← Built in Public
Built in Public
Un-Gatekeeping Healing Beyond the Norm: Slaying Stigmas with Psychedelics + Microdosing
01:01:06
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- [00:00]
Tiffany Heard
Foreign.
- [00:04]
Courtney Johnson
Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper.
- [00:06]
I'm your host, Courtney Johnson, and I.
- [00:08]
Am here to un. Gatekeep the gatekeep. Thank you so much for being here. Enjoy. Welcome, y' all. Welcome to Slay the Gatekeeper.
- [00:18]
Rachel Pastor
Yes. Thank you for having us.
- [00:19]
Tiffany Heard
Thanks. We're excited to be here.
- [00:21]
Courtney Johnson
Happy to have you. And I actually want to start our conversation with a Instagram post that our mutual friend Paul posted, and I wanted to get yalls take on it. And this Instagram post said, psychedelics aren't alternative medicine. Pharmaceuticals are alternative. Nature is the original blueprint. So good.
- [00:40]
Rachel Pastor
That is really good. Yeah. I mean, it's so true. This really is the original medicine. It's been used for eons long before we were even here. So, you know, it is so interesting how the perspective has really shifted in time, but the truth is, is that it is the original medicine. Yeah, he always puts out goodies.
- [01:02]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, he's got. He's got a great content strategy. So this podcast is all about un. Gatekeeping. And something that frustrates me is that there's a lot of gatekeeping around psychedelics and microdosing in general. 100% of the successful entrepreneurs that I am friends with either regularly microdose or have had a lot of plant medicine experience at least one or two major transformational plant medicine experiences. So 100% of these people I know are using this as a tool. 99% of them gatekeep it to the general public. They don't talk about it as their secret weapon. Why do you think it's gatekept?
- [01:41]
Rachel Pastor
Well, first of all, thank you for saying that, because I was literally speaking that yesterday. I was thinking of just multiple people that I know that have used the method.
- [01:49]
Courtney Johnson
Even if you look at history, like the most innovative scientists and entrepreneurs and builders and artists.
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Tiffany Heard
Yeah.
- [01:57]
Rachel Pastor
Well, I think there's shame around it. And I think that oftentimes people are worried about judgment. I can think of multiple, you know, heavy hitters that anybody here would know that are customers, and they've never, ever talked about it. And I, when I've talked to one of them about it, it's that they're worried about being canceled.
- [02:20]
Courtney Johnson
Wow.
- [02:21]
Tiffany Heard
I also think, you know, the stigma with society of where psychedelics have been and where we are today. There's been. It's mainstream. It's. It's trajected in such a beautiful, you know, direction, but there's been a lot of fear around you. Legalities and things along those lines where there is a lot of hesitancy of how public do I want to make this, or how often and how much do I want to share about my personal experience? And I think that has a lot to do with where it's been and the journey that we've arrived on. And I think there has been so much kind of unlocking, opening the gate and running through and sharing more because of all the. All the studies, all the research, all the amazing data that's out today that's backing the science of the impact and the benefits and the value of these medicines. So, yeah, there's so much that we can touch on with that.
- [03:09]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, it's crazy. I was listening to a celebrity gossip podcast today, which I love a good celebrity podcast now and then. It's like candy to me. And the brain food. Yeah, the host of this podcast is very, like, open and curious and, you know, anyways, she was saying, oh, this gossip. We found out that this celebrity one time dropped acid. Isn't that crazy? And I was like, wait, is that. Is that really crazy enough to, like, say as gossip? And then also, like, the fact that this person thinks that is a crazy thing to do. Like, that's like, the craziest gossip that they could find about this person. Like, ooh, this is scandalous. It is crazy that it is scandalous.
- [03:50]
Rachel Pastor
Well, it is. Like, even on the way here, I was talking to the Uber driver. I talked to everybody. I'm just like, you know, talking about psychedelics. What do you do working psychedelics? And then it opens the conversation. But there is so much of that. Like, almost when you start to talk to somebody about it, it's still, like, in a whisper. It's like, oh, my God, should I be talking about this? And even though there's so much more out there about this now, I feel like we're still so much at the beginning of it.
- [04:18]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I totally agree, but I love that you bring up, like, yeah, you have customers that are, you know, doing big things in the world. And same, like, I go to conferences, ceremonies, events, all of this. And I'm seeing these people that I would never name publicly for their privacy, but they're. They're doing big things. They're. They're impactful leaders in our world, for sure. Um, yeah. So when we were talking about discussing this topic, y' all are both entrepreneurs and you have strong business backgrounds, like, outside of the psychedelic world. Then came into the psychedelic world. And I think a lot of times psychedelic professionals can come across to normal folks as, like, very woo, woo. I think you guys are coming at this from a very grounded perspective. So how can other psychedelic professionals relate to those that really need it, that maybe haven't tried it without seeming, you know, out of their realm, without seeing too woo woo. Cause I've definitely seen professionals that have trouble relating to the matrix world and they can only relate in these like psychedelic circles. And I actually think that might be a problem if too many people can't relate to others.
- [05:32]
Rachel Pastor
Speaking my language, sister, seriously. And really that's what Golden Roll was created out of. It was created to bridge the gaps, to bridge the gap, to help any everyday people feel comfortable to try this beautiful medicine. And you know, for me, I'm a 41 year old mother living in the suburbs and I really was thinking through, you know, as we think of how to relate and how to speak to people about, about the medicine, I really think of it as like, you know, how can I help that other soccer mom feel very comfortable to try this? And it really is going about it in a way of more of like a supplement, wellness supplement. I think that's very easy for people to be able to open their minds to compared to a psychedelic, compared to even me. Calling it a medicine really in some ways does create a disconnect for people. So when you're able to speak to it more in a language even that is more connected to what people are used to, you're going to have a better opportunity of opening that door.
