up against problems every single day that, like, when I'm coming up against problems in my pregnancy, I have the tools to move through them with, like, positivity or creating a plan around them rather than, like, wallowing in them. And I feel like I learned that from entrepreneurship.
- [02:56]
A
Totally. Lots of that going on. Lots in our house.
- [03:00]
B
Yeah, it's gonna be. It's gonna be great. So, yeah, we were talking a little bit before we started rolling about batching content and prepping content for pregnancy is. That was something I didn't really think about. And I got pregnant on accident. So I was like, I didn't plan, Like, I didn't plan ahead. Right.
- [03:19]
A
Figuring things out on the fly.
- [03:20]
B
Yeah, exactly. But again, entrepreneurship. So we're here to talk about personal brand. I would love to hear more about your personal brand. So you have a pretty traditional background. Tell us about that.
- [03:32]
A
Yeah, so I started in probably like, the most traditional corporate job setting. I studied accounting in college and then was an auditor with Deloitte. So very, very corporate setting. From there, I quickly realized, like, this is not for me. I come from a family of entrepreneurs and was really interested always in, like, starting my own business. One day made the move out to LA about, I guess almost seven years ago now, which is pretty crazy.
- [03:58]
B
Where did you move from?
- [04:00]
A
I moved from New York. I did one year in New York with Deloitte and then moved out to California to join an early stage fintech company. They were Andreessen Horowitz backed. They had just raised a series A round of funding and was really curious about this, like, democratization of investing in real estate. And so we were building a platform for that. And then from there went back to ucla, again following this, like, very traditional work path, from Deloitte to working in startups to back to the mba. And I went into UCLA originally thinking I wanted to start something in the consumer fintech space myself. My experience ended up being completely virtual. I got into Anderson March 2020, like the week that LA shut down for Covid and like at that point everyone was like, oh, this is going to be like a two week thing. Like, you know, we could have never obviously anticipated that we would be shut down for, I don't know, like a year or so, which was crazy. And so I ended up moving forward with my mba, but it was a completely virtual experience. Like, I don't think I went onto campus until maybe the second year, like the second and like the second half of that year because LA was so strict. But anyways, so I was exploring building a business while I was at school and Basically, you know, TikTok was having that like crazy rise. I feel like we were all at home just like watching like the Banana Bread videos. My algorithm was more dialed into the founders that were basically building their businesses in public and like using TikTok kind of as that like, first creator led business. J Hoovy from Stan is like one of the first creators I ever remember watching this, do this and realized that basically content creation, building audiences, building communities around what you're doing, building in public was really going to be the future of business. And so that's what first inspired me to get on TikTok. I had no background in social media and I was like, I have to learn how to do this if I, you know, want to build something one day.
- [06:04]
B
Yeah. So you saw the future. You saw, okay, this is something that people are doing to get attention for their product or their service or their startup. And you realize, like, not only is this going to be a cool marketing technique, but this actually might become mandatory.
- [06:18]
A
Yeah, totally. And I mean, I think that's what we're seeing now. And it's, it's funny because at the time I think, like, probably a lot of my classmates thought what I was doing was pretty weird. And I had some like, even job interviews right out of school to work in B.C. and like, I kind of got laughed out of the rooms. But like now you see like people from these like crazy institutions. Like, I saw a video on Instagram yesterday about one of the C suite execs at Blackstone who's doing running videos and talking about what he's seeing in the market today and how that is like blowing up on LinkedIn. And I think, like, all these very like, incredible business leaders now understand that this is really the future of business and marketing.
- [06:57]
B
Yeah, totally. I was, I started my career as a ghostwriter for executives for tech founders and executives. And I would go straight mainly on LinkedIn, a little bit on Twitter. And this was back in 2016 and 17. And I remember having sales calls and people just thinking I was so weird and this was so crazy. And they were like, what, you want me to be some sort of, like, influencer celebrity? Because when it came to business influencers back then, it was like the here's my Ferraris in the car YouTube ads type like, I'm gambling with all these women vibes. Like, that was the only example of business creators, really. And now it's like, yeah, it's mandatory. So what I think is interesting, I'm curious your thoughts on this is like, even if somebody doesn't want to start their company right now, maybe they're getting their MBA to start to build an audience right now, by the time you do launch, even if it's. That's in three years, four years, five years, to have an audience, not only to get customers, but to recruit, to get funding is so freaking valuable.
- [07:59]
A
And I've seen founders that I've invested in have huge success doing this. And even if you don't want to do videos, like, even to your point, like writing on LinkedIn, one company I invested in, a Linea Invest, you may have seen them all over TikTok. Eve and Adam are the founders. They've just had huge success sharing their story, especially on LinkedIn, but also some on TikTok as well, for attracting, again, not only their customers, which TikTok has been obviously an incredible channel for that, but their investors on LinkedIn. And also they've recruited a ton of teammates to their team just by, like, really sharing their story and building in public. So it's. It's pretty incredible to watch.
- [08:39]
B
It's amazing. And you don't even need a ton of followers. Like, if I. If somebody wants to work for me, I'm Googling them. If they have no digital footprint, I'm completely ignoring them. Like, I feel like, who's that? Exactly. They have like a, you know, they have no Instagram profile picture and it's private and there's like two posts they've never posted on LinkedIn. I don't care if you have followers, but if I see that you have a substack and you talk about your cooking hobby every week, and I can at least learn something about you, you are so much more likely to actually get to the next step and have a conversation. So I think also for candidates to totally.
