How to Build the "It Factor": Confidence, Visibility & Personal Brand with Whitney Uland

Summary

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Built in Public with Courtney Johnson

Episode: How to Build the "It Factor": Confidence, Visibility & Personal Brand with Whitney Ueland
Date: March 17, 2026
Guest: Whitney Ueland, Founder of How to Be Famous

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Courtney Johnson sits down with Whitney Ueland to unpack the so-called “It Factor.” They dive deep into the myths and truths of personal branding, visibility, the roots of confidence, and how to cultivate real presence online and off. Drawing from Whitney’s background in the entertainment industry and her work coaching creatives and entrepreneurs, the duo explores how fame and magnetism are skills—not innate traits—and gives actionable advice for building an authentic personal brand in public.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Redefining Personal Brand & “It Factor”

• Debunking the Personal Brand Buzzword
  Whitney expresses initial skepticism about the concept of “personal brand”:

“I think it's BS. I think it's more—if I’m honest. ... It’s become an umbrella term to try and make something that's actually about human connection into a science.” (08:42)

• From Human Connection to Visibility
  The hosts agree that “personal brand” boils down to how open and authentic you’re willing to be, and what parts of yourself you’re willing to share to create true connection.

“You essentially create this hologram version of yourself that you choose which parts of yourself you're going to give to the world, depending on how intimate you want to be.” – Whitney (11:04)

• Reframing Fame
  Whitney argues for viewing “fame” as scalable intimacy, not just broad attention:

“If you can scale intimacy, that is fame... it’s about creating intimacy. It’s a parasocial relationship.” (12:17)

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2. Authenticity, Magnetism, and the “It Factor”

• The Science of Being Seen
  Whitney ties magnetism to feeling safe being perceived:

“When you feel safe being perceived in who you authentically are... it’s existing in a hyper-present state.” (19:52)

• Double Slit Experiment Analogy
  Whitney references the double slit experiment, comparing how being observed changes an atom’s behavior to how being seen impacts individuals:

“…at the subatomic level, when atoms are being witnessed, they act differently when being observed... That’s the same for us… it comes down to the fear of being seen for who we authentically are.” (21:58)

• Building Resilience in the Spotlight
  Developing the “It Factor” is about practice and nervous system regulation:

“I always say with fame: new levels, new devils. …You have to increase your capacity to be seen... for more authentic reasons, for seeing different sides of you.” (22:17)

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3. Personal Growth, Motherhood, and Boundaries

• Motherhood as Personal Brand Leverage
  Both Courtney and Whitney share that motherhood has enriched—not jeopardized—their businesses and brands:

“I actually had one of my best months ever during that time where I was so sick. That’s amazing... it was the first time I was really forced to rely on the systems, to rely on the team, to ask for more help, to delegate.” – Courtney (06:07)

• Sharper Boundaries
  Motherhood deepened Whitney’s boundaries:

“What’s right is right and what’s wrong is radioactive. …In your body, you’re like, I can’t. I don’t know how else to describe it.” (07:19)

• Boundaries Evolve With Visibility

“The more successful I become, the more boundaried I am... You just kind of get to this point that it's like this game of not settling for the things that are not making you happy.” – Whitney (49:23)

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4. Overcoming Fear and Playing Small

• Fear of Failure as the Root of Playing Small

“If you play small, you never have to confront the possibility that you can't do something.” – Whitney (06:06, repeated at 32:56)

• Feedback and Shame
  Learning to separate feedback from shame is key to growth:

“Shame is just—shame is like game over. Like, at that point, you’re just kind of dead in the water.” – Whitney (35:14)

• Practice in Public
  Your first posts, performances, or appearances will not be perfect—and that’s OK.

“Your first posts are going to suck. Like, they 100% are. …You have to confront that in your real life.” – Whitney (29:32)

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5. Authority, Trends, and Creative Autonomy

• Stop Outsourcing Creativity to Trends
  Whitney warns against chasing external validation or formulaic content:

“If you are following the zeitgeist, you’re doing it wrong because you need to be creating the zeitgeist.” (38:48)

• Creative Impulses Are Like Children

“Your impulses are a child and you’re their stage mom... if you’re screaming at your kid, do better, like get this right, whatever, it’s gonna go into shame and shut down.” – Whitney (39:14)

• Reverse Engineering Results from Vision
  Whitney advocates for starting with your future desired outcome and working backward:

“I’m a big believer of: go to your future self—that, like, highest self… and reverse engineer from where you are to where you’re wanting to go.” (42:24)

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6. Navigating Ego and Fame

• Fame as a Neutral Resource
  Whitney reframes fame away from ego:

“Fame is just a resource of having people’s attention. It’s just going to amplify who you are. It’s a neutral resource… If you were a good person before it, then you’re going to be able to amplify that.” (44:55)

• Ego Arguments Are Often Disguised Fear

“If you think you are not being egoic by not pursuing your goals, guess what? You’re still doing that so that you feel a certain way. …I think that’s often a disguise for fear.” – Whitney (44:32)

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7. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Authenticity Online:

“People need to know whether they want to be you, date you, be your best friend, or if they love to hate you.” – Whitney (09:32)

• On Building Fame:

“You have to practice in public. …You’re posting and maybe it sucks. It probably does suck… and the first people seeing your posts are the people that are maybe a little triggered by you putting yourself out there.” – Whitney (29:32)

• On Boundaries as Brand Grows:

“I spend a lot of time and energy and resources towards protecting my energy... I feel like the more successful I become, the more boundaried I am.” – Whitney (49:23)

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Actionable Habits & Takeaways

Daily Habits for Building the “It Factor”

• Post Daily (or at Least Consistently)

“The easiest one is just post every day.” – Whitney (49:56)
Whitney shares her system: set a 15-minute timer, create and post without overthinking or editing.

• Practice Being Seen, Even When Uncomfortable
  It’s not about perfect content, but building the muscle and resilience for visibility.

Tips for Staying Authentic

• Create content that contains “real pieces” of you.
• Focus on connection, not on ticking “personal brand” boxes.
• When you get attention, leverage it toward your long-term vision, not just more attention for attention’s sake.

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Notable Timestamps

• 03:30 — Introduction to Whitney and the “celebrity energy” framework
• 08:28 — Whitney challenges the concept of “personal brand”
• 12:17 — Redefining fame as scalable intimacy and parasocial relationships
• 19:52 — What the "It Factor" is; mystical science, being safe to be seen
• 22:17 — Tangible steps and the impact of being witnessed
• 29:32 — Differences between performing on stage and on social media
• 32:56 — The truth about playing small and the protective function of self-sabotage
• 38:48 — Why following (vs. creating) trends is a trap
• 42:24 — Reverse engineering authority and outcomes from your long-term vision
• 44:55 — Fame is neutral, ego vs. impact
• 49:56 — Whitney’s #1 habit: “Just post every day”

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Further Resources

• Whitney Ueland – @whitneyuland, How to Be Famous Podcast
• Courtney Johnson’s Content Club: Daily content prompts and accountability for creators (mentioned at 51:17)

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Episode Tone

Conversational, fun, honest, no-BS practical insights with a mix of humor, vulnerability, and incisive wisdom. Both hosts are candid about their journeys, lifting the curtain on what real, sustainable visibility looks like—and what it’s not.