- [06:44]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah. I would also add that when we think of psychedelics and I think where a lot of the hesitancy or the shame that we're kind of speaking into can come from, it's thinking of it as like hippies and not that anything's wrong with that. We love hippies, we all embody that in our own ways. Ways. But that's been kind of the stigma around psychedelics. And now because of all the data and the research in the mainstream that we kind of spoke into, there's this whole opportunity for peak performance and innovative ideas to come forward through working with psychedelics or working with them in a way where it's therapeutic and it's holistic. And I think that is really grounding it in a lot of ways for people to be a lot more open and have these new perspectives around how they're working with them in these, in these specific ways.
- [07:27]
Rachel Pastor
And because we're not gatekeeping, I'm also going to share this, is that, you know, you have to think again. How does that other person think?
- [07:38]
Tiffany Heard
Right.
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Rachel Pastor
So when the brand looks really, really trippy, which I Totally get. Because I've had some amazing trips in that, you know, it's so colorful and different. You know, shapes and visions come through. And so I get why people make the branding in that way. But you have to think, like, that's weird to somebody who's never experienced that. And that creates a disconnect. So, again, not only in language, but in visual. How can you create something that makes people feel comfortable compared to in especially a space that people already feel a little uneasy about? You need to be able to make them feel safe in that space.
- [08:19]
Courtney Johnson
That's really smart. So it's the branding, it's the messaging. It's how we're approaching it. And of course, yeah, I know this is quite binary, but let's say we have, like, the hippies and the normies. There's. Yeah. In our branding and inner messaging, we're communicating with either of those audiences. And there's always going to be great resources and tools for the hippies. They got it. They got it under control.
- [08:39]
Tiffany Heard
They got the app, they got it under wraps.
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Courtney Johnson
Yes. But what we're. What I'm desiring is that more of our business leaders, economic leaders, political leaders can have these experiences and, you know, heal their shame, trauma, become more embodied and lead from. From the heart.
- [08:58]
Rachel Pastor
Absolutely. And, you know, our hope is that everybody has the opportunity to try this to, you know, in whatever way they need. Need it in their lives. And so, you know, I think to some people, they might think if you're bringing it down to the level of it's just a wellness supplement or, you know, and taking away the medicine part, and you're kind of taking away maybe some of its power and its beauty, and people have a hard time with that. But if you're able to switch your perspective and look, but what if you can open the door to so many more people, you know, that that's really what it's about. So just shifting perspective.
- [09:38]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. My top, most important core value is impact, having positive impact. And I always say, like, having the most amount of positive impact is the core value in my life that I would give up other values for. And one of the values I would give up for that is what you're saying. Like, I know that the messaging of medicine is really important, and I will talk about that in some circles, but I'm not going to talk about that to a client because I know that will immediately turn them away. So I care more about the positive impact, superseding being right or being, like, as honorable as I can.
- [10:11]
Rachel Pastor
Totally.
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Courtney Johnson
Okay, this Brings us into our first cheat code, which is microdosing for business leadership. So I'm curious, how can psychedelics impact leadership and business or maybe business success? And I will share. I've shared it on my podcast. Podcast a lot. But microdosing has helped me tremendously in my own business.
- [10:30]
Tiffany Heard
Such a good topic, microdosing in business. I just. It's so good. So what comes to mind initially is, is the science of how it's possible that it's. It's breaking open and allowing these new creative ideas and these new innovative ideas and problem solving and connection with your team and really claiming more of that power and openness within yourself, getting more present with yourself, but also being a better leader in your life, in your business. And so lot of that comes from, if we work obviously with psychedelics, if we work with microdosing as an example, the neuroplasticity that's happening in our brains. So it's creating new neural pathways, it's opening up current pathways for those to streamline more clearly. When our brains are in a more neuroplastic state, it's more plastic, it's more malleable, which allows us to be a lot more open and adaptive to making changes. So if you think of business and you think of new ideas or problem solving and you're working on a project and you know you have a plan and things are going well and you feel a little stuck or something wants to come unlocked or a new idea that can really accelerate that maybe hasn't found its way in, all of a sudden, these new pathways are creating these new perceptions of viewing it, where all of a sudden, now new things might be coming into the room. And so that's just one way. Obviously, it creates so much connection, it lowers fear responses. With the amygdala and the default mode network starting to get really quiet in the mind, that's a very anxiety fearful kind of driven response. And that's so productive when it comes to business and leadership and harmon things within a team dynamic.
- [12:04]
Rachel Pastor
Tiffany's our science gal. I'm the scientist, I'm the storyteller. So for me personally, it's just truly helped my leadership journey. And, you know, when I. One of my first entrepreneurial journeys was I started this. I used to have Colorado's largest fitness festival, and I rented out this whole stadium and all the streets around it and brought on this big team. And I still had so much growth to do in my own leadership. And what that really came down to was I needed more awareness, I needed More awareness of myself. And so really plant medicine was a huge impact in that for me because we went throughout that whole entire festival and it was amazing and so good. And I went to my team afterwards and I said, hey guys, let's go do this again. And every single one of them was like, no thanks. And it was just like this instant, this mirror, and it really brought me to all the places that I still needed to work on myself. And as I was working with plant medicine through my leadership journey, it's just brought me so much more empathy, so much more compassion and awareness in how I'm showing up in who I'm being in the world. And also understanding others on a deeper level, which is so important in leadership as well as just opening my mind in creative ways because so much of entrepreneurship is solving problems. So when you're able to open your mind and see things in so many more perspectives, you are able to succeed in much bigger ways.
- [13:43]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like I co sign on all of those benefits. It's helped me so much. And yeah, leadership, emotional intelligence, creativity, finding creative solutions that you would have never ever thought about before. It's wild. Okay, next cheat code is microdosing as a possible alternative to SSRIs. Tiffany, you got off Lexapro and Adderall through microdosing. I got off of Vyvanse through microdosing. Tell me about that journey.