- [09:12]
A
It's. I mean, I think I've seen a lot of People talk about this online. It's like the new version of the resume. So it's like, how much can like a one sheet piece of paper really tell you about something about someone? So, like having kind of. Even if it's just like your digital presence on LinkedIn, not even much beyond that can really be helpful.
- [09:32]
B
Yeah. I think like, minimum go post on LinkedIn like once a month, literally just a quick update on your world. And even that will give somebody context about you. They're going to be able to like, suss out your vibe, see what you're interested in. But you don't have to drop everything and become an influencer unless you want to.
- [09:47]
A
It is a fun world and it opens a lot of opportunities. But to your point, I mean, I even started writing on LinkedIn. I think that's like I always say that's a good first step one to understand, like, what are people resonating and like, resonating within your content and like, what do you want to be saying with your content and your personal brand? So I think writing can just be a much less intimidating place to start.
- [10:11]
B
Yeah. Than making videos.
- [10:12]
A
That can be a lot scarier. Yeah.
- [10:14]
B
Yeah. Even if it's like your burner Twitter account from like 2013, like just post somewhere. Do you remember your first post?
- [10:21]
A
My first post? I don't remember my first post, but it was probably something around being. I can tell you, my first post that went viral. I do remember that one. My first post that went viral was talking about spending like $200,000 on an MBA at UCLA just to be in like a totally virtual experience. And I think that went viral because one that's like, just absurd. But also, like, I think people resonated with and wanted to learn more about being at ucla. And so that kind of is what made me realize, oh, I should talk more about business school, talk more about being at this, like, very trusted institution like ucla. And so, yeah, that was my first post that kind of took off.
- [11:02]
B
Did you have any limiting beliefs or fears that came up as you're posting that, especially as you started getting visibility?
- [11:08]
A
Yeah, I feel like, like lots of limiting beliefs. I feel like in the world of content and also in investing too, I'm always like, oh, I feel like I need to, like, know everything. Like, if I'm like teaching people kind of what I'm learning, it almost feels like, oh, I should have all the answers. But I think what I've even realized working in startups before being in content, like, no one has all of the answers. And so now my content, I just try and think about it, like, okay, let's just like, share what I'm learning. And like, I'm a few steps ahead of some people and that should be valuable and helpful to folks. Like, I don't need to know everything because that's literally impossible.
- [11:46]
B
Yeah, I think a lot of people think. I was actually talking to Stanford graduate students last week.
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A
I saw that.
- [11:53]
B
It was so fun. But it's crazy because these are people that are like 30, under 30, they raise millions of dollars, are doing the craziest research. I mean, there's some of the smartest, most impactful people in our world, and they feel not qualified enough. They're like, well, when I finish my PhD, then I'll start posting. Well, when I finish med school, well, when I finally get this other double degree, then I'll start posting. And the truth is, if you wait until you feel confident, like you feel like I'm finally qualified, you'll be waiting for other forever. Like, the goal is not to be as qualified as possible. The goal is to teach people two steps behind you.
- [12:27]
A
Totally. And I think it just comes back to that, being authentic and being like, I, hey, I don't know everything, but here's what I have learned and like, here's how I'm thinking about things. So that's how I always try and frame kind of the content and how I'm sharing things.
- [12:40]
B
You were also really one of the first in your industry.
- [12:44]
A
Yeah, there's been like, I feel like in the early days of TikTok, a few of us in this kind of like startup VC investor space. And so. And now I feel like a lot of VCs like I mentioned, are really trying to get into this world, which has been interesting. But yeah, I was very inspired by personal finance creators and saw this kind of as like a niche step I could take into the world of venture and angel investing.
- [13:08]
B
So you're familiar with the venture space. You are an angel investor. What advice would you give to a startup founder wanting to start raising money when building their personal brand?
- [13:18]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think the number one thing about raising money as a founder is that it really all comes back to relationships with investors. And so, I mean, if you're starting from nowhere, I think it's just always good to start building those relationships early. Also, you can use content to kind of like share your story, get attention from investors, which can be like this interesting flywheel. And again, like, I've seen founders really do interesting things with that. Again, like that team Olani and Mes that I mentioned, they've just created a ton of hype around what they're building, and that's been very attractive to venture investors. And so it's really just getting out there, building those relationships super early, even if it's like two years before you ever want to build anything, ever want to fundraise anything. And then also just again, back to your point of, like, having a presence online and like, kind of showing what you stand for, whether that's in video or on LinkedIn, I think every VC is going to go kind of check out and dig into what you're doing behind the scenes. So I think it's important to kind of build that presence early on.
- [14:24]
B
I've had a few people come through level up on LinkedIn or we've had conversations about level up on LinkedIn, which is my LinkedIn cohort from the big four consulting space. And they've told me, like, well, no, Courtney, you don't get it. It's actually, like, not cool. And it's looked down upon. If you post on LinkedIn, like, is that true? They're saying, like, we don't, like, you'll see him as a try hard.
- [14:44]
A
Yeah, I mean, I was not doing content at Deloitte, so I, like, can't speak specifically, but my, my response to that would be like, who cares? Like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I just don't really care what anyone else thinks. Like, I think if you want to build anything, whether it's a personal brand or building a business that I like, share this with my founders all the time too. Because I think there's like this hesitation around, like, I don't want to create content because it's cringe or whatever. Like, I think building anything, you just have to live through that cringe. And it might be a few years of cringe. And like, that's okay because it opens up these, like, epic opportunities. But you just have to kind of be like, I don't really care what the haters think.