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is a candid, in-depth guide to building visibility and authority as a skill—not something you’re born with. Whitney Ueland and Courtney Johnson dissect the emotional blocks and mindset shifts required to truly show up in public, covering personal brand, authenticity, boundaries, shame, ego, trends, and resilience. The core message: your “It Factor” and sense of fame are resources anyone can build—by practicing vulnerability, setting firm boundaries, learning from feedback, and trusting your own unique creative vision.

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Transcript

[Courtney Johnson]

I hired my attorney because she posts about like full moon witch circles and I'm like, this girl is weird. I want to work with her.

[Whitney Ueland]

If you play small, you never have to confront the possibility that you can't do something. Oh shit.

[Courtney Johnson]

What do you think about personal brand?

[Whitney Ueland]

I think it's bs.

[Courtney Johnson]

Welcome to Built in Public. I am your host, Courtney Johnson. I've been a full time content creator and a personal brand strategist for seven years and I really built my career sharing the process, not just the outcomes of personal brand. Built in Public is about what it actually looks like to build a brand, a business, and to build real leverage in the creator economy. We're talking strategy, systems, audience growth, monetization, and that uncomfortable middle ground between I have an idea and this is actually working. I'll be sharing what I'm testing, what's working, what's not, and I'm going to be bringing on people who are building their careers and companies out loud too. If you want honest conversations, practical insight and zero bs, you are in the right place. Let's build in public. Welcome back to Built in Public. Today I'm sitting down with Whitney Ueland. She's a fan, founder of how to Be Famous. She helps creatives, founders and entrepreneurs step into what she calls their celebrity energy. And Whitney's work is built around this idea that fame isn't something you're born with. It's not this like magical it factor everyone has, but it's something that you can actually develop. It's a skill, it's a tool, it's a resource. And before doing this work, Whitney spent over a decade in the entertainment industry, acting, writing, navigating rejection until somebody told her that she didn't have the it factor. And instead of accepting that, she became obsessed with understanding it and proved that magnetism and visibility aren't innate, they're learnable. So Whitney helps people stop waiting for permission from gatekeepers and start owning their spotlight on their own terms. In this episode, we talk about visibility, identity, and what it really takes to become someone that people pay attention to. My book, Career Cheat Codes comes out on April 14th and pre orders are now open. I'm so excited. If you have ever gotten value from any of my free content from listening to this podcast, whether that be YouTube, Spotify, my posts, my free trainings and masterclasses and webinars, anything I've shared online, pre ordering the book is one of the biggest ways to help this mission of un, gatekeeping, the gate kept, and this mission of giving people all of the autonomy that they need in order to create their dream in their life. Pre ordering the book is just the biggest way to help these ideas reach beyond this audience in this community. Pre orders actually don't count as, like, early sales. They actually signal demand to retailers. So, like, pre orders ride or what's riding on retailers wanting to carry the book. So it plays a really, really big role in how widely the book is seen once it launches. So this book is really the most complete version of what I've been aiming to teach for years. You know, how to build leverage, how to understand the real rules of the game, how to understand what's gate kept, how to build your personal brand and create career mobility on your own terms. Guys, I'm so excited about this book. Like, it has been such a journey and I packed as much value as I possibly can to transform your career. And if somebody else comes to mind, like a friend, a sibling, a mentee, a coworker who's navigating their career right now, it could also be a really meaningful gift. You can pre order career cheat codes. We're going to give a link in the show. Notes would really, really appreciate it, and I know you're just going to love it. Welcome, Whitney.

[Whitney Ueland]

Thank you. I'm so happy to be here and welcome back to la. Thank you.

[Courtney Johnson]

We. We matched today.

[Whitney Ueland]

I know I did. Oh, I text that morning.

[Courtney Johnson]

My outfit.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah. And I was like, what's the dress code? I don't want to be profoundly under or overdressed. And then I was like, I know exactly what I'm wearing.

[Courtney Johnson]

Okay. Wow. It probably looks better in our pics too. It's more cohesive. Yeah, it looks great.

[Whitney Ueland]

It's on.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's giving milf. Thank you.

[Whitney Ueland]

And I am.

[Courtney Johnson]

And you are.

[Whitney Ueland]

And so are you.

[Courtney Johnson]

And so am I. Yeah. This is my second podcast episode after I.

[Whitney Ueland]

Since announcing.

[Courtney Johnson]

Since announced. Actually since knowing, like, I batch so many podcasts in November. Like, yeah. Oh, probably 30 podcasts. This is really first day recording podcast since I'm like, pregnant.

[Whitney Ueland]

Wow.

[Courtney Johnson]

I know. Can you believe?

[Whitney Ueland]

That's incredible.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's so fun. Oh, this is like new personal brand element.

[Whitney Ueland]

It's a new personal brand element.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's crazy. It really is. One time a psychic told me, I was like, I'm afraid of my of pregnancy and personal brand. And she's like, no, no. This is going to add a new layer of depth and it will.

[Whitney Ueland]

That's why I'm, like, so excited for it. Like, it's birth is such a spiritual journey and it, like, deepens your access to yourself and to spirituality in a way that I've never experienced. It's like a mushroom journey. I've heard Birth, specifically, but also motherhood.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. Because your brain releases, like DMT when you're giving birth. This is so funny because I'm like, I'm gonna stop. Stop talking about crazy. And, like, I had a whole podcast episode about dmt. I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna really focus on personal brand in our first. We're gonna really reel it in.

[Whitney Ueland]

But I genuinely actually do think that it is. It is an encapsulation of your personal brand.

[Courtney Johnson]

Right.

[Whitney Ueland]

And, like, I know we're gonna talk more about that, but it is like having all of those facets of you, whether or not they're present in your content, they speak to people. Like, people can sense it and pick up on it. Like, I'm. I also had a psychic when I was. I was in this class and a psychic told me when I was pregnant with my son that I was, like, sitting on this treasure, treasure trove and that my career was going to take off once I had my baby, which is exactly what happened. But it ended up. Yeah. Being, like, the best thing for my personal brand and career. Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

I think it's important that women that are curious about having kids or they want to have kids, but they're afraid, like, hear those stories.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

Because it's been really positive for me too. Although I was really struggling. I was really, really sick for about six weeks. And I'm talking, like, I had a really bad time when I was, like, 19 years old. I had pneumonia and mono at the same time. It was so horrible. And, like, double pneumonia. And this was way worse. Like, I don't want to scare anyone, but I had a really, really difficult time.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

And I'm like, wow, my business is going to fail. Everything is going to suck. No, actually, quite the opposite happened because it was the first time I was really forced to rely on the systems, to rely on the team, to ask for more help, to delegate.