- [14:12]
Tiffany Heard
Gosh, that's such a journey. So I was in the corporate world at the time. Business leadership, executive roles in the medical industry and high stress levels, anxiety, you pair that with childhood trauma and it all kind of comes together at once and kind of hits you in the face when things aren't going in a way that feels fulfilling essentially. So on both of those medications and I was doing the work, I was in personal development, I was in therapy. I'm very Type A Division 1 basketball background and am really self driven and was confused as to how I was feeling so unfulfilled when I was feeling challenged and you know, all the sorts of things in the career that I was in. While, you know, the personal development and the therapy was amazing. I knew that there was a part of me that just like wasn't accessing the depth of, depth of the patterns and the roots of like the thing that was holding it all together. And so I started to hear about psychedelics and this was, you know, over nine years ago where nothing was mainstream, There was nothing on the Internet really and did enough research and enough education to feel connected to it. And I had access to it, which is always really helpful, and put myself on a protocol. And within three months, I was like, you know what? I'm getting off these medications. I'm gonna go deeper into the. The root of what's creating this. And within three was off. And, you know, obviously, when we're taking medication, it suppresses so much of our authenticity, our truth, our emotions. And there was a part of me that was really shut down in that experience. And now all of a sudden, when that's removed, the medication is removed, and there's this beautiful medicine like microdosing that does the opposite and amplifies and brings things to the surface. All of a sudden, I'm starting to navigate and process a lot of those beautiful experiences that wanted to be seen, wanted to be heard, wanted to be felt, wanted to be. And so not only was that my experience, but I was like, you know what? I gotta really look at the career. That's, you know, the sole root of the lack of fulfillment of a big area in my life right now. And so I started to coach people with microdosing and obviously did a lot of education and trainings to arrive in that place, But I started with coaching people and teaching them how to microdose, how to work with the medicine, how to bring in modalities, how to optimize and really intentionally work with the practice that led into facilitation. Did that for about six years. And then I was like, you know what? I want to bring in my business background, Pair these together. And so all that, to say, it opened up this whole new path of me not only stepping into my purpose and my truth and, like, really owning what it's like to hear my own voice, but to also make one of the biggest changes in my life, my career, into something that was completely more fulfilling. And so it's. It's really opened up so much for me.
- [16:57]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, I love that you bring up fulfillment and career path because that's a common. Yeah, a very common thing that happens to people is they're like, oh, shit, I am not serving the people I want to serve. I'm not in the right career. I'm not doing what I actually feel aligned to do. And that can be scary. It can be scary to be, like.
- [17:16]
Tiffany Heard
A lot of pressure.
- [17:17]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. If I start microdosing, am I going to quit my whole career? And the truth is, maybe if that's.
- [17:25]
Tiffany Heard
The thing that wants to come through, it's possible.
- [17:27]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. That's beautiful. Yeah. I'm also curious, why did you guys both choose to create Businesses and coaching and stuff around microdosing rather than macro dosing or ceremonies. I don't think there's a lot of. At least I don't see a lot of microdosing support and help. I mean, I'm very plugged into the psychedelic community. I've maybe met five people that do it.
- [17:51]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah. And that was a part of why I started to work and teach people from a business perspective how to microdose. Because if I think back to my personal journey, I was like, where is this information and how do you do this and where do you start? And even beyond that, as I was deepening into the practice of having this great experience, there were still so many questions and lack of resources at the time that I was like, why don't I just bring this more to the space? And that was a part of it. And then, you know, obviously there's so many other things in the psychedelic world that now have all those resources, which is amazing. But with Golden Rules specifically, you know, also bringing in macrodosing. So starting with microdosing as a beautiful way of working with psychedelics, it's like the opening the door and coming out of the psychedelic closet and working with microdosing, usually what we find is that naturally starts to connect people obviously more deeply into themselves, but to have a desire to go more deeper into that experience, feel more open to go and work with the macrodose. And so that's what we also offer, you know, with Golden Rule is that support and at home experiences, not like heroic doses, but enough to go more deeper into, you know, some processing that might feel good for you. Yeah, yeah.
- [19:05]
Rachel Pastor
Microdosing is just a. It's just such an easier way for people to feel comfortable, to walk through the door. Yeah, I think it's just. And you can have profound changes just through microdosing. For a lot of people, I think that's what scares them is having those macro doses or tripping or you know, that they're gonna fill out of their body or out of sorts and they don't want that. So I think there's a better opportunity to have more people have the access through something like microdosing. For sure.
- [19:40]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think it's. Doing large doses is obviously intimidating, so it's much easier. And there's a lot of microdosing protocols and dosage doses that offer a sub perceptual experience where you're not actually feeling anything at all. Maybe you notice that you're more calm, you notice that you're more, you know, Creative. Just like, maybe you had a good workout or you did a good yoga class before you started work, and that's kind of the feeling. So I think that's important to communicate, too. You can do this without feeling anything at all. I'm sure people now are curious, too, about Golden Rule. Do you want to share a little bit about the origin and your mission?
- [20:19]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. So the origin really is from really creating that bridge. So really, you know, how do we help anybody and everybody access the medicine? And that's what I'm calling it. But I do know this wellness supplement. Like, how do we do that? And in through, you know, for both of us, we've both had our own transformations through using the supplement. And so it's been really that. It's like, how do we offer this to anybody and everybody? And, you know, at the surface level, it is a products company, but it is so much more than that. We. I have a hard time honestly saying it's a products company because it is helping people with, you know, yes, leadership and, you know, wellness, but also ptsd, ocd, anxiety, depression. I mean, we get emails from people every single day saying how it's just completely changed their lives. You know, maybe they were suicidal and now they're not, or they were on different medications that just made them feel numb, and now they're really experiencing life. And so, like, that's the drive. You know, the drive is for people to live a more elevated life in. In the most beautiful way and. And truly that is available to anybody and everybody.
- [21:55]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, absolutely.