- [15:25]
B
It's also like, do you want to work at Deloitte forever? Okay, like, totally. You could do that. But yeah, I've just heard that a few times. I'm like, I don't know if that's true. Like, I feel like it may also,
- [15:36]
A
like, at least in the corporate world, I feel like a lot of these companies have seen kind of like the downsides of their employees creating content, which is a bummer. So I feel like some of these bigger companies do have, like, restrictions on it. So my only advice would be like be careful about what you are posting to make sure you're not going to get like fired.
- [15:54]
B
Yeah.
- [15:54]
A
Because I mean, I'm sure you understand, like it takes a while to like build this into like a real business. Like I wouldn't want to like have one post go viral and then like lose my job and have no plans for income.
- [16:06]
B
Yeah, totally. I mean there's like safe topics you can talk about. Like typically when, when somebody's working in a more like conservative industry, I tell them to tell their boss, like, oh, it's my goal to inspire young women to get into finance or something. And then your boss can't say shit about it. Like it's a really good place to start is I want to inspire the type of person that I was and you know, share your career path.
- [16:27]
A
Like, but I'm hoping, and I think we are seeing more and more of these companies like understand that there's like huge value on this. Like I've seen some like startups even on LinkedIn be like we're running like this competition for all of our employees and like whoever gets the most viral posts in a month like gets some kind of like compensation bonus, which is really interesting to see. And then you see companies like Sofi bringing in like Vivian too as like I forgot her, her exact title but like a chief strategy content officer or something like that. So I mean I think companies are starting to understand when it's done in the right way. Of course there's like a huge value
- [17:04]
B
in it and so many people, so many companies hiring like full time ghostwriters or full time creators for their executives or for their founders.
- [17:12]
A
Yep.
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B
Which is really, really cool to see.
- [17:14]
A
And I do think like especially, and I've like advised some of my founders around this too. Like I think especially when you're getting started as a founder founder or an executive or an investor. Do you think it's like worth making an investment to hire a ghostwriter or consultant? I know like Story Arb is a new business that's I believe, doing a bunch of this and then from there you can kind of like learn and understand from that agency like how to create content. And then if you want to bring it in house, you can do it in house. But I also think there's a lot of value in working with kind of content creator experts as well.
- [17:48]
B
What are some of the mistakes that you've made in building your personal brand?
- [17:52]
A
That's a good question. I feel like the biggest mistake I've Made or I guess like maybe like the biggest hurdle for me, especially as I've like grown, my brand has been caring a little bit too much about what other people think. And I think that just comes with like, now that I've built an audience and maybe you feel this too. Like, I feel like there's more eyes on me these days, so I'm a little bit more conscious and like thoughtful about what I'm creating and posting. And sometimes that can create like some mental roadblocks in my content creation. Whereas like back in the day, like when I first started creating content, I think the first like 90 days I was doing like three to five posts a day, like something crazy and like just throwing things out there, which I think is just more fun and kind of opens up some more creativity. So I think overthinking things has been a bit of a struggle in the recent days.
- [18:45]
B
Yeah, I feel that too. Like when you're starting out, you don't have anything to lose. But now I'm like, I have employee of payroll. Like I got to be brand friendly. You know, I want to go 100%, I want to go unhinged. But you can't really do that. I'll go unhinged on other places. My private story goes unhinged.
- [19:02]
A
You know, I need to do more of that.
- [19:05]
B
And it's fun. Yeah. Okay. So caring what other people think, like once you get to a point where the stakes are higher.
- [19:11]
A
Totally.
- [19:12]
B
You gotta start being mindful.
- [19:14]
A
Yeah.
- [19:14]
B
I mean, maybe you don't. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe that's a fear. I don't know. I think we could, we could go a little crazy.
- [19:20]
A
True.
- [19:21]
B
And what does your support look like with content creation?
- [19:24]
A
Honestly, up until this year I was doing everything on my own except for the management team. So started working with management for the first time ever about a year ago, which has been just like an incredible unlock for, you know, smooth. Helps me like think about the strategy beyond just like the content and many avenues. And then obviously they've just been amazing in terms of like bringing in deal, part brand deal partners and like really boosting the revenue on that side of the business. And then this year I've also brought on a part time EA who kind of helps me really throughout my life. It's a company called Sundays. They work with working moms, so they'll do anything from like personal life to like anything dealing with your kids to. My EA also helps me like with my content scheduling reposting and then also helps me run my community at Bridge Club. So she's kind of like putting her toes in every piece of the business, which is nice.
- [20:19]
B
Wow. Yeah. So first management. I mean, a lot of people reach out to me asking how they start getting brand deals. I think management is the easiest way.
- [20:28]
A
Totally. I started brand deals by like pitching myself, which I do think was incredible to do. I probably did that for a year before I ever worked with management. And so like, I really got to understand like the ins and outs of this. I read every contract I did. I pitched everyone just like cold. Either on Instagram or LinkedIn, I would find brands that were like running campaigns by just like looking at other creators and my niche and be like, oh, they're activating right now. They must have campaign budget. Let me see if I can reach someone with that company. Like TurboTax is a deal that I landed myself and has now become an annual deal for me, which is super cool. But yeah, I think kind of doing it myself at first was incredible because now I know, you know, what questions to ask, what things to look for and like, kind of like the different players involved, like there's like agencies, but then there's also the managers and then there's the actual brand. Like there's a lot of layers going on, but now it's just amazing to actually work with a management team.