[Whitney Ueland]

And.

[Courtney Johnson]

And I actually had one of my best months ever during that time where I was so sick. That's amazing. Thank you. And it was really validating. I'm going to make a TikTok video that says, like, getting pregnant made me more money.

[Whitney Ueland]

It made me famous. So. Yep.

[Courtney Johnson]

But I think it's. Yeah, it's this. That we can create a new story rather than. It's going to be harmful. It's going to hurt you. No, no, no. It can Actually really improve your business, your life.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

Good girl. I'm money motivated. Okay,

[Whitney Ueland]

let's be clear.

[Courtney Johnson]

Let's be clear.

[Whitney Ueland]

Well, that's the thing is my capacity. Because all of a sudden I had something bigger than me to advocate for. And so then it just was like, oh, these things not okay. This okay. Oh, yeah. And, like, start. Like, I have to expand my capacity in order, which means make more money.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. I mean, the boundaries that you start to create. I can imagine. I've heard that right after you give birth, your boundaries are just, like, so sharp, so, so clear. It's, like, so intuitive.

[Whitney Ueland]

What's right is right and what's wrong is radioactive. Like, it's like, in your body. You're like. I can't. I don't know how else to describe it.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, that's powerful. That is such powerful energy. Yeah. I mean, I think this just goes back to the fact that our personal brand is, like, 90% subconscious, and that's really the work to be done. I actually just ran a retreat, and one of my clients, she's, like, so lovely. She's incredible. And. And she was struggling a little bit.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

And, you know, I was asking her, like, she's like, I don't. I don't really love the content I made, et cetera. Really. As. As I w. Walked her through the layers of like, where is that coming from? Where is that coming from? Where is that coming from? It came down to this subconscious fear of asking for support. And it's really. It's really incredible just to see, like, wow, like, when you solve. When you make that solve of, like, I'm comfortable asking for support, what else becomes possible in your life?

[Whitney Ueland]

A hundred percent.

[Courtney Johnson]

And we all have that, right? Like, we all have that subconscious block around our personal brand that could be asking for support. It could be fear of being seen. It could be fear of being canceled. It could be needing to be loved.

[Whitney Ueland]

Right.

[Courtney Johnson]

That when we. We really bring into consciousness, like, that's when things pop off.

[Whitney Ueland]

Okay, I have a question for you. You've got to define personal brand for me, because I'm not gonna lie, when I hear that word, it, like, makes me want to crawl.

[Courtney Johnson]

Okay, that's perfect, because I was just. That was my first question. What do you think about personal brand?

[Whitney Ueland]

I think it's B.S. i think it's more. If I'm honest.

[Courtney Johnson]

Tell me more.

[Whitney Ueland]

But that. That being said, I don't think it's actually. I think that it's become an umbrella term to try and make something that's actually about human connection. Yeah. Into a science.

[Courtney Johnson]

Totally.

[Whitney Ueland]

And it's an attempt to reverse engineer how people connect to you. And so I understand, and I think a lot of people in, like, you know, I've talked to plenty of entrepreneurs and, like, they've even told me that, like, my business would have spoken to them if I said, I can help you build your personal brand because it's a little bit like buzzwordy, instead of saying, I can teach you how to be famous. Even though to me those are kind of synonymous. So that's where I have the issue with it. But to me, if we're going to use that word personal brand, it's. It is. It's about what are the. The parts of you that you are wanting to present to the world and almost like. And they need to be authentic to you because you've got to sustain it. You know, if you create this. I've had clients who have created these essentially Personas that they thought were going to make them money, and they did. And then they get to this place that it's inauthentic to them, and they're like, I can't keep doing this. And then they have to tear it all down. Which is even harder when you have literally millions of eyeballs on you at that point. Um, but. So it, it needs to be authentic. But it's. I. I like to say it's. People need to know whether they want to be you, date you, be your best friend, or if they love to hate you. And I think those kind of encapsulate what. What I like to think of as a personal brand instead of like the. Here are the, like, five pillars. Five pillars of who? Of. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

I think that's really important because there are a lot of people that are gonna be listening to this. Watching this being, like, personal brand makes me feel icky. I don't wanna make it all about me. I mean, the phrase is reductive for sure.

[Whitney Ueland]

Well, and it's also. Yeah, I think it's reductive. And it's also. It feels like a to do list. It feels like. Or like when people are like, what is it? When they're like my client avatars, I'm like, sorry, what? Like, did. Have we forgotten that we're talking to people?

[Courtney Johnson]

Right?

[Whitney Ueland]

Like, that this isn't. You're not just speaking into a void. And so that's, that's really where my conflict with it is. Because I think a lot of people think of it as a necessary evil. And it really doesn't have to be like it really. You essentially create this, like, hologram version of yourself that you choose which parts of yourself you're going to give, give to the world, depending on how intimate you want to be and how much you want to share. And again, they should be authentic to you.

[Courtney Johnson]

But.

[Whitney Ueland]

But that's in the hopes, though, of connecting with an actual other human.

[Courtney Johnson]

Totally. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe there gets to be a new word. Maybe. Maybe we invent a new word, right? Because I think fame is something people could be scared of. I just interviewed one of my mentors before this, Danielle, and she says, I don't want to be famous. She's like, I actually want a really small intentional community. She's built her business off of really small intentional communities. And she really likes intimacy, right? And so some people might hear personal brand and say, oh, that's icky. I don't want a personal brand. Some people might hear fame and say, well, I don't want to be famous.

[Whitney Ueland]

Right?

[Courtney Johnson]

Even though I know what you mean by. In your industry, in this community, you're well known, when people think about your expertise, they think of you, right? So, like, the languaging is difficult.

[Whitney Ueland]

Well, and so I like to call it like, scaling your consciousness and to the argument to like, oh, but I want a small, intimate community. If you can scale that, if you can scale intimacy, that is fame, right? Like, I think that a lot of fame also is an umbrella term that triggers people the same way that personal brand triggers me. So I totally get that. But I think a lot of it is just kind of like a misunderstanding of, like, remembering that again, it's creating intimacy. It's a parasocial relationship, Right? It's the relationship that an audience has to their fans. It's. I'm sure you experience this. You know, I do. I'm running errand errands, and someone stops me and recognizes me from my content. And they're asking me about my dog, they're asking me about my son. They're connecting about, you know, and I'll see this too, when clients sign up with me. Oftentimes when I ask them, like, what spoke to you about my work or whatever, it's like, oh, I also left Mormonism. My dad also died. My. I also am queer. I like the random little bits of actual me, like the real pieces of me that you could. You could call a personal brand, but just remembering that there's someone on the other side and it's about creating that intimacy. But it's. It's weird and Uncomfortable because it's also one way. It is a feedback loop. But also, people are receiving you and. And you're not actually. You don't actually know them. Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

And, I mean, I think it all boils down to authenticity. Right. But I love the example of, like, people are coming up to asking you about your dog. Right. If you were like, I'm only talking about celebrities, I'm only talking about fame tips, or blah, blah, blah, they wouldn't connect with you. Like, I hired my attorney because she posts about, like, full moon witch circles. And I'm like, this girl is weird. I want to work with her. If she would have just posted, like, legal tips for entrepreneur businesses, I'd be like, okay, fudge off. Like, it's so boring. I don't. You're. You're boring.