- [21:56]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah. And I would say, you know, going off like, it's not just a product company. It's one thing to have a beautiful product, and this is with any business, depending on the type of business, but it's, especially when we're talking about psychedelics, is how to work with that product, how to optimize the way that it can accelerate and support you in reaching your goals, reaching your intentions, the things that you really desire in your life. And so so much of that is through, you know, running programs, running educational community calls, like, really informing people how to work with something that can really, you know, if we're talking about healing anxiety, alleviating ptsd, what that does for people's lives, that that changes them on that surface level. It changes their entire life when you can start to cultivate and develop a different relationship with something that's holding so much levity of the way that you live your life. And so that's, you know, golden rule. That's what we really stand On.
- [22:48]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah, the education part is huge. Yeah, yeah.
- [22:51]
Courtney Johnson
That's amazing. So not only do you have this product, but you're guiding people. You have education, you have resources. So they're not going in blindly. They feel supported. Yeah. What are some of the common protocols that people can do?
- [23:04]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah, so there's the og, the Fadiman protocol, which is microdosing every three days. You know, there's a lot of data and research backed on that, on that protocol. It's a great place for beginners. There's Paul Stamets protocol, which is psilocybin, niacin and lion's mane. Four days on, three days off. That one's phenomenal. A lot of data and research as well. You know, there's a lot of protocols that have like found their way into the market. There's like the workday protocol, there's the weekend protocol, and I love those. And I think they're amazing for a lot of people that, you know, like we're talking peak performers, innovators, leaders, CEOs, where you want to really like hone in on projects and be so much more dialed in and efficient with the work that you're doing throughout the week. Amazing. Four days on or five days on, two days off on the weekend. But a lot of it, what we find is with people that, you know, start to experience psychedelics is you just start to intuitively microdose, you start to learn, okay, how does, you know, psilocybin interact and impact me and what responses that create in my body compared to microdosing with lsd, what doses between those two create those different experiences for what I'm looking to achieve and experience that day. So so much of that comes with understanding how it's impacting you. And then you, you know, can select and choose. Okay, I have this specific thing that I'm looking to focus on this day. I know that this specific medicine and this dose usually creates that experience.
- [24:29]
Rachel Pastor
I would say anybody first starting out though, always do a protocol for at least 30 to 90 days, preferably 90 days. And it's really important to get in the routine and really important to get it in your body and get it working. And eventually, yes, you're right, people more start to go intuitively because your intuition is lit. You're just like, I know now.
- [24:53]
Tiffany Heard
Well, and it's the consistency, right. So many people going back to being sub perceptual, non intoxicating. So you're not tripping, you're not seeing trees that are moving with smiley faces. Hopefully not. You can drive a car, you can take your children to work, you can do all things life. But so many people especially that are new to microdosing will stop because they don't feel anything or they don't notice anything. The consistency is really where it is. Three to four times a week, 30 days minimum, 90 days maximum. And yeah, yeah, you know that feeling.
- [25:26]
Courtney Johnson
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- [28:56]
Yeah, I would definitely say my microdosing is very intuitive now, but the very first time I ever microdosed, it was with psilocybin. And I had done, like, journeys before, but this is the first time I microdose. And I took it and I'm like, just after, like, two hours, I'm like, I don't feel anything. This isn't working. And then I took more, and then I started crying over, like, how beautiful a blueberry was in my yogurt. And I'm like, I guess it's working. So, yeah, don't take too much. I wish I would have had a protocol when I started to ease into it rather than accidentally crying over blueberries for, like, three hours.
- [29:28]
Tiffany Heard
It served. It served. If that's what it took for you to know that this is not placebo, then congratulations.
- [29:35]
Courtney Johnson
What do you guys see as, like, the future of microdosing? Do you think this is something that maybe, like, a psychiatrist would prescribe you or a therapist or there's groups in support?
- [29:44]
Rachel Pastor
That's what's your dream for the future? Yeah, Well, I mean, that is definitely where it's going next. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. You know, right now in Colorado, we're seeing centers open up right and left because they're handing out their certificates. It's decriminalized. And so it's really in that therapeutic realm. And. And yeah, therapists also in Colorado will be able to. Oh, there's. There's other places as well. We're seeing that change every single day. Oh, my gosh. But, yeah, that's where it's going first. I think it'll be a long time before you're before it's like, you know, before it's like a weed dispensary for the counter. Yeah, yeah, I think it'll be a waste.
- [30:30]
Tiffany Heard
I do think it's, it's definitely already here and on its way and we'll continue to track forward of being, you know, the holistic alternative to pharmaceutical medication. I think there's been so much data and research and visibility and awareness and people's experiences being shared of even mine of tapering off medication and this being not only an alternative to tapering off SSRI or SNRM medication, but also a holistic route to even getting on them. And that makes me so happy and excited for the future of that being the possibility because so much of our population and society think that that is the only way to heal anxiety, depression, adhd, et cetera, or even, you know, high stress levels and things like that. When you're working at a career that is just so fast paced, for example, to have an option of something that's natural, that's holistic, that is not addictive and has these incredible benefits for the brain and the body. It's, it's like, come on, it's a no brainer. And I think that that's, that's here and it's going to stay and it's just going to continue to progress.
- [31:36]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. Well, my hope is that you will just be able to walk into the store and buy it like a wellness supplement because ultimately, especially at a microdosing level, it is.
- [31:44]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [31:45]
Rachel Pastor
So, you know, it seems silly, you can't. But that is my hope is that you will just be able to buy it like any other wellness supplement right there at, I don't know, Whole Foods.
- [31:57]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that would be really awesome. I see that in the future. Like it, the, the amazing thing about psychedelics and plant medicine is it's very, very hard to abuse them. And I know that's what comes up. It's like, oh, these are drugs. We don't want people abusing them. You try abusing psilocybin, see what happens to you.
- [32:16]
Tiffany Heard
Psilocybin will abuse you.