- [21:26]
B
Yeah. And for those listening, there are so many different types of managers. Typically they'll take 20%, I think actually some people might take up to 30%, but there's so many different types. There's management for fashion influencers, for micro influencers, for mega influencers, for geography based influencers. So many different niches in the management space. And it's really great because it can take a lot of the outreach, a lot of the strategy, the negotiation off your plate. And what I found, I've. I've had three different management teams over the last like five years and in every single one of them, they're going to negotiate up that 20% difference pretty, pretty easily. So when you were initially sending these messages to Cold Outreach, what did those messages look like?
- [22:12]
A
I would normally keep them, like pretty short and sweet just because I also get a good amount of inbound as an investor and like, I feel like you just have to find a way to like get someone's attention quickly. So saying things like, hey, I'm rough and I am a creator with 200k across my channels. I create content on empowering women in the world of startups and venture capital. I've worked with these brands like Gusto, LinkedIn I'd love to see if there's a way we can partner and I can support your team. So, like kind of coming out of a place of like, I want to help you and your team win and then kind of putting those logos in there to get someone's attention and like show that. I've worked with some legit brands in the past and again, just keeping it short and sweet and making it kind of easy for people to either get back to me or not. And I mean, I probably pitched hundreds of people and like got a lot of people ghosting me. And that's okay. And that's just part of all part of it.
- [23:09]
B
So the strategy is we see other creators posting about a brand. So you're already, you're kind of ignoring the brands that don't have budget and aren't actively. Because that's gonna be like a whole thing of they're gonna have to go to their boss and then that's gonna be.
- [23:22]
A
And I went down that path a few times especially because in the early days I feel like. And you may have also felt this, like B2B tech budgets weren't necessarily like a big thing probably four or five years ago. And so like, I would kind of pitch some of these companies that like, may want to tap into like, especially like the investing world. And they're just like, they're curious about Influencer, but like, they haven't like, you know, sold their C suite on it. There aren't actually budgets there. And so, you know, you can try, but it's just a lot, lot harder of a sell. And so I realized, okay, these let me like go after the companies that are actually deploying budget and take it from there. It's just a much easier sell.
- [24:07]
B
Yeah. Instead of, instead of selling someone on why influencer marketing. They're already sold on Influencer marketing. You're just selling them on YouTube and especially in our space, like there's not a lot of creators.
- [24:18]
A
Yes, there's really. No, no, there's not.
- [24:20]
B
There's not. So it's great. Okay, so you see what other creators, what brands other creators are working with you maybe make a list of these. You reach out just on social media. You say, hey, I would love to help you because you're positioning as like, I'm doing you a favor. And I've worked with these brands. Is there any opportunity and I assume from there they'd maybe give you like an email address or something and email
- [24:41]
A
address or sometimes I try and get folks on a call like, I Think people love especially to talk to you as a creator. Other people don't like to do that because they're managing so many creators. They just don't have time to do that. But I think anytime you can talk face to face with someone. And I also think it was nice that I was doing that because I also started to build a bit of a network with these people working in these companies. And I would typically go to LinkedIn, find the company, find whoever worked in influencer marketing, and then if I had a second or a mutual connection or some kind of, hey, maybe they, like, went to ucla. Like, if there was any kind of connection like that, I would also mention it in. Oh, that's.
- [25:17]
B
Yeah, yeah. Having a little. Doing a little stalking.
- [25:20]
A
Yes, yes. We love a LinkedIn.
- [25:22]
B
Or like, we both live in LA.
- [25:24]
A
Exactly, exactly.
- [25:25]
B
Beautiful. We love a LinkedIn stock. This hack is really good to do if you want to get free from brands, just search the hashtag gifted on social media.
- [25:35]
A
I haven't done.
- [25:35]
B
Look at the hauls. Like, here's my beauty haul. And you can message all those brands because again, they're already sending.
- [25:41]
A
I did do this for a wearable breast pump because I was like, I don't want to spend this much on something I might not use that often, but that was the one gifted item I really wanted.
- [25:51]
B
Wait, that's so smart. I've been hesitant to ask for gifted items for pregnancy, but I have a friend that literally has not spent a dime because she's just like, my stroller, my car seat, like, everything.
- [26:03]
A
I hit up a few other brands. Like, I really wanted an artipop carrier, but they were, like, no gifted campaigns, so we bought one.
- [26:12]
B
Yeah. Maybe I'll start making a list. But it is fun to get.
- [26:15]
A
Get that stroller gift.
- [26:16]
B
The stroller gets good.
- [26:17]
A
Strollers are not cheap.
- [26:19]
B
No.
- [26:19]
A
Yeah.
- [26:20]
B
Oh, my gosh. The way I haven't bought anything.
- [26:22]
A
Oh. I bought it like, all, like, a month before in the boxes that are gonna show up at your house. My husband, like, hated me.
- [26:29]
B
I just made my registry, like, yesterday.
- [26:31]
A
Nice.
- [26:31]
B
I feel like everyone else is way ahead of me, but, you know, it's okay.
- [26:35]
A
It all comes together.
- [26:36]
B
It literally all comes together.
- [26:37]
A
You got plenty of time.
- [26:39]
B
Okay, so brand deals and then your team. So you only have one person on your team, and this is an assistant.
- [26:43]
A
Yeah.
- [26:43]
B
Whoa.
- [26:44]
A
Yeah.
- [26:44]
B
You're doing a lot.