[Whitney Ueland]

I have never pursued any kind of legal action for people stealing my ip.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah.

[Whitney Ueland]

I just don't really give a shit.

[Courtney Johnson]

What?

[Whitney Ueland]

Why did you choose to? Because I don't know that that's the right answer for me. I. It kind of is just like, potentially, I'm. I'm. You can walk over me easily, and I don't have boundaries, but.

[Courtney Johnson]

Well, if somebody, like, steals a post, like, there's not really much I can do. I just block them. If somebody. I did have someone steal my whole offer, my whole, like, name, my landing page copy, and I just made a post about it, and then she took it down. Yeah. If people steal my stuff, I usually don't pursue anything. The reason why I'm pursuing this one is they're running my stuff as an ad without consent, and so they're making money off of it, like, very clearly, rather than just stealing an idea. And I specifically had asked them not to. And like, I make money off of running ads. Like, that's my brand partnership, and that's also my relationship with my agency. So if they're doing something that makes so much sense, out of scope, it's also that's threatening my relationship with my agency.

[Whitney Ueland]

Right.

[Courtney Johnson]

Cause no, I'm not in integrity with them. So that's why I'm pursuing. Hmm.

[Whitney Ueland]

Interesting.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah.

[Whitney Ueland]

Okay, we'll talk more.

[Courtney Johnson]

We'll talk more. Anyways, yeah, you get to protect your ip, but actually, that's. That's a great question, because a lot of people have a block around. Well, I don't want to share my music because someone's going to steal it.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

I don't want to make my art. Someone's going to steal it.

[Whitney Ueland]

Right. And I'm completely in the opposite Direction. So the context for one of these things that I just let go. Someone stole my course, transcribed it, turned it into a book.

[Courtney Johnson]

What.

[Whitney Ueland]

And now is selling it on Amazon with my face on it with like my podcast cover.

[Courtney Johnson]

Oh, yeah, lawyer up.

[Whitney Ueland]

But like, for what? Like, to me, I'm just like, that's fan art. So what Someone like. And I will say it has four and a half review star reviews on Amazon. I am monitoring. And like, I'm sure my, my literary agent would be like, yeah, get that taken down. But I'm just like, that's people imitating. It's not this. It literally doesn't have the same consciousness when it's coming from dishonesty.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah.

[Whitney Ueland]

So I. And I've seen people steal. Like, I have how to be Famous and celebrity energy trademarked because I'm the first person who was talking about it. And I've seen people knowingly or unknowingly perhaps steal that. And they always fade away. Like, to me, I'm just like, okay, get your 2, $500 and I swear to God, that will come back and bite you in the ass in a bigger way. You're gonna lose $5,000 for that 2500 that you stole from me. So I just really kind of let God, the universe, karma settle my debts. But. And I. And I think that also comes down to believing that I have infinite capacity for creativity. There's nothing that you can steal from me that would make me. My ability to create, that could take away my ability to create something new. So that's kind of. I don't know, but that's a really beautiful perspective. Thank you.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. I think some people do take it a little too far. Like, I think Taylor Swift's team, like, suing every fucking Etsy seller.

[Whitney Ueland]

And do they?

[Courtney Johnson]

Yes, if you like, if. If you have like vaguely Taylor Swift theme bachelor party T shirts or something, like, not even using her face or name, but just says something like. Or like, I'm turning to. It's. I'm feeling 22, like, as a T shirt. It's like 22 theme birthday party on Etsy. You can buy this package. Like, her team will like take it down. Like they're 247 monitoring, like Etsy. And also they do that with Ray. Like she's sued, like, I don't know, like Phoebe Bridges or some shit. No, not Phoebe Bridges. High School Musical, the Musical, the series girl. Really?

[Whitney Ueland]

Oh, Olivia Rodrigo.

[Courtney Johnson]

Olivia Rodrigo. Oh, yeah. Like, Taylor Swift's team goes so hard so quickly so much. And I. But some people Don't. Some people are more like, chill about it.

[Whitney Ueland]

Well, and here's the thing. She has a lot to protect, so.

[Courtney Johnson]

Right.

[Whitney Ueland]

But. And I would argue, like now she's kind of past need. Like, it's like, okay, for what? Like, because again, to me I'm like, that's just a fan trying to like, get their bag.

[Courtney Johnson]

I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there is a point where it's furthering your mission. Like, if you have a Taylor Swift themed bachelorette party, like, you're playing her music, you're probably buying her other things. You probably bought tickets. It's probably furthering her money and mission.

[Whitney Ueland]

Right. And I'm also just like, it's free publicity.

[Courtney Johnson]

You. Yeah, it is free publicity. It's really interesting. Did you know that Etsy banned Etsy witches? Do you know about Etsy witches? They banned it happened yesterday. What. What happened to our Etsy witches? Okay, so basically I didn't get one yet. I didn't get one yet either. But people said good things. I've heard great reviews. Yeah, you can like curse people or you can make some like an ex come back to you. You can, you can call in love.

[Whitney Ueland]

Like, see, I don't play with the dark arts.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's dangerous. But Etsy, Etsy band, Etsy witches. And I just, It's. It's interesting.

[Whitney Ueland]

That is interesting. How, how do they quantify that?

[Courtney Johnson]

Basically they were saying, like, if the person, the person isn't supplying you because they said, I'm gonna go do this spell for you. So they're not giving you anything. And Etsy has a policy where you have to get, you have to have a transaction. So now you can do it if it's like, I'm giving you a PDF with like a spell. Right. But I, But Etsy, which is. Can't, you know, I don't know.

[Whitney Ueland]

This is a dark day for the

[Courtney Johnson]

taxi, which is witches. Damn. You've shared a story before about how you felt. Like, I don't know if it was growing up and you're singing, but there's at some point where you felt like you didn't have this it factor and then you created it intentionally. Right. And so I'm curious your advice for others, like, what is this it factor? And if, like, how do you create it for yourself?