- [32:17]
Courtney Johnson
It will abuse you.
- [32:18]
Rachel Pastor
You don't want to.
- [32:19]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, you don't want to. Like every time I hear people say that, I'm like, I want to see you try. I want to try. I want to see you get addicted to heroic doses of psilocybin. You can't. It'll knock you out.
- [32:31]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's actually scientifically proven that it is non physically addictive, which is amazing. So.
- [32:37]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that's super awesome. Yeah. Okay, next cheat code. Ooh, Rachel. Nlp. I want to know about how you use NLP as a cheat code in your business and your life with your clients.
- [32:51]
Rachel Pastor
Well, I became a master of neuro linguistic programming because I became obsessed with how the brain works. I went to. I remember I went to my very first Joe Dispenza retreat week long, and it just led me down this whole entire path. So I got super into nlp and essentially what that is is you will have. You have all these filters in your brain, like folders, and we store information in them in different ways through sight, sound, tape, you know, and they're all stored in there in memories, habits, behaviors, beliefs. And so how I really worked with that with my clients when I had clients in the past, that's not the case anymore, has been of really helping them rearrange those folders and pull different folders out. Oddly, and not oddly at all, is that psychedelics work very similarly. And so they work beautifully together. In fact, I know a lot of people who are working with people with psychedelics. They are in nlp, they'll be masters of neuro linguistic programming because when the brain is in that neuroplastic state, you are able to move those folders around very easily in a lot easier way. But before psychedelics were really the path for me, it really was. And this is what I do for my own life. And how I utilize it is me really utilizing it in meditation. So really going into a deep meditation and rewiring and reprogramming an experience that essentially will create the outcome of whatever I'm looking for. So, yeah, that's how I use it.
- [34:46]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. You had a post that said most things you believe are just made up stories. Tell me about that.
- [34:53]
Rachel Pastor
That. Well, that's true. I mean, actually, I was listening, man. I can't remember who actually was on this podcast, but just essentially that everything that we remember isn't even true. And so, you know, we place these memories in our brain and they just are a formulation of one perspective, which is so interesting because right now you're having your own perspective and your own experience, and you're having your own perspective and your own experience, and I am too. And so, you know, a lot of what we program in our brains or what our memories are essentially are just that. They're not. They're. They're just one perspective of infinite possibilities. Yeah.
- [35:48]
Courtney Johnson
Wow, that's so powerful. Yeah. For the listeners, if you haven't heard of nlp, it's a really amazing tool. I've had a few, like, NLP coaches, but my boyfriend ordered an NLP book as he was learning it. I opened it and the first page, this is how powerful this is. Like, I've seen firsthand how powerful it is because I've used it in my own life. But I opened the first page of this book and it's like, warning, do not use. Like, by buying this book, you are consenting to not use this for evil or for marketing or for sales or for dating or for blah blah, blah. Like, that is what you're agreeing to if going to read this book. And I'm just like, wow, that is such a powerful tool that this author had to leave a disclaimer of like, please do not use this because it is so fucking powerful.
- [36:30]
Tiffany Heard
Wow.
- [36:31]
Rachel Pastor
Wow, that is so true. And you know, a good example of this is Tony Robbins. He uses NLP all the time. And I really believe he's using it for the good. But he, during his conferences, is constantly programming you through everything that he does, through the words that he says, through the sounds that he does, through how he has you move your body and constantly programming you in. You know, you can program somebody into an experience just through using a sound and they may not even realize what's happening.
- [37:08]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [37:08]
Tiffany Heard
So fascinating.
- [37:09]
Rachel Pastor
So yeah. That's wild.
- [37:11]
Courtney Johnson
I love that. I love the sneaky shit. I have this course, I do this every quarter and it's like a live cohort based course about LinkedIn and. Nice, right? You're like, oh, boring. That's just like a LinkedIn class. I'm going to learn how to optimize your profile. No, it's all about the fear of being seen. And I help people overcome the fear of being seen. But like, they don't really know that until after they've gone through. And then they're like, wait, why am I crying? Why do I have this? I'm totally questioning my entire career path. And I'm like, ha ha, ha ha. Yes, yes. And I bring in like other modalities, like other subconscious reprogramming into this, this course. But it's just really funny because yeah, some I think if I were to position it as woo woo, people wouldn't do it because this is all like corporate sales folks or like founders or whatever. But when they're there, they're like, wow, I didn't expect like I had someone being like, I didn't expect this giant emotional release and identity crisis after like hour one. And I'm like, ha ha ha. I'm doing that intentionally.
- [38:09]
Tiffany Heard
Like, if I told you, then the fear of being seen, would you be through. Fear of being seen.
- [38:13]
Rachel Pastor
Well, people. Yeah. Show up just out of the fear of change.
- [38:17]
Tiffany Heard
I love that for you.
- [38:18]
Courtney Johnson
Exactly. Anyways, I just. I think that's so fun. It's like seducing people for good.
- [38:24]
Rachel Pastor
Yes, exactly. And I love how you just did that with your hands.
- [38:27]
Tiffany Heard
It's like, I just felt seduced.
- [38:31]
Courtney Johnson
Love it. Okay. Another cheat code that I found on your Instagram. Rachel was reframing.
- [38:36]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. So reframing is just. It's very simple in that it's just a perspective shift. So, you know, I am helping my daughter, who's 12 years old, constantly reframe all day long.
- [38:49]
Courtney Johnson
What's an example?
- [38:50]
Rachel Pastor
So, you know, my life sucks. I just laugh because, you know, if you have a preteen, you'll totally know that. That. Yes. Is constant. My. You know, my life sucks. It's so horrible to stay. This is the worst day of my life. This is the worst day of my life. Okay, let's talk about that. And really, it's creating that perspective shift in what was great today. Right. And helping her see it in a different way in a different perspective. And reframing the phrase, this was the worst day of my life. Right. How do you shift that? Even just that phrase. But really, it comes from first helping people see it from a different perspective. Yeah. I'm trying to think of a really good one. Like, how to. Shifting the. The phrase to another phrase.