- [26:45]
A
I just brought on an advisor to help me with bridge club, the investing community I run. Yeah, really kind of like been boots on the ground in the nitty Gritty doing it myself. But I'm starting to invest in other team members this. This year and like some kind of like contractors as well. I'm diving back into long form myself so bringing back my podcast. So of course like editors and like a whole team will kind of come in on that side of things. What else am I investing in? I think that's really the main. I'd love to find a short form video editor. I've tried. I. I feel like we're all looking, I know. For people and they just. I don't know where they are.
- [27:25]
B
Right. If you want to make a lot of money right now, literally learn short form editing. Well, literally.
- [27:30]
A
It's crazy. I tried so many and I just. I just can't find someone. That's great.
- [27:36]
B
Same. I don't, I don't know. I haven't found a rock star of short form editing, but I know other people have rock stars. This is like one thing that people gatekeep.
- [27:43]
A
No, I do because like, like they need to keep their people, which I get.
- [27:48]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I've never. I'm like very anti gatekeeping. But now I'm like, I get it.
- [27:53]
A
Yeah.
- [27:53]
B
Like I. If I found someone, I would get.
- [27:56]
A
My least favorite thing to do is editing videos. But it's just part of it.
- [28:01]
B
I actually need someone to come over to my house and be like sit down and film. And then it goes up. Like I'll come up with the content ideas, but I just need.
- [28:08]
A
But this is my problem. Like every time I want to get an editor, I can't get ahead of my videos. Like I'm someone that just like films, edits and posts that day often. I feel like you are so much better about being organized and like batching content and schedule.
- [28:23]
B
Not organized. My team is organized.
- [28:25]
A
Like maybe I just need the right team.
- [28:26]
B
Exactly.
- [28:27]
A
To force me.
- [28:28]
B
Yes. Like I will just record random stuff and send it and then I know like my team is putting out at least three posts per week. So like if I forget or I'm traveling or something, it's not that big of a deal because I know something is going out.
- [28:41]
A
Yeah.
- [28:42]
B
And that's definitely helpful because it's not like all following falling on me. But you, you have so much you can repurpose.
- [28:48]
A
Yeah, I also repurpose so much. I don't do enough of that.
- [28:52]
B
Yeah. Like if post performed well, repurpose it five times.
- [28:55]
A
Yeah.
- [28:56]
B
You know, or just like rerecord the same thing and post it again. I feel like all my content is the same now like I post the same like 5 posts over and over.
- [29:02]
A
I mean, if they work, they work.
- [29:04]
B
Exactly. If they work, they work. That's so cool. Okay, so in your content creation, I know you do investing and some other things, but in content creation your is your only source of monetization brand deals.
- [29:16]
A
Yes, that's been the primary is what I will say. I also this year, well, through Bridge Club, I basically launched a cohort on angel investing. And so it's a four part series. We meet for a month and walk through like basically how to write your first angel investment with as little as a thousand dollars. And so was running that kind of just offline, but I've just gotten on Maven to run that on that platform. So that will be a new, bigger, hopefully source of revenue this year.
- [29:47]
B
Have you. So that's not launched yet, you're just getting set up.
- [29:50]
A
Yeah.
- [29:50]
B
Cool. Maven is really great.
- [29:51]
A
I'm excited and I love Mallory who runs, I believe growth there.
- [29:55]
B
Yeah, you're going to do great. I think I probably make an extra like 100 or 200k a year from Maven.
- [30:02]
A
Wow.
- [30:02]
B
It's definitely solid. Yeah.
- [30:04]
A
Nice.
- [30:04]
B
Yeah.
- [30:05]
A
Yeah. Huge potential there. And I see that kind of as basically with Bridge Club, it's an annual membership to get access to the deal flow and investing and kind of like the group diligence. And so I see that as kind of a good inbound lead generation for the annual Bridge club membership.
- [30:23]
B
So often Maven does a really good job of like promoting your stuff too. For those that don't know, Maven is a really cool platform to host a course on which technically not courses or cohorts because they're live. Yes.
- [30:35]
A
I feel like that's the key.
- [30:36]
B
Yes, exactly. And it kind of feels like a college class. Like the way it's set up, the interface, even how they market it. It's supposed to be around continuing education. And then what's also cool about Maven is companies are more likely to pay for their employees to do Maven, so.
- [30:51]
A
Interesting.
- [30:52]
B
Yeah. Since it is professional development rather than just like it's courses. Right.
- [30:57]
A
And they give you like a certificate.
- [30:59]
B
Exactly. Certificate. I've had quite a lot of people. Yeah. Work with their teams or ask their boss and their boss is like, yeah, I'll give you like $1,000 for this. Of course. Or I mean many companies have continuing education budgets for each person and Maven has so many resources that you can send to your boss. Like Maven, will it like write an email for your boss?
- [31:19]
A
Wait, this is I honestly didn't even know about this. I still need to do, like, their onboard workshop.
- [31:25]
B
Yeah, Like, I skipped it.
- [31:27]
A
Okay.
- [31:27]
B
I just, like, I just need to,
- [31:29]
A
like, ask you all my questions.
- [31:30]
B
Yeah, but that is. That is a good one.
- [31:32]
A
Such a good hack. I'm gonna look into that.
- [31:34]
B
I think that could be. That could be really cool. And they're. Yeah, their whole, like, webinar thing is cool. It's just like they have their own kind of built in audience and they have their own repeated customers that they take a Maven course every month or every quarter or whatever. So it's just great to have.