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah, so the it factor is. It's what I call celebrity energy. It's that magnetic energy that draws people to want to watch you. I, you know, I was raised Mormon. I didn't grow up watching a lot of Movies or television or listening. I like only knew Britney Spears and Hilary Duff. But now living in la, I see celebrities all the time and I don't know who they are, but I can always tell if they are somebody because of the, the magnetism that they pull, that they draw. And I grew up, you know, knowing that, like just kind of always seeing myself doing interviews, sitting like this, you know, but not really knowing how, how that would materialize. And I went to, went to college, BFA in musical theater. And then yeah, I was auditioning and couldn't figure out what that, what that, how to actually get the roles because I had the talent. And I realized and I know so many like entrepreneurs are like, I'm the best kept secret on the Internet, like what's going on? I'm the best entrepreneur, I've got the best service, I've got the best whatever. And it's really just because they haven't learned to tap into this. So that was a long, a long answer that I didn't even answer fully your question. But it's essentially what it comes down to is when you feel safe being perceived in who you authentically are. So being, feeling safe, being witnessed at a very intimate level for who you are, it's very, it's existing in a hyper present state which is, you know, they say in, in showbiz you never want to do a scene with a dog or a baby because they will, what's called pull focus, meaning everyone will want to watch them instead of you. You could be doing your best work, but it's not going to be as captivating as watching someone just exist in this hyper present state. And we all have access to that. We all do that at different areas of our life. But just like. Are you familiar with the double slit experience experiment? So for anyone who's listening, it's at the subatomic level when atoms are being witnessed, they act differently when they are being observed than when they're not being observed. And that's the same for us, you know, like when we are, it comes down to the fear of being seen for who we authentically are.

[Courtney Johnson]

I think that's so beautiful. Like this isn't just like, this is actually like scientific that our behavior changes when we're being seen, but we can actually through repetition and authenticity stay authentic when we're present and people are witnessing that. And that's what creates this really beautiful.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah, well, and let's like, let me also break down this to be a little more like tangible. If you are walking, you know, when you can feel someone behind you and it's like, you know, maybe it just that feeling, that sensation. Whenever we feel that sensation, we are, our subconscious mind perceives that as us being in danger, as us being under attack, as us being under threat. And so that's where then we just energetically close down. So I use this example I used to take. I lived in New York City, right? And when I was, I would take the subway. If someone scary gets on the subway, like you're trapped, you can't just like hop off. And so the best way to protect yourself is to just kind of shrink yourself, to like make yourself as small and invisible as possible. And that's what people do when they start to put their services out there, when they start to create this personal brand, when they start to market themselves, where we just energetically close down. And I always say with fame, it's new levels, new devils. And so increasing your capacity to be seen first by more people second. I mean, this isn't in any kind of order, but by more people for more authentic reasons, for seeing different sides of you. Like those are all different, like repetitions. And you know, we see all the time, especially in the arts, people who become one hit wonders and it's because they all of a sudden are in the spotlight and they didn't build that resilience, they didn't build that capacity, they didn't lay that foundation. And so then they can't hold it and everything feels like a threat. And I mean, I work with people all the time who have been in that situation or have been canceled or who have, you know, whatever it. They literally have like a PTSD response to the spotlight. If you're thrust into it before, you actually have that. So yeah, it really comes down to mindfulness, it comes down to subconscious rewiring, it comes down to nervous system regulation and getting those reps in, letting people see you in intimate ways.

[Courtney Johnson]

I know a lot of you guys are founders and a lot of you guys are looking to hire talent. And I get messages all the time of being like, Courtney, how do I find somebody to hire? How do I hire this type of person? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And guys, I don't know shit about hiring. I've literally like manifested every single person I've hired, no joke, like crazy coincidences. I've never done a traditional hire, but obviously if you're starting a startup, you can't just like twinkle and fairy lights manifest everybody. So I want to talk about my friend who actually graduated level up on LinkedIn her name's Holly Maglin. That's H O L L Y M A G L I N. Like go at her on LinkedIn right now and she helps you recruit early career talent for your startup. Holly's has this idea that like the traditional career fair is dead. If you're a founder or a lean startup team that's trying to find your next star hire at like a campus booth career fair, you're lost. If you have a team with a small budget, you don't need a bigger budget. You just need a better strategy. Like, especially when you're hiring Gen Z, like, they're not looking for this glossy 90s brochure career fair. Like, there's a totally different strategy. Gen Z really wants authentic connection. I think hiring people right out of college is so, so awesome because you get to kind of develop them. You get to get a new, fresh perspective. Anyways, so Holly Maglin, she created the Holly Maglin method and it is such a cheat code for modernizing how you hire. Even if you're starting from scratch with like zero experience hiring, if you need a full audit of your current plan, if you need ground up of a new strategy, Holly has got you. Okay, again, if you guys are startup founders, you're looking to hire early career talent, go add Holly Mad on LinkedIn right now. She's even sharing a free campus engagement execution matrix with all of our listeners to show exactly how she does it so you can get her entire strategy for free. Anyways, just wanted to throw this in there because I know a lot of you guys are hiring. I know a lot of you guys need support right now. And Holly's just an amazing woman and I wanted to offer this free resource. Now there's a question I always get in my DMs. I get this question from my clients and I'm like, Whitney is going to be the perfect person to ask this to. So sometimes people come to me and be like, courtney, I really struggle posting on social media. I struggle talking to my phone. I struggle being on podcast or speaking. But I was in musical theater. But I sang. But I grew up in front of audiences.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

So why now, as an adult, is it difficult for me to be in, in front of the camera or post on social media?

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah. And I, I also have seen this with people who they feel confident in maybe a profession, and then when they try to launch a personal brand, that's when it like, they're like, but I used to feel confident as a lawyer and now I, I'm, you know, Whatever. I think a few things can happen with this one is we experience like anytime you've experienced something negative in the spotlight, it's going to kind of like teach your nervous system, teach your subconscious mind that it's not safe to be seen.

[Courtney Johnson]

Right.

[Whitney Ueland]

It's like a kid touching a hot stove. It's like, oh, don't do that again. So if you ever, maybe you tried something new, you failed, whatever. But I also think that a big part of it is that if you were able to perform, that's a little different than being seen. And the best actors are the ones who can be seen while they're performing. But there are plenty of performers who are putting up energetic walls and they're stepping into a character and they are putting on essentially a mask. And the work really is about taking those masks off. So I even really struggled going from like, I kind of hacked this once, tapping into the celebrity energy when I was acting and pursuing that as my main quest, if you will, and was able to show up authentically in my auditions and in my writing and was able to create the results in character. But then transitioning that to a personal brand was like a whole other beast. And it was so much more raw, so much more vulnerable and it was so scary. Like, I, I mean, I probably posted a thousand times before I had a hit on TikTok, despite having performed for 30,000 people at one time. And I think part of that also is that, you know, there's some sort of safety and also understanding when we're performing in front of a live audience that, you know, I heard an actress in my class the other day say, I love being on stage because it's like, they can't leave. They've paid to be here, they're going to be here the whole show. When you're posting online, it's kind of like you're throwing a party, but you don't know if anyone's coming. You don't know if a million people are coming. You don't know if they're going to come and love you or if they're going to come and trash your house. So it's nerve wracking, right? And you're literally speaking to a, a piece of metal that's not human. That's not a human thing to do. And so the trick is to be able to show up as if it you are speaking to that human and being able to allow them to actually witness all of the parts of you.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, I guess I didn't think about that. I guess if you're trained in live audiences. You're always getting some sort of feedback, but when you're talking to a tiny dot on your phone, there's. There's no immediate feedback. There's no one smiling or clapping or laughing.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah. And you have to practice in public. Right, Right. And. And especially when you're starting, the people watching you are people in your real life. So it has real life ramifications. Right. Where you're posting. And maybe it sucks. It probably does suck. Like, it's. Let's just say. I don't even want to say probably your first posts are going to suck. Like, they 100% are. And even, you know, having the background, a degree in musical theater, that just doesn't translate because it's a whole new skill. And yet the first people seeing your posts are the people that are maybe a little triggered by you putting yourself out there, or they're afraid of what that could mean, or they don't want to see you fail, or they see that you're kind of embarrassing yourself. And so you. And then you have to confront that in your real life. And so a lot of people, that's where they stop then. Or they'll block all of their family members. And you could do that. You could do that. You'll have to face it at some point. But, yeah, I think that's. That's part of it as well.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. It's also different mediums. Like, I kind of think of it like maybe a news anchor. It's saying, but, Whitney, like, I'm. I'm a news anchor. I'm trained to being a news anchor. Why am I not a good actress? It's like, well, it's also a different medium, different skill set.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