- [39:54]
Courtney Johnson
Let's all come up with one. Yeah, let's think about one.
- [39:59]
Tiffany Heard
A lot of it could be, like, affirmation work, too.
- [40:01]
Courtney Johnson
Oh, I feel like one is I need to versus I get to. Yes.
- [40:04]
Tiffany Heard
Or I have to. I get to. Yeah. Or like, not like a either or, but a. Both end.
- [40:11]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [40:12]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah.
- [40:13]
Courtney Johnson
Also should. Eliminating should from your vocabulary. Big game changer.
- [40:18]
Rachel Pastor
She's throwing it down right now. These are really good reframes. So it's like, it's truly super simple. But it's. It's all in the way that we say things. Really can change your whole entire life in so many aspects. Because, you know, if you're constantly saying, I have to go to work, I get to go to work. Whoa. Like, the gratitude in that and the excitement in that. From I have to. To I get to. That is like.
- [40:47]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah.
- [40:48]
Rachel Pastor
So good.
- [40:49]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. So powerful.
- [40:50]
Rachel Pastor
So powerful. Yes.
- [40:52]
Courtney Johnson
Have you guys read Existential Kink?
- [40:55]
Tiffany Heard
I've heard about it, but I have not. I've heard great things about that, actually.
- [41:00]
Courtney Johnson
I. Yeah, I was On a road trip last week with some girlfriends, and we listened to it on audiobook. It was my second time reading it, and I haven't read it in a few years. But something that stood out was it talked about nlp and it was like, yeah, let's say I'm like, this is the worst day ever. There's almost, like, some part of us that kind of, like, feels a lot of comfort and, like, kind of loves feeling, like, pouty and, like. Like, it feels really comfortable. So it was saying that next time you feel like, oh, this is the worst day ever, I suck. Everything sucks. Start to, like, enjoy the, like, that you're feeling bad and be like, ooh, this is fun. Like, I'm like, a pouty girl. And then imagine cheerleader elephants jumping up and down and being like, yay, you noticed it. You noticed it. And just try to notice when you, like, feel good about being grumpy or negative, and then it becomes a lot easier to then correct it because you've clocked that, like, oh, this is kind of kinky that I feel good about it anyway. So that's been something I've been working on.
- [41:54]
Rachel Pastor
I'm going to use that with my daughter. That was so good.
- [41:58]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that's really good.
- [41:59]
Rachel Pastor
You're an NLP master over there.
- [42:02]
Courtney Johnson
I would love to, like, actually learn or take a class or learn from.
- [42:06]
Rachel Pastor
Someone because, well, you sound like, you know a lot.
- [42:10]
Courtney Johnson
I just like words. I'm a writer.
- [42:12]
Rachel Pastor
Okay.
- [42:12]
Courtney Johnson
I see the power of words.
- [42:14]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah.
- [42:14]
Courtney Johnson
They are so powerful.
- [42:16]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. And that is a huge part of nlp for sure.
- [42:19]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. Okay. My last cheat code also comes from Rachel. Is this idea of peaceful profits. Can you explain a little bit about. About this and how you can be calm and embodied and, you know, in flow? Because I think a story that a lot of people have, if they want to follow their dream or be an entrepreneur or artist or whatever, they have to work harder and be more intense and crazier and more busy.
- [42:45]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. So a lot of that's come for me just around learning how to be in the power of. Of just being in that. Yeah. I was so addicted to really feeling like the only way I could be successful is exactly what you just said is, like, going hard all the time. But what I found is, is that the quieter I've gotten, actually, the further it's taken me. And oftentimes when you push harder, I mean, you're not allowing life to unfold in so many ways, and when you allow yourself to sit and surrender and fully Trust that you are being guided. And I can't amplify the word surrender enough because there's this control thing. When we're trying to. When we're pushing, we're pushing, we're pushing. All that is, is control and it's fear. And so when you can step away from that control and that fear and really step into a place of trust and surrender and allowing yourself to actually hear yourself speak, to actually hear what's going on in yourself, you're going to have much more powerful ways of, you know, overcoming whatever obstacles in front of you instead of, you know, allow the obstacle to unfold and allow yourself to see exactly how to get through it instead of running up to that obstacle and just going and constantly falling and being pushed back and trying to go at it again. Right. So it's just a. It's just a different way of creating profits in your life, but I believe a much more peaceful way. And I think that even sometimes people maybe just hearing me say that right now, they might find, if you found resistance to that in some way. It's ultimately, there's something in there that has been programmed so deeply that it's only done this one way. Right. But the truth is, is that there's infinite ways.
- [45:07]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, that's amazing. I think we need more leaders that are leading from that place of, like, calm flow, embodiment. And I feel like, especially for women, if we. If you're pushing, pushing, pushing, you're like in the penetrative masculine energy. And it can really. It like, you can almost like white knuckle it if you're a dude. If you're a woman, it's gonna. It's gonna be the opposite. It's. You're gonna burn yourself out. And I think that's. Yeah. I stopped taking productivity advice from men because it is different.
- [45:41]
Rachel Pastor
It is, it is. And I think a lot of us are stepping deeper back into our feminine energy, which I think for many who has been more in this masculine energy, because I totally have. I mean, the transition into being more feminine has been at times, extremely uncomfortable for me. It really has been a transformation because so much of it has been programmed into, like, it's only done this way. And this is the only way I'm going to be successful or, you know, I can only show up in this way. And as I've changed and switched and embodied more of my feminine, it's also created more of an identity shift for me, which we all know is super uncomfortable for anybody.
- [46:27]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah.
- [46:27]
Courtney Johnson
What do you think was the catalyst for that.