- [31:50]
A
People are just so sick of the recorded classes. No one wants to, like, sit at home and like, watch some, like, recording. Like, people want to, like, come engage, ask questions, live, even learn from like the other students in the course and like, kind of hear about their experiences too. And it's like a cool new way to meet people too.
- [32:07]
B
Yeah, I agree. It's super cool. Some people on Maven do have recorded aspects, but it's like there's a live component discussion or something on top of it. But for anybody listening to this, that's creating a course. I haven't bought a recorded course in like three years because I'm like, it's irrelevant. Like, I. I need to show up to a Zoom live if I'm gonna get anything.
- [32:25]
A
Totally. And I feel like Maven's an interesting way instead of doing like, paying. I feel like on Intro, for example, you can pay like 500 for like 30 minutes with like an expert. And it's like, what are you gonna get out of like a conversation for 30 minutes with someone? So like, Maven's like this interesting way to democratize access to kind of like these group almost coaching sessions in a way.
- [32:47]
B
What other tools are you using?
- [32:50]
A
Like, in my content generation business, like,
- [32:53]
B
anything that's a favorite, especially content creation.
- [32:56]
A
Well, for content creation, at least on editing, I do a mix of Cap Cut and Descript, which I hate that I use two tools. But, like, that's just kind of the flow I'm in these days. So those are the main tools. And then I'm really into Claude Cowork these days. I'm going very deep into that stuff, which has been fun. And I'm doing this whole series around kind of the things I'm building on there and how it's like supporting my business and opening up whole new things I didn't even know were possible. I don't know. Have you gotten on there yet?
- [33:27]
B
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm mainly using it because I don't like going through a bunch of slack to, like, finding things in my email to contextualize what's happening. And so I probably use it a couple times a day just to be like, can you give me a brief on this person, why we talk, who's the main point of contact, vibes about them, when I should be there, like, all of that type of stuff. But that's as far as I've gotten.
- [33:51]
A
Yep.
- [33:51]
B
But it is really helpful.
- [33:52]
A
There's, like, so many things. Like, even to prepare for this podcast, I was like, I obviously listened to some of your recent episodes, but I was like, okay, why don't I have Claude cowork go to Courtney's channel? Basically, like, listen to the. Maybe, like the 20 past episode. I forget exactly what I told it. And then it pulled out some of the common themes and questions that you've been asking. What? Oh, my gosh, I need to know, Literally. And I feel like you can even do that. Like, if there's like. If you're just. If you want to get into content creation and you're like, what's the strategy here? Like, I've seen other creators basically show how they're using Claude to, like, stock creator accounts. So, like, tell Claude cowork to go look at, like, these three Instagram profiles. Pull out, like, how often are they posting? Like, what are the common hooks that are working for them? And so, like, you can use it as basically a strategy business partner.
- [34:42]
B
Whoa. Okay, so questions that you would ask a social media strategist, you can add cloud coworker.
- [34:47]
A
Exactly.
- [34:48]
B
How do you. This might be a silly question, but how do you get it to, like, actually, like, does it log into your LinkedIn or, like, your Instagram?
- [34:54]
A
Yeah. You have a Google Chrome extension, and I believe it does that through that.
- [35:01]
B
I feel like my biggest blocker with cloud cowork is like, I can't access that link. I'm like, access it, bitch. Yeah, like, figure out a way.
- [35:07]
A
I think. I think I've done it through the. Like, I think on. I just had to. Basically, I must have signed in.
- [35:13]
B
Yeah.
- [35:13]
A
To YouTube. And then it's already logged into your
- [35:16]
B
Gmail and YouTube and Chrome and stuff. Okay. Yeah.
- [35:20]
A
So I forget exactly how I did it, but I can.
- [35:23]
B
Okay. I love that.
- [35:24]
A
Yeah.
- [35:24]
B
Okay, so we're using it as a social media strategist. We're asking it to do some competitor analysis, see what's trending, what's going on in the industry, and then using that for our own content creation.
- [35:35]
A
Yep.
- [35:36]
B
Okay. Super cool.
- [35:37]
A
Yeah.
- [35:37]
B
And then you're editing on capcut. What is Descript for?
- [35:40]
A
Descript does my captions and, like, kind of tightens the capcut edit, so takes out, like, any pauses, like, so just makes it a nice, crisp, clean video. But mainly for that and the captions, which you could also do on capcut, but it's a little bit more manual.
- [35:57]
B
Yeah.
- [35:58]
A
I don't know if you feel that way.
- [35:59]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like Descript and I like capcut. I feel like I'm using, like, a bazillion tools all the time.
- [36:03]
A
What else do you use?
- [36:04]
B
Oh, my gosh, there's so many. I've actually been really enjoying Instagram edits.
- [36:08]
A
Oh, interesting.
- [36:09]
B
Yeah.
- [36:10]
A
You do that on your phone or on a desktop?
- [36:11]
B
On my phone.
- [36:12]
A
Wow.
- [36:12]
B
It's pretty similar to Cap Cut, but that's been kind of my last minute.
- [36:15]
A
Yeah, I need, like, a desktop. I can't edit on my phone. That would take so long.
- [36:20]
B
I like editing on my phone. It's fun, it's easy. But I know it's hard because, like, the buttons are little.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah.
- [36:27]
B
Okay, last question. How do you come up with ideas? Like, how do you actually come. So. So you're. Every single day, you're like, I'm just getting a post out today. Got to get a post out by the end of the day. So you're coming up with new post ideas every day?