I actually was having a conversation with a client this morning, and she was saying, courtney, I'm so afraid of going on video on social media, but I played a stripper in this. This musical theater show, and I could play a stripper just fine. I'm like, yeah, you were playing a stripper. That was. You're embodying a character that wasn't you totally. On social media, that is so much more vulnerable even than being a stripper, because that's authentically you.

[Whitney Ueland]

Right. And there's, you know, we suspend disbelief when we're watching something. We know that that's a character. We know that the person is not. Not really the strip, you know, or whatever it is. Whereas online people don't. Like, they do. And they don't realize that you're actually a real person. It's like those lines are kind of blurred where. I'm sure you've experienced this, where the larger your audience gets. You do have people who kind of think of you like a comic book character or something, or like a video game character. Like, they don't see you as a human, but. But. But also our brains think that they do. And. And then that parasocial relationship is real. So I think there's just a lot of, like, kind of blurred. Blurred lines within the medium.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, there's blurred lines around that relationship. Like, I'm sure people meet you and they're like, oh, man, I feel like we're already best friends.

[Whitney Ueland]

Totally.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah.

[Whitney Ueland]

And they.

[Courtney Johnson]

I think that can be a great thing. And it can be a weird thing too, because it could be great. Because they're like, I already feel comfortable with you. Right. I already trust you. Right. Like, I already understand where you're coming

[Whitney Ueland]

from, which is so fun, because I've. And I've created an audience that I actually really with, so that's fun. And sometimes boundaries are blurred. Right. Like, I had someone who, like, literally walked around the entire grocery store with me while I was with my son and was, like, telling me her life story, and I'm like, how do I get out of here? You know?

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, I find that. I find that too. Like, boundaries can be blurred with, like, advice. Like, people come. Come up to me and be like, yeah, okay, so here's my situation, and blah, blah, blah, and like, like. Like talking for, like, 20 minutes and what should I do? Can you make me a strategy? I'm like, no. I'm like, yeah. You're like, I'm grocery shopping.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, it is. It is interesting. Okay, I want to talk about playing small. What do you feel like playing small

[Whitney Ueland]

actually protects people from failure, rejection. I mean, really, the worst thing that it is if you play small. You never have to confront the possibility that you. You can't do something. Oh. And you have to take a deep look at yourself every time you fail. And a lot of people just are not willing to do that. And so they would rather play small. They would rather not fully go all in, because that's way easier. Like, I'm thinking of. I won't name names. People in my life who never fully went after their dreams and kept them small. And I remember just. Just feeling so frustrated being like, you can do this. Like, you just have to get the reps of failing it. And I think that was the biggest gift of pursuing acting, was that I was told no to my face probably 600 times. Do you know what I mean? And it was like, you're not X enough, whatever it is. Pretty enough, skinny enough, tall enough, short enough, whatever. But each time you have the choice to reflect on, do I still care about this? Am I still gonna hold my vision or am I not? And that's a hard thing to continually face a mirror every single day. I feel like I'm kind of used to it now. I'm sure you are as well, but I think for people that are playing small, and I also think that comes at different levels. I have moments all the time. I just had one of these recently. I feel, I can feel another one coming where I'm like, I know that I'm gonna lock in and be like, whitney, you need to take yourself fucking seriously and lock the fuck in. And there are, there are ways that I've, you know, yesterday I half assed a scene and I'm good enough in my acting class that like, I, it, it passes. No one can really tell, but I, I know and I can tell and I love that. Like, my teacher called me out on it. But a lot of. But, But I also watch people in, in my acting class get feedback and they immediately become defensive. They're. They shut down because they don't have that skill of looking at themselves and like, working through it. They just get stuck in shame. And shame is just. Shame is like game over. Like, at that point, you're just kind of dead in the water.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. You get to realize that feedback is neutral. Like if you're getting notes on a scene or maybe somebody's giving you feedback on your social media content. Hey, you could do this differently next time.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

If you go immediately into shame, you're gonna be stuck forever. And I think the antidote to shame is being like, this is completely neutral in the same way it's neutral for an athlete. Right. You're, I don't know, throwing a ball and I'm telling you, hey, like, move your hand a little bit to the left. I'm seeing your hand is a little bit too far to the right. Right. Like, if you saw a coach giving an athlete that feedback, you would be like, oh, they're just trying to make their throw better. And you get to realize that people around you, your coaches, your mentors, teachers are trying to help you get on that, trying to help you throw the ball correctly. Right. And I, I see that too. I see a resistance to feedback. And, oh, I think we talked about this last time. But like, having a background is like, Athlete or you're singing or in theater or something where you're constantly getting notes is such an important life skill. Like, I gotta put my future kid in a notes heavy activity and you

[Whitney Ueland]

just give him notes. Like, that's like one of the fun things about being a parent. Like, one of my favorite things about being a mom is, like, looking at my son and being like, hey, you're better than this. Like, you can do this. Aww. And it's so. Yeah, it's really fun.

[Courtney Johnson]

That's so sweet.

[Whitney Ueland]

Oh, yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

So. Well, this. I feel like this is like moving with me and it's giving me vertigo, but it's not. This is just my pregnancy brain. By the way. I thought pregnancy brain was fake. I was like, people are making excuses. Unfortunately, it's.

[Whitney Ueland]

It's real.

[Courtney Johnson]

I know.

[Whitney Ueland]

And for me, has not really gone away.

[Courtney Johnson]

I've heard, like, you kind of gotta get used to your new brain.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah. And like, there are times that I'm like, I seem like such a dumb blonde and I know I'm. I mean, you just have to know your strengths. But like, like, homegirl cannot, like, I cannot freaking, like, make a plan. Make an Airbnb schedule, anything. Like, it'll be wrong every time.