- [46:30]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. So it really was me as a mother. I truly missed the first half of my kids lives because I was so busy running multiple businesses and chasing, you know, in my head I'm like, I'm doing this for my family, you know, I gotta push harder, I gotta go harder. And I would work super duper late into the evening and, you know, wake up. I just missed so much. I missed so much. And every single night I'd go to bed. My number one regret for the day was that I didn't spend enough time with my kids. And I was just in this cycle though. Then I'd wake up in the morning and I do the same thing over again. And then I go to bed and I feel regret. And I actually went and I did a ceremony, sat with plant medicine, a large dose. And in that I really, I really felt my kids. I felt, I felt their pain. Like I really felt all that I was missing out on. And I saw myself constantly living in this, this cycle. And so it really showed me that the only way for me to shift that, the only way for me to experience something different is I had to remove myself from like, I had to embody this beautiful feminine energy. And it, it wasn't like I walked out of that, that ceremony and it was like the next day I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm done. You know, it really was me constantly being in awareness of what this feminine energy really was and really stepping into an embodiment of it and in how I live my every single day life. And so that was, I just share that because that for me personally was the wake up moment. But it was learning it over time how to embody more of this feminine energy. It took me a while to actually do that.
- [48:41]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah, my experience was not easy too. It was like I knew, I don't know, I had some just like something come over me and I'm like, I need to work with like a feminine embodiment coach, learn about feminine energies. And I was so resistant to it. I would like fuck this every day. I'm not doing it. And then I'm like, I'm just gonna try this for like 2 months to see what happens. And then my business blew up and everything. Everything was amazing. Yeah, it's. It's crazy. I just, I would, I, I want to see a future where there's more like feminine leaders. Like there's more female leaders that are coming from embodied feminine perspective rather than right now. A lot of the female leaders are just Like. Like mimicking the men, dressing like the men, talking like the men, like, just copying the men's processes, whatever. Like, I just really want to see more examples of that. Tiffany had you have you had an experience of feminine embodiment or masculine feminine energies?
- [49:36]
Tiffany Heard
I have, yes. I'm just sitting here, like, thinking of all these different experiences. And I did a lot of John Wineland work. A lot of people love his work. A lot of people have their own opinions with his work, but a lot of it was helping me get more into my feminine and such as what all of you are sharing. So uncomfortable, but so expansive and so opening. And I also was working with ayahuasca a lot. And. And that's a grandmother plant medicine, intelligence. And that medicine really opened me up to my feminine in a lot of ways of softening and opening and playing and allowing my body to, like, move in these ways that felt so rigid and so stuck and so. So masculine, you know, and when I really was able to unpack, like, what is that all about? For me, it's childhood safety mechanisms, you know, growing up, needing things to be a certain way, taking responsible responsibility at a young age. And so all those masculine archetypes, so to speak, just carried with me into my life. Even Division 1 basketball. Masculine, very masculine. And so, quite honestly, working with psychedelics has really allowed me to tap more deeply into. Into my feminine in so many ways, even if you look at my background in the corporate world. So masculine. Go, go, go. Very male dominant. Never stop. Always just the next thing. What's next? What's next? And not even really having a time to really acknowledge the feminine essence in me of, what does she want? Want? Who is she? What does she desire? And so a lot of that work coming all together was really even just simplifying it to the fact of asking myself those questions, what do you desire? What do you need? And a lot of that came through sexual expression for me, where there was always a. There was a lot of shame for me sexually, and I never understood where that came from. And we can bring in sexual trauma, and of course that. That's a part of it, but I'm like, why is this shame? I'm so comfortable with this person. Like, what is this shame really about? And a lot of it was me not understanding how to one tap into even asking myself what I want. What. What do I need? What do I like, what do I desire? And so that was hard for me to ask those questions. It was so hard to come up with the answers of what was True. And so the more that I leaned into that, as uncomfortable as it was, it changed my life. Like, everything changed. Everything changed. Yeah.
- [52:14]
Courtney Johnson
So beautiful.
- [52:15]
Tiffany Heard
And it's a practice, like, constantly coming back to it because we can easily get stuck in that other path. It's like, hold on a second. Let's go back to that thing.
- [52:22]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. It's so good. It's so expansive. It's like creation energy. It's creation powerful energy in the universe.
- [52:29]
Tiffany Heard
Like your feminine power. Like. Like creating. Like, I always thought creating from, like, the masculine portal was, like, the thing that was it. That's what I learned. That's what I knew. But what I create from, like, feminine soft power essence. It is so potent and so clear and so felt. Yeah.
- [52:49]
Courtney Johnson
So amazing.
- [52:50]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah.
- [52:50]
Courtney Johnson
My. My disclaimer for all the listeners. I say this every time we talk about feminine and masculine energies on the podcast because I think it's important to state, doesn't matter your gender expression. We all have feminine and masculine energies. You can play with them, lean into whatever you want. I think what we're talking about is a lot of times the feminine energy has been pushed down in our society. We have so much masculine energy, and there's so much power in the feminine energy. And I think a lot of people say, like, well, that's misogynistic, or that's not feminist. It's like, girl, what's not. What's misogynistic is the fact that we are, as women, rewarded for our masculine energies, and our inherent feminine traits are seen as lesser than, are suppressed. And that's really where a lot of our power comes from. So you can learn to tap into that power and play with that energy and power, even if it's uncomfortable. Like, there is so much power there. Life changing. Okay, I have one more question for y' all. I'm very curious. What is the target audience for Golden Rule? And are there any, like, pockets or cultures that you see microdosing really take off in? Like, I think we've seen it in the Tech Cold Plunge Bros. We see it pretty much everywhere in Austin. But is there, like, is it up and coming with moms or older people or. Yeah. What. What are you seeing as far as audiences or groups?
- [54:10]
Rachel Pastor
I would say the age range we mostly see is, like 30 to 50. Really decent split in men and women. And then. Oh, man. People of all walks of life. Oh, my goodness.