- [36:38]
A
I normally. Not necessarily every day. I feel like on Mondays, I will. I mean, one, like, throughout my life and day to day, like, I'm always like, oh, that's an idea. Like, let me write that down. So, like, always kind of have this, like, list going. And then on Mondays, I'll normally sit down and be like, okay, here are, like, the three to four videos I would love to get out this week. And then, like, basically, like, each day, like, maybe on a Tuesday, I'll do, you know, a big chunk of time to, like, script things out, film things out. It kind of depends on how the week goes, if I'm being totally honest. But that's kind of my goal. What else was I going to say? Oh, and then I try and incorporate, like, anything I'm creating. And something that, like, has been working really well for me right now is, like, what is already going on in my life that, like, AI. I mean, content can, like, easily be incorporated into my life with. So it's like, right now I'm, like, wanting to spend all this time building in Claude Cowork. And I Know that a lot of people like want to learn about this stuff. So it's like I'm already spending two to three hours a day building something new in Claude. Why don't I then do this series and create videos on it? Other times like, I'm like, oh, I want to like dive deep into like this specific vertical in women's health right now for investing trends. So why don't I create some content out of that? Or other times I might be like at a VC conference and it's like, okay, let me create a vlog on going to that conference. And so it's. I'm always just trying to make it easy on myself and like keep the inspiration going by just trying to talk and share things that are already happening in my day to day life.
- [38:15]
B
Yeah. So you're not necessarily having to sit down and come up with new ideas all the time. You're documenting the ideas that already come to you or that you're being inspired by keeping a list. And then you always have something to create. And then you're also documenting what you're currently building and what you're currently doing.
- [38:33]
A
Exactly. Love that. And I think that just keeps like the idea flywheel going because it can just be like exhausting always trying to think of ideas.
- [38:42]
B
Yeah, well, I lied. There's actually one last question. Okay, what advice would you give to. I don't know the word for this, Maybe like a medium creator. Like they started creating, they're not a beginner, they started creating content, they're creating consistently and they're in a good flow, but they're not in this space yet where they've truly overcome the cringe mountain and they're making a lot of money from their content. What advice would you give to someone in that space?
- [39:07]
A
My advice would be just to keep going. I feel like I've seen some creators that like started in this tech startup VC space that just like didn't keep going. And I feel like they had this huge opportunity ahead of them. And again, I think we were kind of early to this B2B tech space and I'm like so happy that we all kept going because the opportunities are now massive. So I think it's just like, keep going. And for me, like to keep going and keep grinding and keep building has been like kind of creating this north star. So like, what is the impact that your content wants to make? For me, that's like getting more women building businesses, getting more women investing in businesses. And so like having that like goal in mind has made it feel a lot less just like soul sucking is what I will say.
- [39:52]
B
Yeah.
- [39:53]
A
And.
- [39:53]
B
And I'm sure you get messages, like every day, every week of. Of women sharing the impact you made on them.
- [39:59]
A
Keep me going too much. So please keep those messages coming.
- [40:03]
B
Yeah, that's such good advice. So instead of just. Well, first of all, first piece of advice is keep going because some people are going to get to that. Actually, most people are going to get to that point and. And quit totally. They're like, oh, this is a little uncomfy. This is weird. I feel cringe. I'm going to quit.
- [40:17]
A
Yeah.
- [40:17]
B
If they didn't quit, they didn't quit two years ago. They would be where you are now.
- [40:21]
A
Yeah, exactly. And I think, like, the other thing, like, I've been creating content. I think my first post on TikTok was January 2022. So over four years ago, I'm just about to hit 100,000 followers on Instagram. So, like, this has been like a very slow grind and burn for me. And I think, like, a lot of people think it's just like this overnight success and it really has taken genuinely years of just like, staying in the game. And like, you do see these creators that have these like, crazy rises so quickly and like, I'm so happy for them, but that's just not the reality for most people.
- [40:54]
B
It's so true. Well, know that in certain industries, like if you're in entertainment or something, it's a lot easier for you to grow
- [41:01]
A
really fast if you're in niche content.
- [41:04]
B
Yeah.
- [41:04]
A
There's niche audiences smaller. Exactly. So you just have to realize that and be okay with that. But like, there's also more dollars in these niche audiences often.
- [41:13]
B
Yeah. Well, it's like followers are not the end all, be all. Like if. Yeah, if somebody told us, like, hey, Courtney and Ruffin, you have to get as many followers as possible by like midnight. Like, we would probably go post some, like, controversial or like.
- [41:24]
A
Exactly.
- [41:24]
B
Talk about a celebrity in a crazy way. Or go in the streets of LA and do something crazy like you can get the followers that's not necessarily gonna lead to your goal. And I feel the same. I've been. I've been posting on social for like, since 2020. And so it's been six, six years. And I'm just. Now I'm not even to like 200k on Instagram. So, like, it's not.
- [41:44]
A
It's not just me.
- [41:46]
B
Well, it's, it's.
- [41:47]
A
But by the way, like, in my head, like, you're this Massive creator that has this huge audience around you.
- [41:53]
B
So, like. Yeah, it's crazy. I always use my fiance as an example because he has a tiny audience. I mean, yeah, it's like a thousand people, but his brand deals are bigger than mine because his, like, he's. He targets Spanish speaking vascular surgeons and there's only like 2,000 in the world. He'll never have 10 million followers. Right. Like, because there's not that many people in the audience, but when you own that audience, it's so powerful.
- [42:22]
A
Totally.