[Courtney Johnson]

Well, in order to really activate your truest gifts, you almost have to atrophy your non importing gifts. Right.

[Whitney Ueland]

Keep going.

[Courtney Johnson]

Same way. Yeah, this happens. It was so funny. My partner and I were at Burning man, and he's a surgeon. Like, he's amazing at his craft. And. And a friend had brought a bunch of IVs for us, like, to hydrate. And she was a nurse. And he was like, oh, I'll help do the IVs. Well, he really sucked at it. Like, the nurse was so fast IVs immediately, he was not great. And I'm like, it's not that he's a bad surgeon. He's actually one of the best surgeons in the world. Is he atrophied the skill of giving IVs because he was focused on his craft, which is like saving legs surgery. Right. And so it's the same way, like, you've probably atrophied planning travel and planning for Airbnb because your consciousness shouldn't be there. Right. Like, you get to focus on what you do best and staying in this, like, creativity realm. So it's not something to be, like, ashamed of. It's like. No, you actually get to atrophy those things.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah.

[Whitney Ueland]

Doing that intentionally, I think can be a little scary.

[Courtney Johnson]

Right. It's like hair. Like, the best colorist, they get a blow dry person, and they're not practicing blow drying every day. So they're not going to be great at it because their expertise is color. Right. Another question that I get a lot, I'm like, I'm bringing this to Whitney is how do you stop outsourcing, like, your creativity and your authority to trends or algorithms? Like, I've seen a lot of people that have built big personal brands, but it's on the backs of trends, and that's just not sustainable.

[Whitney Ueland]

It's really not. And it's gonna. Then you're always gonna be chasing. If you are following the zeitgeist, you're doing it wrong because you need to be creating the zeitgeist.

[Courtney Johnson]

Whoa, wait, that's powerful.

[Whitney Ueland]

Thank you. Yeah. And. But that's a lot scarier to do. Right. And I think it can be. There's different levels of this as well with execution. Like, something I see a lot is people when they're. They get to the point everyone, when they first start, they want an agent, and that's the worst time to get an agent, because then they put the agent in the authority figure in the driver's seat, and then they kind of are just floundering. Versus when you build something, then you also build the skill of holding a vision and saying, like, okay, no, this is what we're doing. It's just been fascinating for me. Right now I'm getting new representation as a actor and filmmaker. And the way that I'm approaching it is so different than back in the day where I was just kind of like, oh, like, what do you think I should do? What kinds of roles? Whatever. And now I'm like, this is what I'm doing. This is where I'm going. Are you helping me get there or not? And what's your plan to help me get there? But that's a learned skill. Like, and it starts with being able to make those decisions in real time and trust those creative impulses. I think your creative impulses are kind of like a. I think of it like they. Your impulses are a child and you're their stage mom. Where it's like, if you. If you're a stage mom and you're screaming at your kid, do better. Like, get this right, Whatever. It's gonna go into shame and shut down and completely just flounder. Whereas if you're the stage one, that's like, let's try this. Hey, let's see. Yeah, it didn't Work. All right, that's okay. Let's try again. That is going to create the somatic safety in your body to then trust yourself, to then try new things, to then start exploring. And that's when you start creating the zeitgeist instead of following it.

[Courtney Johnson]

Totally. Yeah. I. This first person that comes to mind right now is Addison Rae, like queen of authenticity. She's creating something completely new rather than letting, I mean she has representation, everything. But her and her creative director has just created something really amazing. Rather than going this like pop star route of we're gonna have you do these formulaic things that lead you. Right. It's a lot more authentic and creative. But yeah, as far as like viral trends, like, I'm not gonna lie, I can give you a good boost to ride a viral trend. It can give you a boost to ride a news story or to. Somebody was telling me the other day, like, oh, every time I need a viral boost, I just say something mean about like a K pop idol and it brings my numbers up. But is that, I mean that's obviously not long term authenticity.

[Whitney Ueland]

Well, and you have to decide is that the. Just what you want to continue creating in the world and, and to what end? And maybe, maybe it is. Like, I know for me, my like viral go to hack is to say I have this theory about becoming famous. Like, so I have this theory about becoming a celebrity.

[Courtney Johnson]

It works really well.

[Whitney Ueland]

It works really well. I don't like, you know, again, it's like, don't reinvent the wheel if you don't have to. And use, use something if you can leverage it into something else. I think that's also a big part is that people don't necessarily know how to leverage attention once they have it. And so they'll get it for one thing. And then they just are kind of like, ah, I need. And I, you know, I fall into that too as well.

[Courtney Johnson]

So let's say that you're starting to build your personal brand. You're getting this attention. It's starting to compound now what do you do with it? So you're like, you have the attention. How do you, how do you use it?

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah. So I am a big believer of like go to your future self. That like highest self. What are the things that you actually want out of life and then reverse engineer from where you are to where you're wanting to go. So for example, I'm making a television show, I'm making a movie. That's been my intention for 10, 10 plus years. And I didn't think that it was going to take me on this content route. It did. Now I have a following and so now I'm reverse engineering and it like I'm excited. I'll tell you this, I'll tell you the secrets behind or over dinner, but I'm not going to share here. But seeing how it's all clicking in, I do also think that there's something mystical and magical to it that you don't have to know every single step of how you're getting there. It's. It's a combination, I think creating results and leveraging fame as an art form really, if you think about like painting a picture, you have to be focused on the minute detail and then you have to zoom out and make sure that the colors still make sense with the whole picture. Right? And that's really where creating fame, creating this personal brand, creating your legacy, it's the same thing. It's having that vision, but then also staying focused on the breadcrumb right in front of you and taking that next align step and trusting. And that's why I always say, like, fame is such a spiritual journey. It's. It's in a self trust journey. And, and my life has been the biggest test of this. It's going to take you on these weird turns and you're going to be like, but I thought we were going this way. But I'm. This feels like a left turn. And continually following those breadcrumbs while maintaining that vision, not letting go of the vision. I think that's the sweet spot.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's something that I think, think some of the listeners might be thinking is like, especially when it comes to like the spiritual journey of it all is ego. Specifically, I have a friend in mind that I know listens to this podcast that's like, well, Court, hey, I'm not gonna name you, but hey, you know who you are. And he's always like, but ego, ego. But I don't wanna have this big ego. And if I gain attention, it's gonna be feeding my ego and we wanna be egoless. And I'm like, that's really egoic of you to say, bro.

[Whitney Ueland]

I think so too.

[Courtney Johnson]

Okay. Especially when you have a mission that's so important for the world to know and you're holding it back.

[Whitney Ueland]

Okay, here's what I have to say. If you think that you are not being egoic by not pursuing your goals, guess what? You're still doing that so that you feel a certain way. Everything that we do is so that we feel a certain way you can be, you can be giving. And I, I say this, being raised Mormon, you can give your entire life to something and surrender it. It still is. Because you think that that's going. Because that makes you feel good.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's.