- [54:25]
Tiffany Heard
The mom, the CEO.
- [54:27]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, all of it. A lot of moms, definitely. That's. I really feel, like, created a big curiosity there. But, gosh, I just think about everybody, and it truly is such different, really. There's just not one area.
- [54:49]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah, well. And there's so many different ways to work with it. Right. It's like there's the therapeutic component, and that's reached so many therapeutic components of, you know, ptsd, addiction, anxiety, depression, things along those lines. And then you have this whole, like, optimized peak performance that brings in a completely different audience at times. Leaders, CEOs, innovators, people in the wellness space. So it's really beautiful to see how there's these different ways of working with it. And I think that the way that we educate and teach and just the products that we have really are intended to reach all walks of life, depending on how you specifically want to work with it, what medicine and how you want to work with it and what you want to experience and receive. Yeah.
- [55:35]
Courtney Johnson
Amazing. Is there any audiences you want to work more with? You'd be, like, really excited if they come to you.
- [55:42]
Tiffany Heard
That's a good question. I don't know. I think I would like to see probably more leaders coming into our space. I would like to see more of that because. Because we're all leaders.
- [55:52]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah.
- [55:53]
Rachel Pastor
Right.
- [55:53]
Tiffany Heard
So I say that very lightly. We are all leaders. It's just, how ready are you to access that. That part of you? So whether you're looking to access that part of you or you're, you know, a leader in a company, you're a leader in your family, you're a leader in your friendships, and you want to just elevate that part of you. I would love to. To see more of that come in.
- [56:15]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah, I personally would love to see. So, yes, amen. And I would love to see more police officers, firefighters, military. My husband.
- [56:28]
Tiffany Heard
Politics, politicians.
- [56:30]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah, My husband is ex military. Six years army, infantry, and then 10 years police.
- [56:37]
Courtney Johnson
Wow.
- [56:38]
Rachel Pastor
And so he left a few years ago, but, you know, we're very deeply connected into that space, and it. It's just so needed, you know, And I think there's a lot more PTSD there than even people working those positions would like to admit. And I really think that also, it could create so much more empathy and compassion in that space. And so, I mean, I'm reaching for the stars.
- [57:14]
Courtney Johnson
I literally just got goosebumps. Yeah. First of all, our first responder is, like, the trauma they see. Oh, my God. I can't imagine. My partner is a surgeon, but he did his residency in trauma surgery in North Philly. And just, like, the stories of, like, the gunshots in the ER and the kids coming in like dying, they can't even imagine.
- [57:34]
Rachel Pastor
So firefighters.
- [57:36]
Courtney Johnson
Firefighters, police.
- [57:37]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. Firefighters have one of the highest suicide rates that there are.
- [57:41]
Courtney Johnson
Really? Oh, my God.
- [57:43]
Rachel Pastor
Yeah. Because they're oftentimes the first on the scene and. Yeah, they do. So there is a lot of work to be done there.
- [57:51]
Courtney Johnson
Yeah. I want to get this in the hands of our first responders. That's amazing that your partner has a. Yeah, I'm sure is well connected and being such a leader in this too.
- [58:01]
Tiffany Heard
Even in the medical space. Right. If I think to the medical field that I was in and even what you just shared is those that are prescribing medication to their patients, having this, you know, be something that they work with so that they have the mind shift of an alternative. Although that's what they were trained in to prescribe in this specific way. But now they have this other option to include that alone could be so healing for so many people.
- [58:25]
Courtney Johnson
That would be so amazing. It's happening slowly. It is, I think. So I'm seeing like prescribing of cannabis instead of opiates a lot now for pain and like, I think that's a good first step. Yeah, it is beautiful. Well, what's next for Golden World? Do you guys have any exciting new things coming up? Maybe some exciting containers you're hosting? Any goals? What's. What's next for y' all?
- [58:53]
Rachel Pastor
Well, we did just launch a blueprint and so it's beautiful. Tiffany right here. And it's 51 videos. They're short videos and it really walks people through the whole microdosing and macrodosing journey. And so I really think that, that, you know that you can get that anytime, but it is pretty new to Golden Rule and just if you're a beginner, that is a great way to go to learn. We do run a 30 day microdosing experience. And so, you know, bringing people in and really if you want to have your handheld through the experience, it is the best way to go about it. We only run that a couple times a year and then, you know, just continuing to get out there and you know, if you email us, we're getting back to you and we're going to help you. And oftentimes it's again, amazing. Tiffany right here, she's just so educated and helps so many people through whatever their need is. And so, you know, and then continuing to be innovative in the space.
- [60:01]
Courtney Johnson
That's amazing. Yeah. Well, how can people find each of you and then how can people find Golden Rule?
- [60:07]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah. So personal Instagram. I am Tiffany Heard. What is yours?
- [60:12]
Rachel Pastor
Rachel Pastor.
- [60:13]
Tiffany Heard
We should have this part down by now.
- [60:14]
Courtney Johnson
Sometimes we do.
- [60:16]
Tiffany Heard
Yeah. Website is goldenrule mushrooms.com Instagram handles Golden RuleMicrodose and then Golden Rule Mushrooms and then our email customer service. Email hellooldenrulemushrooms.com beautiful.
- [60:29]
Courtney Johnson
So that's the best place to go for any questions. Absolutely amazing. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on. This is so great.
- [60:35]
Rachel Pastor
Thank you for having us. You have great questions.
- [60:38]
Courtney Johnson
Thank you. I hope you guys enjoy Austin.
- [60:39]
Tiffany Heard
Thanks so much.
- [60:40]
Rachel Pastor
Yay.
- [60:41]
Courtney Johnson
This is amazing.
- [60:42]
Okay, y' all, if you like this.
- [60:44]
Episode, you would love, love my Patreon. Okay? You get exclusive access to me, exclusive content, tons of other resources, and a lot of juicy shit, okay? So I hope to see you on my Patreon.