- [42:22]
B
I know. I love a niche anyways. Yeah, ours is super niche also. B2B, you get paid more. Like, we probably get paid the same as like, a fashion girly or makeup girly with like a million followers.
- [42:33]
A
I don't think I would be full time on this if I was a fashion girl. I mean, like. Yeah, I don't think so.
- [42:40]
B
Yeah.
- [42:40]
A
At least for my personal income goals.
- [42:43]
B
It's so funny because one of the girls at Smooth, she, like, made a joke of like, oh, we work with nerds. And I was like, I'm not a nerd. And then last week I realized that I was speaking.
- [42:51]
A
I think we are nerds.
- [42:53]
B
Literally are. I was, like, speaking about, like, B2B content when everyone else is at Coachella. Like, like, flying line to go speak, by the way.
- [43:00]
A
Coachella A few years. And they're going to invite all of us?
- [43:03]
B
No.
- [43:03]
A
Well. But it's just so funny. Knowledge creator House. Oh, my gosh.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah. My. The plane to LA last week was. I. I was going for the different reasons, everyone. And I was like, oh, my God. Maybe you are nerds. You think? Do you think that B2. I guess, like, B2B. There's some that are like, maybe like, Maggie Sellers, like, she's kind of being integrated in, like, fashion. Yeah.
- [43:24]
A
I feel like she kind of steps in both lines, which is cool.
- [43:27]
B
Yeah, I think that's hard for me. B2B house, Coachella 2027. Yeah, it's gonna be great.
- [43:34]
A
Cannes House. That's. Oh, yeah, that's where it's at.
- [43:36]
B
Cannes House is gonna be really cool. And everyone's like, oh, my God, you're gonna be there next week. I'm like, no, I'm not going to Cannes Film Festival. Like, I'm not that cool. We're going to. We're going to Cannes Lions.
- [43:45]
A
But again, big FOMO from that. It'll be fun.
- [43:48]
B
Yeah, it's gonna be.
- [43:49]
A
You should go. I know. I, like, don't think I can swing
- [43:52]
B
it, but I wish I'm Your baby?
- [43:54]
A
Yeah.
- [43:55]
B
Have you been before?
- [43:56]
A
I've never been.
- [43:57]
B
Okay, next year.
- [43:58]
A
Yeah, maybe next year.
- [43:59]
B
Yeah.
- [44:00]
A
Are you going with a brand?
- [44:01]
B
No, I'm not. I'm going. Cause I'm speaking.
- [44:03]
A
Nice.
- [44:04]
B
We figured out like the perfect formula to get approved to speak at Cannes, which I will share here.
- [44:09]
A
So then do you get a free ticket? You get a free ticket. I got approved for like a creator ticket, but then I was like, then I'm like investing in the travel. But it probably is worth it for.
- [44:17]
B
I'll let you know. Yeah, I'll give you the tea.
- [44:19]
A
Is this your first year?
- [44:20]
B
My first year, yeah. So I'm getting the ticket free because I'm speaking, but obviously like paying for everything else. But apparently if you pitch panels with people from. Because they really want people from like all different countries. So pitching a panel with people from different countries.
- [44:37]
A
Interesting.
- [44:38]
B
Is going to perform really well. So I think that's why we got approved because I pitched a panel with a friend from the UK and a friend from Mexico.
- [44:44]
A
Nice.
- [44:44]
B
And then we're also talking about LinkedIn and we applied to like a very small track. Like, there's different tracks. There's like creator track, again, track to the B2B.
- [44:54]
A
Yes. Like, they want people like this.
- [44:58]
B
Yes. So I think in general, for conferences, bringing in other people that can represent different places or diversity, and then going for a smaller track rather than something like super glamorous can. Can get you there.
- [45:10]
A
So smart.
- [45:11]
B
So next year.
- [45:11]
A
Yeah, next year.
- [45:12]
B
It's gonna be great. Anyways, Ruffin, how can everyone find you?
- [45:15]
A
Oh my gosh, you can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn and TikTok. My handle is just my name. Ruffin. Muffin with an R. Mitchner. And then also if you want to join bridge club, we have a brand new website that I just built on Claude. You can go to bridgeclub.com and that is bridge club with a Y, not an I.
- [45:35]
B
And then your maven cohort.
- [45:37]
A
Oh, yes. Yeah, you can find me on maven too.
- [45:39]
B
When does that cohort start?
- [45:41]
A
We. Well, I'm doing a condensed little workshop with them one day thing on May 20th and then I will be rolling out a four week cohort on there starting May 27th. So look out for that to see anyone there and DM me if you have questions on that.
- [45:56]
B
Love it. Amazing. Yeah. Figure out you can learn how to invest with your first $1,000.
- [46:01]
A
Exactly.
- [46:02]
B
Okay. Beautiful. Thank you, Rafa.
- [46:03]
A
Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. This was so fun.
- [46:05]
B
I do have an ask for you guys before we go. If this podcast has benefited you in any way, if you have gotten a tip that you've really loved and you've implemented it, if it's given you some sort of inspiration, if it's given you some sort of motivation or clarity, my ask is that you leave a five star review. I would appreciate it so much. It helps spread the message, it really helps the show grow and it helps more people get access to this information. My deepest desire is on gatekeeping. Shit. I want to un gatekeep information. So anybody that desires to build a personal brand, to build a business, to create this success in their life and to live their dream, I want them to have all of the information and I don't hold shit back on the show. Okay? We are not holding back. So in order to get this message to more people, in order to get these resources and tips to more people, your reviews go a long way. I appreciate you so much. Thank you.