[Whitney Ueland]

You can't escape it. And so I just like, I think that that's oftentimes a disguise for fear. Your fame is just a resource of having people's attention. It's just going to amplify who you are. It's a neutral resource. It's not going to change you. If you were a good person before it, then you're going to be able to amplify that. You're going to be able to make massive ripple effects, facts in who you are. And, you know, I'm such a believer that if you are, if you have this desire for fame, it's because it's meant for you and because you have a soul contract with millions of people and you're supposed to do that. And yeah, I think that's just fear, which I would argue if you're listening to fear more than trust and surrender, that's more egoic.

[Courtney Johnson]

I agree. And I think it's also. You're playing the social game. Naval has this. Naval Ravikant has this quote that says, don't play like social ego games. You want to play games that are like, impactful or helping others. You're. You're trying to social posture when you say that. You're trying to say, well, I am so selfless that I'm going to keep my things to myself, that I'm going to keep my message to myself. Look how, look how, look how much. Look how small my ego is. Right. But it's really the opposite. Really. People that are willing to drop their ego in order to get feedback, to improve, to really push themselves. Because this message is meant for so many people and I'm not going to let myself get in the way of it. Powerful.

[Whitney Ueland]

It is powerful.

[Courtney Johnson]

Powerful. How have you constructed your boundaries as your brand has grown? And how do you feel boundaries contribute to your personal brand?

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm on the edge of new boundaries. Like, I shared, like, I. And I do think that comes with those, like, new levels, new devils of when you have more to protect, you have more to boundary around, you know, to draw boundaries around. And ultimately, you know, I remember this, this great video of Kelly Rowland on a red carpet at Cannes Film Festival and paparazzi. Someone was bothering her and she just very politely and kindly was like, no, we're not. We're not doing that. And it was such a powerful example to me. I mean, I think a lot of it is the power, like being willing to be kind of misunderstood as a. As a woman. You're gonna be seen as a bitch if you set a boundary, even if it's given in kindness and, you know, whatever it is. But I think it's. For me, it's been. My circle gets smaller. What I allow gets smaller. What feels wrong feels more radioactive for me. And I spend a lot of time and energy and resources towards protect my energy. And every time that I slip in into that because I'll get very much. It's easy for me to slip into like martyrdom complex. Like, I'll give an example. And this is. This is more of like a time boundary. But I have been really. I'm a single mom, struggle to get my kid out of the house in the morning. And the dog and everything is like, it's just chaotic. And for me, I was like, I need a morning. I need some support in the morning. And so I ended up bringing in some help to my. Into my home to help in the mornings. Help keep the clean the. The. The like, house more, you know, clean, whatever, so that I can just be with my son so that we can eat breakfast together, we can get him dressed, we can go out of the house. I don't. This. This. But that was a boundary for me. And. And again, it was. That doesn't sound like the typical boundary, maybe to some people, but for me it was because it was a boundary around my energy and around my time. And. And I have a lot of. I had. I had to like, really work through that. Like a lot of like, shame and a lot of like, well, should I even be spending money on this? Do I need this? Like, whatever. And as soon as I made that change, it was like all of a sudden I had so much more energy and everything else just started to like, click into place. And I feel like the more successful I become, the more boundaried I am. And. And it's like. I don't know how else to describe this other than little things affect me bigger now. Things that, like, didn't used to, but you just kind of get to this point that you. It's like this game of not settling for the things that are not making you happy.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, I think that's also like, you might get in the ego trap of like, I can't hire help because then I'm so diva or something. Right?

[Whitney Ueland]

Exactly, exactly.

[Courtney Johnson]

But actually being able to quell your ego and be like, I am going to humble myself and realize I need to. Need help.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

Is going to help me serve more people.

[Whitney Ueland]

Totally.

[Courtney Johnson]

And, like, when you focus out, that's when really the magic happens.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

Okay, one last question for you, Whitney. If somebody wants to build their resource of fame, is there a habit that you recommend them building into their lives? I think everything starts with our habits and our systems.

[Whitney Ueland]

It does. That's a great question. I mean, the easiest one is just post every day.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah. Literally.

[Whitney Ueland]

Yeah.

[Courtney Johnson]

Post every day.

[Whitney Ueland]

Post once a day. When I first started, I grew my audience to a hundred thousand. Posting three days a week. Once a day. Once, like, three times a week. And I set the app on my phone, the like, timer, the screen time thing, so that I could only be on the app for 15 minutes and I would. I didn't edit anything. Basically, I'm saying take away the excuses. So it was like, like I gave myself 15 minutes and I had that 15 minutes to record, edit, and post it. And when the timer was up, I was done and I hit post.

[Courtney Johnson]

Amazing.

[Whitney Ueland]

And that changed my whole life, you know, and again, swinging to boundaries. I think sometimes with social media, it's. I. I see people. Oh, well, I'm gonna start on Monday and I'm gonna do four posts a day, and I'm gonna, you know, whatever. No, just show up once a day on camera. You're gonna learn so much about yourself. You really are. You're going to find the what feels good, find what doesn't. And even if you're like, I don't want to be a social media person again, it's. It's more about unlocking parts of you that you have been afraid of being perceived in than it is about the post itself.

[Courtney Johnson]

And if you need help posting, come to Content Club. We meet every Single morning at 8am Central. I give you a prompt. We work on the prompt together. We have coaches to help you overcome fear being seen. And then we all click post together.

[Whitney Ueland]

I love that.

[Courtney Johnson]

It's so fun.

[Whitney Ueland]

Okay, so join that.

[Courtney Johnson]

Yeah, Join Content Club and there will be no excuses. Oh, what do I post today? It's in. It's in the prompt document. Anyways. Whitney, you are so amazing. This is incredible. As always, I'm literally gonna have you on my podcast every time I come to la and when you're in Austin, likewise. Yeah. Well, Whitney, how can people follow you and work with you?

[Whitney Ueland]

I'm on the socials@whitneyuland or how to be famous.org. how to be famous. Podcast. If you search how to be famous, you're gonna find me.

[Courtney Johnson]

My followers and listeners already know this because you're like number one episode every time. So, yeah, love it. Well, thank you, Whitney.

[Whitney Ueland]

Thank you.

[Courtney Johnson]

I do have an ask for you guys before we go. If this podcast has benefited you in any way, if you have gotten a tip that you've really loved and you've implemented it, if it's given you some sort of inspiration, if it's given you some sort of motivation or clarity, my ask is that you leave a five star review. I would appreciate it so much. It helps spread the message, it really helps the show grow, and it helps more people get access to this information. My deepest desire is un gatekeeping. Shit. I want to un gatekeep information. So anybody that desires to build a personal brand, to build a business, to create this success in their life and to live their dream, I want them to have all of the information. And I don't hold shop back on the show. Okay? We are not holding back. So in order to get this message to more people, in order to get these resources and tips to more people, your reviews go a long way. I appreciate you so much. Thank you.